Let us Dye Normal Raid gear

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

What next, do you want the mounts in NM too? You've already had the minions, orchestrion rolls, and story. Take everything else while you're at it.

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I mean, people did make a thread demanding an easier UwU because they thought it looked cool. Sadly, some people want everything for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I mean, people did make a thread demanding an easier UwU because they thought it looked cool. Sadly, some people want everything for nothing.

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I'd love to have a shot at UwU, it looks like amazing fun, but I've accepted that I'm frankly not at the level to do it yet, and that's ok. It isn't going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I mean, people did make a thread demanding an easier UwU because they thought it looked cool. Sadly, some people want everything for nothing.

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...I think we also had threads demanding that the second phases of the Exdeath and Kefka fight that are exclusive to Savage should be included into NM... not even about 10 minutes of fight can be exclusive and new to Savage...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...I think we also had threads demanding that the second phases of the Exdeath and Kefka fight that are exclusive to Savage should be included into NM... not even about 10 minutes of fight can be exclusive and new to Savage...

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Yeah. I hope this trend continues into 5.0. While I'm glad story mode exists I'm all for savage raiders getting a bit extra for their efforts like this.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And yet some have pointed out on this thread, the players that wants dyeable armor and the players that wants to do Savage are very different. If I just started doing Savage because I wanted the dyeable armor, but I don't care doing Savage at all properly, then I'm going to be dragging down a team that actually wants to be there.

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I would argue that only a small handful of savage players wouldnt care about dyeable versions being available from normal modes. And even then, it is not mutually exclusive to other motivations. Peoples armor and its ability to be dyed is a perk that a lot of savage raiders like due to its a literal sign saying "Yes, I cleared this content." It is the exact same reason why other glamours, such as those from the Ultimates, are not available for completing the normal modes. They are status symbols, and if you remove that from raiders, I hazard many of them will actually be quite mad about it.

You want that dyeable gear, do the harder content. Work for it. IF its really worth it to you, youll learn the fights, work your butt off, and get it. But as it stands, the idea you should be rewarded with specialty glamour on the virtue of completing average difficulty content, and then telling raiders "Oh, you dont need anything special for your endeavors," is a bit silly and self entitled. Be a better player and get rewarded. Thats how it works.

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Originally Posted by Edax

LOL, you really felt you needed to explain that to me?

/sarcasm I don't do Savage because I don't like Savage...there must be a connection here! Some clue as to why I don't have all the Savage rewards!

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Yeah, but what youre suggesting is this: "Im to lazy to learn to do the content, So Im going to petition SE to change the system to suit my tastes and desires at the direct expense of better players." And youre trying to justify it by saying "Well everyone likes dyeable armor, so everyone should have it!"

The catch is that yes, everyone likes it, so people should be motivated to do harder content, and Savage raiders then do it and get the armor. There is no limitation to you getting what you want, except what you deem as being worthwhile. If you wanted it bad enough, youd put in the work. Instead you dont want to work, and are requesting SE give you the 'good stuff' while not putting in effort and expecting the Savage raiders to just be like "Nah, its totally fine that you guys get the same stuff we do for a fraction of the effort.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I would argue that only a small handful of savage players wouldnt care about dyeable versions being available from normal modes. And even then, it is not mutually exclusive to other motivations. Peoples armor and its ability to be dyed is a perk that a lot of savage raiders like due to its a literal sign saying "Yes, I cleared this content." It is the exact same reason why other glamours, such as those from the Ultimates, are not available for completing the normal modes. They are status symbols, and if you remove that from raiders, I hazard many of them will actually be quite mad about it.

You want that dyeable gear, do the harder content. Work for it. IF its really worth it to you, youll learn the fights, work your butt off, and get it. But as it stands, the idea you should be rewarded with specialty glamour on the virtue of completing average difficulty content, and then telling raiders "Oh, you dont need anything special for your endeavors," is a bit silly and self entitled. Be a better player and get rewarded. Thats how it works.

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And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

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So is the idea of having to earn upgraded gear to dye it.

Base af1 gear? Gotta unlock dying.
AF3 gear? Gotta do Eureka.
Tome gear? Gotta wait several months and then do alliance raids for tokens.

The idea of unlocking better, dyable versions of gear is not exclusive to savage either.

If they gave savage their own unique armor then fine, but in the current model, nope.

I typically dont like to use the "It's a slippery slope" argument, but it seems apropos here. Lets humor the premise that theyll just create "cooler and better rewards" for savage, and make dyeable armor a baseline feature.

How long till people start saying "It's not fair that Savage content people get this cool specialty armor. Why do our armors suck." Mind you, SE is already meeting the casual player base halfway on the issue. The Omicron Armor is still cool looking armor, even if it is undyed. They are letting players wear the armor to its almost fullest extent by just completing regular mode. If they give better designed armors and gears to the Savage, then the situation will shift away from Dyeable armor to cool vs uncool armors. I mean, the root of your point about dyeable armor is about having more available glamour that you like. So it stands to reason that if you get your wish, SE will hten have to design better/cooler armors and the like for savage, which will shift the glamour question to what I said: "Why do Savage raiders get 'cooler' armor than normal raiders. I want to have it"

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Originally Posted by Edax

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

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SE did add different things to savage with the second part of final fights each tier in SB and people complained that it wasn't fair that raiders got to partake in exclusive content. People complained when Ultimate was locked behind completing the savage tier raiders got to partake in exclusive content.

It seems that no matter what rewards raiders get there will be someone who states that it isn't right and that they should be able to access it in nm. Lets say you get your dyeable gear in nm, how long until people start complaining that the mounts being exclusive to savage is unfair? I'm sorry but you only think the dyeable sets being exclusive to savage is lazy development because it is an inconvenience to you.

Most of this game is already catered to casuals, let raiders have their rewards.

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Originally Posted by YukinoAmidala

SE did add different things to savage with the second part of final fights each tier in SB and people complained that it wasn't fair that raiders got to partake in exclusive content. People complained when Ultimate was locked behind completing the savage tier raiders got to partake in exclusive content.

It seems that no matter what rewards raiders get there will be someone who states that it isn't right and that they should be able to access it in nm. Lets say you get your dyeable gear in nm, how long until people start complaining that the mounts being exclusive to savage is unfair? I'm sorry but you only think the dyeable sets being exclusive to savage is lazy development because it is an inconvenience to you.

Most of this game is already catered to casuals, let raiders have their rewards.

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Just because somebody always complains doesn't mean every complainer doesn't have a point. If we argue that no changes should ever be made because somebody will always complain, then this game can't be updated with more content ever again.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

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The story is in NM now.
Minions drop in NM now.
Songs drop in NM.
You can get the general gear (design) from NM.

...there really isnt that much left for Savage - I went over this already, but the rewards are by now limited to:
- getting a higher ilvl a few months ahead, only to have it invalidated with the next patch anyways
- dyeable gear
- a mount (only for clearing the last one though)
- achievments (again: only for the last one; no title or anything given)

Out of all of that, I'd say dyeable gear is probably the best reward - which is most likely why you want it...

Please, tell me, what other possible rewards that are actually worth it - what "better rewards" - could they put in?
Housing items? Sure, I wouldnt mind them - but not everyone has a house and people would be rightfully salty to get something as reward that they cant even use.
How about special glamour-sets locked behind Savage-books? Completly alternative sets (dyeable ofc) that you would have no access to at all without doing savage.

What actual, non-game-breaking rewards could be given out in Savage instead of dyeable gear - something thats actually being desired. Yes, even by raiders.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

The story is in NM now.
Minions drop in NM now.
Songs drop in NM.
You can get the general gear (design) from NM.

...there really isnt that much left for Savage - I went over this already, but the rewards are by now limited to:
- getting a higher ilvl a few months ahead, only to have it invalidated with the next patch anyways
- dyeable gear
- a mount (only for clearing the last one though)
- achievments (again: only for the last one; no title or anything given)

Out of all of that, I'd say dyeable gear is probably the best reward - which is most likely why you want it...

Please, tell me, what other possible rewards that are actually worth it - what "better rewards" - could they put in?
Housing items? Sure, I wouldnt mind them - but not everyone has a house and people would be rightfully salty to get something as reward that they cant even use.
How about special glamour-sets locked behind Savage-books? Completly alternative sets (dyeable ofc) that you would have no access to at all without doing savage.

What actual, non-game-breaking rewards could be given out in Savage instead of dyeable gear - something thats actually being desired. Yes, even by raiders.

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Housing items, unique mounts, raid gear that glows instead of dyes, unique weapons, really the sky's the limit.

Don't savage already get unique weapons anyway? I don't know of a way to get Omega weapons, dyable or not, without savage.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Housing items, unique mounts, raid gear that glows instead of dyes, unique weapons, really the sky's the limit.

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Let's be fair here, if they add more stuff like this to only savage and remove the dyeable stuff there will just be a new thread asking for it to drop in normal and we will be back to square one.

You think people won't want glowing armor or some other unique glamour that doesn't have a normal counterpart if they care about dyes in the first place? That's rather optimistic.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Just because somebody always complains doesn't mean every complainer doesn't have a point. If we argue that no changes should ever be made because somebody will always complain, then this game can't be updated with more content ever again.

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Who is arguing that no changes should ever be made again? My only argument is that I believe that the dyeable raid sets dropping only from savage is fair and should remain the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Housing items, unique mounts, raid gear that glows instead of dyes, unique weapons, really the sky's the limit.

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I adressed housing items as being only a semi-good idea.

Mounts are already a reward - it wouldnt be adding a new reward.

I'm not sure if you've seen the glowy gear in game... it doesnt look to good to be honest, but if they pull actually nice glowy gear off thats your first decent idea.

Weapons with a unique design are already a reward.

Bottomline: Two out of your four ideas are already rewards, so they cant be added instead of the dyeable gear. One isnt really exiting, because not everyone can use the housing feature (or is intrested in it - look at the current thread about the Halloween event and how upset people are that we'll get housing items and not glamour as reward - and you think housing items are a fine and good reward for clearing Savage when most people dont care for them?). The last one - glowy gear - is... considerable, but depending on how well its executed. At that point I much rather take a set thats unique to Savage.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Let's be fair here, if they add more stuff like this to only savage and remove the dyeable stuff there will just be a new thread asking for it to drop in normal and we will be back to square one.

You think people won't want glowing armor or some other unique glamour that doesn't have a normal counterpart if they care about dyes in the first place? That's rather optimistic.

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Pretty much this. Its more or less what I was stating earlier. If you make the NM give Dyeable, and give cooler armor to Savage, eventually the request would be to make the Savage one available to NM. Particularly if the core of the point being argued for making Dyeable on NM is for glamour purposes.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Let's be fair here, if they add more stuff like this to only savage and remove the dyeable stuff there will just be a new thread asking for it to drop in normal and we will be back to square one.

You think people won't want glowing armor or some other unique glamour that doesn't have a normal counterpart if they care about dyes in the first place? That's rather optimistic.

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Of course they're going to want it and complain they can't have it.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Just because somebody always complains doesn't mean every complainer doesn't have a point. If we argue that no changes should ever be made because somebody will always complain, then this game can't be updated with more content ever again.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Pretty much this. Its more or less what I was stating earlier. If you make the NM give Dyeable, and give cooler armor to Savage, eventually the request would be to make the Savage one available to NM.

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So what? Do you think we live in a world where every request is granted? Is that what your afraid of, that Savage will have exactly the same rewards as normal because somebody requested it?

Slight caveat to housing items.

Yes not everyone can own a house. But if you factor in FC private rooms and apartments, housing items as rewards become a lot less exclusive assuming they're indoor housing items.

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Originally Posted by Edax

LOL, you really felt you needed to explain that to me?

/sarcasm I don't do Savage because I don't like Savage...there must be a connection here! Some clue as to why I don't have all the Savage rewards!

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No, you don't have your dyable gear because of your attitude. I literally started raiding because I wanted the dyable gear. It's the only reason I raid. If hundred of other raiders do it for the glamour, so can you. Doubly so because things are eventually able to be unsynced.

You think just because you don't like a piece of content, you should get the rewards elsewhere. If they started applying this mentality to the game, everything in the game would be given to you upon logging in.

I am not sure what games you have played, but exclusive gear/outfits (dyable and such) have always been rewards for harder content. Almost... in every kind of genre I have played. It encourages people to do something new and put themselves to the test.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

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I agree with this 100%. You said this better than I ever could.

Let's be real, most of these arguments distill down to "I really want this particular thing, so I shouldn't have to go out of my way to get it". There's no actual argument overall as to why these rewards should be shifted down, no pros/cons; it's literally "I will do whatever it takes (except the thing that's actually required) to get the item I want". If the coveted piece of glamour hadn't been available from savage, there wouldn't even be a conversation going about whether or not it's fair. The complaint isn't that dyeable gear drops from savage, it's that people don't want to have to put in extra work to get something they happen to want. If the coveted gear had been a PVP reward, the complaints would have then shifted to "but I shouldn't have to do PVP to get glams I want, put it in a dungeon or on a vendor." And, "I want a thing, but I don't want to do the work to get it" is a terrible reason to change reward structures.

This game is already one of the most egalitarian MMOs out there (which I love). You want your kirin, your firebird? You can get them without even having to have the skills to clear current content. You want savage Alexander gear? Go in with a handful of FC mates on a whim. Folks will be able to get the things they're arguing about now insanely easily in a couple of months; if they don't want to wait, they can learn the content now. My friend and I started learning current primal EXs because we loved the wolves, and didn't want to wait for 5.0 to get them, even though we don't usually do high-end content. While I'm 100% for all of the content being made accessible after the fact as it currently is (i.e. through unsyncing and overgearing) and I hate the arguments that "I want my ponies to always be a status symbol" even though they're 3 years out-of-date, a game with absolutely no "high-end" rewards for its difficult content is a terrible idea. And the argument that "oh, they can just make something else the reward instead" is... nonsensical. There's absolutely no inherent difference between giving dyeable gear versus glowy gear versus mounts versus minions versus whatever else comes up; the only difference is that someone has decided that they want the one thing, but not the others.

And that's just self-centred and small-minded.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Of course they're going to want it and complain they can't have it.

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So they'll do exactly what you're doing now? Your entire argument screams entitlement.

Imo, people shouldn't be rewarded for content they haven't done. I say this as someone who doesn't raid savage or ultimate. If people are patient they'll be able to come back and get what they want in the next expansion at the earliest.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Of course they're going to want it and complain they can't have it.

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Good thing you'll be able to steamroll Neo at level 80 in less than a year's time then. Not that he doesn't already fall over in i380 gear. If you don't want to put in the effort to get something like dyeable Savage gear when it's relevant/synced content, then just wait until you can steamroll it unsynced/undersized.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Of course they're going to want it and complain they can't have it.




So what? Do you think we live in a world where every request is granted? Is that what your afraid of, that Savage will have exactly the same rewards as normal because somebody requested it?

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Uh. What's your point? They don't have to grant the dye request either, right? What I'm getting from your post is "I want my dye stuff, you can put all this other stuff in there since I don't care about it and I only care about what I want." That right?

Classic "I don't care unless it affects me" mentality.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Uh. What's your point? They don't have to grant the dye request either, right? What I'm getting from your post is "I want my dye stuff, you can put all this other stuff in there since I don't care about it and I only care about what I want." That right?

Classic "I don't care unless it affects me" mentality.

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And what I get from your post is the slippery slope fallacy.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Good thing you'll be able to steamroll Neo at level 80 in less than a year's time then. Not that he doesn't already fall over in i380 gear. If you don't want to put in the effort to get something like dyeable Savage gear when it's relevant/synced content, then just wait until you can steamroll it unsynced/undersized.

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True. Kind of awkward having thing to have to do, just to get my armor dyed though.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And what I get from your post is the slippery slope fallacy.

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I mean it already happened. In 2.0, if you wanted the raid gear or to see the story, you had to raid. People complained. "I just want to see the story, I don't care about the gear." They even threw you a bone, even added the gear that mostly looks like the raid gear and the same minion sometimes that drops in Savage. Fast forward to now "I want the dyeable gear now, too."

It's a staple of the game at this point.

Want dyable tome gear? Run the alliance raids when they come out. (Or do Savage I think?)
Want dyable AF 3? Get your butt into Anemos.
Want dyable raid gear, run savage.

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Originally Posted by Edax

True. Kind of awkward having thing to have to do, just to get my armor dyed though.

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I mean, you could have it sooner if you want it that badly. But you have to be willing to put in the required effort for it.

SE isn't going to be able to make everyone happy on this one.
Whatever incentive you put in Savage, there will be people that want the reward but don't like the content. Same with PVP, same with Eureka, same with pretty much every piece of content in the game.

At least with Savage unsyncing it later is an option unlike the rated Feast rewards which are gone forever once the season is over.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I mean, you could have it sooner if you want it that badly. But you have to be willing to put in the required effort for it.

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No, I'm willing to wait. But by the next expansion, I gotta basicly waste some of my friend's time just trying to get my samurai armor to dye. It just feels like an unnecessary hoop to have to jump through to get something so basic. By then, the armor would have lost the Savage bragging rights anyway.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And what I get from your post is the slippery slope fallacy.



True. Kind of awkward having thing to have to do, just to get my armor dyed though.

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I mean if I want an UwU weapon I have to complete UwU... if you want the gear from Savage you have to do Savage. I don't understand the confusion here.

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Originally Posted by Edax

So what? Do you think we live in a world where every request is granted? Is that what your afraid of, that Savage will have exactly the same rewards as normal because somebody requested it?

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It's more along the lines that I dont want the reward for effort I put into the game made easily and readily available to casual players on the basis that theyre to lazy to do the work themselves.

I, for one, DO want the dyeable gear for glamour, and I am actually learning and progressing (albeit slowly) through savage to get what I want. I want my efforts to have meaning, even briefly. Where as youre essentially saying "Give me dyeable armor cause I want it. And I should get it cause everyone likes dyeable armor." Not even realizing that your position of everyone likes dyeable armor isnt invalided by the current set up. You can have dyeable armor, you just need to work for it. There is nothing stopping you from that but yourself.

And as I mentioned earlier along with others, if you make the change as you propose, it will be a matter of time before players start saying "We deserve these newer/cooler rewards too." and then use the dye situation as justification of why it should be done.

Also, the last irony is that youre making a request for a change, then trying to say "Well, the request from future players to make that new reward available wont be granted." Why not? If you get your wish, why should it be beyond reason to see other players get their wish in future installments.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And I'm saying that the devs can find different, perhaps better rewards for Savage players. Just locking the dye option on the normal gear is the laziest way to develop the reward system. I think it's a bit far fetched to say it's entitlement to want to dye our gear, it's such a basic mechanic that's found everywhere in the game.

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This is what I was getting at a bit with my post on the other page. For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with "savage has this reward and I want it!". I am far more concerned about the half-assed dye system that we currently have in this game.

On top of being allowed to sometimes dye dungeon, raid, and crafted gear, they've intentionally introduced two copies of the same glamour item (e.g. Ramie Tabard / Expeditioner's Tabard, Rainbow Bustle/High House Bustle, etc.). Why? We also have this hot mess of the floral headpieces (50+ - all because they chose to make them undyeable).

In what way is it better to introduce all of those items vs. just making the base style dyeable?

The dye system in this game leaves much to be desired. If given the option, would you prefer that SE not unlock dyeing for everything just so you can feel special with your savage gear?

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

It's more along the lines that I dont want the reward for effort I put into the game made easily and readily available to casual players on the basis that theyre to lazy to do the work themselves.

I, for one, DO want the dyeable gear for glamour, and I am actually learning and progressing (albeit slowly) through savage to get what I want. I want my efforts to have meaning, even briefly. Where as youre essentially saying "Give me dyeable armor cause I want it. And I should get it cause everyone likes dyeable armor." Not even realizing that your position of everyone likes dyeable armor isnt invalided by the current set up. You can have dyeable armor, you just need to work for it. There is nothing stopping you from that but yourself.

And as I mentioned earlier along with others, if you make the change as you propose, it will be a matter of time before players start saying "We deserve these newer/cooler rewards too." and then use the dye situation as justification of why it should be done.

Also, the last irony is that youre making a request for a change, then trying to say "Well, the request from future players to make that new reward available wont be granted." Why not? If you get your wish, why should it be beyond reason to see other players get their wish in future installments.

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Because it's the slippery slope fallacy. The "If we give them an inch, they'll take a mile" argument which is just nonsense used to justify never giving an inch.

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Originally Posted by Edax

No, I'm willing to wait. But by the next expansion, I gotta basicly waste some of my friend's time just trying to get my samurai armor to dye. It just feels like an unnecessary hoop to have to jump through to get something so basic. By then, the armor would have lost the Savage bragging rights anyway.

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I'm sorry that you'll still have to put effort into obtaining something, regardless of how irrelevant it may be in terms of "bragging rights". You'll already be jumping through less hoops than the people who cleared it when it was relevant, so what is there to complain about? Not everything can just be handed out to players for no effort.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I'm sorry that you'll still have to put effort into obtaining something, regardless of how irrelevant it may be in terms of "bragging rights". You'll already be jumping through less hoops than the people who cleared it when it was relevant, so what is there to complain about? Not everything can just be handed out to players for no effort.

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I can dye most of the gear in-game already with no effort. The system just handed out dyeable armor to the player already for no effort. Savage gear, especially obsolete Savage gear, would just be a needless timesink to get. This is more an issue with the dye system then it is with Savage in my opinion. If dyeing my class gear was locked by Eureka Pagos instead of Anemos, I'd be fuming at that too. Even then, that system was walking a fine line since the development decisions behind Eureka have been so questionable. What happens to the players who join in 5.0 and want to dye their level 70 Samurai robes? Will Anemos even have the population to support that treadmill anymore?

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Originally Posted by Edax

I can dye most of the gear in-game already with no effort. The system just handed out dyeable armor to the player already for no effort. Savage gear, especially obsolete Savage gear, would just be a needless timesink to get. This is more an issue with the dye system then it is with Savage in my opinion. If dyeing my class gear was locked by Eureka Pagos instead of Anemos, I'd be fuming at that too.

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Sorry, I still don't see the issue here. You want something that is a perk to doing Savage (dyeable raid gear), so either do Savage or wait until you can steamroll it. And don't complain about jumping through hoops when you'll have less than the individuals who cleared it at level 70. Again, not everything can just be handed to you.

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Originally Posted by Edax

If dyeing my class gear was locked by Eureka Pagos instead of Anemos, I'd be fuming at that too. Even then, that system was walking a fine line since the development decisions behind Eureka have been so questionable. What happens to the players who join in 5.0 and want to dye their level 70 Samurai robes? Will Anemos even have the population to support that treadmill anymore?

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Considering that relic gear is supposed to return with Pyros, I think it's safe to say, based on how relics typically work in this game, that obtaining the Pyros relic gear will be locked behind doing Anemos and Pagos. So, I fail to see your point here, honestly. If you end up wanting the Pyros gear, you're going to still have to do Pagos to access it, as well as whatever Pyros requirements exist for it.

Eureka will need adjustments come 5.0. What nerfs they will be, who can say, but I'm guess a huge boost to challenge log experience, and a huge nerf to the mobs themselves so that they are more easily soloable. Not sure what they'll do with things like Pazuzu feather or Louhi Ice, but I'm guessing probably an exchange system of sorts will be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I can dye most of the gear in-game already with no effort. The system just handed out dyeable armor to the player already for no effort. Savage gear, especially obsolete Savage gear, would just be a needless timesink to get. This is more an issue with the dye system then it is with Savage in my opinion. If dyeing my class gear was locked by Eureka Pagos instead of Anemos, I'd be fuming at that too. Even then, that system was walking a fine line since the development decisions behind Eureka have been so questionable. What happens to the players who join in 5.0 and want to dye their level 70 Samurai robes? Will Anemos even have the population to support that treadmill anymore?

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Most.

People already listed how some of the more special gearsets require you to invest some sort of effort to make them dyeable, clearly showing that "dyeable gear" is viewed as a worthy reward by both the devs and the players and that people are willing to invest time into making their gear dyeable - Eureka, Tomestone-gear, old AFs... all require you to invest some effort to upgrade them to a dyeable version.
Its also kinda funny how you're basically saying "Well, I'm fine with dyeable AF being locked behind Anemos, because thats content I'm okay doing! But I wouldnt want it locked behind Pagos!" - guess what, I didnt like either Eureka and I bit the bullet and did Anemos to get my dyeable AF.

Dungeon gear is/was infact often not dyeable and only gets dyeable when it turns into crafted sets in the next expansion.

AF-gear for gatheres and crafters in HW and SB is only dyeable when you craft it (HW) or spend more time and effort to upgrade it (SB).

Actually, quite a lot of gear is not dyeable by default and only becomes so as a reward for your efforts. Why should raid-gear be the exception?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Most.

People already listed how some of the more special gearsets require you to invest some sort of effort to make them dyeable, clearly showing that "dyeable gear" is viewed as a worthy reward by both the devs and the players and that people are willing to invest time into making their gear dyeable - Eureka, Tomestone-gear, old AFs... all require you to invest some effort to upgrade them to a dyeable version.
Its also kinda funny how you're basically saying "Well, I'm fine with dyeable AF being locked behind Anemos, because thats content I'm okay doing! But I wouldnt want it locked behind Pagos!" - guess what, I didnt like either Eureka and I bit the bullet and did Anemos to get my dyeable AF.

Dungeon gear is/was infact often not dyeable and only gets dyeable when it turns into crafted sets in the next expansion.

AF-gear for gatheres and crafters in HW and SB is only dyeable when you craft it (HW) or spend more time and effort to upgrade it (SB).

Actually, quite a lot of gear is not dyeable by default and only becomes so as a reward for your efforts. Why should raid-gear be the exception?

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Well I found Eureka questionable to begin with (hence the fine line it walked) and I don't like the fact that a lot of gear isn't dyeable by default when it can be. We can agree to disagree that dyeing gear should be a reward.