1.20 destroyed the game again ?

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

this coming from the person who has not leveled past 25?

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y no pretty asian girls in the sig >.<;;

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Quest enemies (from GC quests), leve enemies, and level 30 humanoids in Coerthas.

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If you end up killing targets so fast in duo that your husband can't get hits in, then it's time to fight higher level mobs. Generally want to stick to mobs ~10 levels above you when not solo.

Also, Lv. 25, again, is quite on the low end. That's basically 2-3 days at most. Certainly not halfway to 50. At Lv 25 you can't say you know much about the class at all. I'm not even talking about hardcore time devotion in that many days to get to 25.

As for the whole lack of abilities, I already stated this is another MMO staple. You look at the skills you are yet to gain and they motivate you to advance.
The argument being made here seems to be much more about the lack of player-controlled attack skills that do not require TP at the beginning of a fight, when engaging an enemy. Such skills remaining after 1.18 introduced Auto-Attack was simply due to the action reform having not happened yet. All they did was provide the illusion of control. They hit as hard as an AA anyway. Very few of them had much use beyond that, such as the AoE ones.

If one properly targets and engages a target as they approach it they will begin their string of AA on it right away. The fact that you aren't pushing a button does not mean your character isn't doing anything while that AA is going off. That's simply how melee classes work. If one is not fond of it, then they can play ARC or a mage.

Any delay regarding AA startup once you engage an enemy is server-related and not due to design. If anything they ninja-fixed AA even further with 1.20. Now, using buffs and/or Weaponskills no longer delays your AA. Even if you are stuck in an animation when the AA is supposed to hit, you can see it still hitting in the chatlog. The attack-delay value on weapons matters that much more now because of it. The attack-delay of AA is very reliable now.

The experiences that Rowyne has mentioned isn't something that we can scoff at and dismiss. I've leveled some of my lower level classes also and the amount of combat decisions is like a tenth of what you have to consider at rank 40 doing the content at rank 40. It is not just a matter of 'learn your combos' because at lower ranks you kinda don't have access to combos. And if you're playing solo you don't really have access to most of your combo strings because the enemy will always be facing you.

The leveling curve is quicker 1-20 and 20-30, which is good but i feel that the combat doesn't start to flourish until you get to your 30's. I think it's good that the game spoonfeeds you each ability and limits your cross class choices so you aren't 'forced' at early levels to go out and level 2 or 3 classes at once.

However, I feel as once we get the tools to get a decent light party together with ease, the combat at lower levels will become interesting, but for most of the time you are soloing/duoing. FFXI had a painfully slow skill learning curve too but we didn't play solo at all. In fact if you did play solo the combat feel echoes the feeling of the early level combat of ffxiv. We were thrust into a party setting in which immediately provided depth to the combat and what little skills we had to play with.

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Originally Posted by Zhinse

The experiences that Rowyne has mentioned isn't something that we can scoff at and dismiss. I've leveled some of my lower level classes also and the amount of combat decisions is like a tenth of what you have to consider at rank 40 doing the content at rank 40. It is not just a matter of 'learn your combos' because at lower ranks you kinda don't have access to combos. And if you're playing solo you don't really have access to most of your combo strings because the enemy will always be facing you.

The leveling curve is quicker 1-20 and 20-30, which is good but i feel that the combat doesn't start to flourish until you get to your 30's. I think it's good that the game spoonfeeds you each ability and limits your cross class choices so you aren't 'forced' at early levels to go out and level 2 or 3 classes at once.

However, I feel as once we get the tools to get a decent light party together with ease, the combat at lower levels will become interesting, but for most of the time you are soloing/duoing. FFXI had a painfully slow skill learning curve too but we didn't play solo at all. In fact if you did play solo the combat feel echoes the feeling of the early level combat of ffxiv. We were thrust into a party setting in which immediately provided depth to the combat and what little skills we had to play with.

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You can do combo's solo and you have them @ low levels i don't get what you are saying. Almost every class start's their combo's @ 10 which is easy to get. Every MMO honestly feels slow to me @ the first few lvls then that's when it really pick's up.

Edit: @ level 10 every class can do a 1>2 combo no problem. TBH the combo system is so broken for melee that if you deiced to save up 3k tp you basically never run out.

Its called progression

Got to earn the ability level of a 50, you can't have it at level one. You start at the bottom and work your way up, not the other way around.

1. why are we arguing with someone who thinks there are only 23 hours in the day?

2. i'm ranking up my pug on leves only and i'm having hell of a lot of fun doing combos by myself. invigorate > featherfoot > haymaker (stun) > runs behind mob to pounce > finish with demolish or w/e else that lights up. only complaint i had at lv37 was the lack of aoe attack. then i ding'd 38. hello aura pulse! point is...learn your new skills and have fun?

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Originally Posted by bird

1. why are we arguing with someone who thinks there are only 23 hours in the day?

2. i'm ranking up my pug on leves only and i'm having hell of a lot of fun doing combos by myself. invigorate > featherfoot > haymaker (stun) > runs behind mob to pounce > finish with demolish or w/e else that lights up. only complaint i had at lv37 was the lack of aoe attack. then i ding'd 38. hello aura pulse! point is...learn your new skills and have fun?

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1. There technically are only 23 hours in a day, so sadly he actually has some knowledge about something.

2. Exactly.

Arc isn't useless. Actually it is now one of the most useful jobs. Archer went from useless in Ifrit to wanted. My only gripe is Combo action animation. I made a new term in my LS, called Combo Lag. I can finish my three way combo, but I'm still doing the animations 3-4 seconds later. So other than Combo lag, the new battle system, is awesome. Much better than Battle Regimens, remember those? lol
As far as learning combos, maybe I just grasp complex things better than others, but at lvl 50 Arc, when they made combos, all I had to do was read the description to figure out the order in which to do them, then another hour of tweaking the placement on my action bar. Combos are not hard.

I'm just glad i am not spamming Light strike > Pummel > victimize/Concussive blow every time those skills are ready. Now i feel like every skill i have is useful to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

1. There technically are only 23 hours in a day, so sadly he actually has some knowledge about something.

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WTF?
/10char

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Originally Posted by Vili

Arc isn't useless. Actually it is now one of the most useful jobs. Archer went from useless in Ifrit to wanted. My only gripe is Combo action animation. I made a new term in my LS, called Combo Lag. I can finish my three way combo, but I'm still doing the animations 3-4 seconds later. So other than Combo lag, the new battle system, is awesome. Much better than Battle Regimens, remember those? lol
As far as learning combos, maybe I just grasp complex things better than others, but at lvl 50 Arc, when they made combos, all I had to do was read the description to figure out the order in which to do them, then another hour of tweaking the placement on my action bar. Combos are not hard.

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That Combo Lag of yours has to do with action queue. If you hit the next WS before the animation for the current one is finished, the hit will go off but the animation will be queued to go next.

One trick is to use a short animation skill right away after you queue the nest WS, and before the current WS animation is completely finished. It tends to force a skip on the animation of the next WS and shows the short animation skill straight away.

ie. Use Piercing Shot > Foeseeker > (while Foeseeker animation is just starting) Wide Volley > (before the Foeseeker animation ends) Light Shot

You end up seeing animations for Piercing Shot and Foeseeker, but then you see the Light Shot animation right as Foeseeker ends, skipping the Wide Volley animation entirely although the damage is done.

I do this currently to maximize DPS, but this should no longer be much of an issue on the new servers come 2.0.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

WTF?
/10char

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23 hours and 56 minutes afaik.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Actually, the fact that I'm still mid level gives merit to my opinion. How many new people that start this game will have patience with this combat system before they shake their heads and walk away?

I've been playing since closed beta. Just because I can't force myself to play through an empty game with no leveling content to get to 50...

Besides, classic troll response (I don't know how to logically dispute your opinion, so I'll just insult you...)

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25 is not half way, experience wise.

Currently to be level 50 you need 1,750,000 exp, or there abouts.

To be level 25 you need to have acheived 240,000 exp, or there abouts. You are not even over 1/7th of the way through your class, yet you claim to be halfway.

Level 40 is roughly about halfway, at 900,000 exp.
That's when you have the majority of abilites, hopefully some cross class abilities such as invigorate for increased TP gain, and start doing strongholds where stuff get's pretty fun.

I hope you stick around to see the halfway mark.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Skill_Points for exp chart.

Imho getting from 1 to 40 is way harder than from 40 to 50 <.<

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

Imho getting from 1 to 40 is way harder than from 40 to 50 <.<

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is it? i had an awesome exp pt where i went from 36~43 in 4 hrs so hard @.@

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

If you end up killing targets so fast in duo that your husband can't get hits in, then it's time to fight higher level mobs. Generally want to stick to mobs ~10 levels above you when not solo.

Also, Lv. 25, again, is quite on the low end. That's basically 2-3 days at most. Certainly not halfway to 50. At Lv 25 you can't say you know much about the class at all. I'm not even talking about hardcore time devotion in that many days to get to 25.

As for the whole lack of abilities, I already stated this is another MMO staple. You look at the skills you are yet to gain and they motivate you to advance.
The argument being made here seems to be much more about the lack of player-controlled attack skills that do not require TP at the beginning of a fight, when engaging an enemy. Such skills remaining after 1.18 introduced Auto-Attack was simply due to the action reform having not happened yet. All they did was provide the illusion of control. They hit as hard as an AA anyway. Very few of them had much use beyond that, such as the AoE ones.

If one properly targets and engages a target as they approach it they will begin their string of AA on it right away. The fact that you aren't pushing a button does not mean your character isn't doing anything while that AA is going off. That's simply how melee classes work. If one is not fond of it, then they can play ARC or a mage.

Any delay regarding AA startup once you engage an enemy is server-related and not due to design. If anything they ninja-fixed AA even further with 1.20. Now, using buffs and/or Weaponskills no longer delays your AA. Even if you are stuck in an animation when the AA is supposed to hit, you can see it still hitting in the chatlog. The attack-delay value on weapons matters that much more now because of it. The attack-delay of AA is very reliable now.

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actually the cap on exp gained from rank difference changes with your level, so low level there no reason to kill mobs 10 levels higher, as well as it being a lot harder to impossible.

as far as people saying your shouldnt have a level 50 ability at level 1, yeah we get that, but if your class is about dodging you should be able to dodge, if your class is about managing mp you should be able to manage mp.
And while it is not impossible to solo combo everything it is also not easy, it is way easier to combo in groups, on a side note, its easier for me to hit the back consistently than the side due to being able to run through enemies. (although this is via the very unintutive method of unlocking targets and running through the enemy)

you should have some working synergies early in the game. Most of you dont get it because you are coming to this patch at high levels, but it really is noticeable, look at your combos, and look at the levels you can get some of these skills. keep in mind that new players will not have access to the 3 or so good cross class skills, and even less reason to get them once jobs are introduced. by the time you get out of the starting area in most games, you have like 2 or 3 working synergies, that all come together to make sense together. by the time your 10 here, you have a total of 6 skills. only two of them work together and depending on your job, they may be a lot harder to pull off solo/small groups.

essentially instead of expanding off working bases, most of your skills are just pieces of puzzle, not really becoming to useful until you get X skill. for example you guys mentioned stunning someone so you can get your combo off solo, well, you dont get haymaker till 18. the whole mp for damage mechanic? doesnt come into play at all until 22. So you have this skill that gives you mp back.. but you have no native use for mp till you are 22.

this type of build only encourages powering through levels, or getting powerleveled, through the levels where you are fairly weak and many peices are missing from your combat.

Im not saying the whole system is trash, but it is tuned around having 90% of your skills, it really makes it so combat doesnt really get interesting till mid 30s and doesnt come together great till almost 50.

Doing away with all non tp moves besides 1 was a mistake imo, not very job should have the same exact slow build for tp, it makes sense as a style for one melee, but it some jobs should be able to get in there early and do something of import besides wait for tp. Its most noticeably bad early on, when the pay off for getting tp is low, and methods of getting it fast are non existent. you literally cant do anything of import at all.

I mean you can protect it all you want, but the competition for this game is only increasing, and since they have taken a long term view on the game, it needs to be able to compete with everything else. and it needs to be fun ON THE WAY TO 50 while 99% of the people playing now are level 50 and like things tuned for their benefit, the truth is in order for this game to succeed it has to appeal to people more than its competition from level 1-35, because the majority of the people this game needs to succeed are not the current playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

Imho getting from 1 to 40 is way harder than from 40 to 50 <.<

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Really? I duod Thaumaturg from 10-40 in a matter of 2 days. Then again I guess that doesn't beat 1 day.

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Originally Posted by Forerunner

25 is not half way, experience wise.

Currently to be level 50 you need 1,750,000 exp, or there abouts.

To be level 25 you need to have acheived 240,000 exp, or there abouts. You are not even over 1/7th of the way through your class, yet you claim to be halfway.

Level 40 is roughly about halfway, at 900,000 exp.
That's when you have the majority of abilites, hopefully some cross class abilities such as invigorate for increased TP gain, and start doing strongholds where stuff get's pretty fun.

I hope you stick around to see the halfway mark.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Skill_Points for exp chart.

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pure exp isnt really a good measure of the halfway mark in this game for a number of reasons

1. your base exp for fighting monsters changes with your level
2. your maximum exp gain from fighting monsters of higher level changes with your level.
3. the battle system is currently designed around having most of your skills, ie you are WAAY more effective at fighting when you are 35+
4. in general you wont find as many parties till you reach 20+
5. you dont have much access to cross class skills initially (both from in game limits, and if it is your first times playing simply not having that many other jobs leveled)
6. your ability to effectively handle and kill links also changes with your level.

this comes together to form, low levels being in fact a lot slower than one would guess by looking at the total exp, most people will have an easier time getting from 35-50 than they did getting from 1-35. and i think it will actually be a lot more enjoyable post 35, that is a problem, the game needs new players to succeed. It needs to have more in place. The process of exploration and getting to the destination needs to be more fun.

why play a game that makes the process of 1-35 not fun, and leaves you with only two things to do at 50? its a bad equation.

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Originally Posted by Physic

actually the cap on exp gained from rank difference changes with your level, so low level there no reason to kill mobs 10 levels higher, as well as it being a lot harder to impossible.

as far as people saying your shouldnt have a level 50 ability at level 1, yeah we get that, but if your class is about dodging you should be able to dodge, if your class is about managing mp you should be able to manage mp.
And while it is not impossible to solo combo everything it is also not easy, it is way easier to combo in groups, on a side note, its easier for me to hit the back consistently than the side due to being able to run through enemies. (although this is via the very unintutive method of unlocking targets and running through the enemy)

you should have some working synergies early in the game. Most of you dont get it because you are coming to this patch at high levels, but it really is noticeable, look at your combos, and look at the levels you can get some of these skills. keep in mind that new players will not have access to the 3 or so good cross class skills, and even less reason to get them once jobs are introduced. by the time you get out of the starting area in most games, you have like 2 or 3 working synergies, that all come together to make sense together. by the time your 10 here, you have a total of 6 skills. only two of them work together and depending on your job, they may be a lot harder to pull off solo/small groups.

essentially instead of expanding off working bases, most of your skills are just pieces of puzzle, not really becoming to useful until you get X skill. for example you guys mentioned stunning someone so you can get your combo off solo, well, you dont get haymaker till 18. the whole mp for damage mechanic? doesnt come into play at all until 22. So you have this skill that gives you mp back.. but you have no native use for mp till you are 22.

this type of build only encourages powering through levels, or getting powerleveled, through the levels where you are fairly weak and many peices are missing from your combat.

Im not saying the whole system is trash, but it is tuned around having 90% of your skills, it really makes it so combat doesnt really get interesting till mid 30s and doesnt come together great till almost 50.

lastly, doing away with all non tp moves besides 1 was a mistake imo, not very job should have the same exact slow build for tp, it makes sense as a style for one melee, but it some jobs should be able to get in there early and do something of import besides wait for tp. Its most noticeably bad early on, when the pay off for getting tp is low, and methods of getting it fast are non existent. you literally cant do anything of import at all.

I mean you can protect it all you want, but the competition for this game is only increasing, and since they have taken a long term view on the game, it needs to be able to compete with everything else. and it needs to be fun ON THE WAY TO 50 while 99% of the people playing now are level 50 and like things tuned for their benefit, the truth is in order for this game to succeed it has to appeal to people more than its competition from level 1-35, because the majority of the people this game needs to succeed are not the current playerbase.

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PGL gets Featherfoot at what.. Lv 2 now? There's your evasion. They also equip gear that tends to have evasion+ on them. On top of that, they also gain traits that boost evasion as they level up. There goes that argument.

As I said, having a non-TP basic attack only adds an illusion of control. AA is more than proficient. There's many things that make each class unique that you can trigger from the get-go once you engage an enemy. Whether it be enmity gaining abilities for the tanking classes, block/dodge/parry enhancing buffs to use in tandem with their reaction skills, or long-lasting offensive buffs such as Raging Strike, Power/Life Surge, Fire/Earth Fists, Berserk/Rampage - there are plenty of class-defining skills that one gains at levels prior to 40-50 that they can initiate battles with.

As mentioned there are also combos possible as early as level 10.

I wouldn't say I'm protecting anything really. Just calling it as I see it.

EDIT: Also, let's not forget that the revamp is not entirely done. The game is in a satisfactory state, but clearly needs improvements in many areas. Whether anyone will want to pay to play this now is up to them - but I assure you there are people who like what 1.20 did even at lower levels just like there may be people who don't. What matters is the direction in which the game is headed with these changes.

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

I liked BR a billion times more than combos... even though it was kinda broken <.<

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well in my honest op. BR wasnt broken, in fact it was a good system the only problem was that they didnt prepare BR correctly so you could still attack having an attack stacked in it, thats the only problem it had but if you played sincronized with the other party members you could make those BR´s really fast, i remember doing multishot x 3 with 900+ dmg in each arrow fighting the ogre, so a dmg close to 3k dmg only if you included normal attacks+magic+ws+normal attacks, but to do that you needed good players in your party.

Right now the combo system is great and all but still lacks something, and i know they will add skillchains or a battle regimen more complex in order to complete the system, i dont remember in wich response they said that combos werent replacements for battle regimens so maybe we´ll have something really interesting at the end.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

PGL gets Featherfoot at what.. Lv 2 now? There's your evasion. They also equip gear that tends to have evasion+ on them. On top of that, they also gain traits that boost evasion as they level up. There goes that argument.

As I said, having a non-TP basic attack only adds an illusion of control. AA is more than proficient. There's many things that make each class unique that you can trigger from the get-go once you engage an enemy. Whether it be enmity gaining abilities for the tanking classes, block/dodge/parry enhancing buffs to use in tandem with their reaction skills, or long-lasting offensive buffs such as Raging Strike, Power/Life Surge, Fire/Earth Fists, Berserk/Rampage - there are plenty of class-defining skills that one gains at levels prior to 40-50 that they can initiate battles with.

As mentioned there are also combos possible as early as level 10.

I wouldn't say I'm protecting anything really. Just calling it as I see it.

EDIT: Also, let's not forget that the revamp is not entirely done. The game is in a satisfactory state, but clearly needs improvements in many areas. Whether anyone will want to pay to play this now is up to them - but I assure you there are people who like what 1.20 did even at lower levels just like there may be people who don't. What matters is the direction in which the game is headed with these changes.

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you dont get your pug reaction skill until 18, and you dont get use for mp till 22, so for pugilist, getting that extra dodge once every 60 seconds, while nice, has no synergy in place until level 18+

nothing you do do builds on anything else early in the leveling process, the only synergy you get early is pummel to concussive blow, which is probably the hardest combo to pull off consistently, (well probably a back>side is the worst but the side is the problem)
as far as gear, i hate to tell you but low level, most all melee will be wearing the same things, there is no low level heavy armor, no materia (materia needs level 18 before you can even try to attach it, and a crafting class, and people dont make low level gear especially with materia on it) once again you are looking at from a point of view of someone who is high level.

also most of those skills you mentioned you end up getting in mid 20s and higher, this is the problem im talking about, you start off feeling very little control in battle and it stays that way for too long.

And i do agree, that it is not finished, and need some tweaks, some of which will probably happen, but i can only speak on what is presented here, and i think they are ignoring the early leveling curve. To be totally honest before 1.20 i was ready to p2p, because it felt like they had a lot of things in place, and would be able to build in some interesting content on the world development, and refine the game a lot more, but post 1.20 i feel like its going to at least another 3to 5 months before combat is complete, probably another 6-7 months before they start putting in some interesting story content, and about 9-10 months (basically once they start implementing 2.0) before there is even a chance that there will be exploration and adventure that is fun, since they will probably hold off on a lot stuff until 2.0 so as to have less work that they have to dispose of.

It essentially went from looking like ok this game will be coming to its end in grand fashion, to this game is still being built.

maybe when jobs come it will all make sense, and at least there will be interesting quests for getting the gear, and the skills, as well as maybe some signifigant story stuff to go along with some battle adjustments. but as of right now, it needs some work imo

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Originally Posted by elreed

well in my honest op. BR wasnt broken, in fact it was a good system the only problem was that they didnt prepare BR correctly so you could still attack having an attack stacked in it, thats the only problem it had but if you played sincronized with the other party members you could make those BR´s really fast, i remember doing multishot x 3 with 900+ dmg in each arrow fighting the ogre, so a dmg close to 3k dmg only if you included normal attacks+magic+ws+normal attacks, but to do that you needed good players in your party.

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That's why I said "kinda broken". It had flaws and wasn't working well for most players.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

That Combo Lag of yours has to do with action queue. If you hit the next WS before the animation for the current one is finished, the hit will go off but the animation will be queued to go next.

One trick is to use a short animation skill right away after you queue the nest WS, and before the current WS animation is completely finished. It tends to force a skip on the animation of the next WS and shows the short animation skill straight away.

ie. Use Piercing Shot > Foeseeker > (while Foeseeker animation is just starting) Wide Volley > (before the Foeseeker animation ends) Light Shot

You end up seeing animations for Piercing Shot and Foeseeker, but then you see the Light Shot animation right as Foeseeker ends, skipping the Wide Volley animation entirely although the damage is done.

I do this currently to maximize DPS, but this should no longer be much of an issue on the new servers come 2.0.

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Gloom Arrow?

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Gloom Arrow?

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lol did I mess up the starting WS names? For some reason I remember it as Heavy Shot > Gloom Arrow > Bloodletter. Heavy and Piercing are basically identical lol I get confuzzled. The point remains though :P

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

That's why I said "kinda broken". It had flaws and wasn't working well for most players.

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coordinated party members and good players thats what you needed, bad players will be bad players no matter how easy the system is, im not saying for you or anyone special, but in all the games needs to be certain freedom on the playstile so people may have better results depending on how they play, right now combo system as it is, you dont need that much skill to be a good player, in my oppinion they should add some complexity in to the mix.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you dont get your pug reaction skill until 18, and you dont get use for mp till 22, so for pugilist, getting that extra dodge once every 60 seconds, while nice, has no synergy in place until level 18+

nothing you do do builds on anything else early in the leveling process, the only synergy you get early is pummel to concussive blow, which is probably the hardest combo to pull off consistently, (well probably a back>side is the worst but the side is the problem)
as far as gear, i hate to tell you but low level, most all melee will be wearing the same things, there is no low level heavy armor, no materia (materia needs level 18 before you can even try to attach it, and a crafting class, and people dont make low level gear especially with materia on it) once again you are looking at from a point of view of someone who is high level.

also most of those skills you mentioned you end up getting in mid 20s and higher, this is the problem im talking about, you start off feeling very little control in battle and it stays that way for too long.

And i do agree, that it is not finished, and need some tweaks, some of which will probably happen, but i can only speak on what is presented here, and i think they are ignoring the early leveling curve. To be totally honest before 1.20 i was ready to p2p, because it felt like they had a lot of things in place, and would be able to build in some interesting content on the world development, and refine the game a lot more, but post 1.20 i feel like its going to at least another 3to 5 months before combat is complete, probably another 6-7 months before they start putting in some interesting story content, and about 9-10 months (basically once they start implementing 2.0) before there is even a chance that there will be exploration and adventure that is fun, since they will probably hold off on a lot stuff until 2.0 so as to have less work that they have to dispose of.

It essentially went from looking like ok this game will be coming to its end in grand fashion, to this game is still being built.

maybe when jobs come it will all make sense, and at least there will be interesting quests for getting the gear, and the skills, as well as maybe some signifigant story stuff to go along with some battle adjustments. but as of right now, it needs some work imo

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PGL also gets it's evasion boosting trait at Lv 12. Lv. 18 also is not very high at all. One day - and that's at a moderate pace. Synergy is clearly being built as you level up.

Also solo combos are not difficult to pull off at all. The key is to turn off target lock. So you can quickly dash to the sides or through the mob to get behind it and hit the next WS. Practice makes perfect. Solo combos from every direction are all rather easy though. Sometimes I find combos while in party to be less reliable actually lol. Soon as someone else takes hate, or say with Moogles one of them drops hate and turns it screws it all up. At least when solo you have lots of control.

Some classes also combo easier than others once they gain access to certain skills. Such as PGL. They have a 10s stun on Pounce and a 5s stun on Haymaker. The stun doesn't wear off even when the enemy is attacked, so they just end up sitting there as you dash circles around them comboing to death.

When you take the time to learn and pay attention to the details, there's plenty that each class is able to do at earlier levels, yet at the same time there's also a lot of growth to look forward to - a lot of class uniqueness that comes with it. Something this game was lacking to a severe degree.

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Originally Posted by Physic

you dont get your pug reaction skill until 18, and you dont get use for mp till 22, so for pugilist, getting that extra dodge once every 60 seconds, while nice, has no synergy in place until level 18+

nothing you do do builds on anything else early in the leveling process, the only synergy you get early is pummel to concussive blow, which is probably the hardest combo to pull off consistently, (well probably a back>side is the worst but the side is the problem)
as far as gear, i hate to tell you but low level, most all melee will be wearing the same things, there is no low level heavy armor, no materia (materia needs level 18 before you can even try to attach it, and a crafting class, and people dont make low level gear especially with materia on it) once again you are looking at from a point of view of someone who is high level.

also most of those skills you mentioned you end up getting in mid 20s and higher, this is the problem im talking about, you start off feeling very little control in battle and it stays that way for too long.

And i do agree, that it is not finished, and need some tweaks, some of which will probably happen, but i can only speak on what is presented here, and i think they are ignoring the early leveling curve. To be totally honest before 1.20 i was ready to p2p, because it felt like they had a lot of things in place, and would be able to build in some interesting content on the world development, and refine the game a lot more, but post 1.20 i feel like its going to at least another 3to 5 months before combat is complete, probably another 6-7 months before they start putting in some interesting story content, and about 9-10 months (basically once they start implementing 2.0) before there is even a chance that there will be exploration and adventure that is fun, since they will probably hold off on a lot stuff until 2.0 so as to have less work that they have to dispose of.

It essentially went from looking like ok this game will be coming to its end in grand fashion, to this game is still being built.

maybe when jobs come it will all make sense, and at least there will be interesting quests for getting the gear, and the skills, as well as maybe some signifigant story stuff to go along with some battle adjustments. but as of right now, it needs some work imo

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PGL also gets it's evasion boosting trait at Lv 12. Lv. 18 also is not very high at all. One day - and that's at a moderate pace. Synergy is clearly being built as you level up.

Also solo combos are not difficult to pull off at all. The key is to turn off target lock. So you can quickly dash to the sides or through the mob to get behind it and hit the next WS. Practice makes perfect. Solo combos from every direction are all rather easy though. Sometimes I find combos while in party to be less reliable actually lol. Soon as someone else takes hate, or say with Moogles one them drops hate and turns it screws it all up. At least when solo you have control.

Some classes also combo easier than others once they gain access to certain skills. Such as PGL. They have a 10s stun on Pounce and a 5s stun on Haymaker. The stun doesn't wear off even when the enemy is attacked, so they just end up sitting there as you dash circles around them comboing to death.

When you take the time to learn and pay attention to the details, there's plenty that each class is able to do at earlier levels, yet at the same time there's also a lot of growth to look forward to - a lot of class uniqueness that comes with it. Something this game was lacking to a severe degree.

Only issue I have with thaum is that I used the same spells from 18-40.

Guide to leveling thaum solo.

-Find monster that doesn't resist lightning.
-Thunder-Thundara
-Repeat

Hell you can usually kill mobs 3-4 ranks higher than you if your fighting the apropriate monsters, I find slugs the best with other aquans in close second.

I came back to the game about 2 days ago after a year. I really hated the game when I first bought it, but I can say that now, the game has a lot of things that make me think it is finally moving in the right direction. It might be a little late for the game due to its really bad rep out there, but it is still salvageable.

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Originally Posted by elreed

coordinated party members and good players thats what you needed, bad players will be bad players no matter how easy the system is, im not saying for you or anyone special, but in all the games needs to be certain freedom on the playstile so people may have better results depending on how they play, right now combo system as it is, you dont need that much skill to be a good player, in my oppinion they should add some complexity in to the mix.

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No. The problem wasn't the players but the fact that you couldn't do anything else while being in the BR query. This locked out healers and tanks. The delay before actions appear in the queue due to server lag didn't make it much better. Sorry, but I don't see any point in a feature that only "pros" that use voicechat profit from <.<

Yeah that's exactly my one horrific glaring issue with BRs. Tanks and Healers couldn't take part if you weren't absolutely perfect with timing and even then, 2 seconds of doing nothing on an enemy that is worth using BR on is pretty much asking for death. BR's should have been more useful for parties of all sizes but that pretty much kept them to DDs in large parties only.

Would be nice if they mixed combos and BR so that players can combine skills for new and bigger combos. It could be like a different glowing color for the skill that would fit right now. This would also encourage us not to do stuff with 6 ARC/THM lol

Well they are supposed to be bringing party limit breaks/super moves of some sort, to replace battle regimens. No idea on how far away they are, though.

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Originally Posted by Coldfire

No. The problem wasn't the players but the fact that you couldn't do anything else while being in the BR query. This locked out healers and tanks. The delay before actions appear in the queue due to server lag didn't make it much better. Sorry, but I don't see any point in a feature that only "pros" that use voicechat profit from <.<

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Maybe call it a pro style, but yeah at first we needed to voice chat to coordinate, after a few days we didnt needed to talk that much if u saw someone starting BR you only stacked as fast as possible and then wait just a few seconds for others and release, before the fight if you didnt know the players you would say what to stack and wich order so at that moment nobody would stay freezed, yeah the lag issues were a pain in the ass, and as i said before if they didnt freeze ur character moves when executing BR's would have been a better system, i really wish they bring back something like that in the future but done in a better way with combos in the mix.