Raid loot is ridiculous

A weapon that never needs replacing (ilvl increases as you do) but takes 2-3 years to get...maybe...haha

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Ok there's exceptions but generally players don't meld. It's been a bit topic since they added materia. And a fairly common opinion is gear doesn't last long enough to bother melding it. Which is why so much of the t6 materia ends up on the markets because the til is worth more than a temporary stat boost.

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This is factually untrue. You needs only look at most raiders, even those on the casual side, and they are all melded. Some will use lower tier materia due to cost, but they're still melding. Old school gear models simply wouldn't work with today's demographic. People aren't interested in waiting years for a potential upgrade nor do casual players want an experience where they are several steps behind with no means of catching up. There's a reason that model has been largely abandoned.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

Just put in personal loot. If we complete a raid or dungeon, We get a guaranteed item plus a RNG Gear. For instance i go in as a ninja for omega, and finish it. I get a single cluster as my item then a random gear that actually is both for my job and helps increase my ilvl. Im now loot locked until reset. Simple really.

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We would gear by far too quickly. Guaranteeing an ilvl increase for every instance means I'll be full 340 in only two and a half weeks, provided I could clear every fight. So... what's the point of continuing to play beyond a month?

+1ing op. Loot system is bad.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

We would gear by far too quickly. Guaranteeing an ilvl increase for every instance means I'll be full 340 in only two and a half weeks, provided I could clear every fight. So... what's the point of continuing to play beyond a month?

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I don't know about you, but generally the first thing I look for in my games is if they're fun or not. Not arbitrary time gating. People will keep playing if it's fun.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

WoW raid tier loot is better for casual players. You run the dungeon and you get your gear for the week, no token needed. If you are a hardcore raider you do the higher tiers, I assume the gear is similar, but I'm not sure, I'm not in a raid guild.

This token system is horrible and bland, I agree with the OP.

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This is a great idea! I play this game casually and honestly get like 1 hour a day to play but do play more during my days off if I have no plans. Overall the loot system doesn't like players that play only a little bit here and there and only really caters to those who drop like 2+ hours a day into the game.

Tokens do seem idiotic unless you lived through having brd gear drop for the 8'th time in a run of dynamis. Literally nobody was left to give it to. What tokens do is make it possible for you to get your drop instead of hoping for rng to smile on you for your specific job ,or role. It does suck to go on a losing streak ,but you are still getting tomes each run which does amount to upgrades ,or alt gear. So at the least you are making progress albeit not the type you were hoping for.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Tokens do seem idiotic unless you lived through having brd gear drop for the 8'th time in a run of dynamis. Literally nobody was left to give it to. What tokens do is make it possible for you to get your drop instead of hoping for rng to smile on you for your specific job ,or role. It does suck to go on a losing streak ,but you are still getting tomes each run which does amount to upgrades ,or alt gear. So at the least you are making progress albeit not the type you were hoping for.

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Isn't the topic Omega normal lots and not the token system in Savage? Because if not that changes everything.

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

Isn't the topic Omega normal lots and not the token system in Savage? Because if not that changes everything.

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Op claims casting lots system is bad because of tokens where he has to roll against everyone. So kind of both? I'm confused where you conjured savage from though. :o

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Originally Posted by Umbeliel

I don't know about you, but generally the first thing I look for in my games is if they're fun or not. Not arbitrary time gating. People will keep playing if it's fun.

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Arbitrary time gates are a necessity because this content has to last 5+ months. If we can obtain BiS within a month, what reason are people going to remained subbed? That is the whole point of these gates; keeping you subbed to the game. Not to mention it incentivizes other content. I can tell you right now the only reason I bother with roulettes half the time is if I need to cap tomestones or farm Verity for my crafting. If said restrictions on loot and tomestones were removed, I'd only ever touch those dungeons when I'm bored and feel like experience them again once or twice. A lot of people have a similar mindset, which means those trying to progress in the MSQ will have longer wait times. A prime example is Coil or Alexander. Go queue into either and you'll be waiting hours before they pop. Why? Nothing to incentivize doing them nowadays, thus no one does. When I first started just after Heavensward released, I unlocked Labyrinth of the Ancients and waited nearly two hours for the queue to turn over. Flash forward to the 3.3 Anima step and suddenly it popped within 10-30 minutes depending on the time of day.

The devs are well aware time gates aren't fun nor do they intent for them to be. It's a necessary evil because they simply cannot develop content to compete with how fast we consume it. No development team can.

Might work how it is now if ever win a roll. Maybe instead of rolling on items at the end you get one trade in item each week that can turn in for which ever gear piece you want. Then wouldn't have to keep running same raids over and over hoping to win the roll on item you need.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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Perhaps then similar to how tomestomes are capped, they keep the cap on how much gear you can get in Omega Normal. But, have a system where after x amount of runs where you failed to get a drop, you're given a token that can be traded for a certain item and that locks you out of loot. It keeps us running it, and also helps add an insurance policy to those who have a major losing streak who may become disincentivised. Let's argue someone has such bad luck that after 1'000 Omega runs, they still haven't got their drop, and they've tried making PFs but people bail after getting their loot resetting the loot, and they've had lies spread about them so they can't join an FC/LS or make friends to ask for help. Sure, it's an outlier, but it does happen (I've actually been removed from an FC before because someone spreadlies about me, all because they didn't like that I tried to keep people going after a wipe by trying to be lighthearted about it).

I like the token system (apart from the whole bloating the inventory thing) because it means loot is eventually guaranteed. WoW did away with badges in lieu of personal loot and personal loot is never guaranteed... so you could go indefinitely without an upgrade. So I much prefer this.

On the other hand, it does suck to lose the rolls over and over again while just pugging.

The happy medium might be an RNG-softener where you can designate a token you really want for the week, and if that's the only thing you roll on instance after instance and keep losing, you'll get a growing bonus to your lots so eventually RNG is overwhelmingly in your favor.

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Originally Posted by Jeykama

The happy medium might be an RNG-softener where you can designate a token you really want for the week, and if that's the only thing you roll on instance after instance and keep losing, you'll get a growing bonus to your lots so eventually RNG is overwhelmingly in your favor.

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That's actually, a very good idea. Though eventually it would need to reach a point where you're guaranteed the loot. I mean if something like that were to happen, I would probably be OK with running Omega over and over to get the gear. Right now I only do O4 once a week for the Crystalloid because it's inflexible RNG for the other drops, and then cap tomestones. I could end up with extreme bad luck and run the same duty a thousand times and still not get my drop. All because RNG decides it wants to be vindictive to me. An RNG-softener which would shift the odds more in my favour the more I do it, would encourage me to face it (unless it was something ridiculous like 1 million runs for the RNG to be overwhelmingly in your favour). I don't mind someone getting lucky RNG speeding up the process, but I want a way that I can at least progress without having to bash my head again and again at something that bad RNG could mean I don't progress.

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Originally Posted by Tristann

You're just being punished for being lazy to socialize and RNGesus doesn't like lazy people. That is all. We never had to run any Omega Normal more than 8 times.

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This is one thing that drives me nuts. I do try to make friends, but because I have social and communication difficulties due to disability, I find it extremely hard (and I'm constantly getting into problems because of the difficulties with communication). And that's only with a MILD disability. People who have it more severely than I do, will have even more trouble. So we should be screwed over for finding it very hard to make connections?

the system was created like this for a reason , to keep ppl running the content , like the OP , as healer if u got what u want on 1 run , u wont running a 2nd time outside helping a friend. but now u kill the boss a 2nd or 3rd ...giving others a chance of getting the item too.

You're just being punished for being lazy to socialize and RNGesus doesn't like lazy people. That is all. We never had to run any Omega Normal more than 8 times.

I like EQ's system. Random drops plus currency everyone gets to buy pieces if RNG hates you.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

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She wasn't around for the dark days of crystal tower, hoping your item would drop from that one boss, and when it didn't having to redo the whole thing again q_q

dont worry everyone has been there with lucky moments of RNG that screw your day :)

I 100% agree with this. It's really annoying and a simple solution is to turn it into a weekly quest and let us select the item we need. Rather than leaving it in the hands of RNG and having us so angry we resent this game.

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Originally Posted by Conna

She wasn't around for the dark days of crystal tower, hoping your item would drop from that one boss, and when it didn't having to redo the whole thing again q_q

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How about even darker times. When Turn 1 dropped nothing but Goon pieces for weeks on end XD.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

I don't understand how people have the nerve to complain about the current system, which is allready a huge step into "easy peasy" from the original way raid loot worked.

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How is new system easy when run it multiple times just to never win a roll. How it is now 4 people don't get a thing for helping out. If they don't fix it I sure won't be running raids. Don't like running a dungeon or raid and feel like my time was wasted because you didn't get a thing out of it. Other mmo's played you get a item at end and keep saving them up each week to turn in for gear piece you want. then once tanks and healers get there items for week they stop then how is that going to help dps that didn't win a piece yet. Because there shortage on tanks.

I remember when video games were about having fun with the game itself.

You don't need that gear to do anything, by the time it could actually be useful there will already be new sets of even better gear.
I've always looked at raid gear as a nice bonus for raiders rather than what you're actually raiding for.
Yes we all want the best gear but if that's the only reason you're raiding then honestly I think you're doing it for the wrong reason.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

A change is needed, I hate the raid loot system as well, by the time I finally assemble a whole set something even stronger is added to the game and what I just got is no longer useful!...

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They could fix the fact that current gear is pretty much moot to hell in the next patch.
Gear is tossed around like nothing in this game.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

The thing is, unless you go do Savage, you don't need anything else than tome-stone gear. There is exactly 0 content you can do whereyou would need the 320 Items from Omega Normal - eexcept savage.

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Let me ask this then, if it is not needed, why do people do it? People shouldn't be bothering with it at all.

For people that care about salvage they penta meld crafted, and what have to say next moves into replying to this:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If the loot system bothers you, why not get the crafted stuff? If it's too expensive, level your crafters and make it yourself. The whole point of the randomized loot rolls is to ensure people continuously run it. If I could get all four of my drops in a couple of runs. I'd go in Tuesday morning and not touch it again until the following Tuesday. Crafted gear was made for people who don't want to battle RNG.

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Depending on RNG to have people run content is telling me "We do not make good enough content so we need to hand out our carrot on the stick"

So going by this logic, why is delta normal ran at all since 4.05?

The problem I have with the "better then old days" is this, having 24 people go after 3 RNG drops where a lot of people leave with nothing, is that pressured to get it done in a week? The thing that makes these posts exists is that we should not be spending 5-8 hours on 4 runs a week because unlucky while some do 1/1 to total 50 mins or so.. it is hugely unfair, and with a game "appealing to causal progress" (why we have the strict 450 weekly) the RNG loot in this manner goes against the logic. For me, there is no point in stepping foot in deltascape 2 weeks after release, I do so to help others more so then gearing myself and there to do because there is nothing else.

So yes I am in agreement the system needs changing.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

They could fix the fact that current gear is pretty much moot to hell in the next patch.
Gear is tossed around like nothing in this game.

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And some people wonder why some have inventory issues -.-

I've ran Omega 3 fight today for 10 times already, and still haven't been able to obtain item from there.. and who knows how many more I need to before I get it..

This system is horrible and needs some changes.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

How is new system easy when run it multiple times just to never win a roll. How it is now 4 people don't get a thing for helping out. If they don't fix it I sure won't be running raids. Don't like running a dungeon or raid and feel like my time was wasted because you didn't get a thing out of it. Other mmo's played you get a item at end and keep saving them up each week to turn in for gear piece you want. then once tanks and healers get there items for week they stop then how is that going to help dps that didn't win a piece yet. Because there shortage on tanks.

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If you see a dungeon / raid without loot as "time wasted" i am afraid you are missing out the point of playing a game.
Its about having fun, not getting rewarded for every 2nd button you press.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Let me ask this then, if it is not needed, why do people do it? People shouldn't be bothering with it at all.

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Because bragging, maximizing your stats and overall improvement of your character.
Not needed =/= Not wanted.
Stop trying to act smart when you know jack ....

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

If you see a dungeon / raid without loot as "time wasted" i am afraid you are missing out the point of playing a game.
Its about having fun, not getting rewarded for every 2nd button you press.



Because bragging, maximizing your stats and overall improvement of your character.
Not needed =/= Not wanted.
Stop trying to act smart when you know jack ....

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You said "The thing is, unless you go do Savage, you don't need anything else than tome-stone gear" and you need to do savage to "Because bragging" and "maximizing your stats and overall improvement of your character. " Without doing savage, trying to attempt both those reasons is nonsensical. Also the next best would be penta melding 320 gear, penta melding VI wt gear, after savage. There is no way to have the "best" from deltascape normal, so it was pretty much dead content the second week it was released, from a point of view for someone trying to absolute max. (outside of D4N for the gears, so v1-3N are completely useless and not for one that maximizes things with the intent to brag.)

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

There is no way to have the "best" from deltascape normal, so it was pretty much dead content the second week it was released, from a point of view for someone trying to absolute max. (outside of D4N for the gears, so v1-3N are completely useless and not for one that maximizes things with the intent to brag.)

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Thats actually correct.
People do not run Delta normal that often anymore, i even have que time as a tank nowadays. A lot of my friends just dont even try to get items from there anymore because its not really needed (they don't do savage).
And, for people that run savage, they might be going Normal for extra loot, but need it? Nope.

That, however, doesnt change anything ive said before. Content will be popular, good, rewarding, and at some point, nothing of that anymore. You have to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Thats actually correct.
People do not run Delta normal that often anymore, i even have que time as a tank nowadays. A lot of my friends just dont even try to get items from there anymore because its not really needed (they don't do savage).
And, for people that run savage, they might be going Normal for extra loot, but need it? Nope.

That, however, doesnt change anything ive said before. Content will be popular, good, rewarding, and at some point, nothing of that anymore. You have to deal with it.

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Deal with what? I am just explaining why I do not understand time gating it when it is useless, or became useless , @ 2weeks old
I am not dealing with nothing, I do not care, and I am explaining why I don't, and why it should change (how loot is handled) or even express "HEY DEV TEAM! you made this content useless @being 2 week old, even before people had body, it became outdated content, maybe in the future you might not want to outdate content so fast"

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Stuffz

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Except for the fact that Delta normal soley exists so people who can't play their class beyond 50% potential can enjoy the story.
Delta normal was never intended to be anything more than a story raid. You can get some gear out of it as a bonus, but thats it. It encourages people who beat the fight to come back every then and now and let them help newcomers clearing it.

But hey, i am slowly getting really annoyed with your weird way of demanding for everything in the game to change instead of just looking for a new game. Basicly nothing that exists can satisfy you, according to the way to act here in the forum, and anyone who doesnt side with you is either imcomptetent, doesnt know what he is talking about or is simply wrong in what he sais.
PLease, refrain from seeking further contact with me. I'd like to keep my time here a bit more... positive.

So they made something that lasted a day then? kinda weird since it takes 4 weeks to get a body.

I don't bother doing it over and over anymore the gear itself is boring, if I get a piece great if not oh well not worth it me to keep repeating. /Shrugs

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Originally Posted by odintius

I don't bother doing it over and over anymore the gear itself is boring, if I get a piece great if not oh well not worth it me to keep repeating. /Shrugs

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I wonder how many really understand that. I doono, i just think dangling a reward based on rng is basically admitting you can't give quality content.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

I wonder how many really understand that. I doono, i just think dangling a reward based on rng is basically admitting you can't give quality content.

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A harsh way to put it, but definitely a true one.

One might say they did do a good try with the 24-man raids, AKA taking-longer-to-finish and lasting-longer-in-general, content! (Until the drops get worthless because of short new savage runs that is.)

It almost seems like they are afraid of making longer raids for 'savage' runs (be it 4/8/24 people). It's always this run-in / run-out thing, might be a thing most savage raiders need? Really weird.

Tldr: get a static, OP.

I don't have any problem with Omega normal's loot system, although I would like for legs/chest pieces to cost 2 items instead of 4. That said, I'm not up in arms about it since verity gear is enough to get me into the majority of non-Omega Savage farming groups. Verity gear is also the only way to quickly gear up multiple jobs/roles, and since I don't have a single main job, I just "Need" everything and take what I can get.

The only gripes I have about this game's Omega/capped creation tomestone loot system is that everything is designed so that you can fully gear up ONLY one main job/role and one main. If you play all combat roles equally like I do, you're going to be stuck with either splitting gear amongst your preferred classes or having to pick one to focus gearing up. This one of the reasons why I don't do Savage. I upgrade my gear very slowly since my usage of the Omega Normal items is split between DRK, RDM/BLM and AST. Besides, even the best gear will be obsolete sooner rather than later.