[dev1357] The Armoire

Take away the 100% condition requirement. Right now.

Great feature, but i'm really hoping they will allow us to store primal weapons as well (or maybe even darklight). There's going to come a time when this gear is outdated, and there's no chance in hell i'm tossing out all this hard work.

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Originally Posted by Ravidrath

However, I seriously doubt it would bring the server down to store two additional numbers for condition and spiritbond. Is it more work? Yes. But the player's needs should be prioritized over their own.

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They aren't being lazy. The same logic says that the uldah inn should work just fine as is, but we all see how well that's going.

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Originally Posted by Holland

Certainly off topic, but what else would you suggest for a death penalty?

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Aside from weakness, do we really need a death penalty? If so, how about just take out a small percentage of gil instead of making me run over to an NPC/other character to spend it or stop what I'm doing to finish fixing it myself? Heck, personally I'd take the unpopular choice of exp damage over gear damage because I don't have to stop what I'm doing and to go get it repaired.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

A fair amount of individuals would like to start at maximum level, because leveling is a needless roadblock too.

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Leveling should be interwoven into the gameplay so that it doesn't stand out and get in the way of progressing through the game. Attaching a feature that stops the flow of battle based gameplay is unintuitive.
I say, either make it so we don't have to go out of our way to fix it or drop the feature altogether.

But yes, this is for another topic.

The 100% condition requirement is there so that they have to store as little data as possible to make things as esay on the severs as they can we may see it droped in 2.0. (WoW has a similar system to this call "Void Storage" but it would delete you jems and enchants. If the did a similar thing it would be a free repair.)

It has been mentioned before, but the Dev team is using what is called a Flyweight Pattern. It involves distilling an object's data into two categories: variable and static. Then splitting the static off and storing it once, only referencing it within a wrapper that holds the variable information. The only difference here is that instead of having a wrapper for each player, they stripped away the variable information (spiritbond and repair) to save space.

What it comes down to is that even with just 20,000 users (the number posted above) this relatively simple, small, addition to the game would up a bare minimum of 60kB (more likely closer to 1MB since most users will store more than one piece of gear). Is that a lot, clearly not. But the Dev team has clearly determined that this system is not important enough to take up that much space that could be used on other, more important things.

Saying things like "it's 2012, not 1990" is just silly, good programming practices are still good programming practices regardless of the year. The 100% repair is annoying, but there are perfectly valid reasons for it, and it's not like anyone is using this for anything but deep cold storage anyway. 99% of the things you're going to be able to put into it are already at 100% unless you run around Ifrit in your PJ's often.

Just out of curiosity for comparison, since it is the leading MMO to date, can someone who has played WoW recently say how much storage space you can have right now in there?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I've never understood the need for repairs anyway.
It just seems like a pointless roadblock.

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Amen to that.

It's there so crafters don't' feel left out. ;.;

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

alot of these people also want to start at cap level too cuz leveling is a needless roadblack too

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Come on Vedis we have been around on these boards since it was launched, we both know Gramul isn't one of those people.

why must it be 100% durability, most people wont even get to use it .

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Just out of curiosity for comparison, since it is the leading MMO to date, can someone who has played WoW recently say how much storage space you can have right now in there?

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well you have 10 character slots and easch character has its own stuff, but no armor is longterm or do you need a set of equip per class/job

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Originally Posted by indira

well you have 10 character slots and easch character has its own stuff, but no armor is longterm or do you need a set of equip per class/job

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And there's the rub, so to speak. People compare FFXIV to WoW saying that if WoW can do it surely FFXIV can as well. But the thing is, WoW doesn't do it; they use clever tricks to make it seem like you have a lot more space than you actually do. FFXIV, by design, requires you to store a substantially large amount of gear than almost any other MMO out there and it's just not economical to have enough server space to store all of that information. Really, it's a pretty strong argument against the "one character/many jobs" design of FFXI/FFXIV.

If FFXIV were as popular as WoW, storing even one byte of new information (for the record, each piece of gear without materia should be taking up about 3bytes right now) would take up an extra 5-10GBs of data on the servers. WoW can afford that kind of space because they don't need to add data to every character very often. With FFXIV/FFXI on the other hand, every Class/Job needs it's own gear which translates to storage, sucking up more and more precious space.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: take it easy on the devs here, this really was a thought out decision. It's annoying, but computers are not, despite the commercials, magic boxes that can store infinite stuff forever. Making it so that items have to be 100% saves them a respectable amount of space and time, while costing the players very little (let's face it, as I said above, all of this stuff is going to be 100% repair anyway and if it isn't, you only need to repair it once before it gets put away for months at a time).

@Gramul: Fair enough. I feel the death penalty should be a bit more severe too, however, the iconvenience of repairs is enough to deter me from throwing myself to death's open arms without thought, I would say job accomplished I guess.

To the 100% crowd. We are talking about level 1 items that 90% of them are not used for battle so they should be at 100% either way and they are used most of the time once a year only. There's no justifiable reason to complain about this.

There seems to be a confusion as to what the Armoire is. Its not extra inventory slots like a retainer or a Mog safe (wich are the same...) just a place to store those items we rarely use outside of seasonal events, thats it. The next time you will be taking those out is in the next hatching tide in twelve months time, so please, stop complaining about restrictions that you will only see imposed on you once every twelve months... =p

Will take me about 10 minutes to get my stuff repaired, for about 40k, I can throw all that stuff in the inn and never look at it again =D

Wewt!! Even with the limitations, this will help me tremendously! TY TY TY to the devs for including this in 1.22!! /happy

why are people complaining about having items at 100%, how hard is it to set it in bazzar for 1k and then store it. it'll b -1 inventory space on u and retainers, some peeps saying that they rather toss it in retainers and forget about it, y not toss it period?

they should just scrap gear damage all together, the idea was cool but will never be implemented, do to the change in management and direction of the game. Gear damage was supposed to be accompanied with visuals like rust, mud, dirt, dents/dings, holes and broken blades.

it would still be cool but as it stands its just a pipe dream

can't you repair most of this gear as a level one craft anyway?

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

can't you repair most of this gear as a level one craft anyway?

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the job required to repair must be within 10 levels to the item you wish to have fixed.

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

can't you repair most of this gear as a level one craft anyway?

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It is not a huge problem, I was just saying that personally I hope they revise it. Yes this will be used mostly to store the level 1 event stuff, but bear in mind it is also for the storage of Job-exclusive gear (i.e. AF).. and yes I do/have worn this stuff so that the items are no longer 100%. I can understand the limitation at the moment with the game the way it is; doesn't mean that I can't hope that in the future they will amend the requirement ^^(Just my personal opinion)

I totally agree that it doesn't take a lot to fix, just a bit of an added pain if you don't want to always carry around gear for all of your jobs and want to dump it quickly into storage. My retainers are pretty full due to all the mats for crafting that I keep.

Still, looking forward to finally freeing up some more space :)

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Originally Posted by Shika

Yes this will be used mostly to store the level 1 event stuff, but bear in mind it is also for the storage of Job-exclusive gear (i.e. AF).. and yes I do/have worn this stuff so that the items are no longer 100%. I can understand the limitation at the moment with the game the way it is; doesn't mean that I can't hope that in the future they will amend the requirement ^^(Just my personal opinion)

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I puted my worn out AF armor set in the basaar for repair. 5k gil reward for each piece. They were repaired in no time ^^

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Originally Posted by Shika

It is not a huge problem, I was just saying that personally I hope they revise it. Yes this will be used mostly to store the level 1 event stuff, but bear in mind it is also for the storage of Job-exclusive gear (i.e. AF).. and yes I do/have worn this stuff so that the items are no longer 100%. I can understand the limitation at the moment with the game the way it is; doesn't mean that I can't hope that in the future they will amend the requirement ^^(Just my personal opinion)

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I would only use the Armoire for items that I don't plan to use for months. Most likely, all job related gear will be relevant until you get your desired darklight gear or better gear comes out, etc. I wouldn't advise to store that yet.

Do they grant invincibility?

Nice, some info for next patch is coming, this sounds good, can't wait to hear more

"Why not get another retainer...?" why not just use the Armoire? This line made it sound like they're just about the same anyway... personally, I like separating my gear into stuff I want to sell/get rid of, stuff I use, and stuff I want to keep for no real reason...ha ha.

Sounds awesome to me. Overall it IS more and free storage space whether its limited to certain items or not.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

So I should be able to free up about 1/3 of one of my retainers with this. Plus I will be able to complete the rest of the AF quests without clogging my inventory. Bring it on!

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YES!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

When it comes to 100% I really have the following to say

are you guys seriously wearing this gear around and using it and getting it worn out? all mine is still sitting at 100% and ill be able to toss it right in

and if you ARE using it, why are you wanting to store it?

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^This. Really, most things you'll want to store most likely are lvl 1 and can easily be repaired by yourself.

If you actually wore it out, that's only 500gil+1 piece of DM you're crying over.

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Originally Posted by indira

why must it be 100% durability, most people wont even get to use it .

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...you're kidding... most people won't get to use it? Cause... most players wear out all their special gear and items and for some reason it would be impossible for them to get it repaired?

Also to the "pandering to the crafters" case...

I dunno if you noticed, but crafts aren't exactly the most exciting jobs to level up. If someone actually took their time and leveled up those jobs while most of us were out running down bosses and monsters to level the 'fun' classes, I think they deserve to make some gil for their work. Crafting isn't super fun and its either a lot of work to get materials or really expensive. So asking them to take 500g+1DM to make your item 100% again is almost underpaying them really.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

and if you ARE using it, why are you wanting to store it?

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When was the last time you had a level 50 job wearing an Onion Helm? Why would you want to pay a crafter to repair it for you simply to be able to store it until you level another class and want it again?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

When was the last time you had a level 50 job wearing an Onion Helm? Why would you want to pay a crafter to repair it for you simply to be able to store it until you level another class and want it again?

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You don't even need to pay a crafter to repair it. It's a level 1 repair, so you can just buy a weathered tool and repair it.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

And there's the rub, so to speak. People compare FFXIV to WoW saying that if WoW can do it surely FFXIV can as well. But the thing is, WoW doesn't do it; they use clever tricks to make it seem like you have a lot more space than you actually do. FFXIV, by design, requires you to store a substantially large amount of gear than almost any other MMO out there and it's just not economical to have enough server space to store all of that information. Really, it's a pretty strong argument against the "one character/many jobs" design of FFXI/FFXIV.

If FFXIV were as popular as WoW, storing even one byte of new information (for the record, each piece of gear without materia should be taking up about 3bytes right now) would take up an extra 5-10GBs of data on the servers. WoW can afford that kind of space because they don't need to add data to every character very often. With FFXIV/FFXI on the other hand, every Class/Job needs it's own gear which translates to storage, sucking up more and more precious space.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: take it easy on the devs here, this really was a thought out decision. It's annoying, but computers are not, despite the commercials, magic boxes that can store infinite stuff forever. Making it so that items have to be 100% saves them a respectable amount of space and time, while costing the players very little (let's face it, as I said above, all of this stuff is going to be 100% repair anyway and if it isn't, you only need to repair it once before it gets put away for months at a time).

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Have you even played WoW, used a bank or had multiple sets of gear per character, many classes have situational pieces and a Paladin can play a tank, healer and melee for example.

WoW has plenty of inventory space, of course it doesn't have to contend with HQ items, which probably cuts the server space by 30-35%.

If you want to get technical though every piece of gear in WoW is enchantable, scriptable and many have multiple gems added which adds to the amount of data being stored, try thinking next time before jumping on the bandwagon.

You only need to look at the state of the current server to know its not capable of much and yes computers are not infinite but that's why you upgrade them, servers are no different.

They could easily solve this issue by making all event items have no durability or spiritbond, why would you add extra data to items that are not needed anyway ? its just a waste of space.

they always start by giving info about the stuff i dont give **** about, then when we get very close to the patch release and we know more about the primal and the AF weapons ...i hate you SE :( .

Just give us a Mog House.
Storing only seasonal/AF equipment is pretty useless.

I am not a fan of storing... this means you have to go to a city to swap gear. I like the option to Swap gear on the fly for different situations. Why can't we have another Inventory TAB only for gear that is not trade able. These items will not count in our inventory.

I don't get the hate for 100% and spiritbond. You're mad you will be spending 2 mins and a few thousand gil shouting for someone to repair the gear in your bazaar before stuffing it away, probably forever (making it a one time thing)? I doubt half of my event gear is even below 100% to begin with. Lets be real, this gear has no value besides the cosmetics. The system is the same as XI's event item storage, and i only ever pulled some of that stuff out when i went to lvl another job from lvl one because it was free and some had decent stats for low lvl. Here?....not so much, especially with all the PLing going on. And are you really going to materia a piece of event gear? It doesn't matter that it loses spiritbond.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

Just give us a Mog House.
Storing only seasonal/AF equipment is pretty useless.

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Yeah, clearing up a decent chunk of your inventory is so useless SE! Why the hell would you ever do this?! I want all my inventory clogged up with event items and AF!

Also Mog houses aren't coming, though personal residences will exist in 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Also Mog houses aren't coming, though personal residences will exist in 2.0.

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Well I will just have to go out to the Black Shroud in 2.0 and catch me one, assuming Dalamud doesn't kill them all >.>

So, um, maybe I missed something, but event items and AF armor generally can't be turned into materia anyways, right? So why would it matter if it's spiritbonded or not?

ETA: To be more clear, the only reason we care about spiritbond is to turn something into materia, but we can't turn this stuff into materia. So why would we as players care if spiritbond is reset?

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Originally Posted by Seyrr

So, um, maybe I missed something, but event items and AF armor generally can't be turned into materia anyways, right? So why would it matter if it's spiritbonded or not?

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because when its stored its reset to its factory settings, which makes storing the info easier when it doesnt need to store its spiritbond progress as well

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

because when its stored its reset to its factory settings, which makes storing the info easier when it doesnt need to store its spiritbond progress as well

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Right, I mean, why would PLAYERS care?

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Originally Posted by Seyrr

Right, I mean, why would PLAYERS care?

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i dont think anyone cares about the spiritbond rate, least not that ive seen
but its all done in an attempt to condense all the stats to just the factory stats so it stores that you had X item, not what condition or any other factor involved in said items

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

i dont think anyone cares about the spiritbond rate, least not that ive seen
but its all done in an attempt to condense all the stats to just the factory stats so it stores that you had X item, not what condition or any other factor involved in said items

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Oh, no, I totally understand that. (And I think Hulan's posts on this thread are excellent.) But I'm seeing lots of people say "OMG YOU SHOULD STORE ALL OF THAT DATA" in this thread.

I can vaguely understand why they want the durability stored. That's not to say I agree - event gear generally stays at 100% anyways, and since it's equippable at level 1, it's also repairable as a level 1 crafting class. You might be able to make an argument for AF, but it gets used enough that I probably wouldn't store it. Also keep in mind that this probably works like FFXI's storage slips/Moogle Porter service, where the item is "destroyed" and "recreated" when you store it, rather than moved between storage areas like on a retainer/Mog Safe.

But people are saying the spiritbond data should be preserved too, and I cannot see any reason that they would actually care about it.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Have you even played WoW, used a bank or had multiple sets of gear per character, many classes have situational pieces and a Paladin can play a tank, healer and melee for example.

WoW has plenty of inventory space, of course it doesn't have to contend with HQ items, which probably cuts the server space by 30-35%.

If you want to get technical though every piece of gear in WoW is enchantable, scriptable and many have multiple gems added which adds to the amount of data being stored, try thinking next time before jumping on the bandwagon.

You only need to look at the state of the current server to know its not capable of much and yes computers are not infinite but that's why you upgrade them, servers are no different.

They could easily solve this issue by making all event items have no durability or spiritbond, why would you add extra data to items that are not needed anyway ? its just a waste of space.

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I dislike forum arguments, so I won't say much, but I would like to take a moment to defend my position quickly. First of all, no, I did play WoW for a very brief time a few years ago but I do not consider myself well enough versed on the subject to speak to it; which is why I asked in my first post how much space WoW characters have. My second post was in direct response to a comment to that effect.

To my recollection, WoW characters have 3 builds give or take. That would be equal to 3 classes worth of gear in FFXIV (again, give or take). If we extrapolate, WoW need approximately 42.9% (3:7) the amount of gear [I made the assumption that any overlapping gear between DoW and DoM would be countered by JSE and/or DoH and DoL gear (the percentage is much smaller given the more generous estimate using DoH/L as seperate classes (16.7% 1:6)]. As I have said, I can't speak to WoW, but I would love to hear someone who actually went in and counted the maximum space one character could use in WoW. I suspect it would be quite enlightening.

As to jumping on a bandwagon, perhaps; I saw an argument to which I disagreed and thought I could lend my limited knowledge to provide context. If that is jumping on a bandwagon, then perhaps I am, I do not know what constitutes the act.

Your last two points are things we can agree upon. Upgrading is not hard - memory's cheap - but why waste it if you don't have to.

I know this is probably beating a dead horse but what's wrong with bringing furniture storage from ffxi? I thought that was an awesome function, gave you something to craft other then gear and materials (they could have carpentry for dressers and stuff, goldsmith for mirrors and brass handles and stuff, blacksmith for metal parts, weaver for blankets and table cloths, alchemy for glowing crystal lamps or something, leather working for leather chairs or leather straps on treasure boxes) and wouldn't it be great to have your own forge or stove to use for crafting bonuses (make em super expensive and require materials to run, like wood for a wood stove, etc so that people will still craft at guilds)? They could do a lot with player housing and storage and one Amoire box in the inn seems like a quick fix to me. And with that being said wouldn't it be wonderful if players could sit in chairs (like in skyrim) and you could invite people in your housing. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of things the devs need to focus on first and they are doing a great job and the Amoire is a good thing, for now, but I hope they don't stop at that and say "there you have extra storage ^_^". I don't think it should be Inns that have these features, Inn's should be available to all, no rather you should have to work for your own estate for these extra bonuses and give people something to spend more gil on. And how cool would it be if your retainer lived there and could be seen doing chores and what not? I like SE for their attention to detail and even little things like laying in the bed animation to log out for a resting bonus would be a nice added touch.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

As I have said, I can't speak to WoW, but I would love to hear someone who actually went in and counted the maximum space one character could use in WoW.

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210 I think is the maximum you can upgrade your bank to. (this isn't including personal inventory which is 120 maximum I think) = 330

But you can use the guild bank also if you have permission.

In 2.0 we will be losing 75 inventory slots. 5 bags at 25 inventory slots each.

i can see it now... the uldah inns crash and we lose all stored items!