The toxicity starting to happen.

If you want wall to wall pulls, make a premade or be the tank yourself. Expecting new players in particular, who may be new to tanking and/or the dungeon they're running, to just pull everything because you've been playing for years and expect everyone to have years of experience under their belt instantly is straight up ignorant.

If you just want to play with people who know the game inside out- you're in the wrong place if you're queuing for pugs.

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

If you want wall to wall pulls, make a premade or be the tank yourself. Expecting new players in particular, who may be new to tanking and/or the dungeon they're running, to just pull everything because you've been playing for years and expect everyone to have years of experience under their belt instantly is straight up ignorant.

If you just want to play with people who know the game inside out- you're in the wrong place if you're queuing for pugs.

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If you want baby pulls, make a premade. Expecting experienced players in particular, who may have run the dungeon they're running a thousand times to just be fine with going at a snail's pace because you've been coddled for years and expect everyone to keep catering to your poor play and lack of effort is straight up ignorant.

If you just want to play with people who will let you be as bad as you want - you're in the wrong place if you're queuing for pugs.

I dunno, nothing has ever topped the toxicity of when Titan HM was released (when you had to do it for relic, and before FF14 fixed the latency in there), except maybe season 1 feast in HW.
The following expansions feel a lot less toxic in comparison.

Toxicity has existed since ARR... it never went away. And probably won't.

Asking someone to pull big isn't toxic lol, idk why so many conversations are surrounding that particular piece of the OP.

Throwing a tantrum in party instead of just silently leaving is closer to that.

And no, silently leaving isn't toxic.


That said, I feel like a lot of people use "toxic" as a word to just mean "anything I don't like" instead of what it's meant for, and the term's more or less lost meaning to me. If someone's being a dick, report them if applicable, kick them if available, blacklist and then continue on. I barely run into behavior in this game I'd consider "toxic", usually it's just someone whining about something they don't understand and then I summarily kill them with a tank buster. I don't feel bad for the BLM I did that to in Orbonne back in StB.

Just go along if someone asks for a bigger pull or prepulls. If you wipe you can blame it on them. Problem solved and drama avoided. That is if you can put your massive tank ego aside.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

This is impossible to do at this point. Nice try though. You cannot skip to 70 on either Dancer or Gunbreaker at this point.

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I meant to say "or". While a clear mistake on my part, it was pretty obvious what I intended based on the rest of my post—including an example using Warrior. Or were you too caught up in a "gotcha!" moment that you didn't bother to read it? I'll reiterate. Just because you unlock Gunbreaker at 60 doesn't change the onus still being on you to learn basic tanking. Going into Holminster Switch without understanding how your CD work and just expecting three other players to adjust because "you're new" is a selfish mentality. Don't be surprised if they're less willing to accommodate you.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

snip

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It's you (broadly).

More or less while yes there are dumb players who are toxic AF about this or that and demand excellence or whatever, the gist is most people dont care or self segregate from content that they dont want to deal with. The toxicity isnt as rampant as people claim it is.

I have multiple characters for fun, and on my non mains, I dont see the "Everyone hates new players" thing. Especially since for all intents and purposes that my alts are sub 50 with only 1 or two classes and trash vendor gear. Most people still are friendly and behave appropriately. Only a small handful of times have I seen someone be a negative clown about content. Ive been given advice even about doing my role and asked if its going to fast. People are still pretty friendly.

Now this doesnt mean there is no toxicity, but I think there's a lot of it being blown out of proportion. Remember this: You will more likely remember negative interactions over positive ones. With that in mind, how often do you really see toxic behavior through out all the interactions youve had? Times where people literally just join up, blast through, and leave without saying a word, or people who joke around and have fun, etc. People are quick to forget all the times where the interactions were neutral, or even positive in favor of those really debbie downer terrible experiences that stick with us.

Point is its nto that bad. The meme of GCBTW is just a stereotype, the community is decent, and you just have to relax a bit and roll with things. If someone shoves crap in your face, just be whatever about it, add them to your blist and move on. If theyre cool, be cool with them. If theyre new, give them the benefit of the doubt. Just be the player you want to see in the community.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

I think it's hard for me to weigh in on this specifically, although for different reasons. I often play with at least one friend and the one I do things most commonly with also happens to be an omni-tank main (well, lul WAR but still) so it isn't often I get a pug tank in level capped content.

That being said I did get a single puller in expert the other day (in Anyder of all places, so I didn't even know for sure until after the first boss because of the structure of the beginning of the dungeon) but oof. I'd say it's by far most common in leveling dungeons.

Leveling dungeons totally hit harder than capped ones so I'm not out there demanding full pulls all the time but I do think it's more reasonable to at least be pulling more than one pack (especially if one of the "packs" is just a wandering mob) so that people don't get into the mindset of stopping with each group which is infinitely more annoying in capped content.

So I guess if we include leveling dungeons I see a single puller once every two or three days? Far more than I'd like. Precious few of them are open to (or even seemingly aware of) attempts at communication about it too.

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Ah well, my condolences then. I have completely forgotten that leveling dgns also include lvl61 dgns and up, which is also the level range I'd expect tanks to mass pull (if they're not new to the dgn). I know 51-59 can be massed pull too but the structure of those things are sometimes..."odd", for a better lack of word so I don't expect it much there. Plus, all thosr skills that just grey out when you're used to your usual lvl 80 toolkit can throw you off a bit.

Know what? I'm gonna dip my hand into leveling roulette again for at least two weeks, just to see how jarring the whole thing can get again.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

If you want baby pulls, make a premade. Expecting experienced players in particular, who may have run the dungeon they're running a thousand times to just be fine with going at a snail's pace because you've been coddled for years and expect everyone to keep catering to your poor play and lack of effort is straight up ignorant.

If you just want to play with people who will let you be as bad as you want - you're in the wrong place if you're queuing for pugs.

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So you agree that if people want to play a certain way and insist on doing so that they should make their own party, correct? Whether the pulls are big or small?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you agree that if people want to play a certain way and insist on doing so that they should make their own party, correct? Whether the pulls are big or small?

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Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins.

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Can I get a source on that? I must've missed the memo about game rules that dictates people absolutely must do big pulls.

Also... I don't think what you said even has anything to do with what I said. Someone said that if people want big pulls, they should start their own premade group. So someone else said the opposite, that if someone wants small pulls, they should start their own premade group. So I asked if they agree that if people want a dungeon to go a certain way that they should make their own group if they absolutely insist on it being that way. Not really related to what you said. But thanks anyway.

Oh, good, another "somebody asked the tank to do the bare minimum and this is oppressing my playstyle" thread. Single packs can be done with just DPS, you don't even need a tank. If you're a tank and you're not at least double pulling then you're putting forth a frankly depressing lack of effort and are technically obsolete. Sure, people need to learn but you look at Sastasha, Copperbell Mine and Halatali and tell me they're not designed for more than one pack to be pulled at once - Sastasha even places the clams right next to groups of enemies to be very obviously picked up. Plus, I'd rather a tank eat dirt a few times actually trying than slowly go through at the barest minimum of effort in a team game.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you agree that if people want to play a certain way and insist on doing so that they should make their own party, correct? Whether the pulls are big or small?

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I think it was more of a "your argument can easily be turned back against you, try again."
But really. Big pulls are the norm (9/10 times I will get a tank who will try to pull wall to wall). I don't get why anyone would be against them. It's so easy.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think it was more of a "your argument can easily be turned back against you, try again."
But really. Big pulls are the norm (9/10 times I will get a tank who will try to pull wall to wall). I don't get why anyone would be against them. It's so easy.

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It's not a matter of being against them, it's that one way is (claimed to be) enforced, whereas one is Literally The Worst Thing You Can Do In The Game.

If you think someone should make a party finder or premade group for wanting to play a certain way, that applies to every way of playing. Period.

It's claimed to be enforced because people have been doing it since Wanderer's Palace, Amdapor Keep and Praetorium back in 2013 (though PS3 players were often excluded and it was very easy to tell who was on a PS3. Very long loading times). To not do it for X reason, especially in Shadowbringers where holding hate is extremely easy and doesn't penalise your DPS at all, it's a little silly. Especially in dungeons like Heroes' Gauntlet where doing small pulls just... it feels bad.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

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It's not a win if you wipe as a result.

That's a case of everyone losing.

Toxicity? I wish. Most interactions I had in this game are just silence. I wonder if I am not playing with NPCs after all.

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Originally Posted by Mixt

It's not a win if you wipe as a result.

That's a case of everyone losing.

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Wiping doesn't hurt anyone and that's usually how people learn.

It's a case of "We wiped because I did X and should've done Y", not "It's a wipe because we pulled big". That's called not leaving your comfort zone and refusing to learn more.

Your attitude is the equivalent of "Oh, I died because of Coincounter's Swipe. Well, guess I better not run dungeons anymore."

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Curious question for anyone that has played the game for at least a year: how many encounters with single pack pulling tanks out of those 365 days do you encounter?

Idk about you all but last year, that number couldn't have exceeded over 20 maximum. This over the course of expert and 50-60-70(and now 80) which I regularly used to do. If I had to look back in the last three months, yesterday was my second encounter with a single pack puller.

Now I will admit I haven't stepped in leveling roulette since this year began so obviously, my numbers are quite skewered but still, I'm genuinely curious which kind of roulette this is happening from an apparent regular basis for this type of topic rear its head many times over.

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Not too many. I encounter the other extreme a lot. Squishy tanks who probably should dial it back but have been conditioned by the community that they must always pull big. Even when our dps may not be up to snuff.

A lot of people would be a lot happier with DF if they left their expectations at the door. I'm pleasantly surprised if we have a smooth run that works like clockwork. And I dig in my heels and work my ass off to make order from chaos if we have a group that isn't quite the same well-oiled machine. The only DF party I'm ever unhappy with is one with an intentional troll who is just there to grief us. And I can count on one hand when that's happened. All I expect out of my party is what we need to do to succeed, and a positive attitude when we have failures so we can psych each other up and get through things.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

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It's nice you think that...

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation and just stand there once the things I pulled are dead ESPECIALLY if it's the DPS pulling extra mobs (and I'm not talking about a DPS who found a patrolling mob while trying to do their positionals)

But to the original post... I can say that I started the game in 2.0 and I can see a definite difference now than I did back then. Recently started a new toon to play through with a friend, who started as healer, and can say that even when they say they're new to the game, tank will still pull wall to wall while he's not confident in his skills. And rather than help players improve, offer advice, maybe pull back if a player is still learning the game, people get angry.

I can think of no better example than when I started (also as a healer) struggling to get through Brayflox since I wasn't very good at healing at the time. Back in 2.0, players were very willing to do everything they could to make things work and get through the dungeon together. Now if you fail, people are toxic. They, without any advise, will just tell you to get good, or "go learn your job!" and vote dismiss the player who is struggling rather than try to help people do better.

This is only getting worse now that the free trial extends through Heavensward and we're getting a massive influx of new players in lower level content who haven't played at all before. We could stand to be more welcoming, at the very least to people who still have sprouts over their head.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation

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This is like... my favourite flavour of pettiness <3 Ngl.
I raid so my ilvl tends to be up to date, so it is not gear question. Or that I could not. I pull wall to wall when you let me do my thing in peace.
...
I am only giving the pulling DPS the courtesy I like to be shown to myself. How did the other cliche go? "You pull it you tank it"?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Bottom line, the person who wants bigger pulls always wins. If I'm the tank I'm gonna pull what I want. If I'm not the tank and you're sitting there bashing away at 2 mobs you bet I'm gonna pull more and bring them to you. Then you hit your AoE buttons to take them off me, simple as that.

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You spank it - you tank it, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

I am only giving the pulling DPS the courtesy I like to be shown to myself.

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Except as a DPS I'd never even run ahead of the tank, let alone pull something on purpose.
I find it disrespectful to the tank and would never think that the tank has to take mobs off me because I decided to pull them.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

I find it disrespectful to the tank and would never think that the tank has to take mobs off me because I decided to pull them.

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I've been done that several times when I played tank. I wish I could simply let those impatient dps tank the mobs they pulled themselves, but I think that'd only put extra stress on the poor healer. The healer is not at fault ;;

I'm team big boi pulls xD

Be nice to sprouts though! new people be new people!

BUT the ratbag tanks that turtle and get pissy when as a Healer you pull mobs to them while healing everyone AND tank mobs AND do AoE damage THOSE guys, THOSE "tanks" that get upset because you do your job, their job and the DPS' job...kick em :mad::p:rolleyes:

Never understood why every few dungeons you get "tanks" that throw a hissyfit xD DO YOUR JOB it's ridiculously easy to hold hate. One AoE skill with your tank stance up and the mobs are going nowhere. Do your job get punched in the face by lotsa monsters, the healer will give hugs.

PRO TIP: If a healer says "pull as much as you want" chances are they've seen every manner of loltank-mc-nocooldowns and are still confident in being able to keep everyone alive. It is absolutely do-able. So go nuts.

Tanks, you might think you are the "leader" of the party because you run in first. You're not. It's a joint effort. A great tank is invaluable. A hissy, spiteful, turtle "I'll switch off stance" tank... you...YOU are most definitely UNvaluble and at that turtle pace and petty attitude nearly every dungeon can be completed without you lol. You can leave.

In saying that, I'm only talking about the tanks with horrible attitudes and there are quite a few. Be nice to the new people though! especially when they're nice, we want those people to get better at the game and stick around! Sometimes peeps aren't that great at the game, but if you have a great attitude, you can get away with almost anything!

PRO TIP #2: Pulling at least 2 groups at a time works out better for everyone's cooldowns. Provided everyone is using their AoE skills, a group of 3 mobs will die just as fast as a group of 6, 9, 12... *as long as they all fit under the AoE damage*

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

I've been done that several times when I played tank. I wish I could simply let those impatient dps tank the mobs they pulled themselves, but I think that'd only put extra stress on the poor healer. The healer is not at fault ;;

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Yeah that's the downside of it sadly. If the healer decides to heal the DPS and mobs go for them I'll of course save the healer. But sometimes I see likeminded healers that are tired of DPS pulling things too and they just don't heal them :')

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Originally Posted by Doozer

So you agree that if people want to play a certain way and insist on doing so that they should make their own party, correct? Whether the pulls are big or small?

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Nope!

If you want to go against the grain you should do it in a premade.

The grain is full pulls in level capped content and at least doubles below cap with a few exceptions for super low level stuff where no one has aoe.

If you feel the need to do wall-to-wall in Sastasha, make a premade.

If you feel the need to single pull Hero's Gauntlet, premade.

Both of those things are irregular. Both should not just expect other people to accommodate you.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

You spank it - you tank it, simple as that.

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As a healer like... cool?

But if you decide not to tank things I pull then I can decide not to heal you at all.

See where the pettiness goes?

I just don't really get what the fuss is all about. Aren't we capable to communicate with each other anymore? It took me a while to get used and confident with tanking (started tanking back in 2.0) and since then i've joined the "pulling wall to wall" group. However, i know that since we're mostly playing with random people, that you will never know who you're grouped up with, unless you speak up or test the waters.

So, if i enter a dungeon as a tank, the first thing i do is greet the group and ask the healer if it's OK if i do big pulls. If i get a "yes", then wall to wall pulls it is, if not, i'll tone it down. If i get no reply, then wall to wall pulls it is unless things turn out differently.

However, if i enter a dungeon as a healer, i would expect tanks to do wall to wall pulls. If they stop at the first pack, i'll walk just a little past them to indicate that i can handle more. If the tank still stays at the first pack, that's fine by me. I'll simply DPS more. I'll even say that it's ok to pull more, but i'll never force it. The few additional minutes i'll be in the duty doesn't bother me, as long as the run is going smoothly.

What does rub me the wrong way, is when others neglect gearing up for the content their running, but that has nothing to do with being toxic. It's just being lazy, if you enter a level 79 dungeon with unaugmented and unmelded level 70 gear. However, i won't say anything about it, unless they also don't use their toolkit properly. If a tank pulls wall to wall, and its HP literally drops down to critical levels in a matter of seconds while being healed, then they need to rethink their strategy.

The same goes for the moments where both the tank and the healer are properly geared but it takes forever to kill the pack(s). If the tank runs out of cooldowns, the healers MP is running on fumes and there are still more then enough enemies smacking the tank, then the DPS are either picking their nose, are undergeared or not experienced enough with their job to handle big pulls.

These 2 examples are usually during runs where no one says a word and just go, running around like they're headless chickens. Big pulls being the norm for instanced duties are all fine and dandy, but forcing people into it because you want to is not the way to go. Running content like dungeons is a joint effort of the team, not of 1 person. If the run is not going as expected, either communicate about in a respectable manner or tone down the expectations.

Everyone makes mistakes, even during "easy" content (even veterans). Just... Don't fly off the handle if it's not going the way you want it to.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

It's nice you think that...

But when I'm tanking if someone else pulls mobs for me, they can have them. I'll swap to single target rotation and just stand there once the things I pulled are dead ESPECIALLY if it's the DPS pulling extra mobs (and I'm not talking about a DPS who found a patrolling mob while trying to do their positionals)

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The other DPS will very likely clip those extra mobs with their aoes, and the healer may heal the DPS you are trying to let die (They may even be a whm with medica II rolling). This now puts both of those players in a situation where they're the next target, while you continue to do suboptimal damage hitting single targets out of spite, or even doing nothing at all.

The healer in particular is now forced into a situation where they either try to waste resources healing the person, or waste a huge amount of mana rezing them after they die. The third option is you now try to complete a large pull with only one DPS, which is going to drain additional CDs from everyone.

Congratulations: You've just griefed your entire party, including two people that likely had nothing to do with the person you are 'punishing'. In a bid to harm someone, you've purposely hurt the efficiency of your group.

It's extremely ironic that people are endorsing this kind of behavior in an anti-toxicity thread when it's basically some kind of griefing power-fantasy.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The other DPS will very likely clip those extra mobs with their aoes, and the healer may heal the DPS you are trying to let die (They may even be a whm with medica II rolling). This now puts both of those players in a situation where they're the next target, while you continue to do suboptimal damage hitting single targets out of spite, or even doing nothing at all.

The healer in particular is now forced into a situation where they either try to waste resources healing the person, or waste a huge amount of mana rezing them after they die. The third option is you now try to complete a large pull with only one DPS, which is going to drain additional CDs from everyone.

Congratulations: You've just griefed your entire party, including two people that likely had nothing to do with the person you are 'punishing'. In a bid to harm someone, you've purposely hurt the efficiency of your group.

It's extremely ironic that people are endorsing this kind of behavior in an anti-toxicity thread when it's basically some kind of griefing power-fantasy.

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Surely the DPS that pulled the mobs in the first place was the one griefing in this case.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Surely the DPS that pulled the mobs in the first place was the one griefing in this case.

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There's a fundamental difference in motivation that's important to understand (This is not an endorsement of pulling as a DPS.);

A DPS that pulls extra mobs is doing so in 99% of cases because they genuinely think the group can do better, and that doing so will make the run more efficient and save themselves time. Although misguided and possibly selfish, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt anyone (usually).

A Tank that intentionally lets someone who pulled die is doing so out of malice, with the explicit intent of hurting another player as a 'punishment', with the known outcome of decreased party efficiency.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

There's a fundamental difference in motivation that's important to understand (This is not an endorsement of pulling as a DPS.);

A DPS that pulls extra mobs is doing so in 99% of cases because they genuinely think the group can do better, and that doing so will make the run more efficient and save themselves time. Although misguided and possibly selfish, they aren't intentionally trying to hurt anyone (usually).

A Tank that intentionally lets someone who pulled die is doing so out of malice, with the explicit intent of hurting another player as a 'punishment', with the known outcome of decreased party efficiency.

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Still don't see why the tank is the villain in this, he made a call on what was a sensible pull if the party is not happy about this they can talk about it after the pull. The DPS going and get those mobs is griefing and and fall out from it rests on him.

As healer I love big pulls but I don't care if the tank is new and wants to take it slow. I encourage them either way.
As a tank, my issue with big pulls is rarely the healer or if I can manage the pull, and more of - are the DPS competent enough to burn everything before healer runs out of MP and I run out of CDs lol

Lastly, it's a game. Let people play as they want. They will learn in due time. Don't be this guy who ruins a dungeon run cause you learned how to optimize a class and others haven't.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

As a healer like... cool?
But if you decide not to tank things I pull then I can decide not to heal you at all.
See where the pettiness goes?

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And then we all die because there is no one to tank that big pull... was it worth pulling all these mobs? :P

I don't think respecting your party members = pettiness. If you really want a big pull then ASK the tank if they'd be okay with pulling more.

As a tank I know my gear, I know how squishy I am and most of the time where mobs in the dungeon are located and how many of them. If I think that killing a few of them and then pulling the rest that's ahead is a better idea than pulling everything and then dying because I can't take this much damage then this is what I'm gonna do.

Again, instead of disrespectfully pulling things and expecting a tank to save you from mobs they didn't want to pull you should simply ask them.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Still don't see why the tank is the villain in this, he made a call on what was a sensible pull if the party is not happy about this they can talk about it after the pull. The DPS going and get those mobs is griefing and and fall out from it rests on him.

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Because it's almost guaranteed anything the dps manages to pull without dying is survivable by the tank. Theres absolutely no good reason why the tank should let the party die out of spite. Take it on the chin clear the pull, then decide as a party if the DPS pulling mobs is or isn't appropriate for the party if the DPS is being disagreeable with the party then boot them.

Just because you are the tank does not mean you get to decide to kill the party to "teach" that impatient DPS.

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Originally Posted by Reldhir

Because it's almost guaranteed anything the dps manages to pull without dying is survivable by the tank. Theres absolutely no good reason why the tank should let the party die out of spite. Take it on the chin clear the pull, then decide as a party if the DPS pulling mobs is or isn't appropriate for the party if the DPS is being disagreeable with the party then boot them.

Just because you are the tank does not mean you get to decide to kill the party to "teach" that impatient DPS.

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I agree with you on that, and that is what I would do. However I dislike in these threads that people seem to push doing this to tanks and demonise the tanks. If the party wipes it's because of the DPS being foolish with the adds and if anyone was griefing it was him. I don't disagree that it would be more sensible to take the adds and then talk about it but the fault lies with the DPS not the tank

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I agree with you on that, and that is what I would do. However I dislike in these threads that people seem to push doing this to tanks and demonise the tanks. If the party wipes it's because of the DPS being foolish with the adds and if anyone was griefing it was him. I don't disagree that it would be more sensible to take the adds and then talk about it but the fault lies with the DPS not the tank

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If the tank pulls aggro off those additional mobs and dies as a result of not being prepared for them or the healing flubbing up. Yes, you can fault the DPS. Everyone made an adjustment but something got missed. If, on the other hand, the tank throws a tantrum and refuses to pull aggro from those additional mobs and wipe occurs (or the DPS player dies), then it's entirely on the tank because they have the tools to adjust but simply chose not to use them.

Keep in my, griefing require malicious intent. Like LittleImp said, the DPS or healer pulling extra mobs very rarely intends for it to go poorly. A tank "teaching them a lesson" always does.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

And then we all die because there is no one to tank that big pull... was it worth pulling all these mobs? :P

I don't think respecting your party members = pettiness. If you really want a big pull then ASK the tank if they'd be okay with pulling more.

As a tank I know my gear, I know how squishy I am and most of the time where mobs in the dungeon are located and how many of them. If I think that killing a few of them and then pulling the rest that's ahead is a better idea than pulling everything and then dying because I can't take this much damage then this is what I'm gonna do.

Again, instead of disrespectfully pulling things and expecting a tank to save you from mobs they didn't want to pull you should simply ask them.

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All this implies I'd need saving, though.

Realistically with a pull not being tanked enemies are going to be hitting at the very least the healer and the a dps, likely both.

A tank is a luxury, just like a healer is. If people are playing with their brains turned on you dont need both to really participate, even on larger pulls.

But hey, go on being petty I guess. I hope I get you in a roulette one day so I can tank a pull as WHM while healing myself and the dps just to help get that ego in check.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If the tank pulls aggro off those additional mobs and dies as a result of not being prepared for them or the healing flubbing up. Yes, you can fault the DPS. Everyone made an adjustment but something got missed. If, on the other hand, the tank throws a tantrum and refuses to pull aggro from those additional mobs and wipe occurs (or the DPS player dies), then it's entirely on the tank because they have the tools to adjust but simply chose not to use them.

Keep in my, griefing require malicious intent. Like LittleImp said, the DPS or healer pulling extra mobs very rarely intends for it to go poorly. A tank "teaching them a lesson" always does.

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The healer/DPS could just not pull the extra adds? If people are so worried about pull sizes they could just play tanks themselves rather than pushing this kind of drivel

Giving someone a scare is one thing, but letting someone die due to the desire of teaching a lesson is petty and a waste of time especially when a tank can get the aggro with one or two uses of their AoE skills.