New Instanced Raids (03/07/2012)

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but it was my impression that most people didn't like the timed aspect of the previous dungeons. I sure hope they reduced the amount of regular monsters they placed throughout the dungeon because I don't plan on participating in the trainfest that was Darkhold again.

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I'm pefectly fine with instances being timed, the way darkhold was done was just poor design since there was no need or reason to kill most any mob besides the bosses.
They could either make mobs in dungeons not leesh (like for example WoW does with trash mobs in instances) and/or have certain parts of dungeon require mobs to defeated to enter (like the gates in strongholds).

Don't be too surprised if the new instances until 2.0 follow the exact Darkhold/totorak formula however.

At 0:41 the Mnk is under Hundred Fists, the skill last 15 secs for 15 min recast.

Skill bar 1, skill 7 is Sap (or a completly new skill which would mean Sap has been deleted => seems unlikely)
Skill bar 2, skill 5 is Dragon Kick
Skill bar 3, skill 6 is Hundred Fists
Skill bar 3, skill 7 is Kick
Skill bar 3, skill 10 is Fists of Wind

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

dont know if anyone replied but since in the job announcement they said you get 5 i assume its 5, and I assume the monk ability is a new animation for pounce

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Its different icon than Pounce, has different cooldown, and doesnt use TP (actually gains TP). Very curious what it is!

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Originally Posted by Lyn

At 0:41 the Mnk is under Hundred Fists, the skill last 15 secs for 15 min recast.

Skill bar 1, skill 7 is Sap (or a completly new skill which would mean Sap has been deleted => seems unlikely)
Skill bar 2, skill 5 is Dragon Kick
Skill bar 3, skill 6 is Hundred Fists
Skill bar 3, skill 7 is Kick
Skill bar 3, skill 10 is Fists of Wind

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Hrmm, Sap is what he uses when he dashes in. That seems quite contrary to the description. They must've changed it.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I knew the trolls were in here somewhere.. they were all asleep :O

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Well the white knights need something to defend against huh ?

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Originally Posted by Choyi

I'm pefectly fine with instances being timed, the way darkhold was done was just poor design since there was no need or reason to kill most any mob besides the bosses.
They could either make mobs in dungeons not leesh (like for example WoW does with trash mobs in instances) and/or have certain parts of dungeon require mobs to defeated to enter (like the gates in strongholds).

Don't be too surprised if the new instances until 2.0 follow the exact Darkhold/totorak formula however.

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I think the timed aspect is pointless, I would rather take my time and kill everything in an instance, plus it would be a nice alternative for level 45's to go in and XP off the trash.

I would like to see dungeon bosses have no leesh like you say above, that way people would be forced to kill the trash that at least aggros them.

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Originally Posted by Lyn

Skill bar 3, skill 10 is Fists of Wind

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Sure do hope your wrong about this..

Making Fist of Wind a Job only skill would be a Severe Gimp to the PGL class.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Sure do hope your wrong about this..

Making Fist of Wind a Job only skill would be a Severe Gimp to the PGL class.

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Or it would make the MNK more appealing to play as which is what they're supposed to do?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I think the timed aspect is pointless, I would rather take my time and kill everything in an instance, plus it would be a nice alternative for level 45's to go in and XP off the trash.

I would like to see dungeon bosses have no leesh like you say above, that way people would be forced to kill the trash that at least aggros them.

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100% with Jinko on this one. Getting Sick of SE trying to tell us running through a Dungeon as fast as possible without seeing or doing anything is a challenge.

Other than that, it looks like fun.

Can't wait to see the second dungeon. (dragons aery?)

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Originally Posted by Colino

Or it would make the MNK more appealing to play as which is what they're supposed to do?

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No, Jobs are supposed to make you more effective in a party, not more appealing to play. If there is one thing PGL should have at it's disposal, it's all of it elemental stances. Take anything else, but not that.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Hrmm, Sap is what he uses when he dashes in. That seems quite contrary to the description. They must've changed it.

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I guess so, these are the only Monk skills he has.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Sure do hope your wrong about this..

Making Fist of Wind a Job only skill would be a Severe Gimp to the PGL class.

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What do you mean ? PGL only have Fists of Fire and Fists of Earth and that news clearly state Fists of Wind is a Monk ability : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764
Look for PGL abl 5 and 6 and compare them to MNK abl 4 ^^

I'm just waiting for the "Omg Chimera mount can I have it????" cries.

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Originally Posted by Lyn

I guess so, these are the only Monk skills he has.



What do you mean ? PGL only have Fists of Fire and Fists of Earth and that news clearly state Fists of Wind is a Monk ability : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764
Look for PGL abl 5 and 6 and compare them to MNK abl 4 ^^

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That is Highly unfortunate.

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Originally Posted by DyskoFox

I'm just waiting for the "Omg Chimera mount can I have it????" cries.

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im innocent i swear

Scrap the time limits already SE...

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Originally Posted by neizero

Scrap the time limits already SE...

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Yeah honestly... When the whole challenge is doing speedruns and stuff it starts to get real boring... Make the content HARD and remove the damn timer so we can challenge it at our own pace.

I mean when the most effective way of doing a dungeon is skipping 90% of the mobs... What's the point in putting them there?

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Originally Posted by Galadrios

I almost came...

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...fused-7263.gif

Looks like the party got split apart at one point in the video. I wonder if we have to clear some of the dungeon in two groups.

i saw that 15 min cooldown on monk, i was hoping they would only be 5-10 mins, hope they're worth it.

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Looks like the party got split apart at one point in the video. I wonder if we have to clear some of the dungeon in two groups.

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if you read the text for the vid it says you have to work close with your party because of the quick sand. Im guessing you wanna avoid splitting up.

Dungeon looks fun! Really nice video =D I hope they do away with the timer thing ; ;

The vid was to show off the dungeon not the job abilities, so it would be logical for the dev playing the MNK to have to run back to show that chimera has draw in, it could have been lucky timing so when he was drawn in it was time for an AA.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The vid was to show off the dungeon not the job abilities, so it would be logical for the dev playing the MNK to have to run back to show that chimera has draw in, it could have been lucky timing so when he was drawn in it was time for an AA.

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Hes selecting an executing an ability though. He also does it against the ant boss

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Originally Posted by Delsus

The vid was to show off the dungeon not the job abilities, so it would be logical for the dev playing the MNK to have to run back to show that chimera has draw in, it could have been lucky timing so when he was drawn in it was time for an AA.

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Nah that charge is definitely a monk ability. You can see that his charge did 140 damage to the ant boss and gave him tp.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Dungeon looks fun! Really nice video =D I hope they do away with the timer thing ; ;

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In darkhold the problem wasnt the timers, it was that there were way too many mobs to possibly get to batraal and kill them all, it was just poor implementation.

You can have timers and fun at the same time, timers when used with a well designed dungeon ensure you keep up the dps throughout.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

In darkhold the problem wasnt the timers, it was that there were way too many mobs to possibly get to batraal and kill them all, it was just poor implementation.

You can have timers and fun at the same time, timers when used with a well designed dungeon ensure you keep up the dps throughout.

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before the nerf those moles were so frikken hard,lol.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

In darkhold the problem wasnt the timers, it was that there were way too many mobs to possibly get to batraal and kill them all, it was just poor implementation.

You can have timers and fun at the same time, timers when used with a well designed dungeon ensure you keep up the dps throughout.

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Time limits just limit what you can do in the dungeon. A LOT of runs for darkhold and the first couple of tries at primals have been an automatic loss even though we were winning. The time ran out and we "lost".

The video looks good. I don't care about the look of the dungeon, it looks good to me. It's what I'd imagine an undergound dungeon to look like in Thanalan. The mobs I understand too since we don't have that much diversity in Thanalan anyways. Mini boss looks like a lot of crowd control going on with little ants. Big boss looks like he may be easy at first but he hits hard like a truck.

Definately either sap with an added ability or a totally new ability for pugilist.

Oh and take notes mother f****rs, QUIT CLASS STACKING

It's probably been said already, but they just used the battle version of the dungeon theme to show things off. Its the same dynamic theme used in Totorak and Darkhold as well. They might use a new theme for the next one, or they could use the same since it seems to be the timed dungeon theme.

Aren't they changing the dungeons in 2.0?

I wonder if they just threw in Chimera for a cool final boss fight for us playing before 2.0. I highly doubt they had a underground desert battle in mind for Chimera....

Most of you missed what looks to be a situation where when you take the quicksand ports that it appears you don't end up in the same place or the party has to split up.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

Aren't they changing the dungeons in 2.0?

I wonder if they just threw in Chimera for a cool final boss fight for us playing before 2.0. I highly doubt they had a underground desert battle in mind for Chimera....

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Arent Chimera and Manticore usually in the desert/sand/pyramid themed dungeons?

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Time limits just limit what you can do in the dungeon. A LOT of runs for darkhold and the first couple of tries at primals have been an automatic loss even though we were winning. The time ran out and we "lost".

The video looks good. I don't care about the look of the dungeon, it looks good to me. It's what I'd imagine an undergound dungeon to look like in Thanalan. The mobs I understand too since we don't have that much diversity in Thanalan anyways. Mini boss looks like a lot of crowd control going on with little ants. Big boss looks like he may be easy at first but he hits hard like a truck.

Definately either sap with an added ability or a totally new ability for pugilist.

They use a real diverse party, I'd like to try it that way

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fixed it for you

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Time limits just limit what you can do in the dungeon. A LOT of runs for darkhold and the first couple of tries at primals have been an automatic loss even though we were winning. The time ran out and we "lost".

The video looks good. I don't care about the look of the dungeon, it looks good to me. It's what I'd imagine an undergound dungeon to look like in Thanalan. The mobs I understand too since we don't have that much diversity in Thanalan anyways. Mini boss looks like a lot of crowd control going on with little ants. Big boss looks like he may be easy at first but he hits hard like a truck.

Definately either sap with an added ability or a totally new ability for pugilist.

Oh and take notes mother f****rs, QUIT CLASS STACKING

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It depends how the dungeons are made, look at FFXI and dynamis, limbus, einherjar and nyzul.

Dynamis and limbus you had plenty of time to kill the bosses and farm in the time you had as long as you knew how to pull them, alot of stratagy was needed, Einherjar and nyzul, time was very tight and you had to keep up dps to get through in the time limit, and with the hard pulls and some objectives you had to know exactly what you are doing.

If you take the time limits away you can just charge through not care how you pull because as long as you kill one mob before a wipe on every pull (extreme example) you can still get through and win, whereas with a time limit you need to pull carefully knowing that every wipe costs valuble time.

About the first couple of tries at DH and primals being losses because you timed out, thats the key, you have to know how to do them in time its all about stratagy, we found out how to do DH and primals and we rarely time out on em now, while DH wasnt what we wanted it was the stratagy that worked.

But we atleast agree on one thing QUIT CLASS STACKING!!!

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Originally Posted by Laf

So,

a) 1 unique mob
b) all other mobs are copy pasted
c) whole dungeon is copy pasted

some enormous efforts over here

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This sums it up for me

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Originally Posted by Delsus

It depends how the dungeons are made, ....

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I don't know, I think SE can find a happy medium between timed and untimed content. I mean look at Shosphea... it's a great dungeon and has no time limit. You have a puzzle (ish) you have to solve to release the boss.

I mean I don't hate time limits, but a lot of times it becomes a nuisance -_-

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

This sums it up for me

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Right lets have all new mobs and all new zones for every patch, hell lets make every patch 5GB with our crappy patcher just to add these.

Rule of thumb the largest parts of games are zones, if they add new zones in patches your patch sizes would be huge.

Most MMOs reuse/reskin zones in patches and save the completly new zones for expansions which can be released on DVD or digital download using decent servers. If new zones were in the patches you would see some people having problems with a slow patcher (even when port forwarding doesnt work or when it is not an option) sitting there for hours, if its going paticularly slow even days because the sizes would be in the GBs

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Arent Chimera and Manticore usually in the desert/sand/pyramid themed dungeons?

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yes they are

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I don't know, I think SE can find a happy medium between timed and untimed content. I mean look at Shosphea... it's a great dungeon and has no time limit. You have a puzzle (ish) you have to solve to release the boss.

I mean I don't hate time limits, but a lot of times it becomes a nuisance -_-

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Cough...cough Strongholds...cough...cough.

http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/1-chimera-a.jpg

Well deserts and tower dungeons apparently.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

This sums it up for me

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Wasnt that one of the areas that was already in game and just needed to be unlocked/finished for players? Also maybe the area complaints I can understand, but what did you expect for an underground dungeon in the desert? Ants and maybe a nest commander that what.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/1-chimera-a.jpg

Well deserts and tower dungeons apparently.



Wasnt that one of the areas that was already in game and just needed to be unlocked/finished for players? Also maybe the area complaints I can understand, but what did you expect for an underground dungeon in the desert? Ants and maybe a nest commander that what.

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Those wings seem a little too small to carry that beast through he sky....

Anyway, to the person who said it's a bunch of copy paste (Laf?): have you ever designed a game in your life? do you really think constructing such a dungeon can be reduced to a two step copy paste function that you are or so familiar with? Really??? Get a grip.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

If you take the time limits away you can just charge through not care how you pull because as long as you kill one mob before a wipe on every pull (extreme example) you can still get through and win, whereas with a time limit you need to pull carefully knowing that every wipe costs valuble time.

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I agree. Keep the time limits!