Can we discuss how abusive the GM department is when it comes to 'Grief Tactics'? A

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

Yeah, no.

When I spawn S Ranks and I get a Full Party to do it, Hunts are amazing, especially at appropriate Level. They are challenging and have awesome mechanics.

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So...the lvl 50 S ranks have mechanics when they die in 5 seconds? I'm sure the SB ones do as they're lvl appropriate what I mean is scale them to lvl 70 all the hunt ranks and base it off how many people are engaged with fighting the monster that way it's not a steam roll get in get out kinda thing that way it makes it more worth while. I mean you're free to like what you like how it stands right now most Hunts <70 just add nothing but a quick smack and get your seals so yay?

I like the cryptic ideas of spawning S ranks but in the end they're nothing special, at least to me, sure there's spectacle when you first fight them but most of the time in old areas especially they die before any kind of mechanics even happen.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

I think Awful meant make S ranks more powerful the more players there are, not easier. Sure at appropriate level S ranks can be challenging, but most of the time it's gonna be a max level player which for right now means ARR and HW S ranks are a joke. Come next expansion, SB S ranks will be a joke too.

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^ this is exactly why I believe removing or not even participating in Hunts doesn't influence the game all the hunt monsters are obsolete every expansion it's why SE needs to scale them properly or they'll have the same repeating issues they've been having for all their content so far from 2.X-4.X something needs to change in 5.0 to the Hunt and everything in actuality.

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Originally Posted by Awful

So...the lvl 50 S ranks have mechanics when they die in 5 seconds? I'm sure the SB ones do as they're lvl appropriate what I mean is scale them to lvl 70 all the hunt ranks and base it off how many people are engaged with fighting the monster that way it's not a steam roll get in get out kinda thing that way it makes it more worth while. I mean you're free to like what you like how it stands right now most Hunts <70 just add nothing but a quick smack and get your seals so yay?

I like the cryptic ideas of spawning S ranks but in the end they're nothing special, at least to me, sure there's spectacle when you first fight them but most of the time in old areas especially they die before any kind of mechanics even happen.



^ this is exactly why I believe removing or not even participating in Hunts doesn't influence the game all the hunt monsters are obsolete every expansion it's why SE needs to scale them properly or they'll have the same repeating issues they've been having for all their content so far from 2.X-4.X something needs to change in 5.0 to the Hunt and everything in actuality.

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What are you talking about? I literally said "at appropriate level". And they do not die at 5 seconds with appropriate Parties lol.

Also, no, level scaling S Ranks (or any other open world content) is a huge no-no, because ARR S Ranks must adhere to that expansions Level Cap, because a player buying ARR won't be lvl 70, he will be capped at level 50. And ARR S Ranks are lvl 50 content. If they scale them, it is prone to lawsuit.

Level Syncing them would be acceptable though.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

What are you talking about? I literally said "at appropriate level". And they do not die at 5 seconds with appropriate Parties lol.

Also, no, level scaling S Ranks is a huge no-no, because ARR S Ranks must adhere to that expansions Level Cap, because a player buying ARR won't be lvl 70, he will be capped at level 50. And ARR S Ranks are lvl 50 content. If they scale them, it is prone to lawsuit.

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What...Prone to lawsuit? What're you talking about? How would that lead to a lawsuit? I thought you wanted a challenge as you said that's the reason you do them I don't see an issue with scaling all the hunts to give them more meaning rather then call out > dead > move on. It's gonna be like that next xpac where the SB hunts are going to die rather easily and so on and so forth I don't see why it has to follow "expansion level cap" that to me sounds like a cop out answer and thus makes the hunt, at least to me less meaningful then it already is.

And with our gear when we first started the xpac even in SB we have ilvl 380-400 gear vs the ilvl 300 gear we started out with so yes they don't go down in 5 seconds but they're starting to lose their longevity even now you even have to see that, sure it's fun for the social aspect and the "look guys I spawned an S rank!", but it's the same pattern over and over again and it'll lead to them being obsolete.

Bottom line is they don't scale at all from the beginning of the xpac > to the end.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I've come across people killing ARR A ranks solo myself. I remember coming across a PLD recently in Western Thanalan soloing an A rank. Hope they didn't mind me jumping in but it was there and so was I. It is definitely someone's right to do so if they wish. Whoever finds it basically calls the shots. They can either report it, or they can go ham.

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Speaking as someone like that PLD and who does just that, well...the drama with hunts is a two way street and effects us as well when we see others. I'll typically wander into A ranks when doing my daily hunt block in HS zones and go to solo them. Sometimes others will show and join in and me personally I'm totally okay with that and have no issues at all. Though I'll be honest and say when others do show up after I engage I do get a bit skittery at first because the first thing that pops in my mind is "are you here just to jump in or are you here to reset on me to bide time for the hunt mob to show up?" It takes me a couple moments watching to figure out a players intent and if that intent is just to jump in. Then that's perfectly fine with me.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

What are you talking about? I literally said "at appropriate level". And they do not die at 5 seconds with appropriate Parties lol.

Also, no, level scaling S Ranks (or any other open world content) is a huge no-no, because ARR S Ranks must adhere to that expansions Level Cap, because a player buying ARR won't be lvl 70, he will be capped at level 50. And ARR S Ranks are lvl 50 content. If they scale them, it is prone to lawsuit.

Level Syncing them would be acceptable though.

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I'd be totally cool with a level sync system in place.

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Originally Posted by Awful

What...Prone to lawsuit? What're you talking about? How would that lead to a lawsuit? I thought you wanted a challenge as you said that's the reason you do them I don't see an issue with scaling all the hunts to give them more meaning rather then call out > dead > move on. It's gonna be like that next xpac where the SB hunts are going to die rather easily and so on and so forth I don't see why it has to follow "expansion level cap" that to me sounds like a cop out answer and thus makes the hunt, at least to me less meaningful then it already is.

And with our gear when we first started the xpac even in SB we have ilvl 380-400 gear vs the ilvl 300 gear we started out with so yes they don't go down in 5 seconds but they're starting to lose their longevity even now you even have to see that, sure it's fun for the social aspect and the "look guys I spawned an S rank!", but it's the same pattern over and over again and it'll lead to them being obsolete.

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1) You cannot sell me a game (ARR) that has contents that belong to it (ARR S Rank Hunts) that are not possible to be beaten with the tools provided with what you offer me in my purchase. Thus, prone to lawsuit.
2) I never said the reason I do them is because of challenge. I said they are challenging which I do like.
3) I also said they are challenging without level scaling at appropriate level / participation, aka how they are meant to be experienced.
4) They will never be obsolete. Especially if they introduce Level Sync to them. Try doing Agrippa as a Level 50 Full Party, and not as a Legion of Level 70 Alliances. Even now, if you try Agrippa as a Level 70 Light Party, he is still somewhat awesome.

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

I'd be totally cool with a level sync system in place.

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Me too.
I seriously can't wait to be able to do all S Ranks as a level appropriate, Minimum ilvl, 8-Man Party someday.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

Kicking for playing sub-optimally admits parsing, so it's reportable.

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It's only admission of parsing if they literally say it ingame chat, but it's only reportable if they diss someone about their dps numbers..

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

1) You cannot sell me a game (ARR) that has contents that belong to it (ARR S Rank Hunts) that are not possible to be beaten with the tools provided with what you offer me in my purchase. Thus, prone to lawsuit.
2) I never said the reason I do them is because of challenge. I said they are challenging which I do like.
3) I also said they are challenging without level scaling at appropriate level / participation, aka how they are meant to be experienced.
4) They will never be obsolete. Especially if they introduce Level Sync to them. Try doing Agrippa as a Level 50 Full Party, and not as a Legion of Level 70 Alliances. Even now, if you try Agrippa as a Level 70 Light Party, he is still somewhat awesome.

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1. Even if you have a trial account associated with ARR you can't reach max level nor can you even go to Ishgard or SB areas so that point is very moot not to mention there are level 50 hunts you can do and will give you seals, so again moot. You can and will bump into these regardless of your expansion in ARR areas that's the point you failed in this point I've had to bail (albeit rare cases) some lowbies because there was an A rank off the beaten path like in Northern Thanalan.

2. They're really not challenging it's the same mechanics just added onto an open area with a giant AoE (the A rank in Mor Dhona is almost the same as the A rank in Thanalan with the Courel) the S ranks have 1-2 mechanics at most that can be brute forced so I don't see much of a challenge take Agrippa since we're talking about him, he has buffs that you need to look for so you don't kill yourself that's about it. He's just a glorified mech that you've fought before combined with a Claw monster he has Exhaust and Grand Sword the only difference is it applies vulen.

3. Well there isn't a level sync that's the games fault for not providing it within the game it's not the expansions fault when you yourself are lvl 50 and your lvl 70 friends summoned and kill it so this is a horrible point to try and make valid as you can't validate content for someone who can't even reach max lvl because within the first couple of hours they are going to consciously want to continue and buy the expansion or not. Everyone's different so you can't say "it's expansion locked! It's not fair!" when there's lvl 50 A rank hunts in places like Middle La Noscea and such that people under lvl 50 die to because it can spawn anywhere.

4. That's if they do and I have done Agrippa back in ARR back when he was challenging, you can't compare lvl 50 to lvl 70 being somewhat awesome you can solo him as a healer/rdm/pld/war I could go on there is no challenge in doing lvl 50 hunts that's the point i'm trying to make yet you give me these half arsed comments about it being some spectacle and gated behind an expansion when it's not.

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Originally Posted by EorzeaHero69

It's only admission of parsing if they literally say it ingame chat, but it's only reportable if they diss someone about their dps numbers..

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It's also not hard to see without a parser whether someone is underperforming or not, whether it's the number of deaths or a rotation they are clearly doing wrong. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Totomo-Omo

Something that would have never spawned if not for the efforts of a select few.

E N T I T L E M E N T.

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Hopefully the irony of your argument isn't above your perception.

Whether you agree with it or not, regardless if you dislike it or like it, the only rule is not to reset someone's progress on a hunt after it's pulled as that is a direct interference of mechanics. If you're not there you have no established progress, regardless if you've done any part of the work in spawning it or not.

Early pulling does not exist nor are there any claims on who the target belongs to.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Right, so if hunts don't belong to anyone and are fair game, then why is Douchey-Mc-Earlypullers entitlement to credit so important? It's not his hunt either. He doesn't own it, he's not entitled to credit. If someone reset it on him and he did somehow lose credit, tough luck to him.

I mean, why is the forum attitude working one way where the community and hunt spawner have zero claim on an S rank and the early puller has full claim to the degree that he can report if he doesn't recieve it.

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Because he's already fighting it. Not hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

1) You cannot sell me a game (ARR) that has contents that belong to it (ARR S Rank Hunts) that are not possible to be beaten with the tools provided with what you offer me in my purchase. Thus, prone to lawsuit.

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If anything 1.0 showed us that it isn't. Max level for players was level 50. The max level of monsters off the beaten path was level 99 and had no issues one shotting any player regardless of level or equipment.

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Originally Posted by Totomo-Omo

warned for "Grief Tactics" in response to her resetting an S-Rank that SHE herself spawned and relayed to the entire community.

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A lot of people are under the understanding that S ranks belong to people.
People either think it's belonging to the one who spawned it (which imo people should be polite enough to at least let them get to it), or to the entire server and you can't kill the thing until everyone and their grandmother is there.

S ranks, once spawned, are overworld mobs like any other. Resetting them has always been griefing. GMs have said this time and time again.
Resetting an S rank that's already been engaged is not cool to the people who have been fighting it. They've already blown their cooldowns, are mid-rotation, etc, and taking it away from them isn't proper etiquette.

This isn't abuse by the GM team. It isn't abuse at all, it's just a fact about the rules of the game.
Trying to paint them like that isn't helping your case either. And it's a misunderstanding about the property of S ranks that's causing it.

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If anything 1.0 showed us that it isn't. Max level for players was level 50. The max level of monsters off the beaten path was level 99 and had no issues one shotting any player regardless of level or equipment.

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There's a difference between stuff that isn't meant to be beaten (and usually just flat out kills you if you try, or cross its path -- it's not something meant to be overcome, it's meant as a punishment for going/doing what the game doesn't want you to)... and stuff that's meant to be beaten (like, usually the thing in question will have drops or achievements of some kind for beating it, showing that its potential defeat WAS intended at some point in design) but the game doesn't give you the means to actually do so.

SE has skirted this line in the past with both FFXI and FFXIV, particularly in Tanaka-era; FFXI veterans probably have an assload of stories about Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden that they could relay to you...

I miss Tanaka sometimes....

Patch 2.35 Notes

Elite mark bills, as well as rank B elite marks, have been adjusted as follows:

• The respawn time of rank B elite marks has been changed to five seconds.
• The HP of rank B elite marks has been reduced so that they can be defeated by a single player.
• In conjunction with the above HP reduction, the minimum contribution required to complete elite mark bills has been lowered.
• Rank B elite marks have been changed from aggressive to passive.
• Rank B elite marks will no longer yield rewards upon defeat.
  * Upon defeating a rank B elite mark, players will only receive the reward granted by the elite mark bill in their possession.
• In conjunction with the above change, the number of Allied Seals awarded by elite mark bills has been increased from 20 to 50 seals.
• All players will now be assigned a different weekly elite mark.

I don't know why people don't ask for fixes like the above. They've done it before, so it's not like they can't do it. It would eliminate the toxicity, any advantage provided by unauthorized third-party apps and the mass disconnects.

Periods of invincibility before pull and level sync don't address all of the issues with hunts.

Salt and Light - Dies in 74 seconds

Udumbara - Dies in 75 seconds

Orghana - Dies in 60 seconds

Gamma - Dies in 67 seconds with mass disconnects

Okina - Dies in 90 seconds with mass disconnects

Not only are those all SB hunts, where everyone is 70 or lower, but they happened at the start of the expansion, before ilvl increases.

As you see with the Gamma and Okina links, early Ixion and Eureka, the game just can't handle too many players in one area.

I feel like they're really going to have to implement level sync for the ARR/HW S ranks because with the current rate of stat scaling, ARR S ranks are going to be soloable in a less then a minute by the time the end of 5.x rolls around.

They've previously stated have no intent to revamp older hunts under the notion that they're "outdated content", except that's kind of untrue when they keep giving older hunts Centurio seals/whatever the latest unlimited tomestone types are, which means they're always going to be relevant to some degree.

Also, I really think they need to be less transparent about whether or not a S rank can actually spawn, because it's awful when hunts like Pale Rider/Agrippa get killed without any notice as their spawns are uncommon enough that it's almost impossible to know if you're just getting bad RNG or not.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like they're really going to have to implement level sync for the ARR/HW S ranks because with the current rate of stat scaling, ARR S ranks are going to be soloable in a less then a minute by the time the end of 5.x rolls around.

They've previously stated have no intent to revamp older hunts under the notion that they're "outdated content", except that's kind of untrue when they keep giving older hunts Centurio seals/whatever the latest unlimited tomestone types are, which means they're always going to be relevant to some degree.

Also, I really think they need to be less transparent about whether or not a S rank can actually spawn, because it's awful when hunts like Pale Rider/Agrippa get killed without any notice as their spawns are uncommon enough that it's almost impossible to know if you're just getting bad RNG or not.

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I'd be fine with a lvl sync option tbh so long as hunts aren't turned into Fates. God I hate Fates and have since 2.1. Did I say I hated Fates?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'd be fine with a lvl sync option tbh so long as hunts aren't turned into Fates. God I hate Fates and have since 2.1. Did I say I hated Fates?

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You realize all a fate is is a hunt, nm, or group of mobs with a level sync option right?

You take away the little map icon and the sound, and nothing changes, its still a fate.

I don't get the community hate towards fates.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like they're really going to have to implement level sync for the ARR/HW S ranks

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That would punish players on low-populated servers or during low-populated hours. Of course, leaving it as is makes it harder for players on higher-populated servers or during peak times.

Between the designated area for the sync and it possibly intersecting with FATEs, and it not having an expiration time, they probably couldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They've previously stated have no intent to revamp older hunts under the notion that they're "outdated content", except that's kind of untrue when they keep giving older hunts Centurio seals/whatever the latest unlimited tomestone types are, which means they're always going to be relevant to some degree.

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They didn't have to adjust Jumbo Cactpot so it didn't take 20 years to get the achievements, they didn't have to remove weather/time restrictions and the "Random" ruleset from TT NPCs and they didn't have to add Verminion NPCs. All of those were common-sense fixes, so expect no difference here.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You realize all a fate is is a hunt, nm, or group of mobs with a level sync option right?

You take away the little map icon and the sound, and nothing changes, its still a fate.

I don't get the community hate towards fates.

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Ignorance is bliss. That's what I tell myself on the subject. As to why people hate them, it's because SE won't let them go. New event? Fates. New zones? Fates. New content? Let's slap some Fates on those too. SE, stop. They aren't fun and they are not interesting.

What if you made it so only the tagging party would get any credit? Anyone not in the party/alliance that pulls the mob gets 0 credit, even if they do 99% of the damage? Wouldn't that fit their narrative better of it's fair game? I'd also do the same with FATEs.

To the OP:

I see your side of the story, I see what you mean and I can definitely identify with the frustration of having trolls who just repeatedly act silly while waiting for players to arrive at a hunt location. However, lets make an attempt to be absolutely fair and look at this objectively... starting the thread with a title that says "Let's discuss how abusive the GM department is when it comes to 'Grief Tactics'?"... that's a bit much innit? That just blankets the whole GM department and that's not fair.

In my experience with the GMs, they have been great in getting my issues resolved... and to be honest, their team works extensively to pacify, resolve and document issues. That said, hunts used to be one of my favourite aspects of this game when it was first introduced but there have been various annoying issues that evolved from their mechanics. Does that keep me from still doing hunts? Certainly not.

One of the reoccuring issues has always been that some players still have the conception that S ranks belong to an Owner or a group of "Owners" (with the assumption that it solely belongs to the person who spawned it). However, by ToS, once the S-ranks are spawned, they are actually open game; and I believe the GMs have stated several times before that resetting them is considered as griefing tactics.

The tricky part is that there is usually a sort of understanding that players should generally try to exercise patience so that other players in their FC, linkshell or parties can race over to the location before commencing battle. This doesn't always happen and hence, the resetting tactics begins.

Unfortunately, that's where the GMs have to follow the ToS rules and act accordingly... thus, its unfair to them to just substantiate "abuse" by the whole department.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

What if you made it so only the tagging party would get any credit? Anyone not in the party/alliance that pulls the mob gets 0 credit, even if they do 99% of the damage? Wouldn't that fit their narrative better of it's fair game? I'd also do the same with FATEs.

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I think its going to happen someday, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already really. If a majority of hunts leads to reports being filed for harassment, early pulling and reset griefing between all sides involved. GM's might eventually reach their wits end and say "Enough" and say it loud enough to the point of the devs flagging hunts for a claim system.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

What if you made it so only the tagging party would get any credit? Anyone not in the party/alliance that pulls the mob gets 0 credit, even if they do 99% of the damage? Wouldn't that fit their narrative better of it's fair game? I'd also do the same with FATEs.

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There's nothing wrong with the system as it is in it's current form. But sure, why not throw napalm with sticks of dynamite into a fire. What's the worst that could possibly happen?

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Originally Posted by Awful

1. Even if you have a trial account associated with ARR you can't reach max level nor can you even go to Ishgard or SB areas so that point is very moot not to mention there are level 50 hunts you can do and will give you seals, so again moot. You can and will bump into these regardless of your expansion in ARR areas that's the point you failed in this point I've had to bail (albeit rare cases) some lowbies because there was an A rank off the beaten path like in Northern Thanalan.

2. They're really not challenging it's the same mechanics just added onto an open area with a giant AoE (the A rank in Mor Dhona is almost the same as the A rank in Thanalan with the Courel) the S ranks have 1-2 mechanics at most that can be brute forced so I don't see much of a challenge take Agrippa since we're talking about him, he has buffs that you need to look for so you don't kill yourself that's about it. He's just a glorified mech that you've fought before combined with a Claw monster he has Exhaust and Grand Sword the only difference is it applies vulen.

3. Well there isn't a level sync that's the games fault for not providing it within the game it's not the expansions fault when you yourself are lvl 50 and your lvl 70 friends summoned and kill it so this is a horrible point to try and make valid as you can't validate content for someone who can't even reach max lvl because within the first couple of hours they are going to consciously want to continue and buy the expansion or not. Everyone's different so you can't say "it's expansion locked! It's not fair!" when there's lvl 50 A rank hunts in places like Middle La Noscea and such that people under lvl 50 die to because it can spawn anywhere.

4. That's if they do and I have done Agrippa back in ARR back when he was challenging, you can't compare lvl 50 to lvl 70 being somewhat awesome you can solo him as a healer/rdm/pld/war I could go on there is no challenge in doing lvl 50 hunts that's the point i'm trying to make yet you give me these half arsed comments about it being some spectacle and gated behind an expansion when it's not.

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1) They are awesome at appropriate level, with appropriate Party, aka as intended.
2) They must be able to be beaten at appropriate level, with appropriate Party. A level 50 mob outside middle la noscea is still beatable by a Full Party of level 50 ARR only friends, so they level up and come back.
3) There is no such thing as early puller, only late arrival.
4) Resetting someone's open world battle, is griefing. Doesn't matter if it is a Hunt or a Hunting Log Monster.
5) You haven't fought Agrippa back in ARR, seeing as you joined after heavensward was launched.
6) There isn't a level sync, so hopefully they add it for S Ranks, and the salt stops, because everything will transform to the Lochs due to this much salt.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's also not hard to see without a parser whether someone is underperforming or not, whether it's the number of deaths or a rotation they are clearly doing wrong. Just saying.

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You can't judge a rotation without a parser, because the other person can claim that his rotation style is better.
Constant deaths by being hit by mechanics is something else. But if he isn't being hit by mechanics you can't kick him for underperforming.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

If anything 1.0 showed us that it isn't. Max level for players was level 50. The max level of monsters off the beaten path was level 99 and had no issues one shotting any player regardless of level or equipment.

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Then it should have died a horrible death by fire....

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You realize all a fate is is a hunt, nm, or group of mobs with a level sync option right?

You take away the little map icon and the sound, and nothing changes, its still a fate.

I don't get the community hate towards fates.

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Me too. I love FATEs, they are an amazing feature imo.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Ignorance is bliss. That's what I tell myself on the subject. As to why people hate them, it's because SE won't let them go. New event? Fates. New zones? Fates. New content? Let's slap some Fates on those too. SE, stop. They aren't fun and they are not interesting.

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Yes they are fun, and are interesting.
They are on the spot battles that usually involve little sketches before they spawn, unique lore, give decent exp, scale to number of people that participate, often times have unique drops, have awesome music, and can be synced at appropriate level (what the Hunt lacks imo). Plus they can be set as a chain to have a little event.

The multi chain FATE at Azim Steppe is probably the #1 best content in the game imo.
Same with the Fox FATE that is multipart with awesome story, and it ties with the 4 Lords Story.

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You can't judge a rotation without a parser, because the other person can claim that his rotation style is better.
Constant deaths by being hit by mechanics is something else. But if he isn't being hit by mechanics you can't kick him for underperforming.

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I don't need a parser to know that the RDM in my party using Riposte over and over without ever casting anything is underperforming.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't need a parser to know that the RDM in my party using Riposte over and over without ever casting anything is underperforming.

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Yep, exactly.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

That's why things like Provoke don't work on them. And if they generated so much agro that they were in a position to pull that griefing, they're probably getting the credit anyway.

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Hm true then another example, what if someone resets it out of pure spite because they dislike the group that pulled? Or wants to troll, or wants to put others first while punishing the rest. If these are grief tactics than any such actions should be counted as grief because as the GM in the other thread had stated, no matter the intent you are still intentionally hurting other people with that.

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Originally Posted by Spiroth

You can't judge a rotation without a parser, because the other person can claim that his rotation style is better.
Constant deaths by being hit by mechanics is something else. But if he isn't being hit by mechanics you can't kick him for underperforming.

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If I remember correctly though, SE accepts that players have different playstyles when it comes to the game. So if a party decides to kick another player because they aren't performing they way the majority of them expect, then a kick is actually justified. Those DPS not using Diversion, yep we can kick them, that Healer not DPSing, yep we can kick them too.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

If I remember correctly though, SE accepts that players have different playstyles when it comes to the game. So if a party decides to kick another player because they aren't performing they way the majority of them expect, then a kick is actually justified. Those DPS not using Diversion, yep we can kick them, that Healer not DPSing, yep we can kick them too.

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Player resets S rank because someone pulled early* should count as different playstyles too and be allowed!

*early in that the ones who did the work to spawn decided to give 2 minutes for people to show up and someone pulled after only 20 seconds

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

Player resets S rank because someone pulled early* should count as different playstyles too and be allowed!

*early in that the ones who did the work to spawn decided to give 2 minutes for people to show up and someone pulled after only 20 seconds

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I wasn't specifically talking about hunts but the original conversation about parsing and rotations, though thanks for your contribution, not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

I wasn't specifically talking about hunts but the original conversation about parsing and rotations, though thanks for your contribution, not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

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I was being serious. People who did the work to spawn a S rank did not have to call out the S rank and let other people participate in the kill. GM's should not be punishing the spawners when they reset a S rank when a early puller complains, especially when the early puller would not of even been there to pull early had the spawners not called out the hunt. So spawners resetting a S rank should count as different playstyles and be allowed.

I think the issue is, even if you helped (or you alone) spawned it, you don't own "it". Even if you reset it out of the kindness of your heart, there's always going to be that one player who doesn't arrive until seconds after the thing dies who gets their panties in a wad over it and reports it as a griefing tactic. Nobody's going to look through logs and decide that "person A spawned this, so they have a "right" to reset it for others" vs. those who did not.

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I was being serious. People who did the work to spawn a S rank did not have to call out the S rank and let other people participate in the kill. GM's should not be punishing the spawners when they reset a S rank when a early puller complains, especially when the early puller would not of even been there to pull early had the spawners not called out the hunt. So spawners resetting a S rank should count as different playstyles and be allowed.

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I'm sure GMs really don't care about who spawned a S rank.