I haven't reached endgame yet, maybe when I do more of what you're saying will make sense. I hear there's very little content.
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03-27-2012, 07:17 AMZaphod
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03-27-2012, 07:19 AMDhalmelAbyssea didn't kill XI, the unneeded level cap raise did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
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03-27-2012, 07:21 AMrekijitsuIf you've gotten all R50 classes, without the use of exploits, he's right. You could have learned something useful, or made a lot of money in that time period doing something productive. I'd find it hard to believe anyone with max everything has a normal life or plays any other games that deserve being played over this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
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03-27-2012, 07:24 AMZaphod
Holy. crap. My mind has just been blown by your signature.
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03-27-2012, 07:25 AMDragonWe're not here to discuss whether or not people have a real life, which should be irrelevant to any feature. Just because you have a "real life" doesn't mean your opinion is any more important, nor does it make you any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by rekijitsu
The fact of the matter is by now anyone that started at retail could easily have all 50s and still only have played an hour a day and even have had them before 1.19 came out. Anyone that doesn't have their head up their @$$ and can do basic mathematics knows this. -
03-27-2012, 07:25 AMdarkstarpoet1yeah, that's understood because you haven't reached it yet. when you get here you will realize the only endgame content that's viable and worth doing is the av dungeon, cc dungeon, and ifrit. the patches have done a number on the older content. the world nm's are a waste to even look at because the gear from them are worthless, moogle gear was worthless on release, and darkhold has been completely outclassed as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod
you can literally get with a good group and get your job gear and then go with that group and do every piece of worth while endgame content in right over an hour. with a good group that can do endgame content and go do a speed run in av(25 min), speed run in cc(25 min), and kill ifrit in even less time than that. you are looking at right at an hour and you have done everything high level this game has to offer that is worth the time to do.
right now there's just not much at high level to support the speed in which people level now. sure there's other things you CAN do like the 5 world nm's, darkhold, and moogle. the thing is the gear drops from them fails in comparison to crafted gear so it's just being done as something to pass boredom ad not actually having a purpose to them besides an achievement in your history and nothing else.
i'm leaving out the strongholds because those are not what i'd consider high level content since most people just use them for leveling and bond parties at the coffers. -
03-27-2012, 07:26 AMVaenEvery job at 15+ and 1 at 50? How did you do that so fast? Are you including crafting and gathering jobs? Did you powerlevel? Or were you constantly in hardcore exp groups? Did you take the time to do all the main story quests, GC quests, and job quests, and dungeons like shposhae and totorak??Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubberrucky
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03-27-2012, 07:28 AMrekijitsuSomething about your signature, have they actually mentioned Appearance Tabs being developed for this game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaen
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03-27-2012, 07:31 AMdarkstarpoet1i'd have to say my wife and kids would disagree that i do not have a "real life". i work from home for myself, but it's not like it's any of your business. i decided after years of time on the road i had spent enough time on the road so i started working out of my house.Quote:
Originally Posted by rekijitsu
i was a journeyman carpenter for 12 years so i spent most of my time on the road in hotel rooms. what do you do while on the road as a married man without your wife and kids there? i didn't go off and drink and pick up women. i went to eat after work and then would spend most of my night chatting with her and my kids on skype or yahoo while playing the game. it's easy to sit on voice chat in the evenings and just craft away while enjoying my time talking to them. -
03-27-2012, 07:31 AMVaenNo heh, thats mostly just a list of what I want them to implement in the game. A lot of it is stuff they already announced to be implemented in the future, so I can see why its kind of misleading.Quote:
Originally Posted by rekijitsu
But I don't think they've mentioned appearance tabs officially yet :( I'm not sure if they've given a definite answer on level sync yet either, but I could be wrong about that one... -
03-27-2012, 07:35 AMZaphodI think we're just two very different types of players. What I'm saying actually is relevant, just not well received by players like you. I certainly don't mean any offense, but for this game to stay alive, it has to have players that subscribe to it. If you've got time, here's a really good read about FFXI: http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff11Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
There was a time when playing the game for any length of time under an hour in any capacity was impossible to do in FFXI. You couldn't just.. hop in and play for a while and then stop. An hour was how long it took to just get ready.
I'm very sure that the majority of players in this game are high school aged, or else college students, with fewer adults. Very nice people. But it becomes very hard to play when time constraints step into view. Like it or not, this game has to cater to people like me who can't sit down for hours everyday. It's not because I'm cool, or constantly doing interesting stuff. I'm a dork! I literally don't have the time. but if you do have the time, you shouldn't really be decreeing that leveling should take longer so that me, and other people like me who generally aren't on this forum, can't play at all. -
03-27-2012, 07:37 AMAnswaI don't agree completely with what you say. The one thing you said that is the least true in my opinion is that Dzemael Darkhold is useless now. It's currently the best, least inane way to acquire company seals.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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03-27-2012, 07:42 AMPeptaru
Make a static, xp for one hour every day (or 4-6 hours a week) with people like yourself, you'd be capped very quickly. Or even just do leves with a duo partner... you'd be capped very quickly. I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks the leveling speed is at all okay. It is entirely too fast, and just gets faster the higher you go. If people have set themselves into the group that plays way less because of reasons: "X, Y, and Z" its fine. i'm glad to have them playing with me! Anyone expecting to be 50 at the same time as a bunch of other people who play way more are setting and asking for unrealistic goals.
This game has found a few really good ways to gain xp while short on time. Yes they are repetitive, but its not as if players have no options. It isn't that someone cannot XP if they only have a couple hours here and there. -
03-27-2012, 07:45 AMDubberruckyGranted I started during vacation where I had a very enjoyable week to play 24-7 :) and yes I have all my crafts above 10 but highest is only 16 gathering all started but between 1-10. I soloed everything to 15 but I joined a very friendly LS who do come out with me so no it was not all solo either but I would not call it hardcore being leves most of the time in groups of 3 or 4. I do not believe I have done the entire story line but my little bubble is not blinking at me and Ive done all my flagged quests and every ! bubble I can find in all 3 cities so anyone's guess to be honest. I am not a very high rank yet in my GC but I have ran Totorak and DH several times so far. The GC quests are very boring that I have encountered so far but the cs for each were fun. Like I said in my 1st post I do have hope for better low-mid game content but it needs work from this noobies point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaen
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03-27-2012, 07:50 AMDragonThe game will lose subscribers when all you do is log in for an event; the game will lose subscribers when you can just play it for a month and that's the end of it. FFXI's only problem, at most, was the soloability, which has in fact been fixed in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod
It is not relevant at all that you have a life because it's no one's business whether you have a life or not; we're not negotiating your future salary. You act like someone that should just be allowed to tell a football team how to do their job because you work for a living.
We're not talking about FFXI here, we're talking about FFXIV where anyone's grandma can solo 1-20 in several hours, solo 20~30 in another several hours, and get 30~50 in only a matter of hours. Why the hell should content even be released when everyone can have their Lv.50 class in a week? That's not even considering how much EXP one can get from PL'ing, either.Quote:
There was a time when playing the game for any length of time under an hour in any capacity was impossible to do in FFXI. You couldn't just.. hop in and play for a while and then stop. An hour was how long it took to just get ready.
Why should this game have to cater to you? Because you have a life? Get over yourself; you may as well ask to have a character with all-50's since all you seem to be interested in is endgame.Quote:
I'm very sure that the majority of players in this game are high school aged, or else college students, with fewer adults. It becomes very hard to play when time constraints step into view. Like it or not, this game has to cater to people like me who can't sit down for hours everyday. It's not because I'm cool or constantly doing interesting stuff. I'm a dork. It's just not an option.
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03-27-2012, 07:51 AMVaenWow, I guess they must have increased the exp on leves more than I thought :) They said there was going to be a temporary increase in leveling pace until 2.0 to catch noobies like us up to everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubberrucky
Well, I do agree that the low/mid-game content could be a lot more interesting and fun. Levequests hurt it, but Shposhae and the GC entry quests are interesting at least. In 2.0 the mid-level main story quests should be more enjoyable too. I wonder if people who already did the current main quest will be able to re-do the new main quests, even the low level ones... -
03-27-2012, 07:56 AMGukswar
WHY level sync... you migh as well JUST power level them ._. ...
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03-27-2012, 08:00 AMDragonAll power leveling is, is a hand-out; maybe we want to be able to party with our friends and do content without actually giving them handouts. Or maybe we just want to actually party with our friends, instead of doing something so boring as power leveling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gukswar
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03-27-2012, 08:01 AMTheVedisbecause people are trying to hijack this thread to work into their cause for level syncsQuote:
Originally Posted by Gukswar
level syncs will just speed up leveling, it wont slow it down, and as many here pretty much agree on, its way too fast
personaly, i dont care if they slow it down, at this point the damage is done when it comes to 1-50, but they can ensure it wont damage the future when the cap is raised if they give us a proper exp range from 51+ where we cant gain an 2+ levels an hour in parties...
this has nothing to do with the casual vs hardcore BS some people make it out to be, its about longevity of games, yes people want to reach endgame asap, but they also can get bored if they are handed it too easily and thus wont play for long after, you have to make the journey feel like it was an accomplishment as well as make it not too unobtainable -
03-27-2012, 08:11 AMdarkstarpoet1well yeah there is the seals thing, but do you really consider running through and mauling a weak enemy like the ogre or battral a hard end game event? we've completed it many times with only 4 people easily just for drops to turn in for seals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Answa
as far as worthless i am talking about the drops that come from there making your character more powerful. why would you go in for the alpine war jacket for your bard? the gear you had to go into there is very likely twice as good as the item you got from there.
to me running darkhold farming seals is no different than it was when people went and solo'd dodore and goblin for the drops and sold them in the wards. you did the run for currency and nothing else. it wasn't for the fun and you didn't actually want the gear. you just wanted that exchange in currency.
edit: my post was directed towards him showing what is actually viable end game content. yes, you can go to the bestmen strongholds and farm coffers/totems or yo could go to darkhold to farm seals, but neither is what i call viable end game stuff. it's more of a means to an end. it's like saying crafting is end game content for battle classes because you sell items to make gil to buy better gear. they are both only done for the currency exchange and not challenge. -
03-27-2012, 08:21 AMFiosha_Maureiba
A phone call destroyed a long smartphone post, argh!
Short: Too late to save the leveling pace in this Umbral Era. Let the Seventh Umbral crisis adjust leveling for 2.0+. Haha! Dodged that phone call, I'm on a computer (Sanguine Rite for posting)! It's fast until 10, slow until 30, then faster than expected after 30.
Extended and skipworthy:
Anyhew, I feel that levelng is a strange beast in this game.
If a player uses leves and behests at early levels, they will level at a slow pace. Duoing (alt lancer and gladiator), we deviated to some marmots in Black Shroud, jumped up from level 3 to 9 in about a good 30~40 minutes and sold their pelts for more money than we were getting from leves.
Things slowed down again and the combat difficulty for other enemies was enough that the downtime was longer with starter equipment and a slightly updated weapon.
Levels 10~29, the combat, gear, and leveling options are far less.
To do better in combat, you usually have to cross class at this point (Second Wind, Cure, etc.)
Leves generally don't seem worth the time for XP.
Weapons take more time to acquire (make them yourself, NPC ones spaced out, market costs good chunk of gil).
Armor is easily worth it, but similar to weapons and are usually a good 6+ levels spaced out before you find a successor.
As your combo options increase, your damage mitigation and healing abilities expand, entering an arena where more gear is floating around, combat goes quicker post 29. And leves start becoming worth their time in EXP (both company and non-company, except Nanawa).
Where in many other games, I would expect leveling to be slower at higher levels, it picks up. In this, it seems like there's enemies yield more XP, less downtime, killing faster, more gear options, more locations.
... OH! Forgot to get groceries, I'll be back. ... maybe
Edit: so I'm totally not on the phone, driving, in awe of how long my posts are. Good gawds! *puts yarn in own mouth* -
03-27-2012, 08:29 AMDragonWho called? Tell them the ESS (Eorzean Secret Service) is coming to punish them worthy of their crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba
Yep... that's the biggest problem, the inverse leveling curve. They will have to fix it, and though it won't be pretty for those without a Lv.50 or higher, it will be healthier in the long run.Quote:
Short: Too late to save the leveling pace in this Umbral Era. Let the Seventh Umbral crisis adjust leveling for 2.0+. Haha! Dodged that phone call, I'm on a computer (Sanguine Rite for posting)! It's fast until 10, slow until 30, then faster than expected after 30.
Extended and skipworthy:
Anyhew, I feel that levelng is a strange beast in this game.
If a player uses leves and behests at early levels, they will level at a slow pace. Duoing (alt lancer and gladiator), we deviated to some marmots in Black Shroud, jumped up from level 3 to 9 in about a good 30~40 minutes and sold their pelts for more money than we were getting from leves.
Things slowed down again and the combat difficulty for other enemies was enough that the downtime was longer with starter equipment and a slightly updated weapon.
Levels 10~29, the combat, gear, and leveling options are far less.
To do better in combat, you usually have to cross class at this point (Second Wind, Cure, etc.)
Leves generally don't seem worth the time for XP.
Weapons take more time to acquire (make them yourself, NPC ones spaced out, market costs good chunk of gil).
Armor is easily worth it, but similar to weapons and are usually a good 6+ levels spaced out before you find a successor.
As your combo options increase, your damage mitigation and healing abilities expand, entering an arena where more gear is floating around, combat goes quicker post 29. And leves start becoming worth their time in EXP (both company and non-company, except Nanawa).
Where in many other games, I would expect leveling to be slower at higher levels, it picks up. In this, it seems like there's enemies yield more XP, less downtime, killing faster, more gear options, more locations.
... OH! Forgot to get groceries, I'll be back. ... maybe
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03-27-2012, 08:32 AMrekijitsuThis is pretty much how I feel. The EXP gains feel disjointed. It took me way longer to level any class without PLs during the 20-30 range than it does for the 30-40 range in parties since they are available in that range. The experience feels disjointed. Probably the best fix is to increase the EXP gained 1-30, and decrease the amount gained 30-50 (or increase 30-50 TNLs and decrease 1-30's TNLs, which works too). It also takes too long 1-30 and too short 30-50, and that's a huge problem since you learn the most 30-50 IMO where you have your true class unlocked and more complex skills unlocked to work with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba
That being said, server merges are happening. Maybe R10-30 parties will start happening.
It also doesn't help that, you know, to create Bronze for instance one uses 12 Fire Shards, whereas later metals use 1 Fire Crystal. The game is designed poorly in many regards, thankfully 2.0 will (hopefully) blow up all that was left of the poorly designed Launch FFXIV in favor of more logical progression.
I think this is *probably* why my opinion is in the minority as well here, as people such as myself who have only just hit ~35 (on a lot of classes in my case) are seeing it speed up... a lot from what I'm seeing personally.
Maybe I ought to be quick and level what I can from 30-50 as opposed to getting the other things I have to get to 1-30 before they nerf 30-50 EXP TNLs >.> -
03-27-2012, 09:09 AMNevrath
When leveling thm from 18-21 on antelopes near camp tranquill something happened which should not have happened:
I didnt notice that i leveled up because i had another lv up just a few min earlyer (10 or so, felt like realy just a little moment)...
I was solo and combo-thundered those antelopes like mad. :O
Maybe i just had too much fun nukeing so i didnt notice the time.. that would be good now i think.
Aslong as they dont go teh WoW way and speed it up more...well we all can observe right now how that will turn out in the end. -
03-27-2012, 10:06 AMRydinThats a big thing too... Ranking up higher levels is easier than lower ones... makes no sense....Quote:
Originally Posted by Peptaru
Level Sync + power leveling = They might as well start everyone at 50Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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03-27-2012, 10:24 AMFiron
They need to cap exp bonuses....
1-20 max exp from a mob is 350, 21-39 is 500 exp and, 40-50 is 800 max -
03-27-2012, 10:30 AMVaen
Level sync doesnt have to be like how it was in FFXI.
If they did it right they would work like this:
Level 46 player wants to play with her level three 30 friends, so she joins their group, level syncs, and now she has the same amount of power as she did at lvl30. Now they can all group together and do toto-rak and all get exp and it will still be challenging, but the level 46 player's exp is somewhat reduced so her progression to 50 stays at the same rate.
They can give the higher level player gil/seals/special item rewards for level syncing to help lower level players fill their groups, and this will act as incentive despite the reduced EXP.
Level sync should only allow players of disparate levels to play together and be rewarded. It shouldn't allow anyone to level up faster. -
03-27-2012, 10:45 AMRydinthey used to... at one point you could not get more than 500 from a mob... no matter whatQuote:
Originally Posted by Firon
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03-27-2012, 10:46 AMPofo
I think standard leveling as it is right now works just fine considering how difficult it can be finding a party. Hopefully today's server merge helps with that. On that note, PLing is absolutely insane, I won't lie, I've abused PLing myself. With the use of my 2nd account I PLed all of my main's classes to 45 in 3 days, which is absolutely ridiculous. Outside of PLing, Wolves in Natalan are a tad fast, considering I took 6 jobs from 45 to 50 in a matter of a few hours, but for the most part, pre-45 you're not going to see exp like that in a standard exp party. I'm sure when 2.0 hits they'll tone down the exp a bit in exchange for all the new players joining us.
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03-27-2012, 11:44 AMTsuwuI was actually thinking about this very thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
What if Spiritbond had levels?
I.E.
A rank 1 botanist uses their Dodoskin Shoes and hits spiritbond. They're not too concerned with the materia a pair of Level 1 shoes will result in, so they keep on leveling, maybe repair them. Then, they switch to alchemist, and, lo and behold, they need some good Rank 1 shoes. They re-equip their dodoskins, only to realize they are getting nothing out of the quality time they are spending with their shoes.
However!
If it were the same thing, yet there were levels of Spiritbond - meaning you could basically spiritbond more than once over with each item (likely there would be a level cap around 5 or something), this taking longer each consecutive time - and each level of spiritbond produced a potentially more powerful materia, people would have a reason to mess with lower level gear and not shove suggested rank 36 gear on their baby Miner feet, but instead keep on trucking with the gear that actually boosts their stats and fits them well. After they've loved their boots for almost 40 levels combined across their classes, the resulting materia will be more than a wimpy "Gathering +1", but could be something more like "Gathering +5 HP +15)
Off topic, I know. Sorry. Just thought I'd spread the idea.
As to leveling...
I only have one class at 50 because I don't play super often. But I think it's at an okay speed, though I do with ranks 10-45 were a little more eventful. -
03-27-2012, 11:52 AMNabiri
I've said it before so I won't go into much detail, but leveling is much too fast to enjoy.
Finally there are some milestones in the game at low levels to have things to work towards, like obtaining a choco at 25, and jobs at 30. I still feel there needs to be more though. More to enjoy during the journey.
People reach the destination too fast and skip things. -
03-27-2012, 12:04 PMSearious
I better hurry up and get some more stuff to 50 before you guys get exp nerfed.
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03-27-2012, 12:06 PMVaen
I really hope they don't nerf exp until 2.0 (which is what they've said was the plan anyway.)
There's not enough to do at lower levels right now for it to be enjoyable if they made exp gain slower. -
03-27-2012, 12:46 PMKeyln
I just have one question. If levelling to 50 is fast...so what?
The way I see it, right now, even with the fast levelling speed is a bit of a grind. There's nothing really interesting before 50 that can't be enjoyed only before 50, and this game seems to reward players who have multiple jobs at 50 with more skills and abilities.
Really, if the only thing stopping me from enjoying the good part of the game is levelling, why make it longer than it needs to be?
I feel that levels should be like a tutorial on how to use one's skills and abilities, and it should be quick, easy, and to the point. Dragging it out longer than it needs to be does no service to the player or to the game. -
03-27-2012, 12:51 PMAceofspades
Leveling must slow down, or FFXIV will have a life expectancy of about 4 years max. XI lasted as long as it did cuz even verteran players who already had cap jobs still took almost a year if not more to reach cap on another job. then they brought in massive PL XP groups , getting cap jobs ( over half the time sink and the main driving force of the game) became a weekend event, much like it is now, 1-50 in 2-3 days max, I know cuz i have done it over and over again. Level sync is ok, it alows LSs to help eachother reguardless of current LvLs however xp gain must , MUST , slow down if xiv is to see 10 years or more.
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03-27-2012, 12:59 PMJericho
Slow leveling is an MMOs balancing tool. MMOs are built to accomodate players joining together and combining their specialization and expertise to accomplish common goals. That way, when different types of rewards drop, they can be passed to the players who can actually use them (obviously, the loot system is not completely set up for this right now, but neither is the leveling).
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03-27-2012, 01:01 PMPeptaru
People have no appreciation for the long, arduous, and yes tedious, journey to current max level. There isn't a sense of "I DID IT!!! FINALLY!!" Instead its, "pssh, bout time i got 50." Given the current Dlvl mechanics in XIV each level can be quite a power boost, slower xp (I think) would contribute to sense of accomplishment and strength for/of your character.
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03-27-2012, 01:02 PMAkumuSE can do nothing to stop that. SWTOR has the exact same issue and so will any MMO. Slowing down xp will not make those kind of players stay and do anything more productive than reaching cap and leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefmc
On Topic: I think reaching 50 is just fine where it's at. Some are not considering how you need to level multiple classes in this game to stay competitive unlike other MMOs. They also are not taking into account 50 is not always going to be cap.
I have leveled PLD to 50 and working on WAR(currently 45) almost completely back to back and it's not a fast experience.
I also think if I want to be a good Dragoon(haven't leveled, but favorite job) I will need to bust out a lot more grinding to get him endgame ready. -
03-27-2012, 01:04 PMRaistlin
is ok if the next level cap is 70-75, is too fast if the next level cap is 55.
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03-27-2012, 01:13 PMWynnTrue. SWTOR is also ridiculously fast with leveling and that is why SWTOR has the exact problem that XIV will have at relaunch with players hemorrhaging within a month or two. It is also why, from a business standpoint, it makes more sense for SE to slow down leveling, if only to keep subscribers around as long as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
Right now, who gives an F since its just our little group still playing. But come relaunch, for the survival of this game, they have to slow down the leveling speed. In my opinion, SWTOR will be lucky if it lasts five years. I'd really like XIV's lifespan to reach and surpass that.
I don't think it should take a year to level a class, but I also don't think it should take a week either. There has to be a balance.