MMO: Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world. There is no interaction going on here. Who am I to say that if you can't meet the requirements of a MMO that you shouldn't play it? I'm an avid MMO player and even on games that ARE more solo based, there is a better community because there is actually an advantage to it knowing more people and doing more group based actions. In 14, there is almost nothing that requires random groups or parties. This, again, is not how a MMO should be played. MMOs are there for people to interact with each other and help each other out. This is almost completely absent in 14. Am I saying remove ALL solo aspects of the game? No. What I AM saying is that they need to make the game LESS soloable and more group oriented. For example, you should be able to solo to about...20, then from there you should need to get a party for any decent exp, but still be able to solo, just for about 1/3rd of the exp per hour. This will not only encourage parties and socializing, but it will also help build a community within the game. This whole "We need to be able to solo everything!" attitude needs to stop. If you want to solo everything, go play a different game. There hasn't been a single FF where everything was soloable. EVERY FF had a party, why should this one be different?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Does anyone actually enjoy guildleves?
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03-23-2011, 08:28 AMDubont
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03-23-2011, 08:31 AMChezenI would hope not. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Two months is not that long. Especially when two weeks of it have been in a standstill. Things take time. It's not like more content was sitting in a can on the back shelf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 08:33 AMMalakhimNot to get involved in this particular debate, but I personally think the jury's still out on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
Of course that's neither here nor there at this point. -
03-23-2011, 08:33 AMAbriaelEven just talking is a form of interaction. I see people talking, grouping and "Interacting" together all the time. You don't need to *force* people to follow your playstyle in order to have interaction. Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 08:37 AMDubontgrouping with your LS is one thing, grouping with random people is another. Your FL shouldn't consist of only people in your LS. Yes, you DO need to force people to group. If you don't, the game will end up like WoW and Alloids. Everyone solos until endgame THEN they decide to group up, but it's usually with their guilds so again...there's no community. If you want a solo game, go play a solo game and stay away from MMOs which are meant for group play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Essentially what I'm saying is GTFO CASUALs. -.- -
03-23-2011, 08:39 AMdarkstarpoet1
i enjoy them, but my enjoyment comes from multiple hour parties that is hard to get a bunch of people together to just grind. i think the leves should have more of a selection, but i do enjoy the time in a party doing them.
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03-23-2011, 08:39 AMAbriaelMy FL actually has no one in my LS, it's full of other people. I group with people outside my LS quite often, when i *want* to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
Casuals paid for this game as much as you do. At that you have absolutely no right or reason to tell them "GTFO".Quote:
Essentially what I'm saying is GTFO CASUALs. -.-
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03-23-2011, 08:40 AMVixoh. well if you expected a complete MMO at launch, then I guess you win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayerc
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03-23-2011, 08:47 AMChezenI'm just curious, what do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhim
I'm not trying to debate anything either, I was just trying to point out there is no reason for this one. Yoshi-san will address group play. He will simply because it's the Japanese thing to do, even if he hadn't said he would. It doesn't mean, nor do I believe he will, put a stop to solo play, as that was a big part of FFXI not getting more players. -
03-23-2011, 08:47 AMDubontCasuals did pay for the game, yes, but they shouldn't have. Would if be right for me to go into a 400 level College course, without taking any of the previous courses, and tell them they need to stoop the class down to my level because I paid for it? What do you think will happen? MMOs shouldn't cater to the single player people because MMOs aren't MEANT to be single player games. There is a reason that they are called MMOs. Honestly, why would you play a MMO if you aren't going to take advantage of the ONLINE aspect of it? It's like buying a COD game just for the single player campaign. If you want a single player game, I'm pretty sure that there are a couple copies of donkey kong for the Wii floating around. You might want to try that =) OR, you can stay on FFXIV and when they start charging, you can kindly leave...since casuals rarely play P2P games because their mommies refuse to hand over the check book every month =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
tl;dr ? GTFO and go back to offline console -
03-23-2011, 08:49 AMAbriaelReally? This game was specifically publicized and advertised as friendly to *their* playstyle. So maybe you shouldn't have :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 08:52 AMDubontIt was advertised as being more solo friendly, not "We have taken out EVERYTHING that a makes a MMO a MMO, and have made everything completely soloable to where a 5 year old could easily complete everything."Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-23-2011, 08:53 AMAbriaelEverything? You can still group. You will actually experience MUCH faster if you group both with leve linking and grinding. So they actually took out nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 08:56 AMDubontGuild leves don't count because they are actually worse than grinding as far as exp over time goes. Also, I have yet to see people group up for leves outside of their LS. So yes, they have completely removed the need for group play in this game, aside from NMs, everything can be solod at a much faster rate than partying up. Leves, again, are the exception, but since you can only do 8 every 36, a party for 1 hour every day and a half is too casual and does not count towards group content at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-23-2011, 08:59 AMAbriaelNot really. WIth leve linking you can easily outperform grinding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
Here's one. And since I don't do it alone *by definition of group* there are several. According to simple statistics, if there are several that are known, there are also several you don't know.Quote:
Also, I have yet to see people group up for leves outside of their LS.
Maybe you just don't look around enough. What can I say, maybe you should socialize more? :D -
03-23-2011, 09:02 AMShadowskill
I agree with one thing Abriael mentioned, we "need" many ways to go about ranking up. take ideas from WoW, FF11, other MMORPG's open the door to other options for the player base to work with. The casual player base will be a welcomed sight in the long run as will the "hardcore" that is what makes the game a community.
Nothing wrong with having many options. Gain SP through some Story based "quests" repeatable or not, encourage group activities whether it be grinding (like FF11). Leave the casual player base with a means that they can enjoy the game as well, we are not limited to having just one method to get the max rank. or enjoyment from the game.
We all have good ideas and opinions plus experience from previous games, lets help SE with ideas to help make the game what we desire, one thing this forum is good for.
The player base will choose what they feel is the best form of SP gain regardless how many avenues we are given, that should not limit us as a whole funneling the group to go one direction. -
03-23-2011, 09:03 AMdarkstarpoet1i hate to disagree, but i see people grouping in adventurer guild and in the camps every reset. these are not ls and a few of the people in my static leve group are not in my ls either. we also allow anyone at the camps that are within 5 levels of us join in whether they are in our ls or otherwise as long as they have leves to run also. we will not allow people in the party to just leech though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 09:05 AMDubontActually no. Guildleves do not out rank grinding. Why? You can only do 8 leves every 36 hours. Let's say that you make..100k SP across those 8 leves, which is pretty normal in the late 40s. Well..that's 100k SP every 36hrs..Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
Now lets take grinding. If you grind for 36 hours straight, with a solid group and a good camp, you can make an easy 15k/hr. 15 * 36 = 540k sp every 36hrs. Grind > Leves, but only if you actually group up. If you solo grind, leves will be better, which is why no one grinds because no one parties to grind. -
03-23-2011, 09:09 AMdarkstarpoet1you're acting as though for that 36 hrs that the only thing they do is those few hours for grinding. i hate to tell you most of us leve link for the battleclasses for fighting and grind crafts for the time between those. with the massive head start you get with the few hr leve party and the sp earned in between leve linking easily out performs straight grinding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
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03-23-2011, 09:12 AMDubontI'm just talking about battle classes, because let's face it, the crafting in this game sucks. So yes, Grind > Leves in terms of straight battle classes. You may get a higher craft class than me, but GL doing anything useful as far as battle goes with that crap lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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03-23-2011, 09:24 AMdarkstarpoet1no i wasn't saying that crafting was great. what i said was that going by overall experience leves only take a few hours to complete then you have 30+ hrs left of the 36 hrs and that time can be used in any way you wish. be it battleclass or crafting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
you are also looking at by the end of a 36hr grindfest you are looking at you say 540k sp which is also 5th tier fatigue and only 50% sp gained per mob so at the end you may start off at 15k an hr but would be closer to 7500 at the end of that grind pahse. -
03-23-2011, 09:28 AMDubontTrue, but I also think that fatigue is a horrible feature and the bane of this game's existence right now. Casuals say that they should have the right to be lazy, well the hardcore players should have to right to be productive. I personally hate crafting, but I love grinding battle classes. Why should I penalized because casuals don't want to be left behind? I honestly feel like this game hurts itself not due to lack of content, but due to lack of fairness. Currently, it's TOO casual friendly that it burdens people that don't have lives (such as myself) and would like to play for 36 hours straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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03-23-2011, 09:29 AMLamhirh
Even tho there are guildleaves i personallyhate and avoid them, i do enjoy doing them with friends. Some of them are actually nice.
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03-23-2011, 09:33 AMdarkstarpoet1oh i completely feel your pain on fatigue. i usually have at least 6 classes fatigued each reset. that was the reason i started crafting was the only way i could do enough classes in a 7 day period without every class being fatigued. i feel lack of content and lack of fairness both contribute to the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubont
i hate being punished because i enjoy the game too much and at this time have alot of free time. i am on temp layoff due to being an industrial carpenter, but when i get called back i will go back to working for 60+ hrs a week so i will go from way too much to way too little time. i just want content because i have a capped class and have nothing i can do with it besides the nm's and after doing those a few times each they lose the appeal to them. -
03-23-2011, 09:42 AMMalakhimWell admittedly it's just my conjecture, but can 20 gigs worth of install data REALLY include as little stuff as we have access to? There's already been plenty of .dat farming and people have found abilities, unreleased classes(some of which have abilities already), and even stuff like NM models before we even got to see them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
I'm guessing that the devs are sitting on Ishgard and many other things right now while they tweak, balance, etc. etc. until they're ready for release, and once that update hits, assuming it isn't on a disc, I really don't think we're going to be downloading a huge file like that.
I could be wrong though, as I don't have any actual proof of anything. -
03-23-2011, 09:46 AMMishakai
No, I don't enjoy them that much. Too repetitive, and the mob AI is too predictable. The only thing I like about them is the SP I get doing them in large groups, and the gil.
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03-23-2011, 09:54 AMAtlasNR
Most Guildleves are a mindless grind. The only reason I would partake in them is for the rewards which were also rather poor. Combine that with the arbitrary limitations to the number of Guildleves allowed per day and you have yourself one majorly broken system.
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03-23-2011, 09:54 AMChezenHmmm possible. I just thought it was the graphics, cutscenes and whatnot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhim
But even if that is true, it's possible the response to FFXIV is making them rethink anything they already had in place. Plus any adjustments would need to work correctly with that content. -
03-23-2011, 10:08 AMgifthorseYeah that's the point. We do something we absolutely hate just because the SP bribe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishakai
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03-23-2011, 10:43 AMweeble
NO, love party play, hate leaves ...i mean leves.
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03-23-2011, 10:54 AMDreamer
I find them incredibly boring solo, but rather fun in a group of other people. The main problem is that there simply needs to be more variety to them. Currently, all the regional leves are simply "go here, kill this." There has to be more than this we can do for our SP, even if it's similar in nature. "Go here, defend this outpost," or "Escort this merchant back to the city," as is popular in LotRO would be welcome additions.
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03-23-2011, 10:56 AMCogs
they are boring, and so damn repetitive.
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03-23-2011, 02:03 PMApplePie
Peiste is the <3 And grinding crafts now is my new <3 Got four ranks on weaving (to 25) before the server shut down in a few hours :<
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03-23-2011, 02:04 PMdarkstarpoet1wvr is a nice craft, but remember you can never have too many cotton bolls lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ApplePie
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03-23-2011, 02:09 PMChardrizard
if its not the most efficient way to get ranks i would only be doing it for marks.
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03-23-2011, 02:16 PMXatsh
They are decent for a means of leveling, basically FoV from FFXI. I want more variety but then I fear leve linking will be a nightmare... without links group leves are pointless. So I am not sure how they can fix the repetitiveness without nerfing it at the same time.
Honestly I wish they would just fix group sp outside leves. It is so much better to grind on normal mobs then leve mobs, but the sp is just not worth doing it. There are so many great looking places and group SP locations in the world that are actually well designed and not bad looking that very few ppl have actually seen because there are no coblyns or leves in the area. -
03-23-2011, 02:18 PMviion
@op no i dont enjoy them at all. I find them repetitive and boring.
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03-23-2011, 09:44 PMKorbeiThe fact that everyone else does it is no excuse. It's not a valid defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-23-2011, 10:05 PMFiosha_Maureiba
I think guildleves have left me (lore wise) with a sense of incompleteness. Leves feel highl impersonal.
My character talks to someone at the Adventurer's Guild, sorts through leves, picks one up and learns that Juliembert or some such fellow is concerned that swarms of bees are attacking too many travelers on the roads around Camp Emerald Moss (it's not Juliembert, he's probably Camp Tranquil).
We as adventurers head over to Camp Emerald Moss, stare at the Aethryte until we're ready to kill some bees, find said bees, slay most of them, chase some down as they escape and are reinforced by seemingly related forest funguar, slay that group, experience a second long light show, and a crystal that confers our gil, item, and marks from the employer. But no one, but the reward crystal, confirms that the job is done or that our efforts have helped.
This is just me, but I feel like I started a quest and never finished. -
03-23-2011, 10:29 PMAngryNixon
I love doing levequests. As long as it's Dunesfolk.