Plot migration and why the housing problem persists, SE please start listening.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example. . . .While I'm not force to buy a Small House, I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

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This is the biggest problem with your post: you want a house, but unless it’s the one you want, it’s not “good enough” for you, is what this sentence makes it sound like. You are not more entitled to a house (or a specific house) than anyone else, Relocators or First-Time Buyers or FCs. For all the complaints I see about this release of housing, they always revolve around “I’m not going to get the plot I wanted!” to “I’m being forced to make do with a small house when I don’t want a small! I want a large/medium! I should be able to have what I want!”

Instead of advocating for taking away plots from other people who want them just as much as the next person does, why aren’t people advocating for them to increase the number of mediums/larges? It won’t be a permanent solution, because there will always be a shortage (and there will always be people that are mad they didn’t get “the plot they wanted”), but it’s better than basically saying “I deserve it more than you do”.

I just take issue with how entitled that sounds. You (general you) do not deserve a plot any more than the next person does.



Let me share my story about housing, for anyone who wants to know—it gives some insight into why I feel the way I do/why I have my opinions:

I did not participate in the 3.3 Launch, because, well, I didn’t have enough money for a house at the time so why bother. But a friend of mine did. She was after Plot 11/41 in the Lavender Beds (i.e., The God-Tier Medium plot). She gets in relatively fast (Cactuar was still pretty mid-pop back then, not as large as it is nowadays), but sadly, all 8 of that specific plot were already gone. Her response? “I didn’t get THAT PLOT, and now I’m quitting the game!!!” We, her friends, managed to convince her to stay, and even tried to tell her there was a medium near the house of the FC that I was currently in (we presented this as a great time for us to all be neighbors, since she was in a different FC from us and didn’t want to leave it because she liked it). We had to spend several hours convincing her to at least take another medium plot (I want to place the emphasis on “medium” here—we weren’t even asking her to settle for a small, but another medium), even though it wasn’t the one she originally wanted.

Come Shirogane’s announcement at Fanfest. She decides to let her nice medium in the Beds auto-demolish, because she wanted to get a house (specifically a mansion) in Shirogane, and they had not yet announced the idea of relocation (as far as I recall they had not, anyways). We, her friends, tried to convince her to wait/think about it for a little bit (especially given the way she reacted after not getting Plot 11/41) because we knew there was a chance she may end up without a house at all, but she didn’t want to, so she let her plot auto-demolish for 80% of the cost.

Shirogane gets closer, and launches in a spectacular disaster. She managed to get in with no errors, but was 900+ in queue, and by then, all the mansions were gone (apparently there were still a few mediums left, but mostly smalls?—I can’t back this up by more than just my friend’s hearsay, because I had a faulty/unresponsive launcher, 2 lobby server errors, a 90k, and was 1,600+ in the queue). Her response again? “I didn’t get the house I wanted! I’m quitting the game!” We tried to convince her to buy another plot so that she could try to relocate in the future (since this would at least be something: she wouldn’t have the plot she wanted, but she would at least have a Shirogane house, which she really wanted to have a house there), but she refused. We spend more hours convincing her not to quit the game, especially after Yoshida announced they would be adding more Wards.

Finally comes this housing release. Sometime between the 3.3 and 4.1 housing releases, she had branched off from her old FC and started her own, so for 4.2 she was looking to get one for her FC (I think she had intended for the 4.1 house to be an FC one as well, but I’m not sure; she still really wanted a personal house at that time). However, she was unaware of the rules surrounding alt characters in FCs, and one of our friends had an alt in her FC back from when she was first getting it started, while his main was the master of another FC. She tried to buy a plot, and it wouldn’t let her (because of the restriction on alts). Meanwhile, myself and another friend had celebrated that we had managed to get some houses—I just posted a simple comment in our shared LS of “I got a mansion for my FC! :D” and that was it. I didn’t know until a few seconds later that she had been unsuccessful in her attempts.

After I figured out what the problem was, I tried to tell her what she could do to remedy it (all she had to do was just kick the alt and she would have been golden). But, by then, all the Shirogane mansions were gone. I proceeded then to tell her “There are tons of mansions everywhere else; I know they aren’t Shiro, but try to get one and you can always relocate to Shirogane later on”. I suggested the Lavender Beds, because there was very little competition there at the time for mansions, and it’s still a very nice area that I knew she also liked. Well, she wasn’t hearing any of that. Some more back and forth between us, and she has subsequently blocked me on Discord and Facebook, and is no longer wanting to be friends with me. Because I “just didn’t understand”, was “rubbing it in her face” that I had managed to get a house, and I “knew how much she wanted a mansion in Shirogane” and that she “didn’t want to settle for anything else”. By the way, we had been friends since 2011–way before either of us were playing FFXIV.


This is where my issue lies: the way my friend acted was so terribly entitled, that I am finding a hard time having sympathy for her, especially after she turned on me for just simply saying ONCE in the LS that I managed to get a house. I feel similarly towards a lot of the comments I see here about the housing, too—

It really sucks when you don’t get the plot you want. I know that; I’ve been there. But I still think that at least owning a house gives you a leg-up/an advantage later on, especially with the new relocation feature added. It may not be ideal, but, for me personally, if the choice is between “not having a house” and “not having my dream house but still at least having one”, I would take the latter. I also think a better response is “We should advocate for increased numbers of larges/mediums” rather than “Take away the larges/mediums from the people that relocated because I want their plot”.

However, I realize not everyone is me, nor do I think they should all think how I do. That being said, I just wish people would at least consider alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

But the issue of "I wont settle for anything but my dream plot!" is something instanced housing cant fix either.

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Actually, that is again something "only" instanced housing really is capable of fixing, because instances can be changed a lot easier in their layout than the rest of the world. Landscape editing is something you generally don't want to allow people in public space as it affects others, but in an instance, you can (theoretically) allow people to build a death mountain to put their house on top, or a placid beach, or a lush jungle or somewhere underwater. With the right tools, you can simply make it your dream plot from a blank canvas.

For this game in particular, the only thing I'd consider realistic in that regard would be themed presets you can switch between from a menu outside, as the devs like to keep things on rails (in many regards). They could make this a new gil sink, tho - Releasing new presets ever so often that can be bought with gil.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Browsing on Reddit, I saw someone actually make a suggestion I thought was pretty good:

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

I think that would be a good solution. Have plots keep their current Grade ratings, and when someone goes to purchase one, they can have the option to purchase the plot as a small plot, a medium plot, or a large plot. And then pay the respective price based off of the Grade + Plot Type they want to purchase.

Wishful thinking, hoping the developers decide to implement a system like this, but I feel like it could be a compromise to the various complaints surrounding the limited number of mediums/larges versus the large number of smalls there are.

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Unless upgrading only affects the interior, this really wouldn't work at all. It would require a ridiculous amount of resources to even attempt, for multiple reasons.

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

And while each ward wouldn't always have 30 large houses, with the maximum amount of outdoor furnishing slots used (+ 90 fully planted garden plots), the server would still have to be prepared to be able to handle that.

^ Yeah because no one needs neighbors really!...

I would also like my dream house come true in this game, be it an entire ward or something made from scratch, it wouldn't matter as long as it was what I wanted, I would like an entire castle for myself for example but it may be too complex to do!...

Let's hope the Producer reads this and then see if they're willing to do it or not!...

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

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I'm with Hyomin that the true problem is not having enough mediums/larges, but these are good points to consider. What if wards simply had half the number of houses? Would that be a viable compromise if a majority of them were medium/large?

They'll never modify current wards in such a way, but it may be something to think about when designing new neighborhoods in the future.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It really sucks when you don’t get the plot you want. I know that; I’ve been there. But I still think that at least owning a house gives you a leg-up/an advantage later on, especially with the new relocation feature added. It may not be ideal, but, for me personally, if the choice is between “not having a house” and “not having my dream house but still at least having one”, I would take the latter. I also think a better response is “We should advocate for increased numbers of larges/mediums” rather than “Take away the larges/mediums from the people that relocated because I want their plot”.

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This, just so much this. I got a small in Shirogane in 4.1 because I wasn't able to attain a medium and didn't care for a large (far too large for just me and the wife, while medium was the right size for what we wanted to do with it). That small, we worked on it, we made it beautiful and we adored it, but we just couldn't do everything that we dreamed of. I knew I was gonna try and relocate right after buying it, because Medium was a dream and it would open up the nice little plot we had for someone else to enjoy. If we failed on another Medium, then at least we had this small which we still enjoyed.

Come 4.2, I managed to relocate to the dream medium plot after spamming the world button and cancel like crazy when maint was ending. Now my dream is a reality and I couldn't be happier, and someone else can enjoy the little plot we had before, even if it isn't their dream, just like us, and can use it to make the attempts on their dream, again just like we did.

In my honest opinion, if people choose the former on that choice, they really don't deserve a house.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Unless upgrading only affects the interior, this really wouldn't work at all. It would require a ridiculous amount of resources to even attempt, for multiple reasons.

Map space: They would have to rework the map for each district, to make sure there'd be enough space for 30 large houses.
Garden/front yard: They're already careful about adding even a few more outdoor furnishing slots to each house size. If they were to allow players to upgrade to a large house, that'd increase the possible amount of outdoor furnishings from 730 to 1200. If plants in a garden plot also count as similar objects, that'd add another possible 344 objects.

And while each ward wouldn't always have 30 large houses, with the maximum amount of outdoor furnishing slots used (+ 90 fully planted garden plots), the server would still have to be prepared to be able to handle that.

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I never said it would be an easy fix; I even said it’s wishful thinking to think they would implement a system like this because everyone knows how stubborn they are to leave things as is. But considering people are complaining so frequently about how there aren’t enough Larges/Mediums and an overabundance of Smalls, it’s something to consider that the number of large/medium plots should perhaps be upped in any future housing releases. As for the idea itself, I thought it was a nifty one, and I’d never seen it suggested before; just thought I would share it.

I already know the devs aren’t going to revamp the system as a whole. But they need to consider some of this feedback, which is pointing towards the lack of large/medium plots. Which are highly desirable, at least on NA/EU (I’ve heard JP doesn’t like large plots as much).

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

This, just so much this. I got a small in Shirogane in 4.1 because I wasn't able to attain a medium and didn't care for a large (far too large for just me and the wife, while medium was the right size for what we wanted to do with it). That small, we worked on it, we made it beautiful and we adored it, but we just couldn't do everything that we dreamed of. I knew I was gonna try and relocate right after buying it, because Medium was a dream and it would open up the nice little plot we had for someone else to enjoy. If we failed on another Medium, then at least we had this small which we still enjoyed.

Come 4.2, I managed to relocate to the dream medium plot after spamming the world button and cancel like crazy when maint was ending. Now my dream is a reality and I couldn't be happier, and someone else can enjoy the little plot we had before, even if it isn't their dream, just like us, and can use it to make the attempts on their dream, again just like we did.

In my honest opinion, if people choose the former on that choice, they really don't deserve a house.

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I’m in a similar boat to you. I obtained a small house some time during the last months of Heavensward. Just happened to be browsing the Lavender Beds and see the plot open. I rushed and immediately purchased it, and I was in love with that small. Was it a mansion? No. Was it the Plot 11/41 god-tier medium? No. But I had a house, and I was happy. Come Shirogane, I was screwed over by a faulty launched and lobby errors, so I was unable to relocate to plot 16/46 (which was the mansion I wanted in Shirogane), but after my anger subsided—which was directed more at the launcher and server stability, not at the fact that I didn’t get a house because I was prepared going in to walk away with nothing—I still had a house, and at least there was that. Come 4.2, I managed to not only get a large in the Beds for my FC, but relocate my small to Plot 41 in the Lavender Beds. I played The Housing Game, and managed to eventually get what I wanted. I think that others should at least consider playing The Game, too. Because it only increases their odds of at least getting IN the housing system, and obtaining the plot they want at a later date. It worked in my favor; it worked in several other people’s favor. And while it’s not a perfect system (Housing in general isn’t a perfect system), I took having that small over not having a house at all. (I actually feel really nostalgic about my small; little sad that no one has bought it up yet since I vacated it, and it’s sad to think that people think they’re above Small plots in a market where you’re lucky to even have a house to begin with...)

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Actually, that is again something "only" instanced housing really is capable of fixing,

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...you missed my point a bit - while yes, thats true and changing the "background" to suit your favoured view could (only) be fixed by instanced housing, my point was rather: People still wont be happy.
Yesterday I replied to a thread where someone spoke out against instanced housing because it would lose the neighboury-feel (that a lot of us dont seem to have in the first place though) and would be bad for RP...
So yeah, my point was rather: People will always find something to complain.
Maybe I'm just a bit burnt out on seeing all these threads spread out of the ground like mushrooms, repeating themself over and over again just because someone else now discovered that the housing system is less than optimal but didnt discover the 50 threads we already had on this issue.
Me being fed of and getting a bit snarky and cynic with this by now is obviously a personal problem and I'll probably refrain from further discussions like this - this isnt targetted against you, Zojha, this is just someone who had it with people acting all entitled but arent willing to put any effort in.
Housing was/is supposed to be a bit exclusive, prestige content - specially large and medium houses (I still wish, prices would reflect that again). And I bet that half of the people who are complaining now about not getting a large house will complain how its not special anymore once everyone can have one...

...sorry, personal rant over. I'll get back to decorating my mansion in the goblet that I got by relocating a smalle lavender bed plot. You may burn me for owning a mansion now. But since its not in Shirogane but in the less desirable goblet (for you btw, not for me - I got my dream plot, its just a dream that not many people share) you probably wont.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Browsing on Reddit, I saw someone actually make a suggestion I thought was pretty good:

—Make all plots upgradable to all sizes.

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I think this could work well/better with instanced houses aswell!
You'd buy a basic house with something thats more or less only the entrance hall of a mansion - and then you can pay additional gil to add the cellar, the first floor, maybe a balcony (one can dream), a second floor, a little tower (you know the type they throw pricesses in to prevent them from marrying)... same with the garden: Pay extra to add a chocobo-stable at a fixed location (so you wouldnt have to add it as an item to the yard), hot springs, a little pond...

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Text.

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This isn't about what house I want. I don't have an ideal house. While I'm happy SE finally limit players to one for one, they also added this whole restriction on who can buy what for this Patch. I didn't ask for this additional restriction they put on it. I'm willing to let FCs go because they honestly benefit more from it than to individual players. Me wanting a specific plot? That was long crushed when this Patch went live. I felt that if this Patch of Housing was more geared to FCs who don't have a House or wanted a bigger House, should've only benefited FCs. I've already waited this long for a House and can without a doubt continue to wait cuz once the next expansion hits, we'll be right back to this same discussion. Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

If you want more chances at mediums in the game, advocate instead for upping the number of medium plots, rather than advocate for taking plots away from people.

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Honestly, what you say about the ability to upgrade plots into larger houses, I'm in full support of that idea. I'm not advocating to take away plots from people. Why would I want that? I just don't want a fine line between Individuals with Homes and Individuals without Homes.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in a snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

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You still have a chance to get in on the Housing market—even if you have to “settle for a small”, you will still have a house, and be able to take advantage of the Relocation feature in the future, because I doubt that it’s going to go away any time soon. You’re just choosing not to, and I personally don’t understand why, except out of this idea that you don’t want to settle for having a small house when you want a medium, which you stated in an earlier post:

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I'll use myself as an example:

I want to buy a Medium House. . . .I'm not saying everyone is looking to buy a bigger house but it now takes away more options from me when others upgrade their house or shuffle around houses because everyone who owns a house, is free to do it with no restriction. The house I want to get, may no longer be an option because the plots I had an eye for, are taken now, leaving a lot more small plots open or for me to now look into other areas that might still have larger houses available. This isn't fair to individuals who were looking to buy a bigger house. We still gotta compete with other individuals who are also looking to buy a bigger house, with now less options. . . .then to those who don't have a house, are left with leftovers and it may not be exactly what you want. While I'm not force to buy a Small House, I'm also not gonna just buy any random house to just have it.

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But again, if you want more chances at mediums in the game, advocate instead for upping the number of medium plots, rather than advocate for taking plots away from people. You are not more entitled to house than the next person. Say you wanted Plot 11 in the Lavender Beds, or Plot 30 in Shirogane. Well, I’m sorry, but you’re not entitled to take it from whoever owns it, just like they wouldn’t be entitled to take it from you if the roles were reversed.


I also want to point out that not everyone is going to relocate either if/when more housing is added in the future. Sure, there were people upgrading with Shirogane and 4.2’s Housing release, but the vast majority stayed right where they were originally (at least on my server—several plots in the old wards may have opened up, but it was not the majority of them). I know when the next wave of housing comes along, I won’t be relocating my personal. I wouldn’t trade Lavender Beds, Plot 41 for anything.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

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Given this point, SE made housing too cheap. If housing was meant for FCs mainly, this means giving out prices for houses that reflect people pooling gil together, this means something like 50 mil for small, 100 mil for med and 150 mil for large (prices need to very depending on gil per server) They need prices to match the supply they can give, otherwise you end up with this shortage nonsense they got currently.

It would been much better if they had an instance system for personal and the current wards for FC. SE messed up housing in several ways:
-housing too cheap in comparison of the supply they are able to give
-letting people muti-box for housing
-4 people per fc to buy a house is not strict enough
-encourage people to tenant more

They should address the house hording for resell long ago, Why didn't they give the update we have now once they released subwards or have this change in HW release?
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Orignally housing was FC only when release, and it was much more expensive.

It also varied on price based on the server economy.

They had said that personal housing would be different and cheaper than FC housing, but they just went with the quick and easy implementation of just allowing individuals to purchase ward housing.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

If they went with instance housing in the beginning, yeah it would've solved a lot of issues but that didn't happen. If anything, they shouldn't have had the need to add Apartments if they allowed us to customized our Inn Room. You're right tho, making FC Housing and Personal Housing the same was one of the biggest mistakes they ever did. I completely agree on that front. The Housing Limitation should've definitely been there since the beginning but alas, they didn't go this route.
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Yeah, the decision to allow individual players to purchase ward housing probably ruined what the devs had in mind for them leading to all the restrictions they had to put in place...

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Originally Posted by Cylla

Whole system is a punishment to everyone. No matter what restrictions they put up, don't put up, etc it a punishment. Even people who have a house are still under punishment. Why? Because of Auto-demo. We're not allowed to take extended breaks from the game, we aren't allowed to have life happen. If life happens, oh well, goodbye to your house. Have something really bad happen to the point you can't even get on 35 days after your house has been demo, to bad, goodbye all your gil and housing items. Hope you didn't have money put into any housing items that were from the mogstation because that just went bye bye also.

Point is: the system a punishment because SE can't get their act together and do something right that is fair to everyone. Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions. All on a game we pay to play and should deserve the right to keep the things we worked hard for.
....

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I recall the devs outright stating they didn't like the idea of having to pay upkeep for housing, or systems that removed it due to lack of use...

But, their decisions lead to those same systems being necessary.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

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it wouldn't matter if it didn't have the 30% off the normal price because it doesn't make much of a difference and it wouldn't stop players from moving!...
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Actually, I believe it's the % off the lowest possible price of the plot, not the starting price.
So it's much less.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Actually, I believe it's the % off the lowest possible price of the plot, not the starting price.
So it's much less.

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It is. Here’s some math I did in another thread for anyone interested in just how little you actually “save” when relocating:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It only subtracts 30% of the lowest possible plot price from the plot you relocate to.

So, if you relocated from a small Grade 5 plot (3,000,000 gil) to a Grade 1 medium (20,000,000 gil), you only save 30% of the lowest price for that small plot, which is negligible (in this situation):
—The lowest price for a Grade 5 Small is 1,488,000 gil
—30% of that is only 446,400 gil
—So the purchase price of that Grade 1 Medium is 19,553,600 gil.

If you relocate from a Grade 3 Medium (18,000,000 gil) to a Grade 3 Large (45,000,000 gil):
—The lowest price for a Graede 3 Medium is 8,928,000 gil
—30% of that is only 2,678,400 gil
—So the purchase price of the Grade 3 Large is 42,321,600 gil

It’s not a flat 75% price reduction on the plot you move to. People that relocate technically spend more gil on housing than people who look to purchase for the first time, depending on the situation. In the scenario where a Grade 5 Small moved to a Grade 1 Medium, that individual would spend 22,903,600 gil, as opposed to a new purchaser, who would only spend 21,000,000 mil (this is including the cost of a building permit, which is 1,000,000 gil for medium houses); in the scenario where a Grade 3 Medium moved to a Grade 3 Large, they would have spent a total of 61,321,600, where as a fresh buyer would spend 48,000,000 gil (the building permit for a large is 3,000,000).

The only way people are going to significantly save are if they relocate and downgrade, which would not really be a negative of the relocation feature, or if the more expensive plots were able to devalue to their lowest possible purchase price. And, let’s be honest: it’s not a likely situation nowadays that a Grade 1 Large/50,000,000 gil plot is going to be able to devalue to 24,800,000 gil.

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Like I said, the only way to save significantly would be to either massively downgrade your plot, or be lucky enough to secure a larger/higher grade plot when it has managed to fully devalue. And, let’s face it, what’s the likelihood of the latter situation actually happening?

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I recall the devs outright stating they didn't like the idea of having to pay upkeep for housing, or systems that removed it due to lack of use...

But, their decisions lead to those same systems being necessary.

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That is correct.
They kept making promises about how they weren't going to have house removal and the likes and yet here we are, just as you said, because of their decision to half ass the housing system, we are now punished for it. It only necessary because they screwed up badly.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

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SE will continue the model in all future housing releases. Anyone looking to get a private house should buy one as soon as they open for individuals. A placeholder of any size in any city state. You will be able to relocate later but you will never get a fair chance to directly buy your dream plot as soon as more wards are released. I don't think it should be this way but there's nothing we can do about it.

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We're sure there will be various comments regarding the current restriction on purchasing an estate for personal use; however, we would like to give opportunities to free companies without an estate to purchase first. When new plots are added in the future, we’re planning to apply the same measures. Once enough plots have been distributed to free companies, we will remove the restriction on purchasing an estate for personal use.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/357237

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Orignally housing was FC only when release, and it was much more expensive.

It also varied on price based on the server economy.

They had said that personal housing would be different and cheaper than FC housing, but they just went with the quick and easy implementation of just allowing individuals to purchase ward housing.

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and it should STILL be that way.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

This isn't about what house I want.

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does not flow with:

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

To those who don't see the issue with relocating, are not seeing it from the prospective of someone who doesn't own a house. I'll use myself as an example:

I want to buy a Medium House. 4.2 rolls out and only allows for FC purchases and relocating for owners of a house. New/Old FCs come in and buy or relocate to a big house. Keep in mind that Large and Medium Houses are very limited compare to Small Houses.

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So there is lots of smalls open I assume right now for people to buy as personal still left. I still think there is going to be a shortage because they are too cheap in comparison of supply. regardless this sounds too much of entitlement. When something is limited, everyone is not entitled to said object (I disagree with having hosing so limited, they should done better to allow people have some kind of house) but we need to keep in reason with this discussion with what we have now.

Someone that I know that loaned some gil to someone, on that server goblet meds where open for a long while. Though the person that got the loan would preferred a different plot, they where happy to at least to have some medium. I think you should read HyoMinPark's story again.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It is. Here’s some math I did in another thread for anyone interested in just how little you actually “save” when relocating:



Like I said, the only way to save significantly would be to either massively downgrade your plot, or be lucky enough to secure a larger/higher grade plot when it has managed to fully devalue. And, let’s face it, what’s the likelihood of the latter situation actually happening?

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You never save gil relocating. If you do move large to small it is effectively paying 50 mil for the small.

relocating is always more of a cost then buying new.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Say SE continues this model in future patches. Is it fair to those that waited this long, to be sat in a corner and watch current Home Owners come in and snatch up possible new plots in the next expansion all because "it's fair" to those who have to pay more?

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Yes it is fair with what they have to do with their limited resource, you are not entitled to something of limited resource. You are effectively complaining about having a less of a chance of a plot you want vs having a house because house relocation doesn't magically decrease the number of plots to someone buying new.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

You never save gil relocating. If you do move large to small it is effectively paying 50 mil for the small.

relocating is always more of a cost then buying new.

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I know that. But others seem to be under the impression that people who relocate save massive amounts of gil, when that’s not the case. The savings from relocation are insignificant because people are essentially still paying for two plots—the only way to have significant savings (i.e., get a better relocation discount), is to significantly downgrade your plot (you’ll technically “get more” out of the relocation discount, even though you’ll have still spent more gil overall) or if plots were able to devalue fully (which, they aren’t). You will still be spending more money overall, just the “discount” for relocating will be more significant.
The thread I originally quoted myself from, the OP was saying that people relocate and save a bunch of gil doing so, when they actually don’t, and was advocating for people who relocate to pay for the full price of the plot because the relocation discount encourages them to relocate more due to “saving gil”, and it’s not fair for people who have to pay the original purchase price of the plot, not a “discounted price”.

That being said, it is “technically” possible for people to spend less on relocation—e.g., they originally purchased a plot at a devalued price, and then relocated to a plot that was also at a devalued price—but such a situation is unlikely to occur at this point in the Housing System’s life, because houses are more affordable than they were in the past, and the demand for them is higher thanks to a large playerbase.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I know that. But others seem to be under the impression that people who relocate save massive amounts of gil, when that’s not the case. The savings from relocation are insignificant because people are essentially still paying for two plots—the only way to have significant savings (i.e., get a better relocation discount), is to significantly downgrade your plot (you’ll technically “get more” out of the relocation discount, even though you’ll have still spent more gil overall) or if plots were able to devalue fully (which, they aren’t). You will still be spending more money overall, just the “discount” for relocating will be more significant.

That being said, it is “technically” possible for people to spend less on relocation—e.g., they originally purchased a plot at a devalued price, and then relocated to a plot that was also at a devalued price—but such a situation is unlikely to occur at this point in the Housing System’s life, because houses are more affordable than they were in the past, and the demand for them is higher thanks to a large playerbase.

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Yep, it is technically possible, but realistically impossible. When you read stories like all larges are gone within the minute of servers go live, all meds a few hours after, there is no time for you to get the first tic of devaluation. (really interesting housing story of your friend btw, i would like to tell you some of the ones i heard in a more private matter but alas. Sad your friend decided to end a friendship after so long from something based on that is not even real or something you can really keep.)

edit: yeah i know, I was there too to call BS on that. I think I too had a math post just after yours on there.

I've already said my piece on the manner. Paint me or label me as you want, it won't change how I feel on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

SE will continue the model in all future housing releases. Anyone looking to get a private house should buy one as soon as they open for individuals. A placeholder of any size in any city state. You will be able to relocate later but you will never get a fair chance to directly buy your dream plot as soon as more wards are released. I don't think it should be this way but there's nothing we can do about it.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/357237

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(No comment, I'll just leave it at that.)

I don't get why they just don't make some sort of housing program for each major patch for example they put an announcement that for you to get a house you need to send in a application and listed in that application is the size plot you want and where you want it and how much it will be? so SE knows basically exactly how many wards to open up. So if people miss the application dead line they would need to wait until the next application cycle to get in on a house. This way people get the size plot they want where they want it all they have to be willing to do is pay the max amount of gil before devaluation happens. If too many people are asking for large/medium why not just make wards with just large and mediums? All that would need to be done would be to readjust the plot sizes by taking out small houses that very few seem to want?

just my 2 cents anyways.

I kind of read these threads as a "WAH i want it for me!"

the reason everyone says ffxiv housing is terrible is because it's actually the most amazing housing in any mmo.
Actual persistent neighborhoods where you can walk around the streets or just sit in your yard and watch other houses and people
VS housing in most other games that is just an instanced house on a square of land floating in the aether
Quality like that comes at the cost of it taking actual server resources to maintain IE limited availability

We have apartment buildings giving all the instanced rooms in the world, we have the inn rooms giving all the functionality, we have guild rooms giving personal living space inside an FC house.

Yes gardening is an issue for some, but they did say they are trying to address that for apartments
and workshops should no longer be an issue for any existing fc and they'll probably have apartment workshops before it becomes an issue again

I personally missed the shirogane rush due to a login error and having well over enough for a large i went back to towns and watched crystals and got a small in a horrible location in mist, couldn't even see the beach, because having a house was more important than having the perfect house.
This relocation felt like a reward for all the people that said I will participate even if i can't get perfection. I logged in so smoothly this time and went straight to the coveted shiro 30 and tagged the board and all i had to do was click that final confirmation but i left it for guilds and got my favorite medium in the goblet

We have so much available personal space for anyone at this point, the actual houses really are just a grand luxury.

You do save some gil when you relocate not much of course, but you do pay less then someone who just buys.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

You do save some gil when you relocate not much of course, but you do pay less then someone who just buys.

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Except you already paid a lot more for the initial plot than you save on the new, so in total you paid a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Except you already paid a lot more for the initial plot than you save on the new, so in total you paid a lot more.

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Why would you count the plot you initially bought though? Also if it was a G5 small you didn't pay much for it.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Why would you count the plot you initially bought though? Also if it was a G5 small you didn't pay much for it.

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Because that's part of how you obtained the new plot. You're trading in something you own for a 30% discount of the reduced price of it for the new thing. That's 70% of the reduced price lost, so if you bought at max price that's even more money lost within the trade. You lose out more than you get reduced.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Why would you count the plot you initially bought though? Also if it was a G5 small you didn't pay much for it.

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Because the only way you get the discount is if you initially purchased that plot?

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Because that's part of how you obtained the new plot. You're trading in something you own for a 30% discount of the reduced price of it for the new thing. That's 70% of the reduced price lost, so if you bought at max price that's even more money lost within the trade. You lose out more than you get reduced.

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I suppose but IMO if you made back what you spent on say a small and then upgraded to a medium that had devalued some or even if it hadn't, you're still obtaining it at less then a buyer. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I suppose but IMO if you made back what you spent on say a small and then upgraded to a medium that had devalued some or even if it hadn't, you're still obtaining it at less then a buyer. That's all.

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Ok, you're thinking purely gil wise. While new buyers have to pay purely with gil, relocation pays with a house and gil. That house cost you something, therefore that worth is going into the payment.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

I suppose but IMO if you made back what you spent on say a small and then upgraded to a medium that had devalued some or even if it hadn't, you're still obtaining it at less then a buyer. That's all.

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Player 1 has one house. They paid ~4M for it.

Player 2 has one house. They paid ~4M for their original plot and decided to relocate. New house cost an additional 3M ( this is taking out the credit for the old house). Player 2 still has only one house but has now spent 7M on it.

People went from whining about not getting a house to not getting a specific plot they wanted. Wew lad.

Eh?

I have relocated from a L.Beds mansion to a Shiro mansion, and I paid something like 80 mil for this plot. Why? Because of relocation fees...
Whereas a "new" player who doesn't have a house would only pay 45 mil for this same plot.
Is that not punishment enough? I mean I disagree with having to pay such a high fee for relocation to begin with.
I mean honestly the discount is barely even noticable.

Why should current home owners get punished for moving to the "latest and greatest" when a new home owner can get a plot at the "latest and greatest" with no punishment?
Further, what if the "latest and greatest" is more to that player's taste? I am sure many people prefer eastern themed housing and it's less about the fact the ward is new and shiny - but the fact that it's more appealing to their taste. Do these people get lumped into the crowd and assume that the only reason they want to move to Shiro is because it's the "latest and greatest"?
On the flip side of that, I also know people who still prefer Mist or L.Beds over Shiro..

I think the changes they made have worked out quite well.Im on Odin server and there are still about 20 medium houses up for purchases.Glad the FC's got priority.It should have always been the way.
As for the individual houses unfortunatly in the last 24 hours a lot of fake 4 man fc's have been set up to purchase most of whats left of shirogame and im starting to see it in other areas too people buying up with the fake fc's before indivdual houseing goes live tomorrow.
Im dissapointed that when it comes to the individual houses people arent willing to be fair about it and wait till tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

I think the changes they made have worked out quite well.Im on Odin server and there are still about 20 medium houses up for purchases.Glad the FC's got priority.It should have always been the way.
As for the individual houses unfortunatly in the last 24 hours a lot of fake 4 man fc's have been set up to purchase most of whats left of shirogame and im starting to see it in other areas too people buying up with the fake fc's before indivdual houseing goes live tomorrow.
Im dissapointed that when it comes to the individual houses people arent willing to be fair about it and wait till tomorrow.

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I'm not seeing that at all, we still have a bunch of ward 1 houses on behemoth
was even a couple mediums in ward 1's for a couple days
Seems like a silly thing to do since it forever locks you out of being part of an FC as an additional cost for the house and reselling homes won't work too well anymore

kind of looking forward to seeing the wards fill up again tomorrow. Wish i stocked up more on some of the fancier furnishing materials to take advantage

Dont get me wrong there are still plenty of individual houses up for grabs.Some of the wards are practically empty.But i have a feeling it could change by this evening.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

I'm not seeing that at all, we still have a bunch of ward 1 houses on behemoth
was even a couple mediums in ward 1's for a couple days

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...01/289/645/3ec

I look forward to the (most likely) Housing Rush. It will be fun to watch.

i think they do listen, but then they are plagued with big boys not allocating budget or are unwilling to give there team the tools to-do they job. Also take into consideration that game is still built on on top of 1.0 etc. Now i know allot of the players don't think its there problem and SE must get there act together because we pay subs, and they are wright t to-do so, and that there is no line big or small that the player can cross. But such are the game we are playing tbh! I also don't think they will ever get the demand down. So i just don't worry about it and do other things etc.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

As for the individual houses unfortunatly in the last 24 hours a lot of fake 4 man fc's have been set up to purchase most of whats left of shirogame and im starting to see it in other areas too people buying up with the fake fc's before indivdual houseing goes live tomorrow.

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I doubt that it is possible to reach rank 6 within 24 hours after having set up a fc and you need rank 6 for housing purchase rights, especially if it's "fake" meaning the leader is all by himself.
On Omega quite a lot of houses of all sizes are still available, especially in goblet, not so much in shirogane though.

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Originally Posted by Rgbg

I doubt that it is possible to reach rank 6 within 24 hours after having set up a fc and you need rank 6 for housing purchase rights, especially if it's "fake" meaning the leader is all by himself.
On Omega quite a lot of houses of all sizes are still available, especially in goblet, not so much in shirogane though.

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Yeah but people have had nearly 2 weeks now to create and level fake fc's.I'd imagine some are being used as last resort for people who wont be able to log on tomorrow after the update.