Hoarding Houses - Sometimes a Depressing Sight (a rant)

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

So now that we know that FC houses have a higher value on the house trading market, suffer no restriction other than how many characters you have on a specific server and that the requirements to obtain one are much more lower than the personal houses, why would anyone keep extra personal houses other than for bragging rights? As mentioned above, grandfathered characters cannot purchase more personal houses than what they already have, they can only lose them.

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How does this mean grandfathered plots are dropping, and I quote you, "every week"? Literally nothing you have said here states how they drop every week. This is just you saying "well they can't sell the personal houses, so why would they keep them?". Just like how you don't know how many grandfathered plots actually do drop in any given space of time, you also do not know the personal reasons why grandfathered players hang on to their plots. At best you can guess.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Whether it's because they sold it to another player/FC or through auto-demolition, the amount of grandfathered personal plots logically goes down every week due to players leaving the game and the lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses.

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I see so what you're actually saying is "grandfathered plots become free sometimes". Absolutely nothing here suggests that it would have to be every week. Literally zero.

And what is this "lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses"? I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses. Have you suddenly decided that this isn't an incentive just to suit your argument? Have you now decided that pair on Mateus are actually real estate agents instead of people who actually enjoy owning many houses? Well at least you admitted that bragging rights is a possible incentive.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Since we've gotten to the personal insults phase of the internet "discussion", ill keep this brief. I disagree. And allow me to apologize for misinterpreting the reason you made your post. In a thread where people were discussing house hoarding, housing shortages, and potential solutions i incorrectly thought that yours was more then just a post complaining about the current system, and was instead one about solutions.

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All of my posts in this thread have been about how housing ownership should have limitations. Just because you already had ideas in your head about how the discussion would go and decided to address all those things while obviously ignoring what I was actually saying is no ones fault but your own.

I made my point clear. Trying to brush it off as ' just complaining ' when I'm actually standing up for people who aren't as privileged as whoever it is you know just goes to show that me calling hoarders selfish isn't that far from the mark. Even when defending them, showing how self-centered you have to be to do so is effortless.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

How does this mean grandfathered plots are dropping, and I quote you, "every week"? Literally nothing you have said here states how they drop every week. This is just you saying "well they can't sell the personal houses, so why would they keep them?". Just like how you don't know how many grandfathered plots actually do drop in any given space of time, you also do not know the personal reasons why grandfathered players hang on to their plots. At best you can guess.



I see so what you're actually saying is "grandfathered plots become free sometimes". Absolutely nothing here suggests that it would have to be every week. Literally zero.

And what is this "lack of incentive to keep extra personal houses"? I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses. Have you suddenly decided that this isn't an incentive just to suit your argument? Have you now decided that pair on Mateus are actually real estate agents instead of people who actually enjoy owning many houses? Well at least you admitted that bragging rights is a possible incentive.

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Love how you miss the point every single time. Why do you care about grandfathered houses when you don't even need to be grandfathered in order to own more than 1 house? You've been barking at the wrong tree this entire thread. Now you're just all over the place trying to tell me that the actual amount of grandfathered houses doesn't go down.

I know housing way better than you do, just look a few posts up. I can tell you that I own more non grandfathered houses in the Mist than the amount of grandfathered houses left in that specific housing area on my server at this point. The % of players with more than 1 personal houses before 4.2 was already low and let's argue that half of those were intended for resell. Well guess what, these plots have been sold since then. Now you're left with the other half of an already small % of houses that are grandfathered. It's been nearly a year since 4.2. Players have move to different servers, stopped playing, got rid of their extra home because of X reason. Chop that number in half and you end up with a handful of people left with more than 1 personal houses.

There was 2 880 plots per server before 4.2. Let's say a very generous 10% of the houses were owned by players that already had a personal house. So 288 houses. Patch 4.2 increased the amount of plots by 50% and now sits at 4 320. Remove half of the 288 grandfathered plots that were only kept for resell purposes. 144. Remove the other half that have let go of their plots for various other reasons, 72. Barely a full ward... out of the 72 wards available. You're getting pretty close to 1% of houses being owned by grandfathered players.

More houses are auto-demolished every month on Gilgamesh compared to the total amount of grandfathered personal houses. But hey, I don't see you complain about all those people who do absolutely nothing with their house for 45 days. Do you think it's okay to have more than an entire ward in limbo all year long on a populated server?

Finally, since you seem so picky about the words I use...

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses.

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Show me the posts in this thread where players have come out to talk about their 3/7/15 decorated houses. They don't seem to exist ;) ;)

http://i63.tinypic.com/23linoo.png

Reading this thread and chuckling. Don't waste your breath arguing with a true hoarder. They always have a "valid" reason in their mind and you will get frustrated dealing with them.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Love how you miss the point every single time. Why do you care about grandfathered houses when you don't even need to be grandfathered in order to own more than 1 house? You've been barking at the wrong tree this entire thread. Now you're just all over the place trying to tell me that the actual amount of grandfathered houses doesn't go down.

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And you miss the question, again. I have asked you how do you know that grandfathered plots drop "every week" on all servers? And all you can say is "well they can't sell them and sometimes they quit playing so they must". Absolutely nothing about your answer suggested even a vaguely descriptive timeframe.

You can say all you like about me barking up the wrong tree, but at least when I am shown that I am wrong I respectfully admit it, whereas you literally pull "facts" out of the air, and borderline laugh at me for not just assuming you're correct. There is absolutely no way you could know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week. There is no way you could know something so specific about housing unless you worked for SE.

And because you somehow missed it again and again:

The problem with grandfathered houses is that it means there is less of a limited resource to be evenly distributed among players. You don't have to agree the removal of anything to understand the problem. You don't have to agree with me to understand basic math. Many people here who have disagreed with me are in this mindset, and would prefer a different solution than to remove anything from anyone. They didn't make up things like "grandfathered plots are being demolished every week" to argue their point.

I suspect you are so hostile at the idea that grandfathered plots could be anything resembling a problem because you don't want people to draw comparisons with you and your 27 ungrandfathered plots. So then you resort to literally making things up to draw attention away from this. I regret to inform you that I am not fooled.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

More houses are auto-demolished every month on Gilgamesh

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You seem to not realise that not every server is a carbon copy of Gligamesh. Just because the housing situation is in a certain way there does not make it the same elsewhere. If you knew about housing as much as you like to harp on, you would know that it can vary a lot from one server to another.

I'm going to block you now. I thank you for the updated information regarding how many fc plots can now be bought on a server, but I have little interest in engaging with someone who conjures up facts. I have better things to do than that. I am informing you to give you the opportunity to not waste your time debating with someone who has no interest in reading your future posts.

I realise that this is going to make people laugh at me, but honestly I'd rather continue the debate with literally anyone else in this thread than have to read anything more that MaybeOliverB has to say.

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Originally Posted by Besame

Reading this thread and chuckling. Don't waste your breath arguing with a true hoarder. They always have a "valid" reason in their mind and you will get frustrated dealing with them.

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Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And you miss the question, again. I have asked you how do you know that grandfathered plots drop "every week" on all servers? And all you can say is "well they can't sell them and sometimes they quit playing so they must". Absolutely nothing about your answer suggested even a vaguely descriptive timeframe.

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Sorry but I did answer that question, you simply refuse to read it. You didn't even try to challenge my numbers.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You can say all you like about me barking up the wrong tree, but at least when I am shown that I am wrong I respectfully admit it, whereas you literally pull "facts" out of the air, and borderline laugh at me for not just assuming you're correct. There is absolutely no way you could know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week. There is no way you could know something so specific about housing unless you worked for SE.

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No you aren't. You can't even back that statement up:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I can't even begin to count how many times in this thread I have been told about people who lovingly decorated their 3/7/15/etc houses.

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Probably because these posts don't even exist to begin with. You don't need to work for Square Enix to know your neighbors or you know, maybe you really don't put in as much effort regarding housing as you would like to think ;).

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And because you somehow missed it again and again:

The problem with grandfathered houses is that it means there is less of a limited resource to be evenly distributed among players. You don't have to agree the removal of anything to understand the problem. You don't have to agree with me to understand basic math. Many people here who have disagreed with me are in this mindset, and would prefer a different solution than to remove anything from anyone. They didn't make up things like "grandfathered plots are being demolished every week" to argue their point.

I suspect you are so hostile at the idea that grandfathered plots could be anything resembling a problem because you don't want people to draw comparisons with you and your 27 ungrandfathered plots. So then you resort to literally making things up to draw attention away from this. I regret to inform you that I am not fooled.

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I have not made a single comment on solutions to the lack of plots. All I'm saying is that you are complaining about grandfathered players when non-grandfathered players can obtain more houses than grandfathered players have. Somehow, you cannot grasp that concept. I have no one to defend but myself, I just wonder why people like you are wasting their time complaining about players with 2-3 houses, when any player can acquire up to 9 houses on a specific server with the ongoing restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You seem to not realise that not every server is a carbon copy of Gligamesh. Just because the housing situation is in a certain way there does not make it the same elsewhere. If you knew about housing as much as you like to harp on, you would know that it can vary a lot from one server to another.

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You are correct, Moogle was never locked down for nearly a year due to the high population. Thanks for reminding other readers that housing on congested servers is a lot more difficult to acquire than on servers like Moogle.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm going to block you now. I thank you for the updated information regarding how many fc plots can now be bought on a server, but I have little interest in engaging with someone who conjures up facts. I have better things to do than that. I am informing you to give you the opportunity to not waste your time debating with someone who has no interest in reading your future posts.

I realise that this is going to make people laugh at me, but honestly I'd rather continue the debate with literally anyone else in this thread than have to read anything more that MaybeOliverB has to say.

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One could say that you've been the one conjuring up facts all along. You got proven wrong once, now twice. I'll be here.

This is becoming a farce in a way, standpoint still sticks with removal of grandfathering or deporting all multiple house owners to a server their own, to free up the servers they reside some more, or given the option to to transfer all for free or the likes.... or just SE stepping in revoking the grandfathering giving the players a choice with a patch that they can keep 1 house +1 FC house, wont be bad PR either really, and hey if SE can up the visible item limit for houses when inside would be nice too now when they are at it :)

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Why do you people even care about grandfathered houses? Don't you understand that the actual amount of grandfathered houses is pretty much meaningless and it keeps going down every week? It makes no sense to complain about a small minority of players owning more than 1 personal house when you can have 8 FC houses, with a lvl 1 character as the leader and unique member, since the restriction does not apply to FCs anymore.

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Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

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You won't get a source for it because there is none that they can provide. I didn't read their last post because I have them blocked now, but other times they answered this it was little more than napkin math based on their personal experience on only one server along with conveniently overlooking anything that contested their claim.

The only ones who know how many grandfathered plots are demolished every week are SE. I seriously doubt MaybeOliverB works for SE.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

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I don't know if you know this, but SE have quietly lifted the purchase restrictions on fc houses, so now the current limit is one private home and eight fc houses. A few posts ago MaybeOliverB informed me of this. SE's information about this on the lodestone is out of date. I suppose they quietly lifted it because they didn't want to encourage players to start hoarding again.

So I don't know if you mean the purchase restriction should be reduced back to what it was at 4.2, or if you were unaware that it was lifted.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

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The data centre splits makes me both hopeful and concerned. It does mean that many players who leave crowded servers will finally have a chance to get a house elsewhere, but this doesn't mean each will be a success story. I expect to see posts from people saying things like "I thought I would have the chance to get a house on <server> but all the wards are full and I can't transfer for a few days while the empty plots elsewhere are being bought. I'll never get a house." and "I left my house behind to go to the same data centre as my friends and the server I moved to has no plots left". We already saw similar happen before with the first free transfers. It's one of the primary reasons why those two players on Mateus became so controversial.

The only way SE could mitigate this without changing the system is if they bring in more wards at the same time, but as far as I recall they did not mention the intention to do so before 5.0. Of course they can at 5.0 but that's several months after 4.5.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You won't get a source for it because there is none that they can provide. I didn't read their last post because I have them blocked now, but other times they answered this it was little more than napkin math based on their personal experience on only one server along with conveniently overlooking anything that contested their claim.

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Grandfathered houses are houses which, once lost, may not be repurchased by their original owners since the rules no longer allow those purchases. Therefore, the number of grandfathered houses can only ever go down. While the owners of these homes are almost certainly very active and attentive toward our demo timers, one by one, we will quit, make mistakes in our login rituals, fall prey to bugs, or have RL interventions that will reclaim the land. No one can make claims as to the rate that's happening, but I'd guarantee this time next year there will be fewer grandfathered houses than there currently are. I think that's the logic being employed here, and the "napkin math" you eschew is only intended to give example numbers.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The data centre splits makes me both hopeful and concerned. It does mean that many players who leave crowded servers will finally have a chance to get a house elsewhere, but this doesn't mean each will be a success story. I expect to see posts from people saying things like "I thought I would have the chance to get a house on <server> but all the wards are full and I can't transfer for a few days while the empty plots elsewhere are being bought. I'll never get a house." and "I left my house behind to go to the same data centre as my friends and the server I moved to has no plots left". We already saw similar happen before with the first free transfers. It's one of the primary reasons why those two players on Mateus became so controversial.

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I would hope any player for whom housing is so big a draw that it's their primary reason for considering a server switch would plan ahead. They should make an alt, stake out the wards, and find a couple of open plots they're interested in. They should form their FC ahead of time to push it to rank 6 with a few like-minded friends to prevent the weeks-later housing crunch that happened on Mateus; leveling some alts through the MSQ on a preferred server doesn't take long and nets a silly amount of FC leveling credit. And of course, they should be in money-making mode now if they don't already have the funds.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

Grandfathered houses are houses which, once lost, may not be repurchased by their original owners since the rules no longer allow those purchases. Therefore, the number of grandfathered houses can only ever go down. While the owners of these homes are almost certainly very active and attentive toward our demo timers, one by one, we will quit, make mistakes in our login rituals, fall prey to bugs, or have RL interventions that will reclaim the land.

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You're not entirely correct. While the number of grandfathered houses can never increase this does not mean they can only decrease. Yes people do make mistakes, life can get in the way, the game has bugs and people do quit, but this doesn't mean that all grandfathered players will eventually be careless, unfortunate, or will quit the game before the servers shut down forever. It is possible we will hit a point in which their number of plots will completely stop dropping before they're all gone.

Certainly I expect that pair on Mateus, who own an entire ward, intend to keep it right up until FFXIV shuts down forever. They put in far too much time and effort to let easily remedied carelessness take away any of their houses. If they remain diligent with resetting timers then only bugs, very unfortunate life circumstances or direct intervention by SE can remove their houses.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

I would hope any player for whom housing is so big a draw that it's their primary reason for considering a server switch would plan ahead. They should make an alt, stake out the wards, and find a couple of open plots they're interested in. They should form their FC ahead of time to push it to rank 6 with a few like-minded friends to prevent the weeks-later housing crunch that happened on Mateus; leveling some alts through the MSQ on a preferred server doesn't take long and nets a silly amount of FC leveling credit. And of course, they should be in money-making mode now if they don't already have the funds.

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I completely agree that anyone even just thinking about leaving their current server should already be doing as much research and preparation as possible.

But sadly all the prep and research won't make someone immune to bad luck. You could unknowingly go to a server where a large amount of players also went to. You could get denied access to the game because of login queues, dcs, lobby errors, or just waiting for your character to be transferred. Or you could be defeated by the simple fact that you do not have a SSD, so your slower load times allow others to get ahead.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Based on what data do you see the amount of grandfathered houses going down? I would certainly like to see the link or source you got it from, ty.

And that minority of players, may own 5 to 20+ houses FC/Private which is a problem when servers start to fill up, and they do, that IS what is causing the problem, just because it is not such an active problem on own server, does not mean that I can't have an opinion about the issue.

Personally I would be ok with someone owning 20 houses under one condition, and that is you pay for 10 subscriptions and have 1 personal house and 1 FC house on each.

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Based on common sense. If you still think there are grandfathered FC houses at this point or that grandfathered personal houses are a problem, I suggest reading my posts again.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Certainly I expect that pair on Mateus, who own an entire ward, intend to keep it right up until FFXIV shuts down forever. They put in far too much time and effort to let easily remedied carelessness take away any of their houses. If they remain diligent with resetting timers then only bugs, very unfortunate life circumstances or direct intervention by SE can remove their houses.

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I must confess I find your fixation on this one case strange considering the context of your OP, which is about depressing, pointless hoarding of barren plots of land with little to no interior or exterior decoration. That's not what was done there.

Regardless, as has been mentioned in many other replies... When a thousand people want a house, removing 14 (in that case, at least) isn't going to solve any problems. SE knows this, and that's why they've left things as they are.

What we should be doing, if the goal is truly to ensure everyone has enough rather than to take from those who got too much under different rules, is to focus on pushing for a system that will provide for everyone. If I may quote myself:

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

The solution truly is to provide instanced housing for those who want them. If we can have 200 pieces of data for a glamour chest, we should be able to have 200 pieces of data *tied to the character* for furnishings in a personal home.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

I must confess I find your fixation on this one case strange considering the context of your OP, which is about depressing, pointless hoarding of barren plots of land with little to no interior or exterior decoration. That's not what was done there.

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It is because the Mateus situation is a fine example of how hoarding houses not only got very silly before SE stepped in, but also shows the impact a small amount of people can have on a far larger group. They also served as an example that saying that grandfathered plots can only ever decrease is wishful thinking. I think most of us will be surprised if those two on Mateus let their plots go of their own accord. The number of grandfathered plots may be falling, but as long as the system stays as it is we are never guaranteed that number will fall to zero. We aren't even guaranteed that it will fall below the current number.

As I said before I am more willing to be understanding with hoarders who actually do decorate, but this likely means little to someone who doesn't have a house at all. The presence or absence of decoration doesn't change much for someone who has no house.

One of my points with my first post is that grandfathering increases the likelihood of a waste of limited content. While everyone is free to do nothing with their houses, surely it's better when more individual players have this choice? Surely it's in SE's interests to increase how many people content serves without having to spend a lot of money by making more wards?

Honestly I'd be more lenient towards grandfathering in general if plot sizes didn't exist. If we instead had a system in which you bought a plot and you put a house size of your choice on the land, and could replace the house at any time. It would mean that no one would be stuck in a cottage if they need or want bigger a house, which would mean the negative impact of grandfathered plots would be smaller.

I probably wouldn't have bothered to make this thread if we had that system instead, as one of my gripes with the person I mentioned in my first post is that the grandfathered player has several unused medium houses and a mansion, while there are active fcs stuck in cottages.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

Regardless, as has been mentioned in many other replies... When a thousand people want a house, removing 14 (in that case, at least) isn't going to solve any problems. SE knows this, and that's why they've left things as they are.

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Removing the houses from those two players on Mateus alone frees up most of a ward. That's potentially over one hundred people deprived of housing because of two players. I'm pretty sure those people would disagree with you when you say removing grandfathering won't solve any problems.

True it doesn't solve the actual heart of the problem, but as I said before SE seemed disinclined to tackle housing in a manner which would ensure equal fairness and opportunities to every player. They only want to tweak. I hope 5.0 will break this cycle. I want my cynicism towards SE's stance on housing to be proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

What we should be doing, if the goal is truly to ensure everyone has enough rather than to take from those who got too much under different rules, is to focus on pushing for a system that will provide for everyone.

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Ah, this again. So many here are happy to tell me what I or we should be doing instead, but I don't see them making a thread to contest my own. Would it not make more sense to let my thread die and then have the forum activity here go to a different thread presenting what you consider to be a better solution, rather than keep bumping a thread you strongly disagree with?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Ah, this again. So many here are happy to tell me what I or we should be doing instead, but I don't see them making a thread to contest my own. Would it not make more sense to let my thread die and then have the forum activity here go to a different thread presenting what you consider to be a better solution, rather than keep bumping a thread you strongly disagree with?

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Are you implying a public forum is a place where threads full of people who agree with each other compete for which universally-agreed-upon (within the thread) idea gets the top spot and therefore the most attention? That each thread should be filled with "Yes, this is what I think too" and "/signed" and "SE please do this" only? That's not how any of this works. People discuss because their ideas differ. That this thread has so many replies shows only that it's a hotly debated topic with a lot of passion on all sides that SE needs to tread very carefully with, not that we think your OP is the best idea we have.

Let me ask, since twice now that it's been brought up we've ended up on this "if you disagree, stop talking" thing - are you opposed to instanced housing as a solution? What are the cons to such a system that make you believe removing grandfathered personals would be better for the health of housing in general?

Just so we're on the same page, I mean one single plot with a yard that could be bought by many players - each player, upon approaching the area, would see their own plot set up in front of them or, if they don't own it, either a blank parcel of land or a random home. Players could visit each other's instanced homes by using subcommands (that is, right click on a party member while within the borders and click some "visit home" option) or by selecting players from a list of those who own that bit of land. There could even be multiple sites or sizes for this system, so one player could buy the Ishgard plot while another could buy the one in Rhalgr's Reach and still another could get one in the Doman Enclave, but each individual plot could have hundreds of owners.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

Are you implying a public forum is a place where threads full of people who agree with each other compete for which universally-agreed-upon (within the thread) idea gets the top spot and therefore the most attention? That each thread should be filled with "Yes, this is what I think too" and "/signed" and "SE please do this" only?

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No I didn't say this at all. I'm merely pointing out that I keep being told what I/we should be doing by people who don't really seem to be doing it. It appears people are more interested in banding together to tell me that I'm wrong, rather than band together to tell SE that they are wrong. Even though they keep saying we should be doing the latter.

SE would be more likely to pay attention to a strong thread where everyone is unified in their demand for something, rather than a thread like this where we are at odds. My thread is obviously failing at the unity, so then would it not make sense for the larger opposition to present their ideas in its own thread so it will be more likely to get attention? Let the thread with the bad ideas die, and let the one with the good ideas flourish?

Or do you somehow think bumping a thread you disagree with is better than creating a thread that you think would have a more positive impact on the game? You appear to be a reasonable person, so I doubt this.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

Let me ask, since twice now that it's been brought up we've ended up on this "if you disagree, stop talking" thing - are you opposed to instanced housing as a solution? What are the cons to such a system that make you believe removing grandfathered personals would be better for the health of housing in general?

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No, if you read my first post you would see at the end I say that I want one of two solutions, but people here keep debating with me as if I only brought up one. It seems I hit some nerves and it has made people decide I want one thing. I would far prefer instanced housing for a lot of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with grandfathered housing.

The main con with instanced housing is the likelihood of SE giving it to us. You can't deny that SE's history with housing shows us they want to do little other than tweak the current system. Furthermore they have so far only given us substantial positive changes to housing after the community unified in a gigantic wave of discontent, and this was after literal years of ignoring the multitude of complaints, warnings and foreshadowing the players gave them.

They were equipped with everything they needed to know to see that the Shirogane launch would be a disaster, but they launched it anyway without bringing in changes that would have greatly mitigated its ill-fated introduction to the game. When it comes to housing SE simply do not care unless enough people complain at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Harmonea

Just so we're on the same page, I mean one single plot with a yard that could be bought by many players - each player, upon approaching the area, would see their own plot set up in front of them or, if they don't own it, either a blank parcel of land or a random home. Players could visit each other's instanced homes by using subcommands (that is, right click on a party member while within the borders and click some "visit home" option) or by selecting players from a list of those who own that bit of land. There could even be multiple sites or sizes for this system, so one player could buy the Ishgard plot while another could buy the one in Rhalgr's Reach and still another could get one in the Doman Enclave, but each individual plot could have hundreds of owners.

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This system would be far better than what we have now. I love the idea of having more options for areas to live in as well. Though I do wonder what would get displayed if your house and fc home occupy the same area. I also note the possible absence of neighbourhoods, which is something people do enjoy with the current ward system.

I would like what I call micro wards. These are small instances you could purchase and in there one or several houses can be built. I envision you would select the one you would like to visit in the same manner that you would select an apartment to visit. Fcs, rp communities, a bunch of friends, or even a house hoarder could create their own little neighbourhoods, or players could have just one house if they wish. This would mean we wouldn't lose the neighbourhood feel of wards, but wouldn't be shackled by the limitations of them either.

But sadly I don't think your or my idea is likely given SE's history with housing so far.

Dude I feel your pain. We have one person who grandfathered in and has almost 30 plots, including most of an entire ward in LB...so far....just under that one tag. It's.....so disheartening. Apparently even though we pay a sub and pay our dues and level our characters and learn to make gil, it's still not enough, and will never be enough, because someone who played at the beginning's gameplay experience is more important than that of an entire server. And if you think that number is small and shouldn't be that big of a deal, it is a big deal. And they aren't the only ones. There are multiple, multiple people who bend the rules with FC housing. I met someone who had 5 mediums, and 4 kugane houses! They said there's an entire linkshell dedicated to house mongers who love decorating. How can the GM's miss that?!

I get that grandfathering seems like a nice gesture to celebrate loyalty, but....at the expense of everyone else who's gaming? Really?

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Originally Posted by shmily

I get that grandfathering seems like a nice gesture to celebrate loyalty, but....at the expense of everyone else who's gaming? Really?

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We don't really know if this is why SE allowed grandfathering. They have already expressed an interest in letting all characters access the same private home. Perhaps SE plan to remove grandfathering when this feature is brought in. While I disagree with grandfathering I do understand SE not wanting to suddenly cut off characters from content by removing their access to housing.

If SE plan to do the above they absolutely should allow grandfathered players to choose which private home they want to keep. Though I do not hold a great opinion of these people, I think it would be cruel to assign them a random private home. And of course SE should refund the full price of both the plots and houses that are revoked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shmily

We have one person who grandfathered in and has almost 30 plots, including most of an entire ward in LB...so far....just under that one tag. It's.....so disheartening.

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If they're all fc tags then sadly grandfather removal would do nothing about that. SE lifted the restriction on how many fc houses a single account can have on a single server. It is now eight. Presently the difference between grandfathered players and the rest of us is how many private homes we own. If it's a mix of private and fc houses, well that's a different story.

I admit I'm a bit confused as to why the restriction on fc housing was lifted. I seriously doubt there are many out there who own several fc houses with the intention of managing more than one community. I lead a modestly sized fc and I couldn't imagine having time to manage another. Furthermore the restriction helped to prevent further workshop abuse. Some fcs have several dummy fc houses funnelling all their workshop spoils to one fc. Lifting the restriction feels like a step backwards.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Based on common sense. If you still think there are grandfathered FC houses at this point or that grandfathered personal houses are a problem, I suggest reading my posts again.

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Uhm, on what source really? Really seem like walking on a thin line of maybe this or that?

It really ruins any credibility in everything as it is or at least the bold claim that grandfathered people is leaving or giving up their houses for anyone that got a private estate +1.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Uhm, on what source really? Really seem like walking on a thin line of maybe this or that?

It really ruins any credibility in everything as it is or at least the bold claim that grandfathered people is leaving or giving up their houses for anyone that got a private estate +1.

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They have no creditability. They're simply defending a system which benefits them. If SE ever did intervene, they will lose almost all their houses. Therefore, they're going to oppose every possible scenario which could result in that reality.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They have no creditability. They're simply defending a system which benefits them. If SE ever did intervene, they will lose almost all their houses. Therefore, they're going to oppose every possible scenario which could result in that reality.

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Right, guess you skipped the posts where I've explicitly stated that none of my houses are grandfathered. lol.

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Originally Posted by MaybeOliverB

Right, guess you skipped the posts where I've explicitly stated that none of my houses are grandfathered. lol.

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And I guess you assumed I meant simply grandfathered. SE could easily link housing to your account and limit both personal and FC in such a manner. Unless you have sixteen accounts, you'd lose houses and you know you would.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And I guess you assumed I meant simply grandfathered. SE could easily link housing to your account and limit both personal and FC in such a manner. Unless you have sixteen accounts, you'd lose houses and you know you would.

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The very first post of this thread is about grandfathered houses and so are the last pages. I assumed you knew what this thread was about when you decided to click on "post". :rolleyes:

I'm not getting any special treatment from this "system" and somehow I should be punished regardless? Totally makes sense, except it doesn't. SE is not gonna take direct measures against the few players that have put in the necessary effort into acquiring more houses than your average player. They've already grandfathered multi-home owners and doubled down when they removed the limitations on the total amount of FC houses you can stack on a service account.

This game is pretty cheap entertainment. If you think a few more accounts is gonna hinder me in anyway...

In Summary: "I got mine, so it doesn't matter, and even though I acknowledge I can do this through paid content, making this less of an issue for those who wont, I'd rather all of you suffer for what I want."
Translation: MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE