SE needs to do more to help bad players

I know I won't get much agreement here on a forum dedicated to the game, where most everyone is going to care about being better at the game, but I think this is something that works in the game's favor, just as it worked in the favor of WoW at least for a few earlier years.

It may sound crazy to you, but most people do not play video games including MMOs to be ultra efficient at them. They play them to have fun. And if learning how to throw out AoEs or stack up their buffs in between specific cooldowns isn't fun for them they're not going to do it, regardless of how much the game tries to offer them opportunities for it. If it's forced on them at a certain point, then they will just quit, which is the last thing SE wants. In fact, they'd probably rather lose every single serious endgame raider than every player who can't be assed with learning mechanics, because there's way more of the latter paying for subscriptions.

I get that it's frustrating when you are someone who plays more seriously, and I bitch in voice chat and FC chat about random people failing things all the time. But overall it's better for the game that they stay than if SE let people go around telling people they parsed bad and causing them all to quit. Losing all those players, frustrating though they may be to play with, means the game would start dying and you would stop getting updates to the game you care so much about in the first place.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

This responses in this thread seem insanely condescending. Just because you post here basically saying over and over, that if the devs gave us more tools to learn mechanics that people wouldn't be able to learn anything more using said tools. You ppl complain that people are bad, and when someone suggests to add tools to learn the fights, you completely and with NO proof, say people aren't capable to learn in anyway with additional help. Just get over your selves seriously... But coming from these forums this kinda thing comes as no surprise here.

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I think it would be cool if some kind of dungeon trainer were implemented. Something that players signed up for, like being a mentor, that you could drop in with duty-finder to be either a "sprout" or a "mentor" and run dungeons designed to teach you party mechanics specific to your role, but still allow for real player interaction during the process. The current tutorials that I've done did well to help me realize ff14 is very different from ESO, but they didn't do much to help me interact well in a group-content dungeon.

I think people who truly want to improve their skill at this game already have a lot of resources to do that.

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

I think it would be cool if some kind of dungeon trainer were implemented. Something that players signed up for, like being a mentor, that you could drop in with duty-finder to be either a "sprout" or a "mentor" and run dungeons designed to teach you party mechanics specific to your role, but still allow for real player interaction during the process. The current tutorials that I've done did well to help me realize ff14 is very different from ESO, but they didn't do much to help me interact well in a group-content dungeon.

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The problem is the people that most of us are complaining about will never utilize these things. They either don't know, or don't care. Sometimes both. People who DO care will listen when people give them advice and believe me that people WILL give you advice the 3rd time you wipe to something relatively straightforward like a gather marker. People who want to learn how to pass things will go get that knowledge from other players or tutorials. People who repeatedly mess the same things up will just end up getting carried into endgame raids to turn them into 7 player fights with 1 wildcard mechanic that none of the others know about.

There is little to nothing we can do about it without making a mandatory intermediary "MECHANIC SCHOOL" that is a gateway to 50+ content. MAYBE that might work but you'd have to have a check in every 10 levels after that: "these are new mechanics to watch out for: Practice AOE dancing, PAY ATTENTION TO THE CAST BAR, THESE MOB ANIMATIONS MEAN GET BEHIND.

This might help but it's going to be a big takeaway from the content we actually WANT. Instanced content will have to be sidelined and every time something new comes out it'll have to be smushed in and the lockout will be reinstated till the new thing is learned.

I personally do my dangdest to train people I see make simple mistakes. I never kick, I only quit if it gets too frustrating. I've run out my share of dungeon timers because someone just can't seem hold more than 2 mechanics in their head at the same time or are just woefully undergeared and underpracticed...

There just are players who pay their money but don't bother to learn the game and don't want to and we kinda gotta accept that they'll be in those roulettes. Humanity sucks sometimes.

They've toned down early savage fight to the point floors 1 and 2 are trivial to pretty much anybody familiar with MMO gameplay at an intermediate level. EX is so easy anybody can do it with PUGs within 1 lockout. They pruned all abilities that added depth to most jobs and allowed people to be more than their designated roles. Yet you want to make it even MORE accessible? At some point why not slash the bosses HP by 80%. Will that satisfy you, you savages?

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

"2) They are just really bad and do not care...." (Bolding added.)

As one of the people who fails mechanics regularly, I just wanted to address this assumption that I see being made throughout this thread.

Background: 19 years of MMO gaming, from EQ to EQ2 to Rift to GW2 to SW:TOR to TESO to here. No, I never played WoW.

So I have a bit of experience in gaming. One might suspect (rightly) that it's even something I enjoy - perhaps even care about? But, here's the thing - skill levels just differ. I didn't manage to live through an Omega 3 w/ that fricking 'larboard/starboard' mechanic until almost the end of the 4.x cycle. I had watched videos. I had people call out over Discord. Didn't matter - my reaction times simply _are not_ fast enough to handle the 'if you see yellow ground it's already too late' timings that SE seems to favor on current cycle mechanics (I remember going off the edge on Titan all the time during ARR; now I could sleep & still dodge that because they've clearly changed how long the warning is up before the effect triggers).

I try to limit my 'fail drain' on groups by not running too many times repeatedly - I realize that people may get frustrated when I drop after 3-4 attempts, but I think it's probably best for everyone as the group gets another person who's almost certainly more competent (also I often seem to 'get' mechanics better if I STOP beating myself against them for a few days before trying again). After 9 runs at TitaX this weekend, I've managed to make it to the add phase without dying... um... well, I'll let you know when that happens. I've at least made it into the forest phase w/o a death a couple of times, & for me that's progress.

I think the game itself does a decent job of distilling the skill levels through the system of varied difficulties. I've never entered a Savage & probably never will, so the content certainly exists for the hard-core gamers who don't want to get stuck w/ the low-skill people like me. It would be nice if we could continue to share the regular and (on occasion) extreme trails & such, though, without the assumptions that everyone who isn't 'as good' is just lazy or AFKing (as I was once accused of after a 3rd death to an AoE in Dun Scaith; I wish I'd thought of the proper retort at the time - 'Sir or Madam, you severely underestimate my capacity for ineptitude!').

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The problem was that you weren't supposed to react to the aoe. You were suppose to read the attack as Omega charged and position yourself accordingly. Same with Phyllia's Left Knout/Right Knout attacks.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

They've toned down early savage fight to the point floors 1 and 2 are trivial to pretty much anybody familiar with MMO gameplay at an intermediate level. EX is so easy anybody can do it with PUGs within 1 lockout. They pruned all abilities that added depth to most jobs and allowed people to be more than their designated roles. Yet you want to make it even MORE accessible? At some point why not slash the bosses HP by 80%. Will that satisfy you, you savages?

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And after all that, we get people clicking off buffs.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Or you could teach them

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You can't teach someone unwilling to learn.

They do plenty to help these players.

Have you seen the rolls these players are blessed with for loot? I'm tempted to purposely mess-up in farm parties in case a mount actually drops.

/s

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

And after all that, we get people clicking off buffs.

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/triggered/

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Squeenix doesnt need to do anything more for bad players.

They need to let the community use available tools to let it police / teach itself.

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Your heart's in the right friend.. but SE tried to let us police itself... you know what that got us? The new TOS cause we as a base do a horrible job of policing ourselves. :c

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

As one of the people who fails mechanics regularly, I just wanted to address this assumption that I see being made throughout this thread.

Background: 19 years of MMO gaming, from EQ to EQ2 to Rift to GW2 to SW:TOR to TESO to here. No, I never played WoW.

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I'm going to address this since I have not done so recently. I think the last time I did was in 4.0 possibly.

Previously I said there are Good players who learn the fights when explained to them, better players who ask for tips, and then bad players who simply won't get better either because they are good enough but slack or simply don't care enough to.

I stand by that. But there is a subset of players within those descriptions. No where in those descriptions did I mention player skill. Only mentality. With player skill itself. One could say there is a spectrum. And mostly you'd be correct on that. Some people, despite doing their best, despite trying their hardest will lack the hand eye coordination, the ability to separate what is going on their screen, or whatever various obstacles to their play, will sometimes just not be able to succeed where they need to.

But here's the thing. If I go into a new fight, and fail. That doesn't mean I'm on the low end of that spectrum. Ignorance doesn't make one a low skilled player. Especially when on the second attempt someone like me will likely excel and everytime I run something my performance usually improves. So what I'm going to discuss is not a spectrum of skill levels. But one of potential.

To put it shortly, players typically get it. Or they don't.

I had a longtime friend of mine from EQ. Known them for about 16 years now. They're alot like Snapdragyn. Played all of the same games. I'd almost say they were the same person. But no, my friend did play WoW for a bit. But this friend of mine would likely not be able to successfully navigate a Primal fight. Not the hard 8 mans, but the first three 4-man ones. To be fair I think many of the solo duties would give them trouble, especially since they have level syncs.

There's no amount of tutorial, no amount of videos. In fact the tutorials would block their progress if a friend like myself couldn't carry them. I found out about a year or so ago that they were playing ESO. And I was a bit shocked. How could they manage that game? Well.. they sort of didn't. Well they did but not in the same way I did. They crafted all the gear they used and stayed the hell out of normal dungeons. Normal dungeons aren't required to clear for the Main Story. The main story and the overland quests are quite easy but challenging for a player like this.

Some players cannot look at abilities and know how or when to use them. Some players just can't grasp the fact that they need to preemptively move in some parts. There's just nothing they can do, its simply not going to happen unless they get it into muscle memory. But lets be honest, that's a slow painful process that requires 7 people plus the person having issues to go through. That sort of patience doesn't exist.

And here is why such things cannot be tested, nor practiced outside of live play:

We all know there is a meta rotation. For example, BLM is pretty easy right? On single target you Blizzard 3, Enochian, and.. wait mechanic happening. Stuff is now happening that is going to cause enochian to fall off. Well of course some of us know to use Umral Soul, maybe a swiftcast or some other tool to make sure we keep our buff up. But how is the game going to teach that? And even in that specific example of something crazy happening right off the bat, what about other fights? Every fight is unique. Its not enough to know a rotation, but to understand the underlying theory of each ability use in sequence. This way you can alter the rotation on the fly.

While dodging crap, while predicting what the boss will do next.

There's no teaching that. I mean I can tell people why I'll use a Blizzard 3 first instead of a Fire 3. But i can't tell them when to skip ahead. I mean I can give examples, but like I said, its going to be theory, not reality. And those players as I said who 'get it' will understand the theory. The ones who don't will struggle. It may even hurt more than help as they will apply it to situations they shouldn't.

Players will simply need to do the content they are capable of doing. From my experience, this game does a great job slowly elevating difficulty as one levels. But when one gets in over their head they do need to understand that they are over their head. And probably should bow out when that happens. This doesn't mean people ignorant to a fight need the boot. It means those who are hitting a brickwall and are dragging down the group need to understand this. The one I quoted says they in fact do this. Some others.. well don't. And that can be a problem.

But in my experience those players who 'don't get it' are hardly in the hardest content. They don't touch it. And those who are there and fail, usually learn it pretty quickly, or they don't.

With that said, my requirements from my group members are pretty easy.

- If you're a tank, tank and keep stuff off peeps.
- If you're a healer, heal peeps. Try not to let people die. Do dmg if you want, but try not to let that get in the way of heals.
- If you're a dps, then kill stuff.
- Don't be a bot.
- Don't be afk. Afks for minor emergencies are fine. If your wife went into labor, get off the game for Christ's sake.
- Be positive. Have fun. If you're not having fun, you're bringing my day down. I don't need that, no one does.
- Try your best not to cause total failure. This is the toughest one, but I'd say 98% of players handle this just fine. This tightens up in higher content. And truthfully, it should.

So if you're a random Ninja or whatever that can't get the Right/Left Knot thing in Holminister Reach down and die. I'll get ya up if I can rez. Its not going to be a big deal. I'm not going to boot you. Now if you're the tank or healer and I don't have the ability to rez and we're on our 3rd wipe because of it. Well.. I need the dungeon done. I'll give a pointer, I'll give a hint. I'll even put a marker on myself if needed so you can just follow me and stay with me. But if all that doesn't work. And the group is still wiping.... well I've done my due diligence in helping and well I need to be getting that dungeon done. So expect a dismissal in that case. Nothing personal.

And while I can't speak for most, I do wish people had that much tolerance for players.

Let me use a parser without risk of getting banned.

Let me help *myself.*

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

All i want them to do is to implement a giant half screen report with "USE YOUR AOE YOU DUNKY" written in it and being it shown to everyone who is not using their aoes when fighting multiple enemies at once. Only that and it will be golden.

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And they still won't. You could literally have neon signs, sound effects and voice overs and they still won't lmao.
Games already a puddle of easiness.
After Steps being nerfed, we all had to beg and plead against "Wiping" city to spare the nerf bat because people can't be asked to learn for a second and cry they can't
roll their faces into the keyboards. I'm not gonna sit here at level 70+ and tell you to move out of AoE's. Should know by now.
That's when they get the kick bucket. At that point (save if they used a jump potion and even then they should learn or they get kicked) then dunno what to tell ya.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Your heart's in the right friend.. but SE tried to let us police itself... you know what that got us? The new TOS cause we as a base do a horrible job of policing ourselves. :c

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That is very true. :|

I dunno, after too many years of EQ and then WoW, and Guild Wars, people just learned that they either had to carry their own weight (and lets be honest, that weight wasnt always significant, or at times it was just "RUN AWAY IF THE BIG RED THING HAPPENS" or "DONT MOVE AT ALL, JUST STAND THERE AND DONT DO ANYTHING EXCEPT PRESS ONE BUTTON BEFORE THE FIGHT STARTS, LITERALLY DONT TOUCH ANY OTHER BUTTONS OR MOVE EVER" [and that didnt even work so we had to 2 box a bard...]) or they should expect to sit on the sidelines and watch (and our rampage tank hated himself for 2 years while he boxed someone elses bard for them).

And people either got better or they sat and watched.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

This responses in this thread seem insanely condescending. Just because you post here basically saying over and over, that if the devs gave us more tools to learn mechanics that people wouldn't be able to learn anything more using said tools. You ppl complain that people are bad, and when someone suggests to add tools to learn the fights, you completely and with NO proof, say people aren't capable to learn in anyway with additional help. Just get over your selves seriously... But coming from these forums this kinda thing comes as no surprise here.

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There is proof. There's years, and years, and years of guides to work through, and every normal trial and 24 man, there's the novice network, there's the game itself telling you to read the tooltips, with the game itself showing you every mechanic, and introducing each and every single one by itself in a slow manner so they can see how it can be done.

Only a lunatic would say that there isn't tools. There is tools both in game and out of game. They just, never, bother. It's been 3 expansions. If they can't be bothered, then too bad.

Edit: You can never teach the very bottom of the percent without throwing them out of the game until they learn via an MSQ gate. There is a reason they are the very bottom.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Let me use a parser without risk of getting banned.

Let me help *myself.*

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There is no risk unless you harass people in-game about their dps.

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

And they still won't. You could literally have neon signs, sound effects and voice overs and they still won't lmao.
Games already a puddle of easiness.
After Steps being nerfed, we all had to beg and plead against "Wiping" city to spare the nerf bat because people can't be asked to learn for a second and cry they can't
roll their faces into the keyboards. I'm not gonna sit here at level 70+ and tell you to move out of AoE's. Should know by now.
That's when they get the kick bucket. At that point (save if they used a jump potion and even then they should learn or they get kicked) then dunno what to tell ya.

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:( I remember when Weeping city came out. Forgall and Ozma the two road blocks of weeping city. Its still too this day sad that people wipe on Ozma, his mechanics are as brain dead as they come. Did dying grasp a few nights back watched my co- healer stand infront of the boss and take dark blast too the face. They saw the boss charge up the attack saw everyone move to the side but just stood there!! Boggles the mind

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Originally Posted by DrFlesh

the only thing squenix needs to do is to double or triple the msq duty difficulty and modify the encounters for every role instead of a single brain dead encounter because dps roles have no heal and healer roles have low dps

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or bring in real consequences. if you die to the same encounter 3-4 times your char should be deleted.

A better tutorial might help somewhat for new players, and a boosted tutorial like WoW's would at least show a new player their skills. However, if a bad player or a new player actually want to learn how to play their class, they can read their skills, and practice it on their own, or research on their own if they really want to. Most don't want to, so a new tutorial would only be marginally effective for those who actually want to learn.

happens when 90 percent of the game is a steam roll. Same with Ex Primal steam rolls and everything you can do unsynch to take the fun away. Those mechanics are what made the fight fun and i wonder how many people don't even know what most of the fights were actually like because they just jumped in a quick clear for mount or wonderous tales party.

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Originally Posted by Nims

Or do like every other MMO on the market does and allow players to do so without getting banned.

FFXIV has the largest population of absolutely awful players and is the only MMO that I know of ( I could be wrong feel free to correct me) that doesn't openly allow parsers, people to correct each other for better gameplay, and or simply removing people without like a 2 hour cool down.

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Problem is the whole catch up stuff. You can easily get any job you don't know how to play to max level and have almost the best gear available, enabling you to join content you have no business in joining. That's why "older" MMOs didn't have that problem. You wanted good gear, you had to earn it. Casuals and RPers could mind their own business, you wanted to be hardcore, you had to earn your spurs by getting god and being allowed to join a raid guild, and maybe get decent loot after weeks of raid attendence as a rook. You saw someone in raid gear you knew they knew their shit inside and out. In FF14 you can't tell, I've seen lvl 80 people in full Ronkan doing less DPS than me being level 70 lol.

You have improved your gameplay without the game offering tutorials to you. Why is it that you improved while others didn't?

Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

You have improved your gameplay without the game offering tutorials to you. Why is it that you improved while others didn't?

Think about it.

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That's personal ambition, which many people don't have, since it yields no better reward. You can spend the whole week RPing, then spend one day queueing up for EXs or Eden without knowing anything about it till you get a party that drags you through, and get the same reward as someone that actually puts in effort. Participation medals are a flawed model.

Update guildhest with newer mechanics, or older ones. Not even asking for a whole battle but I would love mock battle/simulations of savage fights, aided by Trust like npcs. There's time where I'm certain I got a mechanic down but being able to go back in, while the static is done, to familiarize myself more would be great.

bad players are always bad. People that want to improve dont need others to tell them.

edit: did someone just say healers do little dps, lmao

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Originally Posted by DavidIven

bad players are always bad. People that want to improve dont need others to tell them.

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That's why we need more gating. "Git gud or you'll never get to play content X and acquire gear X and title Z". If they decide to stay bad that's fine, but they're at least not hindering other players that way.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Tank - Mitigate damage as much as possible.
Healer/DPS - Avoid taking damage that can be avoided.

That's part of the role.

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This is not required to beat any content as healers got rescue. No, I do not genuinely believe this, I believe this as little as I believe that healers are supposed to do 0 damage while they just stand around tossing the tank a regen once every 20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

This is not required to beat any content as healers got rescue. No, I do not genuinely believe this, I believe this as little as I believe that healers are supposed to do 0 damage while they just stand around tossing the tank a regen once every 20 seconds.

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Say that to me again when dps drop aoe on the entire group for uptime on innocence extreme, blow a meteor, and wipe half the group. There aren't enough rescues in a day to deal with stupid.

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Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha

Update guildhest with newer mechanics, or older ones. Not even asking for a whole battle but I would love mock battle/simulations of savage fights, aided by Trust like npcs. There's time where I'm certain I got a mechanic down but being able to go back in, while the static is done, to familiarize myself more would be great.

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What's the point? Cause back in 2.0 I never stepped into a guildhest until after I killed Ultima Weapon.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Say that to me again when dps drop aoe on the entire group for uptime on innocence extreme, blow a meteor, and wipe half the group. There aren't enough rescues in a day to deal with stupid.

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My original statement that that was a reply to was to non-lethal damage, which meteors into stars does not fall into. Note that I do not believe that DPS should ever take unavoidable damage, but it is about as "bad" as healers not doing damage while they literally do no other casts. They need to learn basic ABC, Always Be Casting.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

My original statement that that was a reply to was to non-lethal damage, which meteors into stars does not fall into. Note that I do not believe that DPS should ever take unavoidable damage, but it is about as "bad" as healers not doing damage while they literally do no other casts. They need to learn basic ABC, Always Be Casting.

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They don't want to. They say they are "healers" and healers heal, so they don't do dps. They know they have glare, etc. They don't use them on principle.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

They don't want to. They say they are "healers" and healers heal, so they don't do dps. They know they have glare, etc. They don't use them on principle.

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Yes, and that is as problematic as a BLM standing in avoidable (to add again, non-lethal and non-partywiping to clarify) damage and telling the healers to adjust as their job is to do damage and the healers job is to keep the party alive by healing them. In all fairness, if the healer does nothing but heal this approach is actually in reality the optimal approach as any healer GCD not spent healing will be a wasted GCD, so if DPS can just push out a single more damage by standing in the bad and still surviving so the healer has to heal more it is worth it as that healer will otherwise not do a single thing during that GCD, not that I believe that anyone should ever do this and definitely not to make a habit or even do it as a statement.

healers dont do dps when they are free is retarded, the amount of damage they can output is no joke, so why not make thing faster and easier? Do you realize that your damage contribution can prevent an enrage?

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Originally Posted by DavidIven

healers dont do dps when they are free is retarded, the amount of damage they can output is no joke, so why not make thing faster and easier? Do you realize that your damage contribution can prevent an enrage?

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We need to swap healers.

Most of the time my healers let the tank die during trash pulls because they're DPSing. Or they let the party die on a boss because they don't top them off between the unavoidable party-buster aoes.

Honestly I don't know what more SE can do than they already do with things such as role quests and solo instances. I sometimes feel like certain players are consciously determined to remain a liability to the party no matter how much the game holds their hand.

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer is expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1. A 73 trial is FAR too late.

Wasn't in the mood to read 12 pages, in case someone proposed the same (its not a new revolutionary idea), just label my post as agreeing to it.

I think this game just needs a more challenging 4 man content. What/where is the "expert" in expert roulette? Its just the "new" lvl 80 dungeon which replaces the previous one with a slightly higher lvl requirements and drops. Why not simply put 1 actually challenging 4 man dungeon in there, maybe some other 4man content other then dungeon, increase the rewards perhaps (since a lot of people seem to need a reason to do something challenging,or its "not worth it" or "inefficient"), keep them always min-ilvl and simply keep adding to those. If the devs design 3 new dungeons, 2 should be easy like the ones we have now,1 should be more challenging and be added to the "expert" roulette. We simply need something to be a "bridge" to the spike in difficulty we have from all previous and current 4man difficulty/normal mode/24man raids, to extreme modes and savage.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Honestly I don't know what more SE can do than they already do with things such as role quests and solo instances. I sometimes feel like certain players are consciously determined to remain a liability to the party no matter how much the game holds their hand.

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1.

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I wouldn't call either of the extremes "tight dps checks" you actually don't even have to have high dps, or healers doing dps to pass those easy. Had a dps down (d/c) with healers doing average at best dps from what I understood and still can manage a kill before enrage. It's when you have extremely subpar players who have no idea how to play their class effectively that you can't pass an enrage. It should actually be a higher DPS check, so unless you are actually doing average dps as a team you can just clear it.

More punishing enrages I think would encourage more players to play effectively, as in a death could potentially be enough downtime to cause a wipe, and encourage team play.

Lots of pages, but I'm just going to put my two cents on this subject as a baddie :).

Content that is force on players to get through storyline should stay easy. Telling players to get good, or wanting to get better is silly. MMOs are design for all types of players, some players don't really care to get better. We have no right to judge them when they are doing content they are force to do in story. Now if they are doing tough content that requires them to be better, and they know they are bad. Ya, they should not be doing that content and I can understand why people get upset.


Myself, I just play have fun. If I don't like skills a class has, I don't care if it is better dps or not. I won't use them. If a aoe rotation is clunky, I just won't use it. That is me, and noone pays for my account and has no right to tell me to do it unless I am doing content that is not forced on me to keep on with the story.


Also does this game not have tools for you to get around this problem? Make friends with people and make your own groups like in the old days? I might be old fashion in thinking this, but the convenience of push to play content comes at the cost of quality control of the players. So even I can't blame the bad players like myself too much.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Titania is a good example of that. Its tight dps check should in theory do a good job of weeding out the 0 dps healers, but in reality... there are some people who just do not take the hint. SE really needs to be less subtle about this. At some point people need to be explicitly told that (although it may have been watered down to one-button-spam) a healer is expected to fill every nanosecond they're not healing or dodging mechanics with damage. ABC needs to be drilled into them from level 1. A 73 trial is FAR too late.

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Titania is NOT a tight DPS check in any plausible reality. I have been down to sub 1% with runs where DPS died left and right, which is where I feel EX is rightly located difficulty-wise as it isn't Savage, and all content shouldn't be Savage or Ultimates. EX are pretty good introduction content to handling mechanics.

EDIT: I do agree that we need with what you want Titania to be though and that we need something like that below Savage raids.