Healers in the new expansion

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

So because you're not satisfied others that are are shortsighted or like suffering? Sounds to me that you're just complaining for the sake of it. This is the most fun I've had with White Mage since I've started playing and to say that only people that are shortsighted or like suffering can be happy with it not only sounds utterly asinine but it just makes you look you're one of those "I say this is bad so everyone else that enjoys it is wrong." kind of people. Which needless to say means you look bad.

Not to mention you say you want more stuff that contributes to DPS and Crowd Control. We just got a *900 potency AoE damage spell* and you're STILL not happy with that? When looking for a person that will never be satisfied one simply needs to look at the FF14 forum.

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It’s. Not. About. Potency.

As has been repeated over and over but apparently not heard. Spamming one button is boring. We want to achieve our dps through more interesting tools, regardless of potency. We’re not asking to be more powerful. We’re asking to be more fun. It astounds me that any player would oppose us in this.

I posted this in the Tank forum but will put it here for discussion:

From a healers perspective, Living Dead needs a healing buff modifier on it of some sort or only need to heal a portion of total damage vs all of it.

At lvl 80 DRK's can have well over 100K HP (most have 111K) and if they're in a situation where living dead is used and procs, nothing but a WHM Benediciton is going to keep them alive.

I used a Recitation (guaranteed crit) > Emergency Tactics > Adlo with a lustrate and it still wasn't enough.

I'd have to burn like 2 or 3 lustrates as well to even come close and it still wouldn't be enough.

I think someone did the math somewhere and it was like 3600 total potency worth of healing to get out 111K worth of hit points. My napkin math matches this. My 400 pot physic heal averages 12500 ish (439 ilvl). That would take 8.8 of those to top a DRK off (8.8 x 400 = 3546 total pot)

That's insane.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

It’s. Not. About. Potency.

As has been repeated over and over but apparently not heard. Spamming one button is boring. We want to achieve our dps through more interesting tools, regardless of potency. We’re not asking to be more powerful. We’re asking to be more fun. It astounds me that any player would oppose us in this.

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It is when *he specifically said he wanted DPS/CC* which this expansion has given generously. And a timing mechanic to optimize healing and DPS is not interesting to you? because it is to me and has added another layer to the job that does indeed make it more fun. It's not about opposing people in it. It's about not expecting things to be absolutely perfect and taking joy in what you get and you'll be a lot happier with what you got.

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

It is when *he specifically said he wanted DPS/CC* which this expansion has given generously. And a timing mechanic to optimize healing and DPS is not interesting to you? because it is to me and has added another layer to the job that does indeed make it more fun. It's not about opposing people in it. It's about not expecting things to be absolutely perfect and taking joy in what you get and you'll be a lot happier with what you got.

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I can’t speak for Gaethan_Tessula, but I would read his post as saying we should have more dps abilities, not bigger dps numbers. Especially considering that in the post you quoted he was responding to someone talking about how the only move WHM lost was Aero 3, and that SCH and WHM had relatively lost more.

Also, I miss the timing mechanic that allowed us to optimise healing and dps. Ffxiv has never been the same since we lost OG cleric stance. Although I realise that you mean the old “how much can I dps before my team dies” game. It’s fine. It’s why I haven’t stopped playing healer all together. But it’s less fun than what we had before.

As for being happy with what we get? How bad do you think the game would get if no one ever spoke out when something wasn’t working? We complain because we love what this game has given us in the past, and we hope that SE will hear us (if we make enough noise) and make some much needed changes. This expansion made healing less fun (WHM excepted). If we don’t let them know that this is the case, never mind fixing things, they might continue on the same trajectory and make things worse. As they have been doing ever since the aforementioned loss of OG cleric stance. If we do speak up, maybe the game gets better for everyone.

I don’t expect things to be perfect. I just expect them to be no worse than they were before. If they can’t make something better they should leave it alone. I heard one SE employee saying in an interview that they hadn’t messed much with RDM’s old kit, because they wanted to add new options, not take them away. I want that philosophy to apply to us, too.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I posted this in the Tank forum but will put it here for discussion:

From a healers perspective, Living Dead needs a healing buff modifier on it of some sort or only need to heal a portion of total damage vs all of it.

At lvl 80 DRK's can have well over 100K HP (most have 111K) and if they're in a situation where living dead is used and procs, nothing but a WHM Benediciton is going to keep them alive.

I used a Recitation (guaranteed crit) > Emergency Tactics > Adlo with a lustrate and it still wasn't enough.

I'd have to burn like 2 or 3 lustrates as well to even come close and it still wouldn't be enough.

I think someone did the math somewhere and it was like 3600 total potency worth of healing to get out 111K worth of hit points. My napkin math matches this. My 400 pot physic heal averages 12500 ish (439 ilvl). That would take 8.8 of those to top a DRK off (8.8 x 400 = 3546 total pot)

That's insane.

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I was actually having this very same discussion with the tanks in my FC about the invulnerability abilities last night. We all came to the agreement that DRK now has the worst invuln due to the amount of healing you need to do to get them out of Walking Dead is immense.

In case anyone is wondering, and taking Deceptus' example above:

Recitation + Emergency Tactics + Adlo = (300 potency)*(1.4 crit bonus)*(3.5 for healing and shield bonus) = 1,470 potency
3x Lustrate = 1,800 potency

Total potency is 3,270 which is still short of the needed 3,600 one has to hit to heal a tank from 1HP. You'll actually need to Dissipation and probably Lustrate at least once more to keep your DRK from dying.

Depending on how the HP curve grows in relation to the healing power curve, this value could become even wider.

This will be easier in a raid scenario where there are two healers available, for in a 4-man instance, the DRK invulnerability is really painful to deal with if you aren't a WHM.

Tank hp is likely to get as high as 150,000 with probably a discrepancy of 1-2k higher.

I would need to double check, but if I remember correctly, at max ilvl tank hp is double what it was at max ilvl of previous expansions. Somewhere around 15-16k in ARR, about 36k in HW, and something like 76-79k in SB.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I was actually having this very same discussion with the tanks in my FC about the invulnerability abilities last night. We all came to the agreement that DRK now has the worst invuln due to the amount of healing you need to do to get them out of Walking Dead is immense.

In case anyone is wondering, and taking Deceptus' example above:

Recitation + Emergency Tactics + Adlo = (300 potency)*(1.4 crit bonus)*(3.5 for healing and shield bonus) = 1,470 potency
3x Lustrate = 1,800 potency

Total potency is 3,270 which is still short of the needed 3,600 one has to hit to heal a tank from 1HP. You'll actually need to Dissipation and probably Lustrate at least once more to keep your DRK from dying.

Depending on how the HP curve grows in relation to the healing power curve, this value could become even wider.

This will be easier in a raid scenario where there are two healers available, for in a 4-man instance, the DRK invulnerability is really painful to deal with if you aren't a WHM.

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Spot on. So a SCH has to drain damn near all their emergency CD's to not keep a tank alive, meanwhile, a WHM has to press one button and still keeps all of their other emergency contingencies.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

It’s. Not. About. Potency.

As has been repeated over and over but apparently not heard. Spamming one button is boring. We want to achieve our dps through more interesting tools, regardless of potency. We’re not asking to be more powerful. We’re asking to be more fun. It astounds me that any player would oppose us in this.

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Astounding as it may be....I don't want a more complex DPS rotation. I can go play red mage or something for that. My healer has enough buttons as is.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Astounding as it may be....I don't want a more complex DPS rotation. I can go play red mage or something for that. My healer has enough buttons as is.

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i played sch for its more dps options and the game hasnt increased healing so they need to give me something to do

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I posted this in the Tank forum but will put it here for discussion:

From a healers perspective, Living Dead needs a healing buff modifier on it of some sort or only need to heal a portion of total damage vs all of it.

At lvl 80 DRK's can have well over 100K HP (most have 111K) and if they're in a situation where living dead is used and procs, nothing but a WHM Benediciton is going to keep them alive.

I used a Recitation (guaranteed crit) > Emergency Tactics > Adlo with a lustrate and it still wasn't enough.

I'd have to burn like 2 or 3 lustrates as well to even come close and it still wouldn't be enough.

I think someone did the math somewhere and it was like 3600 total potency worth of healing to get out 111K worth of hit points. My napkin math matches this. My 400 pot physic heal averages 12500 ish (439 ilvl). That would take 8.8 of those to top a DRK off (8.8 x 400 = 3546 total pot)

That's insane.

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I've only ever failed one pull this expansion and naturally it was with a dark knight. Though it's likely he didn't rotate his cooldowns properly because I didn't have this problem with the same pull in a different run. Once living dead popped most stuff was on cooldown and of course he's going to die if Square Enix expects me to heal 114-120k hp in 10 seconds. Tank hp went up by quite a bit as it is just going to 80, I don't see my healing going up by that much,

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Astounding as it may be....I don't want a more complex DPS rotation. I can go play red mage or something for that. My healer has enough buttons as is.

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And WHM has always been great for that. Heck, I used to play it fairly often, albeit not as often as SCH or AST. The healers should be different. Balanced, but different. And if I can only have one or the other I’ll take just different.

Plus, even if they did give all the healers good rotations, you could ignore them. Ultimately as long as people are staying alive you’re doing your job and anyone that gives you trouble for not doing something else is an a#&. But it would be nice if those tools were there for those of us who want them.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

It’s. Not. About. Potency.

As has been repeated over and over but apparently not heard. Spamming one button is boring. We want to achieve our dps through more interesting tools, regardless of potency. We’re not asking to be more powerful. We’re asking to be more fun. It astounds me that any player would oppose us in this.

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This is it right here. Healers want a dps toolkit that is more complex and engaging than pressing the same two buttons again and again. As many have said before, healers have a lot of downtime to dps, and healers want to spend that time doing a more fun rotation rather than spamming the same buttons.

As someone who's been playing white mage since 2.0, I'm used to just pressing 3-4 buttons when I dps (presence of mind, thin air, aero dot and stone/holy spam). I remember things were pretty interesting when cleric stance swapped our mind stat with intelligence so we could dps back in the day. That's about as conplicated as it ever got for white mages, which is why I think white mages aren't as dissatisfied as astrologians and scholars are.

Now, to be perfectly honest, and to be somewhat of a devil's advocate, I can see why the developers and designers chose to homogenize and simplify all three healers' dps toolkits.

Giving healers a dps toolkit that is close to the complexity or depth of an actual dps job's toolkit would only add unnecessary layers of difficulty/stress.

Healers are already stressed enough with the responsibility to look after party members; giving them a dps toolkit that's more complex would make the job harder.

I think what the developers wanted to do was give each healer a dps toolkit that is simple and straightforward with no complicated mechanics. I think the idea is that healers are already dealing with enough that they shouldn't have to deal with complex mechanics/rotations for their dps output. Rather than feel pressured to optimize their dps rotations, I think they want healers to have reliable and simple dps tools to make playing easier.

Just to clarify, I don't necessarily agree with this. I just believe this is what the developers had in mind and therefore explain why things are the way they are with healers right now.

I definitely do agree that scholars and white mages should have a dps skill to use up their gauge resources (aetherflow and lilies).

I'd like class complexity focused on the more support side. SCH has a host of oGCDs along with the fairy and Aetherflow to manage. SCH works healing with precision and control, whereas WHM healing is more about raw healing potency. I find it legitimately fun, the problem is it only surfaces when parties are doing poorly or on big pulls in dungeons. AST has the card minigame which does need some polishing, but on its own can offer the complexity that sets it apart from other healers.

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Originally Posted by MadeOfMush

I'd like class complexity focused on the more support side. SCH has a host of oGCDs along with the fairy and Aetherflow to manage. SCH works healing with precision and control, whereas WHM healing is more about raw healing potency. I find it legitimately fun, the problem is it only surfaces when parties are doing poorly or on big pulls in dungeons. AST has the card minigame which does need some polishing, but on its own can offer the complexity that sets it apart from other healers.

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Yup. The way I see it there are 4 requirements for whatever system they give us to fill our non-healing downtime:

1) Interesting. Ergo more than 3 buttons. I’d say no less than 7 (including things like cool downs, e.g. presence of mind) for an absolute minumum. (WHM has 7 now by my count). Also, requiring decisions of us, as well as risk/reward calculations.

2) Sustainable. A couple of buff abilities that are on 30 second cool downs won’t cut it because there’ll still be a lot of time left in between.

3) Allows for great constant improvement. Ultimately defence and healing can’t be improved after people stop dying. We need some offensive kit so we can keep pushing ourselves.

4) Lack or requiring us to do dumb stuff. Like overhead or waste Aetherflow stacks.

If they tick these boxes I don’t care if they give us dps, buffs, or a set of inspirational dances.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

And WHM has always been great for that. Heck, I used to play it fairly often, albeit not as often as SCH or AST. The healers should be different. Balanced, but different. And if I can only have one or the other I’ll take just different.

Plus, even if they did give all the healers good rotations, you could ignore them. Ultimately as long as people are staying alive you’re doing your job and anyone that gives you trouble for not doing something else is an a#&. But it would be nice if those tools were there for those of us who want them.

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I feel like if certain healers had a more complex DPS rotation but the DPS output was less, there would be a fair bit of salt over that.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I feel like if certain healers had a more complex DPS rotation but the DPS output was less, there would be a fair bit of salt over that.

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There'd be salt, sure, but a LOT less of it. We did not need more healing tools, the ones we had were fine, giving us more doesnt help, especially since healing requirements havent changed. That's the biggest problem, sure we have some interesting healing tools (I genuinely love recitation it is the only good thing scholar got out of this expansion if you ask me) but how often are you actually healing? In the worst case, when you dont know a fight at all, you're looking at maybe 50% of the time. Most of the time though you're averaging 10-20% of the time. that means 80 percent of what you're doing is spamming 1 button.

If other people like spamming 1 button for their dps as a healer that's fine, let them do that, but the rest of us shouldnt be forced to have that same play style. We want more to do, because when we do go into content and we figure out how to optimize the heals, we want to be rewarded for it. That reward WAS being able to dps, but there is nothing rewarding about just spamming 1 button.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Uhh, SCH didn't really lose much in the way of healing when it came uniqueness. We kept the fairy, and all of our healing skills. We really only lost our DPS, which didn't really make us unique.

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Not being able to execute fairy actions while casting does remove the class uniqueness. Now we're just whm with ogcds for fairy spells.

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Originally Posted by _forgotten

Not being able to execute fairy actions while casting does remove the class uniqueness. Now we're just whm with ogcds for fairy spells.

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dont forget it also made those ogcds a lot clunkier since they need to wait on embrace gcd and cant be executed back to back and immediatly

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

It is when *he specifically said he wanted DPS/CC* which this expansion has given generously.[

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Pray tell, what Crowd Control has this expansion given healers? Giving away more of WHM's toys to SCH and AST in repose? Making Fluid Aura ranged while taking away the arguably more useful knockback, leaving FA a laughable 6s bind? Meanwhile we lost Heavy in Break, which is one of the more commonly used CC ailments in harder content.

The best thing ShB did for CC was let CC work on trash again for first time since 2.55, and until CC'ing adds becomes frequent in harder content frankly that benefits BLM more than any healer because their Sleep is AoE and might actually prevent a wipe if a tank dies on a huge pull (something I've done).

Does WHM do really high DPS now? Yeah. Is it interesting to do (the actual, important part)? It's a start (I'll get to Afflatus skills). A START, not an ending point. And the other healers don't have that at ALL. They, overall, lost engagement during healing downtime.

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

And a timing mechanic to optimize healing and DPS is not interesting to you? because it is to me and has added another layer to the job that does indeed make it more fun.

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I like the Afflatus skills. Having a time-gated resource that allows for double weaving, movement, and recouping DPS while healing is great. That this system bases itself in HEALING on WHM, the foremost healer lorewise, is excellent implementation of class fantasy. It's reasonably complex optimization wise because ideally you want to be using it when you need to heal, need to move, and need to double-weave. That's something to work towards, or realizing when you need to settle for 2/3 of those things depending on the fight (or knowing if/when to blow them should the boss jump).

So yeah, I like it. But it's not enough on its own. Not when the time we spend on utilizing this system plus other healing is still outnumbered GCD-wise in most content with "Dia, Glare xn." It's the beginning of a system that will allow WHM to grow now that (imo) it's GCD healing kit is full and further healing oGCD's would dilute WHM's design as a GCD based healer/using the Afflatus skills.

For an example idea, I like the idea of a several step lily system. Something like Healing Lily -> Afflatus Solace/Rapture -> Grants DPS Lily -> Enables an oGCD that upgrades next Stone/Aero/Fluid Aura -> Feed the Blood Lily -> Misery. This expands the optimization nuances the healing Afflatus skills give further, as the lily gauge grows slowly enough that you can sit on lilies until they're needed. It adds only a single button. It makes Fluid Aura potentially do something useful, and brings back upkeep of multiple DoT's with different timers (Dia and the upgraded Aero/Dia should stack).

Obviously there are other options. Further skills that use lilies (if WHM can't have offense raid buffs, defensive/resource management ones or an AoE Esuna would be fine options) are another easy idea. Some benefit, perhaps to future healing actions, gained upon finishing the lily cycle with Misery works too. WHM is supposed to mirror BLM, so give us a similar "flow" that isn't just getting a pseudo-foul maybe once per 90 seconds.

If we need to take potency nerfs for this, fine. If not, I'd expect every other job in the game to get something more as well to compensate, esp. the other healers. And ideally those changes too would be unique options, support, or just something engaging in general. Not "unga bunga, have some potency."

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Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

It's not about opposing people in it. It's about not expecting things to be absolutely perfect and taking joy in what you get and you'll be a lot happier with what you got.

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I don't believe in acting excited in receiving something sub-par. The game as a whole is great, but the job design and balance, especially for healers, has been suspect for a long time. I don't expect things to be perfect, but I do expect them to be fun. Stormblood had my main job, WHM, boring me in anything short of solo-healing an EX PUG just sloppy enough for me to carry it. Now WHM sits just barely above boring while the other two healers have plunged deep into the ocean of tedium. I'll not settle for "eh, this is fine I guess." I want to be feel like, whether I'm queuing in Savage or Expert Roulette, that I'm going to have room to improve, grow, engage, and thereby have fun on this run.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

I can’t speak for Gaethan_Tessula, but I would read his post as saying we should have more dps abilities, not bigger dps numbers. Especially considering that in the post you quoted he was responding to someone talking about how the only move WHM lost was Aero 3, and that SCH and WHM had relatively lost more.

Also, I miss the timing mechanic that allowed us to optimise healing and dps. Ffxiv has never been the same since we lost OG cleric stance. Although I realise that you mean the old “how much can I dps before my team dies” game. It’s fine. It’s why I haven’t stopped playing healer all together. But it’s less fun than what we had before.

As for being happy with what we get? How bad do you think the game would get if no one ever spoke out when something wasn’t working? We complain because we love what this game has given us in the past, and we hope that SE will hear us (if we make enough noise) and make some much needed changes. This expansion made healing less fun (WHM excepted). If we don’t let them know that this is the case, never mind fixing things, they might continue on the same trajectory and make things worse. As they have been doing ever since the aforementioned loss of OG cleric stance. If we do speak up, maybe the game gets better for everyone.

I don’t expect things to be perfect. I just expect them to be no worse than they were before. If they can’t make something better they should leave it alone. I heard one SE employee saying in an interview that they hadn’t messed much with RDM’s old kit, because they wanted to add new options, not take them away. I want that philosophy to apply to us, too.

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Pretty much summarizes my thoughts. Expansion after expansion, healers have lost downtime options. WHM even has parts of its healing kit ripped out and given to other healers or resold to us as something "new" 40 levels later. Meanwhile encounter design hasn't stressed healing kits to their max if a group is competent since ARR.

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This is what I mean about not being proud about being king/queen of the molehill: not being like Dynia and coming into every thread to mock SCH's/AST's. She talks out both sides of her mouth about how WHM needs its hella DPS while telling SCH/AST that healers should heal, and she's hardly the only vindictive WHM main I've seen do that.

We're not that far above the others. We're still one-button hero'ing except maybe 8/36 GCD's in 90 seconds (4x Dia, 3x Solace/Rapture, 1x Misery). Pray that some of the other 28 are required healing GCD's the Afflatus skills didn't cover. One bad set of nerfs and we'll be back at the bottom of the pile, with the healer role overall worse than it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Hunky

Now, to be perfectly honest, and to be somewhat of a devil's advocate, I can see why the developers and designers chose to homogenize and simplify all three healers' dps toolkits.

Giving healers a dps toolkit that is close to the complexity or depth of an actual dps job's toolkit would only add unnecessary layers of difficulty/stress.

Healers are already stressed enough with the responsibility to look after party members; giving them a dps toolkit that's more complex would make the job harder.

I think what the developers wanted to do was give each healer a dps toolkit that is simple and straightforward with no complicated mechanics. I think the idea is that healers are already dealing with enough that they shouldn't have to deal with complex mechanics/rotations for their dps output. Rather than feel pressured to optimize their dps rotations, I think they want healers to have reliable and simple dps tools to make playing easier.

Just to clarify, I don't necessarily agree with this. I just believe this is what the developers had in mind and therefore explain why things are the way they are with healers right now.

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I'm inclined to agree. The dev team has, several times, expressed dissatisfaction with how the community tends to pressure casual players to play like hardcore ones.

I think their solution is deeply flawed. Presently, a lot of DPS players slack through easy content, because there's little penalty besides time for it. I don't see why an expanded healer DPS/buff kit going unused by players who barely have a handle on healing a given instance should be any different.

That said, this reason is DEFINITELY why crowd control is so little utilized in this game. CC is very "pass/fail" and is nigh useless if it isn't required or highly recommended for an encounter, so in choosing between having a potential accessibility hurdle or just not implementing CC the devs choose the latter.

As for myself, I LIKE having responsibility. I like having varied responsibility. FF11 Red Mage and the Enhancer/Healer/Magic Control Shot-Caster I played in SMT IMAGINE are my two favorite jobs/builds I've ever played in an MMO (I liked Runescape more when Spellbook Swap could reliably be used in combat too). Given that SMT IMAGINE was an aggressively mediocre Pay-to-Win MMO besides a few cool factors (like everyone being a pet-user and putting a LOT of weight on keeping buffs/debuffs up), that says a lot.

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Originally Posted by MadeOfMush

I'd like class complexity focused on the more support side. SCH has a host of oGCDs along with the fairy and Aetherflow to manage. SCH works healing with precision and control, whereas WHM healing is more about raw healing potency. I find it legitimately fun, the problem is it only surfaces when parties are doing poorly or on big pulls in dungeons. AST has the card minigame which does need some polishing, but on its own can offer the complexity that sets it apart from other healers.

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I wouldn't really say it's all that complex. At least not as much as the old cards. You could use the old cards for different situations. The new cards basically is figuring out what seal to use to get the max aoe balance. Which truly isn't all that fun. Honestly, it doesn't need polishing, it needs to be changed. Revert it back or at least not make it to the point that AST is a balance bot.

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Originally Posted by _forgotten

Not being able to execute fairy actions while casting does remove the class uniqueness. Now we're just whm with ogcds for fairy spells.

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I really liked to be able to execute fairy actions while casting, but it was a balancing nightmare imo for the developers and way to strong. This needed to change to provide a better starting point to balance the healers.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

I really liked to be able to execute fairy actions while casting, but it was a balancing nightmare imo for the developers and way to strong. This needed to change to provide a better starting point to balance the healers.

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and now its horribly clunky and can be delayed by several seconds and things will go off after the aoes you wanted them for, it may have been a "balancing nightmare" but it worked and felt good unlike what it was replaced with

@tikiwiki
The fairy doesn't seem more clunky to me.

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Originally Posted by era1Ne

@tikiwiki
The fairy doesn't seem more clunky to me.

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theres bad delay on it now that there wasnt before

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

theres bad delay on it now that there wasnt before

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And you constantly get "Can't do that while something else is happening" errors.

It's a result of SE's terrible netcode.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And you constantly get "Can't do that while something else is happening" errors.

It's a result of SE's terrible netcode.

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I quickly realized that 2 fairy actions back to back was gonna end up with both going on cool down and only one being used. I shouldn't have to look at my tool kit and constantly ascertain if I'm using a personal skill or a fairy skill to avoid losing my abilities. Seraph can't seem to cast anything in the last 4 seconds she's out either which is frustrating. You only get 20 seconds to begin with and you just lose any ability you press right before she leaves. Scholar takes so much work to me right now. I hate using Ruin 2 to weave. Miasma 2 had a DoT that felt good to apply to weave with. Bio had a shorter duration so natural weave windows were more frequent if you kept it up. 30 secs on the DoT is so long I forget to reapply it cause I zone out hitting Broil 15+ times. I used to love healing as a Scholar but it hurts my soul right now. I hope they make some interesting changes in the next patch for SCH and Astro cause my favorite healers feel terrible to play.

Here's my thoughts on all of this.
Disclaimer: I am a healer main. 73WHM. 75SCH. 76AST. Not my main character so don't bother tryna lodestone me lol.

Very long read ahead!

WHM - Nothing to say, they are the same as always I guess. Your basic healer that got more basic WHM-y stuff and there are in a safe spot.
If I had to complain is about the Lilies, they still don't know how to work these that well? Very minor complaint...Oh and the wings at 80 are ugly lol.

SCH - Might get some heat here. I like the new SCH, I've retired SCH though in HW, where I became AST, then WHM and SCH again from the expansions of 2.0 to 5.0.
For me, I had issues with the macros not popping off and I just got tired of micromanging them. I left it 60 up until now and having a great time with it.
I personally don't care for all the missing DPS Don't kill me!
But, to remove all the DPS with no compensation sucks...bad.
Can we have more Fae related stuff or something? Ya'll killed Eos/Selene...They are legit reskins, I miss Esuna Selene. :/
Also, Fey Union is clunky as all hell. Also, also, I can't see my faerie anymore? I be running without her sometimes...please fix.

AST - Whew lad, this is a biggie, take a seat for this one team....
What have you !@(*#!@()# done to this !@()#()@! job? You guys threw this trash into 3.0 and it was a living nightmare. You take an ENTIRE expansion to fix it and it was fine in 4.0! Then you had to RUIN it here in 5.0. What is this card for all balance nonsense? Not every single one of us AST's were fishing for balance. I don't wanna go into deep details because a lot of people already mentioned how bad the card system is now...but please remove the balance card or rework it into something else.
Balance is the whole damn the problem. Make it like a ATKdown.
Bring back old cards as they are and make Spire (TP one) one of DEFdown.
I dunno, something! IT'S BORING NOW.
And my biggest problem with AST, which made me shelve it until it gets reworked
is how God awful Divination is. What IS this?
The set up for Divination is a complete nightmare, I'm serious.
You have to click 50 million buttons to get one measly 15 second balance buff with a 3 min cooldown.
I am legit, TIRED after trying to get seals, roll cards all day for the same basic ass buff. It's not fun.
You killed AST's identity and it needs to be reverted with minor changes! (Balance reworked. Spire reworked. Divination needs a shorter cooldown and changes badly.)

AST Part 2 - If people still want Balance, we can work it into Divination then.
Keep the amount of seals and then when it's set up it'll give 2/4/6% of damage.
And so that people aren't fishing for seals, make the seals gained random of every card maybe?
You also screwed us in the closest thing to a Time Mage too...Thanks a lot!
I think AST got hit the hardest here. It's not the same and please give us Ewer.
Big brother/sister WHM and SCH got more MP resources than our basic bit ONE! Thanks!

To add about the DPS thing: I also get you want healers to...heal...but you need to
make the game a wee bit harder so we don't have a lot of downtime to keep
spamming the same boring arse skills or more utility. We just want something to do.

So in closing, yeaaaaaaaah, SE really didn't do anything great for healers. It's honestly a slap in the face.
We waited so long for a new heals, just for this atrocious balancing act and this is what we get.
Good job making all the healers quit the game or just not bother anymore. We're already a dime a dozen, why screw us like this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

So in closing, yeaaaaaaaah, SE really didn't do anything great for healers. It's honestly a slap in the face.
We waited so long for a new heals, just for this atrocious balancing act and this is what we get.
Good job making all the healers quit the game or just not bother anymore. We're already a dime a dozen, why screw us like this?

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Just before the expansion launched, when the changes were annouced, I was saying to myself "I miss being excited for my job in the upcoming expansion." People responded "Wait until you play it... Stop complaining". But almost one month in since early access, it is exaclty as we thought. It looks to me that the current state of healers is probably the only shade (pun intended) in Shadowbringers. I cross my fingers for 5.05 fixes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KarnSalander

Just before the expansion launched, when the changes were annouced, I was saying to myself "I miss being excited for my job in the upcoming expansion." People responded "Wait until you play it... Stop complaining". But almost one month in since early access, it is exaclty as we thought. It looks to me that the current state of healers is probably the only shade (pun intended) in Shadowbringers. I cross my fingers for 5.05 fixes.

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"just wait for the exs"
"just wait for savage"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

"just wait for the exs"
"just wait for savage"

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"Just wait for 5.1"
"Just wait for 5.2"
Eventually it just turns into "wait until the next expansion"