Eureka CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions thread - no negativity

Eureka being a Duty/Instance is a good thing because you'll be playing with others from your datacenter instead of only your server. Less chances of it being empty when the dust settles. There's definitely problems though.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You realise that it being a duty is amazing right? If it wasn't a duty it would just be people from your server and the zone may be dead, it being an instance means that you load into the most full instance across your entire data center

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Are you going to offer constructive criticism or just white knight this grindfest? People are offering genuine ideas here about how they think the content could be improved. Contribute to that or go back to the other thread.

Turn the whole island into hamlet using the grand companies as three bases of operation and sprinkle in a bit of crafting for the crafters and monster killing/NM killing for the PVE players and maybe even add a bit of pvp for pvpers.

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Eureka being a Duty/Instance is a good thing because you'll be playing with others from your datacenter instead of only your server. Less chances of it being empty when the dust settles.

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That's not going to be of any help in the end if they don't do anything about the content. Just look at what happened with Diadem. Diadem is cross server too, yet it still didn't take very long before you found no one there except DoLs, and Eureka doesn't even have anything for THEM.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

That's not going to be of any help in the end if they don't do anything about the content. Just look at what happened with Diadem. Diadem is cross server too, yet it still didn't take very long before you found no one there except DoLs, and Eureka doesn't even have anything for THEM.

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Well, duh. Eureka is bad so it won't last very long. This one's obvious.

They need to fix the various Duty/Instance limitations that exist though, or at least only in Eureka.

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Well, duh. Eureka is bad so it won't last very long. This one's obvious.

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Then what is the point of trying to defend it as a cross server duty that's practically DoA anyway? The main "advantage" it offers isn't even going to matter if Diadem was any indication, and it comes with several disadvantages, like how not being able to queue for any other duties in the meantime was mentioned.

Remember when it was argued how soloers trying to level their chocobos were discouraged (which is, incidentally, another very long slog of an exp grind if you don't just rely on Challenge Log exp nowadays) from using them because they couldn't queue for anything with them out, either? It's a valid gripe.

Let people go in below the level cap, sync them to 70 and give a ton of experience. Work on a relic of your choosing while also leveling an alt.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Then what is the point of trying to defend it as a cross server duty that's practically DoA anyway? The main "advantage" it offers isn't even going to matter if Diadem was any indication, and it comes with several disadvantages, like how not being able to queue for any other duties in the meantime was mentioned.

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I already said the 3rd time it has problems for being Duty/Instanced/Cross-server based because of the limitations it brings. I am not oblivious about that.

Not sure why it has the same limitations just because it's also cross-server like dungeons or trials but okay?

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Originally Posted by Kohdo

Are you going to offer constructive criticism or just white knight this grindfest? People are offering genuine ideas here about how they think the content could be improved. Contribute to that or go back to the other thread.

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I already posted my criticisms a few pages back, but thanks for the vitriol. There are some great ideas in this thread, and areas that can be improved, I am just throwing my thoughts into the discussion and highlighting arguments that I feel should be made, as is my right as a forum member.

ok, some constructive idea for eureka and fix this mess:

1) add a board to etherite's camp at the entrance of eureka, that will be used for create group in the zone. something that will replace the lfg option that can't be used here. allowing to clean the chat because right now it's a mess!
simple to implement and will not recquire a lot of work.

2) add some sort of hunter mission into this place, giving an incentive reason for the player to kill monster for other reason than exp. because when you reach high level, you have no freaking reason to go hunt lower level monster. meaning that a large part of the area will be barren of anyone that will deal with this monster. the goal is to keep the whole area alive... plus will give another way to earn exp and reward, because soo far repair and consumable cost gil... but we never get gil from the monster around... meaning spend a lot of time inside eureka is a gil sink that can be quite important depending of the time you spend into it.

3) change the way to upgrade the armor and weapon... the whole protean/anemos system is bad, but like really bad... not enough you need a tremendous number to get one upgrade, it's too extremely unfair... i did play with a friend and in the same time he did get more of 20 crystal i did get 5... a group play together, make the reward personal was an error. but i digress... you have many different monster with different elemental and type spread around the whole place... use it!
make each type of monster drop one item when killed. by example make the bear drop bear skin that can be used for upgrade equipement. each part of equipement will recquire a certain number of this item. and each upgrade and part will have a different type of item needed.
in the end the goal is one more time spread people all around the area, making them aim for different type of monster. but more important drop the super rare random drop unfair. you want to create a grind, do make it less frustrating and not random based. but ask work and dedication. here we don't feel like we did earn a reward mostly because it's totally random and can be fairly unfair.

4) add more thing to do instead to simply kill enemy, like protect operation of construction or escort explorator and make it living. for make simple, give a feeling that the place is not always under control and that the enemy (monster) can deal damage to the operation.

5) finally, reduce the number of player... why you gonna ask? because generally you have one fate at the time and later that will be 180 person on one fate monster.... no one want to redo odin mess!

I would say remove or lower the EXP loss for being in a group. For something that encourages you to be in a party, it sure likes to punish you for being in one. Also I like the idea of a challenge log system so we can better gain EXP/crystals. Maybe have some FATEs that aren't a named mob that gets zerged to death in 3 seconds so we have other options for lock boxes?

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I would say remove or lower the EXP loss for being in a group. For something that encourages you to be in a party, it sure likes to punish you for being in one.

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Now this is something that's actually properly reminiscent of FFXI in its current state.

Many forms of current content in FFXI punish the players for being in PC parties, most commonly by increasing the enemy health (which does not happen if you use NPC parties) or not offering individual chances at loot (something you obviously don't have to fight over with NPC parties). There's many instances nowadays where I've found it actually detrimental to team up with another player in FFXI, and that should pretty much never happen in a MMORPG. If it ever IS disadvantageous (and it's not just because the other player is an idiot), there's something imbalanced about the content.

Definitely a valid gripe, both against FFXI and Eureka.

Okay, for actual suggestions.
People have given a LOT of great suggestions, I might only be repeating them, so...

I'd love to see daily/weekly activities added. Daily quests or a challenge log like people mentioned, which will give you generous rewards to make the grind less tedious.

Give more activites to do in Eureka other than killing monsters mindlessly. What about gathering? (Special) treasure maps? Isn't it supposed to be like an open zone? Maybe add things like Hamlet Defense or Guildleves/Behests from 1.0? Something that actually doesn't involve RNG but can only activate at a set time.

To make the grind less boring, killing monsters should grant the chance to drop lockboxes/chests. Speaking of lockboxes, they should get rid of those useless confettis as rewards.

I really don't get the negativity surrounding Eureka. The repetitive combat and design sure, but the time it will take is comparable to that of previous relic steps. In about 7~ week's you could have a full set. I've spent maybe 5 fruitful hours inside and I'm already at 160-ish crystals.

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Originally Posted by Kohdo

Are you going to offer constructive criticism or just white knight this grindfest? People are offering genuine ideas here about how they think the content could be improved. Contribute to that or go back to the other thread.

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Ignore him, he's one of the biggest white knight's on the forums.

As a healer, the way the game phases out players when an area gets crowded is very frustrating.

My own party members get phased out. I often can't heal or res them, but I can heal and res random players around me. The game should prioritise party members instead of blindly phasing out anyone who isn't within a certain distance.

And yes I was running around to get closer to party members so I could heal them but it often did not work.

Also a suggestion would be some clarification on what they think we should be doing.

The more I play it, the more I'm thinking that the theory that we're all playing it wrong and figuring out the various spawn conditions for NMs (which seemed to be triggered, not timed) might be our REAL task, which would thus prompt collaborative play to try to get as many parties working on spawning NMs at the same time.

They don't need to necessarily give everything away, but a hint as to what exactly the devs thought we'd be doing would be appreciated. Ideally via something in-game, but a news page would be good too.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

The more I play it, the more I'm thinking that the theory that we're all playing it wrong

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when everybody plays it wrong then a developer made a terrible job.

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Originally Posted by EmmaVirgin

when everybody plays it wrong then a developer made a terrible job.

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Not disagreeing at all, that's why my suggestion is a clarification - ideally one that's done somehow in-game. Could be some extra NPC text, a way to check up on likelihood of spawning, etc..

The game introduces the mode and thrusts the player in with little guidance. More than likely this was done to increase the sense of adventure, but it also means first impressions are completely skewed to what a person interprets something to be and not necessarily based on what it is actually meant to be.

A bit of guidance would just go a long way to helping us see what it is they see about Eureka.

ether double the exp from mobs or cut the exp needed per lvl by half, if not a mix of both. Most people hate long lvl grinds.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I really don't get the negativity surrounding Eureka. The repetitive combat and design sure, but the time it will take is comparable to that of previous relic steps. In about 7~ week's you could have a full set. I've spent maybe 5 fruitful hours inside and I'm already at 160-ish crystals.

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I think a lot of the negativity is arising because SE delayed the content repeatedly, and hinted at a far more inventive piece of content than we actually got. That raised the bar for expectations, and then SE spectacularly failed to meet them, delivering something along the lines of the 2.x Atma grind (which nobody liked, either).

What's more, they introduced additional problems that previous Relic grind steps didn't have, because the grind is now done within an instance - forcing players to focus exclusively on the grind. Gone are the days where we can freely send /tells to friends, queue up for Roulettes, easily reset our Retainer Ventures, participate in Hunts, etc., all while generally working on Relic weapon grinds. That's a big sacrifice to make for a grind that isn't any more inspired than previous iterations, and isn't any shorter.

1) I feel 25% EXP penalty on death is a bit high. 10% would be reasonable.

2) While I personally like this content (mainly because it is different from the same old same old dungeons), I have a real problem with the rewards that are obtained from it. Eureka is basically a hell grind for what? Glamours? Grinding is fine, but grinding for what feels like nothing is not. The fact that the gear is 350 at max right now makes it basically useless. I'm not saying they need to be 375 on par with savage tier raid weapons right away, but having them be 370 imo would be perfectly reasonable, esp since the raid tier has been out for half a patch already.

Add a Town Invasion Special Event, to represent how dangerous the place as and how low staffed the town is, that happens every 30 to 40 minutes where the events are set up as stages.

Stage 1) Preparation Stages where multiple different events pop up around the Map and collectable items appear around the map as well to turn in to improve the Town defenses.

Stage 2) Rescue Stage is where NPC explorers are lost in the Maps and need help. Each event complete will rescue a NPC that will provide upgrades to the town defense or NPCs defending the town or they become Defending NPCs.

Stage 3) Defend the towns. Each Town location are now being attacked and players must defend each town zone. Specific locations on the Map will be marked as Checkpoints to defend and if these checkpoints are lost the enemy will begin advancing past these checkpoints to the town until they reach the town. Depending if you succeed at defending the Town or Fail to defend the town will lead to different events for Stage 4. Only one Town needs to be successfully defended but the event will be hard for each fallen Town.

Stage 4 Successfully Defend Town) Special Bosses appear around the Map that will only appear if the players Successfully defend the town. Each boss defeated will reward all players in the Map with EXP and Tokens.

Stage 4 Fail to Defend Town) Reconstruction events will pop up around the map to help rebuild the town. EXP and Token reward will be given to all players on the Map based on how many events are completed but the reward is less than Successfully Defend Town events.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I really don't get the negativity surrounding Eureka. The repetitive combat and design sure, but the time it will take is comparable to that of previous relic steps. In about 7~ week's you could have a full set. I've spent maybe 5 fruitful hours inside and I'm already at 160-ish crystals.

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Alternatively, I can put in five hours or so to learn and farm Byakko for a slightly inferior weapon or simply buy one off the market board. That alone makes this type of grind a massive demoralizer for many. Vhailor also makes a good point. Their constant delays and prior attempts to hype Eureka as something innovative only to release a new, admittedly gorgeous zone, with re-skinned mobs that have their stats buffed severely hurt any chance of a positive reception. Adding to it, the grind is massive for low rewards.

FFXIV does not have compelling combat. Mechanics and learning new fights is what makes the system compelling. Eureka takes the absolute worst aspects and highlights just how flawed they are. Put another way, how does Eureka mob grinding differ from me spending an hour on a target dummy? The mobs do nothing but auto attack. Grinding for what may amount to hundreds of hours isn't fun. I'll have spent less time in God Kefka than Eureka. Perhaps the truly damning part is how can casual players even approach this? Ttaking your rather generous RNG drop rate, that's almost twenty seven hours of grinding trash mobs just to get a full set on one job. Even with an action based combat system, this would get tedious. With what we have? It's an absolute bore.

The death penalty is way too harsh even by old-school MMO standards.

If anything, it should be 25% of your current EXP, not 25% of the current level's required EXP.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

The bears got me with their SAVAGE cleave, nearly killed some ppl because of that

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There are multiple reasons:

1: You're too low level.
2: Didn't run from their cleave.
3: Didn't put the element to DEFFENSIVE instead of OFFENSIVE.

You have to adapt on every situation, and learn from it!

Grinding is OK only if you have a good reason to do it. Not only the final objective of the grind is limitless, but the grind itself has no point.
For instance, the mobs could drop some mats you could then exchange against tomestones or anything else. To make the grind itself useful until you reach the bigger objective.

That's why farming in games like Warframe is more interesting. It's because even if you don't get what you're looking for, you still gain something else and something eventually useful.

As for Eureka, I got to level 3 yesterday and I dont know how far I will go. I like the story it seems to begin and all and I want to explore that island and uncover its mysteries... but not at this price.

I think tying the relic to Eureka was a horrible mistake: because the relic has always been a solo endeavor. And now it no longer is.
Leaving aside all the other issues, my biggest frustration today was with the other players.
Parties that earn less than half the XP I can solo. Parties where everyone insults each other. Parties that go fine at first, but disband in under 5 minutes.
The main attraction to the relic in my mind is that *it can be earned without using Party Finder*.
That you can do it solo, relaxing, without having to deal with other people. Or at least, only deal with them through DF - where success is usually guaranteed, cutting down on the drama; and organizational logistics are taken care of, cutting down on wasted time.
I've found FF14 2000% more enjoyable since I stopped using PF for anything - and now the relic, the *one* piece of long-term, solo grinding content ... isn't anymore.
Regardless of any other issues with Eureka, this hurts the most.

I'd like to see some dailies in there. Hunts, quests, anything. Let me feel like the mindless murder train has a purpose. I'd also like to see a Hunt Scholar chara in there because that's what NMs feel like.

Honestly they need to make it possible to get crystals multiple ways, let loot boxes drop from regular mobs ( I mean that’s the majority of what we kill in there, only seems two NMs) also for the loot boxes take out the fireworks please( and maybe make the glamour gear either Special so if we have it with us we won’t get it again, or tradable) and make it required to use the relic gear instead of making it where “ Hey guess what the whole place is to make your relic stronger but you don’t use it at all” Bright side is doesn’t matter what job we have on, we can switch at any time.

Something that should have been out 6+ months ago - then they could defend the 1300 crystals needed for the grind to current glamour relic.

As it is they need to cut the crystal requirement at least in half - at least for the initial upgrades - not for the most current one.

I do agree on weeklies and daylies - this is needed. And they need to reward a decent chunk of everything - daily exp should be like 1/4 level, daily crystals I'd say 20, weekly crystals 100, weekly exp 3/4 level.

Gear that is weaker then current gear should not take longer to get then current gear(time investment wise).

since the rewards are pretty much useless increase the exp gained.

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

since the rewards are pretty much useless increase the exp gained.

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The rewards themselves are a non issue to me. They had me at dyed AF3. It's just the amount of effort to get said rewards is just...asinine. I want the set, I do...I just don't know how long I'll be able to keep this up.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Something that should have been out 6+ months ago - then they could defend the 1300 crystals needed for the grind to current glamour relic.

As it is they need to cut the crystal requirement at least in half - at least for the initial upgrades - not for the most current one.

I do agree on weeklies and daylies - this is needed. And they need to reward a decent chunk of everything - daily exp should be like 1/4 level, daily crystals I'd say 20, weekly crystals 100, weekly exp 3/4 level.

Gear that is weaker then current gear should not take longer to get then current gear(time investment wise).

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If I could like your post more than once, I would. This...THIS right here. Devs, please read it.

Let's not beat around the bush here, Eureka is boring. It's boring to do, it's boring to watch (streaming FFXIV is a very popular advertising, and this isn't putting the best foot forward,) and there's no feeling of accomplishment waiting for you at the end of it. No unique LOOKING weapon, just a shiny version of a weapon you've had since the start of Stormblood.

The previous Relic weapons had unique instances (Chimera and Hydra,) beast tribe integration and crafter/melder utility. They had MULTIPLE steps to a single stage of weapon refinement, to break up the monotony of it. Basically, what Eureka needs desperately is....more. It just needs more! More stones dropping more often. More things to do besides mob killing. Unique things to do than mob killing. I'd even take books again, that make me venture throughout Eureka, searching for CERTAIN mobs to kill, rather than just, any. MAKE. ME. QUEST!!

I'm fine with the concept of "here's an open world zone, go grind stuff for hours." I really am. But something that really irks me is that you're getting no loot besides some crystals here and there. I think that aetherial gear from Diadem should drop here, but make it only usable in Eureka. That way, you have an additional feeling of progress and can feel rewarded more often when you hunt for pieces with the perfect substats. Also, I think this is a venue where we could see unique, ability-augmenting affixes on gear. Let us do some experimentation and have some fun with our classes as we grind endlessly, again giving us that rewarding feeling when the piece that changes/perfects our build drops. I really think just shaking up the combat system (no, magia doesn't really do this) and having a wider variety of rewards would make the overarching grind more tolerable.

I also think that they really missed the opportunity to implement open dungeons in Eureka. Those are very much in spirit with its old-school-influenced design.

[18:51]You lose 9032 elemental experience points.

This is simply too harsh at level 6 and needs adjusting down. Worse when your death was actually helping others get their quest done ^^;;;;

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Originally Posted by Niqote

[18:51]You lose 9032 elemental experience points.

This is simply too harsh at level 6 and needs adjusting down. Worse when your death was actually helping others get their quest done ^^;;;;

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This is exacerbated by the fact that SE has too much faith in the playerbase that they would actually go and help other players, so if you asked for a raise, fully knowing everyone is suffering from horrible exp penalties on death, you might get one. Instead you're met with vitriol of the very kind you'd expect. "Shouldn't have died scrub" "Waste of time" "Get rekt" "lolno, not risking my exp to help you" "no, you deserve to lose exp" "uninstall noob"

It's what I've always come to expect of this community, and it has never failed to let me down.

I've seen more people helping each other out than not tbh. Most requests for a rez get one. If you try to solo run up on someone's farming spot they might get you killed though for trying to mooch.

My main complaint about Eureka is the same as I had with Ixion- the character load cap. I get that there needs to be one, and that's fine but unless I missed something really important there needs to be prioritization for YOUR PARTY and ENEMIES to load over the random rabble. As a healer I would really really love to not have my tank die on NMs because I simply can't target them unless I take two steps to the left, stick my pinky out and sing the alphabet backwards in a British accent. Same thing for a dps, if i walk too far from the boss (DISPLACEMENT FTW AGAIN) it vanishes and becomes untargeted along with all its effects.

Since I can finally post again after the post limit of yesterday...my suggestions (not sure if that can really make Eureka worthwile..)

- Daily Quests: You could use different tasks to solve them. Maybe a quest from every NPC there, some where you have to gather stuff, some where you have to kill monsters with a certain element. The reward should be a nice amount of crystals and exp! This way people can at least use the grind to get something out of it, instead of hoping for RNG to smile to them.

- Increase NM spawns: I am not much of a fan for hunting but for me, those NM are the most interesting content in Eureka and at least something where you need to work together and use a bit of our brains..but having only a really low chance to see even one or two of them makes this whole instance quite boring and like hunts people are going on mass there, making the fight of lower NM either a joke or barely playable..you could have some lower NM that can be defeated by smaller groups and that spawn constantly around the map (and give less rewards) and then you can have the more rare ones that need a big amount of people but also give you more rewards. This way people can still farm for the other kind of crystal and the lootboxes, gain Exp a bit faster and have something more to do other than killing easy monsters and if less people are playing Eureka you might still have a chance to defeat such a NM even with a small group.

- Gathering/Crafting: Killing stuff over and over again will get boring for a lot of people over time and makes one quite tired from the constant button smashing. This could be a bit changed if you introduce gathering/crafting quests in there. For example you will need 20 certificates to start a gathering quest. These certificates drop from monsters (but it should be guaranteed!) so you need to slay 20 monsters of any level. This way people still need to fight but at least after killing 20 monster they can go to a NPC that will give them a book which then will show them the gathering spots for the rest of the timer. Maybe they could even sell certain potions that will 100% hide you from monsters for more certificates or gil. So now after fighting a bit they can go around and gather. Either you get all the stuff that you could gather in the Diadems and maybe some of the more rare ones from the treasure maps and/or you can do some quests where you have to gather some specific items for the NPCs..the first one would be a way to just get other stuff from Eureka and the quests ones could give you a bit of crystal and exp too. IMO I would want both of them. The same applies to crafters too but imo just having gatherers here would be enough.

- Job change outside the city: I dont think that I need to explain much about this. Its just a bit annoying to be out in the field and yet cant change the job..so if a group suddenly needs a healer and I am there as a DD I first would have to go back to the sanctury and change there..please change that.

- Bigger iLvl for weapons and gear: We already lost some steps since this content was delayed so much. And at the same time this is a huge grind. It would be way better if the end version of this steps shows this with a way higher iLvl.

- More Exploration: I honestly thought that Eureka also would be partly about exploration. Its kinda a new landmass for us and yet you get nothing truly for going around the land. We could also have some quests here that could sent us all around the map to gather stuff for NPCs since they also dont really know what happened with the land. And on top of that people should get the chance to gain lootboxes from explorations. Maybe everytime you go into Eureka 3-5 boxes will spawn randomly around the map for the player. So you would get a bit of loot just by going around the map and trying to find them. This is also a way to give people the chance to get the loot from the boxes without having to kill NM. It would not make the NM useless since you would not get any exp or crystals from it but at least increases the chance for the personal loot.

That are the first few suggestions after playing it twice. They could have done so much with it and yet we barely got the minimum. Hopefully some suggestions in this thread will reach their ear and maybe they will change it..it honestly cant get much worse anyway..

Edit (post limit ftw):

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

Yeah, a lot of people are trying to do the bare minimum and think they can judge this content without improving their hunting strategies. I also think a lot of people don't understand the difference between anemos crystals and pure crystals.

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Or maybe people already know that stuff and still dont like it? You kinda make it sound that everyone who does not enjoy this zone is kinda stupid? There was a reddit post about being more efficient inside it and yet people also posted that they did it that way too and yet still dont like it. Sometimes content is simply not your taste, the problem is when this is something people waited for months, gated the whole relic behind it and seemingly is something not enjoyable for a big amount of people. Also this is kinda a thread about constructive suggestions, so it would be kinda nice to see more of that. ;)

Eureka kind of gives me adoulin vibes so maybe add things like colonization and wilderskeeper reives in. Definitely want to second the exp penalty being harsh mentioned above. 10% of current tnl should be good (think that's what it was in ffxi. Maybe experiment with secondary stats like heal potency, hp converted to mp, and or double/triple/quad attack on gear for some horizontal progression. Overall though I found getting to grind exp ffxi style, the blood aggro mobs and the ffxi feel to be a good base to build on. Kinda feel bad for the devs because people complain about 14 sticking to the dungeons trials raids model then this throws in something hearkening back to older mmos and it's almost nothing but salt.