Really hope next savage tier is delayed.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Why are so many people dogpiling on someone who wants to be able to enjoy both the story and the raids? You shouldn't need to sacrifice one for the other.

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You don't need to sacrifice now. Enjoy both.

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Originally Posted by linayar

You don't need to sacrifice now. Enjoy both.

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Bull. If you want a week one clear you have to sacrifice story.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Bull. If you want a week one clear you have to sacrifice story.

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Why? You have a whole week. It takes an hour or two to enjoy the story for normal raid. You don't have to do the MSQ before the raid. You don't have to get any trial weapon that may or may not be gated behind some MSQ.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Why? You have a whole week. It takes an hour or two to enjoy the story for normal raid. You don't have to do the MSQ before the raid. You don't have to get any trial weapon that may or may not be gated behind some MSQ.

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Let me tell you why. You spend a good portion of day one gathering and crafting gear for savage and melding it out, then do normal mode. If you've got a group you might be making stuff for more than one person. If you're organized you might get into savage that same day, if not then day 2.

Day 2-7 is spent only doing the content until you clear it. If you are in pf it's a hell of a thing. Unless you are in a world first group it's also a hell of a thing.

Now explain to people where they are supposed to find 5 hours ish to do msq in that time frame on week 1? Not even factoring in people who work.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Now explain to people where they are supposed to find 5 hours ish to do msq in that time frame on week 1? Not even factoring in people who work.

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The next week.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The next week.

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Exactly so you sacrificed enjoying the story on release to do savage. Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Exactly so you sacrificed enjoying the story on release to do savage. Thanks for proving my point.

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You didn't sacrifice it though, you simply chose one or the other. The story is still there to do. I would know, I've done that. Just stay off twitter/reddit/the forums, and you dont get spoiled.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Exactly so you sacrificed enjoying the story on release to do savage. Thanks for proving my point.

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If you think delaying MSQ is a sacrifice, then why ask for a delay in Savage? So you're still sacrificing one for the other and your point is meaningless. On the other hand, plenty of people manage to do both story and Savage week 1. So no delay is the best way if you don't want to sacrifice anything.

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Originally Posted by linayar

If you think delaying MSQ is a sacrifice. Then why ask for a delay in Savage? So you're still sacrificing one for the other. On the other hand, plenty of people manage to do both story and Savage week 1. So no delay is the best way if you don't want to sacrifice anything.

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But here is where you are wrong. Believe it or not people who raid also would really like to enjoy the new story on release so they can talk about it with thier friends and not be spoiled.

If savage is delayed a week you dont need to make that choice. Everyone is on an equal playing field.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

But here is where you are wrong. Believe it or not people who raid also would really like to enjoy the new story on release so they can talk about it with thier friends and not be spoiled.

If savage is delayed a week you dont need to make that choice. Everyone is on an equal playing field.

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But everyone is not on equal footing because not everyone has the same schedule. Delaying Savage means there'll be people who will be inconvenienced because they have time off the week the patch is released, but now they have to set another time the week Savage is released.

If you don't want to get spoiled, then just be mindful. Tell your friends where your priority is and then do MSQ when you can. You can still talk to your friends about it afterward.

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Originally Posted by linayar

But everyone is not on equal footing because not everyone has the same schedule. Delaying Savage means there'll be people who will be inconvenienced because they have time off the week the patch is released, but now they have to set another time the week Savage is released.

If you don't want to get spoiled, then just be mindful. Tell your friends where your priority is and then do MSQ when you can. You can still talk to your friends about it afterward.

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If they start delaying savage by one week people will be able to plan for it. Moot point.

And it's not only a matter of not getting spoiled. Here are some of your friends chatting it up about the msq that you cant participate with. People enjoy talking about new things. It feels awful to not be able to enjoy it with them.

Also you have to remember the only people this affects is people who raid and many of them are the ones asking for it. It's not like people who are doing the msq only are asking for savage to be delayed. It's the people doing the actual content that are asking for it.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

If they start delaying savage by one week people will be able to plan for it. Moot point.

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And you can plan things now. Set realistic plans for what you want to do and what you're able to do.

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And it's not only a matter of not getting spoiled. Here are some of your friends chatting it up about the msq that you cant participate with. People enjoy talking about new things. It feels awful to not be able to enjoy it with them.

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Don't worry, you'll be too busy having fun (or be in hell) progging the first week. So busy, that you can't find time for 5 hours in a week to do MSQ.

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Also you have to remember the only people this affects is people who raid and many of them are the ones asking for it. It's not like people who are doing the msq only are asking for savage to be delayed. It's the people doing the actual content that are asking for it.

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Irrelevant, because this change affects more than raiders. And different raiders can also want different things. The sooner Savage is released, the more time people have to practice, clear, get loot, etc.

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Originally Posted by linayar

And you can plan things now. Set realistic plans for what you want to do and what you're able to do.

Don't worry, you'll be too busy having fun (or be in hell) progging the first week. So busy, that you can't find time for 5 hours in a week to do MSQ.

Irrelevant, because this change affects more than raiders. And different raiders can also want different things. The sooner Savage is released, the more time people have to practice, clear, get loot, etc.

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Who does it affect other than raiders?
Crafters/Gatherers? Oh wait they can just wait a week like all the people who choose to do savage can now.

Do you even try to do week 1 clears because it sounds like you don't?

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Who does it affect other than raiders?
Crafters/Gatherers? Oh wait they can just wait a week like all the people who choose to do savage can now.

Do you even try to do week 1 clears because it sounds like you don't?

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People who want new gears. People who want to make new things to use/sell.

People can wait, but so can you if you don't have time in week 1 to do everything you want to do.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Source?

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Well, there's the fact that this has literally never been a debate until now when someone who doesn't even raid decided to post this thread.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Do you even try to do week 1 clears because it sounds like you don't?

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Most likely not but I wouldn't try to convince them, can't really debate with someone about this that doesn't really raid at all/or has only cleared the first fight of a tier and probably by the time where you're probably already decked out in full tome gear or higher.

They have a right to give their opinion but it will always be lesser than the people that actually do this type of content.
It'll be like me throwing out opinions about crafters when I don't even craft.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

They have a right to give their opinion but it will always be lesser than the people that actually do this type of content.

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That's only if what I say requires me to do that type of content, which is not true. If I'm telling you how to heal in Savage, but I don't do Savage, then you'd have a point. But I don't need to do Savage to tell you that Savage isn't going anywhere once released. The pressure that you have is self-inflicted, and not caused by the game. I don't think FFXIV even has any achievement for clearing Savage first or among the first, not even an achievement for clearing during the tier it's released.

And, as has been said, it affects more than Savage raiders, so it's also a moot point saying non-Savage raider's opinion is "lesser" as if that means anything.

There are even Savage raiders who don't want it delayed, so even there, your comment becomes even more pointless.

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Originally Posted by linayar

That's only if what I say requires me to do that type of content, which is not true. If I'm telling you how to heal in Savage, but I don't do Savage, then you'd have a point. But I don't need to do Savage to tell you that Savage isn't going anywhere once release. The pressure that you have is self-inflicted, and not caused the game.

And, as has been said, it affects more than Savage raiders, so it's also a moot point saying non-Savage raider's opinion is "lesser" as if that means anything.

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I'm talking about getting ready for week 1 prog not savage itself, probably should have made that more clear...though...you also don't do savage or rather the only first floor so my point stands no matter how you take it actually, unless you can prove me wrong that you cleared more floors? I'll gladly take that L and shut up.
It's not a moot point either because its true. You don't do savage or like...only the first fight because you're not good enough to do the other ones, your opinions are lesser. You don't have to worry about preparation because you don't week 1 prog or WR.

So again, your opinions are lesser than actual raider that do raid.
And how does it affect crafting? they don't have to push back to mats that come with the patch. The mats are bought with the previous tier tomes, they can still uncap it. Its not like they have some rule or can't change it.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

I'm talking about getting ready for week 1 prog not savage itself, probably should have made that more clear...though...you also don't do savage or rather the only first floor so my point stands no matter how you take it actually, unless you can prove me wrong that you cleared more floors? I'll gladly take that L and shut up.
It's not a moot point either because its true. You don't do savage or like...only the first fight because you're not good enough to do the other ones, your opinions are lesser. You don't have to worry about preparation because you don't week 1 prog or WR.

So again, your opinions are lesser than actual raider that do raid.

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No, because I said that it affects non-Savage raiders, which is true. So, how is it lesser of an opinion? If, by lesser, you mean you don't care about it, then I could also not care about your opinion. Does that make your opinion lesser now too?

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And how does it affect crafting? they don't have to push back to mats that come with the patch. The mats are bought with the current tier tomes, they can still uncap it. Its not like they have some rule or can't change it.

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The current tier tomes are brought along with Savage, and I don't think they would change that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yeah, previous tomes. Which dont get uncapped until new tomes release, which dont come out until savage releases.

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Yeah and they can uncap it when 5.4 hits. There is no reason not too since the ilv goes up.
Everything from the 5.2 tomes is useless, more so for the people that raid and heck, even the people doing 24man since...you get the upgrades right? I don't remember.

Because not to be rude, obviously most people and myself asking for this is to prepare for savage.
Its pretty much a pointless wish granted if they DON'T uncap the tomes, because we need the crafted items.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Yeah and they can uncap it when 5.4 hits. There is no reason not too since the ilv goes up.
Everything from the 5.2 tomes is useless, more so for the people that raid and heck, even the people doing 24man since...you get the upgrades right? I don't remember.

Because not to be rude, obviously most people and myself asking for this is to prepare for savage.
Its pretty much a pointless wish granted if they DON'T uncap the tomes, because we need the crafted items.

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Yeah, they always uncap current tomes when the next tier increases. You still wouldn't get that on the msq patch.

They already do this with expansion patches to give players time to prepare (and to not make players feel like they have to rush through MSQ), so the same argument could be applied to subsequent raid patches. With that said, I wouldn't want it to be 2 weeks, but just one week. Normal can be released as usual on patch day, followed by Savage a week after.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yeah, they always uncap current tomes when the next tier increases. You still wouldn't get that on the msq patch.

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No point in arguing this as it'll just be a back and forth deadlock.
If you think they won't uncap then no point in this endless debate because I think they will as delaying savage is so players like me can prepare and actually do other content.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The devs can of course change how they do things. But unless they see a reason to, chances are, they will not.

Also, we do have patches where Savage is delayed, so I can go by that to see how they would delay other things if they delay Savage.

And the content that you are requesting a change to affects other things as well. So, no, I don't have to do the content that you are requesting a change to and still be affected by it.

And even if the mats are bought by previous tomes, delaying Savage still won't change anything because you still can't use it until Savage is released along with the new recipes.

And that's probably the biggest reason why it's a pointless wish because they most likely won't do that.

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Didn't realize you were part of the development team to know what they wouldn't do. Hey can you tell me how are they changing mnk? I miss playing that job.
What makes you think hey won't release the recipes?
If they delay savage pretty sure they'll gives the players things they need to prepare.

Also what other players? People that do dungeons?
Again, you dont need those tomes if that's the highest amount of battle content a person does.
And even if you do want it for the sake of just feeling stronger, it's just a week wait until you can farm tomes.
People acting like msq will be the only thing in the patch.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

They already do this with expansion patches to give players time to prepare (and to not make players feel like they have to rush through MSQ), so the same argument could be applied to subsequent raid patches. With that said, I wouldn't want it to be 2 weeks, but just one week. Normal can be released as usual on patch day, followed by Savage a week after.

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Expansion patches are bigger than subsequent raid tier patches and have two new tomestones while subsequent patches only have 1 new tomestone that comes with the Savage release.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Didn't realize you were part of the development team to know what they wouldn't do. Hey can you tell me how are they changing mnk? I miss playing that job.
What makes you think hey won't release the recipes?
If they delay savage pretty sure they'll gives the players things they need to prepare.

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Why are you equating future job changes to something that can be seen in the .05 patch of a new expansion since at least Stormblood (if not Heavensward)?

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Also what other players? People that do dungeons?
Again, you dont need those tomes if that's the highest amount of battle content a person does.
And even if you do want it for the sake of just feeling stronger, it's just a week wait until you can farm tomes.
People acting like msq will be the only thing in the patch.

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I don't need those tomes just like you don't need to rush through content.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Expansion patches are bigger than subsequent raid tier patches and have two new tomestones while subsequent patches only have 1 new tomestone that comes with the Savage release.

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They also stagger other content that comes out in non-expansion patches under the same reasons I mentioned, so what would make Savage any different there.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

They also stagger other content that comes out in non-expansion patches under the same reasons I mentioned, so what would make Savage any different there.

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Other content is more self-contained or have to fit into the primary system. In terms of PVE progression, Savage and tomestone is the primary system.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

The thing is for the turns 2/3 and 4 you need a higher ilvl than your actual BIS . The next savage tier ilvl is going to be 500/505/510/510 . Hardcore static can probably clear the first 3 without problem with 500 ilvl , but not sure for the 4 if it have a dps check like shiva.

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Well, then it becomes more important to make the best use of your Normal and turn 1-3 gear and the dps checks are that much tighter week 1, rather than shoving a 510 pentamelded set on your entire team right away. I don't think the higher requirements mean we have to be given access to crafted gear immediately.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Why are you equating future job changes to something that can be seen in the .05 patch of a new expansion since at least Stormblood (if not Heavensward)? .

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Are seriously replying to that as if it was a serious question? Are you being willfully obtuse? Lmao.
And I won't need to rush once savage gets delayed.
But you wouldn't know ofc. You probably never been in a static and if you have, probably was to farm 4 year old primals for mounts.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Are seriously replying to that as if it was a serious question? Are you being willfully obtuse? Lmao.

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Got it, so you once again have no point to make and start spouting nonsense or irrelevant stuff.

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And I won't need to rush once savage gets delayed.

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You don't need to rush without the delay.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Other content is more self-contained or have to fit into the primary system. In terms of PVE progression, Savage and tomestone is the primary system.

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Weak argument. Savage can still be staggered without affecting tome release schedule. There's no hard rule stating that the two have to be linked. You can argue on how they've established a pattern of such, but if SE were bound to the same content release schedule with no changes then we'd still be at 300 tome cap, resets being on Monday, crafted gear being ilvls lower than previous raid BiS, all advertised content being released on patch day, and so on.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Got it, so you once again have no point to make and start spouting nonsense or irrelevant stuff.

You don't need to rush without the delay.

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I made plenty of points, you just sticking to "devs won't change it" or "don't rush" is what all your points boil down to.
Trying to be a fake ass supporter for the other types of players for internet points like you actually give a sh*t.

Delaying savage has a lot of benefits. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why a delay is bad other than "thinking" what devs might do if there was a delay.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Weak argument. Savage can still be staggered without affecting tome release schedule. There's no hard rule stating that the two have to be extrinsically linked. You can argue on how they've established a pattern of such, but if SE were bound to the same content release schedule with no changes then we'd still be at 300 tome cap, resets being on Monday, crafted gear being ilvls lower than previous raid BiS, all advertised content being released on patch day, and so on.

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Well, until they show a willingness to make such a change, it's the only argument I need. It's not weak as the argument is not that they can't change, but that they won't given the history of patch cycles.

If they don't delay tomestone, I'm personally ok with delaying Savage, but again, there are Savage raiders who don't want a delay either. So it's not like it's a win-win argument there either regardless.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

I made plenty of points, you just sticking to "devs won't change it" or "don't rush" is what all your points boil down to.
Trying to be a fake ass supporter for the other types of players for internet points like you actually give a sh*t.

Delaying savage has a lot of benefits. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why a delay is bad other than "thinking" what devs might do if there was a delay.

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Basing it on what they've done with previous patches where they delay Savage is a good enough reason. If that's all my points boil down to, well that says a lot about what your "plenty of points" boil down to.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Basing it on what they've done with previous patches where they delay Savage is a good enough reason. If that's all my points boil down to, well that says a lot about what your "plenty of points" boil down to.

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You mean it basically helping DF players and giving everybody a fair chance at the world race? Yeah.
Better than your squares into circle replies.
"Don't rush!" Top tier counter reply.

The dev team has changed a lot of things in the past that have been in place for years before they changed it.
Remember how gear in savage dropped a random piece? Well now its coffers so it comes out the job you opened it with.
Remember how we didn't have pages and can go months with no loot because you keep losing you roll? Well now we have the pages to fix that.
The devs can change their pattern or how stuff works, don't act like they haven't before.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

You mean it basically helping DF players and giving everybody a fair chance at the world race? Yeah.
Better than your squares into circle replies.
"Don't rush!" Top tier counter reply.

The dev team has changed a lot of things in the past that have been in place for years before they changed it.
Remember how gear in savage dropped a random piece? Well now its coffers so it comes out the job you opened it with.
Remember how we didn't have pages and can go months with no loot because you keep losing you roll? Well now we have the pages to fix that.
The devs can change their pattern or how stuff works, don't act like they haven't before.

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Yes, "don't rush" is the top tier reply.

Because you want the devs to solve a problem of your own making,

If SE changes when savage is released it will done cause it benefits the savsge raid community as a whole. Not day 1 raiders not world first raiders.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

Bull. If you want a week one clear you have to sacrifice story.

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bullshit .

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Well, then it becomes more important to make the best use of your Normal and turn 1-3 gear and the dps checks are that much tighter week 1, rather than shoving a 510 pentamelded set on your entire team right away. I don't think the higher requirements mean we have to be given access to crafted gear immediately.

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Yeah i totally agree with that.

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That's only if what I say requires me to do that type of content, which is not true. If I'm telling you how to heal in Savage, but I don't do Savage, then you'd have a point. But I don't need to do Savage to tell you that Savage isn't going anywhere once released.

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Yeah I didn't think you did week 1. Not even worth having a discussion with someone who had no idea what they are talking about.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Well, until they show a willingness to make such a change, it's the only argument I need

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Well, obviously. The point of OP's post is wanting SE to make the change, which they have the power to do since they're not above doing it for other content already.

Going 'oh well they won't do it because patch history' is a dumb argument because they've already shown a history of changing up things despite previous patch cycle history, from tomes, crafted gear strength, raid drops, and so on. Whether it happens or not, to outright rule out the possibility is foolish.

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If they don't delay tomestone, I'm personally ok with delaying Savage, but again, there are Savage raiders who don't want a delay either. So it's not like it's a win-win argument there either regardless.

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I'm sure there's people that didn't want the new Ishgard and Relic content delayed either but here we are.