“non-essential” premium content, does SE want this kind of reputation if it continue?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

To be fair, most people should just have them ignored by now.

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I'm waiting for the pagos thread next week

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I'm waiting for the pagos thread next week

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That's likely why they're back. It's at least good for popcorn moments when I'm bored at work.

Final Fantsay XV
We paid 60 for the beta before the "royal edition" and dlc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

https://gyazo.com/c371db26cfe72e660605ff005a8ccec6
soooo I think my thread is very fitting now, with what they are trying to do.

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Hey now I thought you left for good as for per your previous rants. Hypocrisy at it's best I see. Called it O.o/ As it's been covered before...apparently people lack common sense, We established services and items sold are not obligatory. If people are dumb enough to spend $5 on a consumable or non consumable furnishing, there better be some nice side effects...otherwise it's just a sad joke. Then again people seems to be desperate for furnishing to make their homes look cute -.-

Just saw stats

VIT Bonus: +4% (Max 11)
Gear Durability Bonus: +1
EXP Bonus: +3%
Duration: 30m

Perfect for people who don't want to craft lol



On that note, SE release the app already I want to spend money on a premium service that is optional for more space and an extra retainer that I CHOOSE to pay for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Hey now I thought you left for good as for per your previous rants. Hypocrisy at it's best I see. Called it O.o/ As it's been covered before...apparently people lack common sense, We established services and items sold are not obligatory. If people are dumb enough to spend $5 on a consumable or non consumable furnishing, there better be some nice side effects...otherwise it's just a sad joke. Then again people seems to be desperate for furnishing to make their homes look cute -.-

On that note, SE release the app already I want to spend money on a premium service that is optional for more space and an extra retainer that I CHOOSE to pay for.

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I'm leaving!!!

FFXIV sub for 6 months with 7 additional retainers = 13,194 Crysta ($131.94) or 21.99 per month.

compared to another popular MMO I used to play.

Black Desert Online = $353.00/month. (Total money spent on BDO Pearlshop 4600.00 / 13 months of playing)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I'm leaving!!!

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Lol yep nice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Hey now I thought you left for good as for per your previous rants. Hypocrisy at it's best I see. Called it O.o/ As it's been covered before...apparently people lack common sense, We established services and items sold are not obligatory. If people are dumb enough to spend $5 on a consumable or non consumable furnishing, there better be some nice side effects...otherwise it's just a sad joke. Then again people seems to be desperate for furnishing to make their homes look cute -.-

Just saw stats

VIT Bonus: +4% (Max 11)
Gear Durability Bonus: +1
EXP Bonus: +3%
Duration: 30m

Perfect for people who don't want to craft lol



On that note, SE release the app already I want to spend money on a premium service that is optional for more space and an extra retainer that I CHOOSE to pay for.

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Doing research is not your strong suit it seems. I did not come back because I resubbed. I came back for the recruitment thing, where you get a day free or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Hey now I thought you left for good as for per your previous rants. Hypocrisy at it's best I see..

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You got that right. Can't even be honest with the fact they were leaving. Was a good sell at the time to try and sell their line.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You got that right. Can't even be honest with the fact they were leaving. Was a good sell at the time to try and sell their line.

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Excuse me? did you even read the post above yours? I am not subbed to the game, there is no dishonesty here. Stop attacking me with fallacies please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Excuse me? did you even read the post above yours? I am not subbed to the game, there is no dishonesty here. Stop attacking me with fallacies please.

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So, you're back in the game cuz of the "free login campaign" and the thing you've been doing mostly is trying to rekindle your previous points of contention? Kind of a weird way to use that limited time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

So, you're back in the game cuz of the "free login campaign" and the thing you've been doing mostly is trying to rekindle your previous points of contention? Kind of a weird way to use that limited time...

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Well SE wants to know why I am not subbed right? I mean we have a right to give feedback in showing a fan cares?

shame on me for caring. The current issue goes with why I made the thread, so what is the issue?

Also mine expired a bit ago, i doono how much longer I got forum access.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Well SE wants to know why I am not subbed right? I mean we have a right to give feedback in showing a fan cares?

shame on me for caring. The current issue goes with why I made the thread, so what is the issue?

Also mine expired a bit ago, i doono how much longer I got forum access.

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Cynicism aside. I was simply inquiring why go back to the same thing you kept doing for weeks prior to unsubbing. I figured there were things to vew that could have higher value but you do you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Cynicism aside. I was simply inquiring why go back to the same thing you kept doing for weeks prior to unsubbing. I figured there were things to vew that could have higher value but you do you.

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I played a lot of FF games, I legit enjoyed SE as a company (More so square soft) for a long time. So it is heartbreaking to me to see this path they are taking, so it is important to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Doing research is not your strong suit it seems. I did not come back because I resubbed. I came back for the recruitment thing, where you get a day free or something.

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Not needed when you keep claiming to leave and not support a company until they change their ways. It's one thing to make a stand and get supporters behind you, it's another thing admitting the fact that you keep trolling over the same issue by starting different threads just do to the facts that you fail to comprehend. I could go back several post and re post everything yet I will make it very simple just on key points;

1. It's a business not a charity.

2. Supply and demand influence items in cash shops.

3. It's optional content

4. It's optional content; meaning not required to play the game.

5. People will pay for shortcuts or glamours. Don't be hate those who who can afford it or choose to spend their money on it.

6. Calling people white knights for expressing a perspective is just shows poor character so don't get over dramatic.

IF your doing the campaign great, if it has not change there is a reason for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

There aren't enough threads to be honest. We need to keep complaining, remaining silent won't change anything.

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Complaining will do nothing as long as kiddos with too much money throw money at their screens.
$$$ >>> player satisfaction. This is 2018 not 1995.

Sucks but that's capitalism.

Given that this thread is apparently getting lively again, and because it's related to my next question, what did happen with the companion app? Last I checked, I thought it was supposed to be released late July. The website even still says late July. I have a morbid curiosity about the app now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Given that this thread is apparently getting lively again, and because it's related to my next question, what did happen with the companion app? Last I checked, I thought it was supposed to be released late July. The website even still says late July. I have a morbid curiosity about the app now.

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They talked about it in the last live letter. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/371409 It's apparently just waiting on approval from the App Store / Google Play. So we'll probably see it sometime in August.

100% agree with OP, it is getting ridiculous, I remember when mogstation itself was controversial. Retainers are just insane, you literally are RENTING INVENTORY IN A SUBSCRIPTION GAME. That is even beyond the worst of F2P games out there. The devs AND community should be ASHAMED of what the game has become since we forced them to turn around 1.0, and not just regarding all this endless micro transaction escalation, just the sheer amount of laziness in the devs and flat out LIES told by YoshiP. Lets go over a few of things that have made this the final straw for me and SB my last expansion unless we get another 1.0 rework of the entire engine/server database infrastructure.

PC addons promised since 2.0 closed beta, and strung the community along for years with please look forward to it, only to cancel them in the usual Japanese fashion of barely acknowledging they were even planned.

Server lag and packet loss at Montreal location for years, even MORE lag and packet loss for most of the midwest in new CA location, I get over 60% packet loss to primal from Colorado,Texas,Kansas,New Mexico, and Arizona without a VPN.

"Personal Housing - While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable." ~Yoshi P

Inventory being a technical and server issue, but that issue is magically resolved as soon a you cough up more money!

Anemic servers and constant excuses regarding server costs when this game literally saved the company from bankruptcy.

Please look forward to the mobile app, for years and years, and when it finally comes out! its freemium AND introduces a weird microtransaction currency with moogle coins.

Outsourced GM and forum mods that never seem to actually give any NA feedback to team, or dev feedback to NA.

Still having to rely on fan translations because apparently paying for timely translation to your largest market segment is too expensive.

Does anyone remember this?https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...14/px8A2G2.png To look at that today with how they treat the game and community is laughable.


PS: can we get a mod to remove the useless posts that just whine and troll about "yet another" thread telling OP to just quit the game already? If you want to argue against these points fine, but most of the posts are just non productive trolling,or attempts to derail. no one is forcing you to read this thread if it annoys you so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Talraen

The disconnect for me is that I don't consider anything Square Enix have started selling to be the kind of crap to worry about. It's not a slippery slope if you haven't actually stepped onto the slope yet. Granted, they now have the infrastructure to sell tokens and who knows what else, but they're only using it for something that there's a legitimate reason to rate limit. The first time they actually cross a line, I'll complain, but no amount of glamours, mounts, extra retainers, or the like is ever going to be across the line for me. To me the argument essentially sounds like "they're selling stuff of no consequence, therefore they're going to start selling things of consequence!" and that doesn't logically follow.

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Renting inventory space in a subscription game doesn't cross the line? not even the WORST korean F2P games can get away with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reiichi

They talked about it in the last live letter. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/371409 It's apparently just waiting on approval from the App Store / Google Play. So we'll probably see it sometime in August.

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Ahhh...yeah, I definitely missed that info in the live letter. Thanks.

I love how 90% of this thread is people hating OP spamming, so they're spamming too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

they treat the game and community is laughable.

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From a purist oldschool gamers PoV: absolutely.
From a 2018 gamers PoV there is nothing outside the usual here.
From a companies PoV: as long as people suck it up and throw money at you: you are doing everything right.

SE is a BUSINESS. Not a deity obliged to hold up high moral standards. If sub + MT crap = more $$$, that's what they are going to do.
Whether you and me are agreeing to that is completely irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, I still hate Blizzard for paving the way on double dipping. Sub + cash shop is an abomination that should never have been accepted by the gaming community but people out there are dumb, gullible and obviously have too much cash lying around.

We can whine, we can rage, we can reminisce about how great gaming was pre DLC/Lootbox/Microtransaction but all we will do is waste our energy while the kiddos of today happily drain their parent's wallets for a few insta gratification shinies.

Who cares about reputation when you can get money ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I still hate Blizzard for paving the way on double dipping. Sub + cash shop is an abomination that should never have been accepted by the gaming community but people out there are dumb, gullible and obviously have too much cash lying around.

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I was starting to think I was the only one finding that unacceptable and one of the roots of the problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

Renting inventory space in a subscription game doesn't cross the line? not even the WORST korean F2P games can get away with that.

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HI!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Granyala

SE is a BUSINESS. Not a deity obliged to hold up high moral standards. If sub + MT crap = more $$$, that's what they are going to do.
Whether you and me are agreeing to that is completely irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, I still hate Blizzard for paving the way on double dipping. Sub + cash shop is an abomination that should never have been accepted by the gaming community but people out there are dumb, gullible and obviously have too much cash lying around.

We can whine, we can rage, we can reminisce about how great gaming was pre DLC/Lootbox/Microtransaction but all we will do is waste our energy while the kiddos of today happily drain their parent's wallets for a few insta gratification shinies.

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Sadly, I agree that a lot of these things are here to stay, but it's still possible to find that balance where you're bringing in the extra cash while delivering a product that people are satisfied with. EA Games is not the company to try and emulate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

100% agree with OP, it is getting ridiculous, I remember when mogstation itself was controversial. Retainers are just insane, you literally are RENTING INVENTORY IN A SUBSCRIPTION GAME. That is even beyond the worst of F2P games out there. The devs AND community should be ASHAMED of what the game has become since we forced them to turn around 1.0, and not just regarding all this endless micro transaction escalation, just the sheer amount of laziness in the devs and flat out LIES told by YoshiP. Lets go over a few of things that have made this the final straw for me and SB my last expansion unless we get another 1.0 rework of the entire engine/server database infrastructure.

PC addons promised since 2.0 closed beta, and strung the community along for years with please look forward to it, only to cancel them in the usual Japanese fashion of barely acknowledging they were even planned.

Server lag and packet loss at Montreal location for years, even MORE lag and packet loss for most of the midwest in new CA location, I get over 60% packet loss to primal from Colorado,Texas,Kansas,New Mexico, and Arizona without a VPN.

"Personal Housing - While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable." ~Yoshi P

Inventory being a technical and server issue, but that issue is magically resolved as soon a you cough up more money!

Anemic servers and constant excuses regarding server costs when this game literally saved the company from bankruptcy.

Please look forward to the mobile app, for years and years, and when it finally comes out! its freemium AND introduces a weird microtransaction currency with moogle coins.

Outsourced GM and forum mods that never seem to actually give any NA feedback to team, or dev feedback to NA.

Still having to rely on fan translations because apparently paying for timely translation to your largest market segment is too expensive.

Does anyone remember this?https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...14/px8A2G2.png To look at that today with how they treat the game and community is laughable.


PS: can we get a mod to remove the useless posts that just whine and troll about "yet another" thread telling OP to just quit the game already? If you want to argue against these points fine, but most of the posts are just non productive trolling,or attempts to derail. no one is forcing you to read this thread if it annoys you so much.

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You do realize that the mogstation cash items are do to the demand people request on social media, forums, in game, and other sources right? They are thinking of the community and in a way it is called a business for a reason. Based on your post you seem to misunderstand the whole meaning of the word.

Business ; The activity of buying and selling commodities, products, or services:

Purpose of a business ; is to offer value (through products and/or services) to customers, who pay for the value with cash or equivalents. Minimally, the money received should fund the costs of operating the business as well as provide for the life needs of the proprietor.

With this being said; you do realize everything is considered OPTIONAL ; meaning available to be chosen but not obligatory.

Hence the Cash shop which we the consumer are to blame for.

As for the whole Lag issues ; -.- you do realize that there are multiple factors that can affect this, NOT just SE. Device, technology changes example; PC 32bit system , recommended to use 64bit system. There is also product knowledge somehow people want to run at max settings when their system can't handle it. Then it crashes and blame the company.

I do agree that the company can be better prepared for expansions and to be honest I was impressed with Stormblood. Compared to Heavansward, it was a huge improvement in congestion controls so they have shown that they are trying to make it a better experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Excuse me? did you even read the post above yours? I am not subbed to the game, there is no dishonesty here. Stop attacking me with fallacies please.

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Counts as a sub dude. If it didnt count as a sub, you wouldnt have access to the forums ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

Renting inventory space in a subscription game doesn't cross the line? not even the WORST korean F2P games can get away with that.

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Inventory offers no real advantage in FFXIV. I don't play Korean F2P games, so I can't compare directly, but I'm still not going to get upset with offering premium products of no actual consequence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Counts as a sub dude. If it didnt count as a sub, you wouldnt have access to the forums ;)

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It's taking advantage of a free login period. No money is changing hands, and they are not getting a month subscription. Why does this forum like to nitpick the shit out of stupid things?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I played a lot of FF games, I legit enjoyed SE as a company (More so square soft) for a long time. So it is heartbreaking to me to see this path they are taking, so it is important to me.

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This strikes true with a lot of us. How often do you see people say "Well if you don't like it, go play something else"? That's not a great way to be. I think most of us are here because we have enjoyed something about the game, and we want to see it become better. We bring issues up, and complain, because we hope it will do some good. Some people go about it better than others, but I imagine the underlying thought is the same.

Of course there are times where you just need to throw in the towel and move on, but that's a personal decision. We all have our limit for what we find acceptable. I'm definitely of the opinion that SE has done plenty of bad things with this game, and I would probably not pick up another SE title. That's a complete reversal from my XI days. I'm obviously just one person, but I doubt I'm alone in that thought.

But then you have SE titles like octopath traveler which is a complete game that threw shades to other titles of the company.

Sadly the world is not black and white and frankly what he says about the crossing the line AS I have shown have been already crossed plenty in the past.

And frankly ppl nitpick on him because of what he did in the past and how he treated ppl in general so you reap what you sow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remedi

But then you have SE titles like octopath traveler which is a complete game that threw shades to other titles of the company.

Sadly the world is not black and white and frankly what he says about the crossing the line AS I have shown have been already crossed plenty in the past.

And frankly ppl nitpick on him because of what he did in the past and how he treated ppl in general so you reap what you sow

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My experience with SE has been mainly just the MMOs. I have a few console games that I never made it far in (X, X-2, and i think another numbered one), so I'm not really a die-hard SE fan to begin with. If there are more questionable actions in the other games, I'm not aware of those personally. Maybe that's for the best ;)

But yeah, nothing is black and white, and business models change as time goes on. There are still ways to embrace the changes while not going hog wild and taking advantage of your customers. Obviously opinions will vary on whether or not SE is crossing that line or not.

As to the last line, I get it - I do. But I've seen far too many threads turn into a complete mess because someone will just nitpick the crap out of some irrelevant comment. I guess that's online forums for ya. That was more my frustration slipping through, and I apologize ><

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remedi

But then you have SE titles like octopath traveler which is a complete game that threw shades to other titles of the company.

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Well, its a company that acts like a lot of small companies being harbored under the parent company's name. That's bound to happen and is not endemic of SE.

But I know what you mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Granyala

From a purist oldschool gamers PoV: absolutely.
From a 2018 gamers PoV there is nothing outside the usual here.
From a companies PoV: as long as people suck it up and throw money at you: you are doing everything right.

SE is a BUSINESS. Not a deity obliged to hold up high moral standards. If sub + MT crap = more $$$, that's what they are going to do.
Whether you and me are agreeing to that is completely irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, I still hate Blizzard for paving the way on double dipping. Sub + cash shop is an abomination that should never have been accepted by the gaming community but people out there are dumb, gullible and obviously have too much cash lying around.

We can whine, we can rage, we can reminisce about how great gaming was pre DLC/Lootbox/Microtransaction but all we will do is waste our energy while the kiddos of today happily drain their parent's wallets for a few insta gratification shinies.

---

This pessimistic outlook is just sad, but also doesn't make any sense. Of course they are a business, which is why we the consumers of their products should let them know how much we dont like it, and also spread the word to others so they dont have the growth they want. A big part of ffxiv success was word of mouth by dedicated fans going back all the way to 1.0. It is strange that the ONLY industry where this viewpoint is given any weight is gaming/software.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Celef

Who cares about reputation when you can get money ?

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Isn't this the thinking that almost tanked SE before ffxiv saved them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radial

Renting inventory space in a subscription game doesn't cross the line? not even the WORST korean F2P games can get away with that.

---

No they don't but they'll make you pay for everything else and unlike here you have to pay if you don't want to waste several hours of playing wiht one death for example. You still don't have to rent retainers, they give you a little advantage but you don't need it.
As long as there are no mandatory things in the mogstation everything is fine and if you want to spend your money for the stuff do it and if not then don't.

And now people can call me a white knight, i don't really care because i'm 100% not i'm just amazed that people don't understand that they pay their sub only for beeing able to log in, get patches and maintenance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

You do realize that the mogstation cash items are do to the demand people request on social media, forums, in game, and other sources right? They are thinking of the community and in a way it is called a business for a reason. Based on your post you seem to misunderstand the whole meaning of the word.

Business ; The activity of buying and selling commodities, products, or services:

Purpose of a business ; is to offer value (through products and/or services) to customers, who pay for the value with cash or equivalents. Minimally, the money received should fund the costs of operating the business as well as provide for the life needs of the proprietor.

With this being said; you do realize everything is considered OPTIONAL ; meaning available to be chosen but not obligatory.

Hence the Cash shop which we the consumer are to blame for.

As for the whole Lag issues ; -.- you do realize that there are multiple factors that can affect this, NOT just SE. Device, technology changes example; PC 32bit system , recommended to use 64bit system. There is also product knowledge somehow people want to run at max settings when their system can't handle it. Then it crashes and blame the company.

I do agree that the company can be better prepared for expansions and to be honest I was impressed with Stormblood. Compared to Heavansward, it was a huge improvement in congestion controls so they have shown that they are trying to make it a better experience.

---

Saying it is due to demand doesn't really add up, that may be true for some items but jump potions for example were almost universally panned and yet we got them anyway.

I'm not sure why you think quoting the definition of business in a condescending way is an argument? Anyone who has actual business experience knows that a huge part of running a business is competition and keeping you customers happy and loyal. This weird justification for any behavior with "Its a BUSINESS" is unique to digital goods, I have no idea why. People would not accept this for anything else.

Regarding things being OPTIONAL , Textures are optional, you could technically play the game in wireframe mode just fine, sound and music is optional, dont NEED them to play the game. Graphic settings beyond the minimum are optional. If you go down this weird subjective rabbit hole 99.99% of the game is optional. Makes no sense to tell people who don't like this its OPTIONAL . Its a meaningless point.

I was not talking about client lag, tho there are issues that highlight SE laziness and incompetence in the move to dx11 with crashes and driver problems that are easily preventable on SE end, as well as lack of proper Anti Aliasing. I was talking about connection problems with the server location and move. I have done network contracting for game companies before and the issues with packet loss and routing in ffxiv are absolutely preventable and solvable,as evidence by the fact no other MMO has this problem. This isn't random intermittent lag that happens to some people in all MMOs, this is chronic specific problem that is easily traceable to a specific point and has been happening for years. if SE actually gave a crap and was willing to spend money to do their literal job as an MMO service provider it could be fixed in a day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilan

No they don't but they'll make you pay for everything else and unlike here you have to pay if you don't want to waste several hours of playing wiht one death for example. You still don't have to rent retainers, they give you a little advantage but you don't need it.
As long as there are no mandatory things in the mogstation everything is fine and if you want to spend your money for the stuff do it and if not then don't.

And now people can call me a white knight, i don't really care because i'm 100% not i'm just amazed that people don't understand that they pay their sub only for beeing able to log in, get patches and maintenance.

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Why are you so amazed that your weird subjective definition of mandatory and optional in the game is not shared by everyone? What exactly is mandatory? If glamour is the true end game for most, then all this "optional" stuff seems pretty mandatory to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

My experience with SE has been mainly just the MMOs. I have a few console games that I never made it far in (X, X-2, and i think another numbered one), so I'm not really a die-hard SE fan to begin with. If there are more questionable actions in the other games, I'm not aware of those personally. Maybe that's for the best ;)

But yeah, nothing is black and white, and business models change as time goes on. There are still ways to embrace the changes while not going hog wild and taking advantage of your customers. Obviously opinions will vary on whether or not SE is crossing that line or not.

As to the last line, I get it - I do. But I've seen far too many threads turn into a complete mess because someone will just nitpick the crap out of some irrelevant comment. I guess that's online forums for ya. That was more my frustration slipping through, and I apologize ><

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What I mean is that FFXI already sold extra wardrobe space and also you had to pay for character slots, from what ppl tell me about the game it's more crippling than here, but I could be wrong. Point is that what's happening is not really doing anything out of the straordinary

as for the quote regarding OP, well I can agree with you, it's a bit of bias for some and for others can be frustating

To me the app's an add-on ease-of-access thingy. If they need to charge for building and maintaining it, I think that's fair.

My cell service provider offers add-ons for a fee. Netflix's got price tiers. Same with my ISP. As with my VPN. It's a good thing for me. I have a choice to pay for what I want; and not pay for what I don't want.

If FFXIV upped the sub to $25 a month but gave us the equivalent of max retainer space, app, all glams, instead of putting it on mogstation, I'd still sub cos it's FF. Won't bat an eyelid. But I still won't be using the mobile app to manage MBs. Nor will I use all of the retainer space. Nor use that blobby flying moggle mount.