MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

Yeah not liking a lot of this, the only reason i play this game is because i find monk fun. Most of these changes make no sense and the SS down may be enough to force me to play another class or another game. Part of me hopes that this is all a toll from SE, cuz i dont even know if they even play monk on the dev team anymore.


On the bright side when 5.0 hits we can look forward to Tornado Kick mastery, wind version gives you two kicks and 2nd kick sets you to -3 GL, earth version does an evasive jump + knockback, fire version +5% potency. Maybe add a fists of water for +2% healing buff and 2% tp regen.

Hopefully with enough outcry like the white mages we can also be seen and they could actually buff our current skills since I doubt they care enough to actually remove or change other main skills. It's definitely not samurai with how much they're pushing it as a selfish dps with no raid utility other than high dps, and showing it off more and more than monk. Maybe we can get crazy potency changes like dragoon instead of getting nerfed across the board to actually make up for our loss of ToD and fracture. Anyways all these new skills/traits we're getting are garbage as well I'd say. RoE can barely be used in any content looking at it and I imagine it'll stay that way with downtime for raid groups to recover for a fight or have any amount of downtime. Tackle mastery is stupid since you're going to be in fists of fire 99% of the time and having a knock back with less potency, and 2 dashes for also less potency absolutely brilliant design decision.

Brotherhood is a laughable buff considering it's literally worse than astrologians balance on launch, and the whole 30% execution of weaponskills giving a chakra just feels like it's trying to force the monk to spam forbidden chakra instead of saving it. And that's even worsened by the stupid critical hit maybe getting a stack "oh you didn't use your forbidden chakra because your buffs are coming up in 20 seconds? Well guess you're possibly missing out on quite a few number of stacks." Then the worst skill of them all in my opinion RoF. The fun of a monk isn't hitting hard it's hitting decently well, but fast. So why in the world would you want to make a repeat of bard and literally remove something that they gain that makes them different, in this case skillspeed for damage. I don't want to go through my rotation as slow as hell purely because it's a dps increase because it was forced down our throats because of a terrible cross role change that could've been implemented much better.

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Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

Another particular issue I've had with MNK for a long time was how forms had timers. This is probably just specific to me but I noticed it when we started worrying about openers starting in Coeurl form. I've yet to understand why the forms have timers. Just like how MCH had the timer removed for ammunition MNK should have it removed for forms. And again, I don't understand why MNK was nerfed to this degree. If balance was a concern, SAM wouldn't be nearly as OP as it is and DRG and NIN wouldn't have been buffed. This is a hard nerf and it really makes me believe the development team wants less people to play MNK.

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The 10s Form timers are the equivalent of the 10s combo timers. No more, no less.

(Agreed on all other points.)

That said, I wish they'd figure out what they actually intend to accomplish with the forms. Do they really intend for them to just be a 3x3 cross-combo system? If so, PB could as easily turn FS into no-ani-lock oGCD and the 9 weaponskills visible at a time could be shaved to just the 3 presently usable. If not, then how about making them more interesting than a mere combo system? At present, they have absolutely no advantage or distinction except as to which tier of 3 skill choices they access.

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Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

I get that, to a degree, but then again unlike said combo moves we are unable to use moves out of form. Whether that's an good or bad thing is up to interpretation and preference I guess. My issue is specifically with holding coeurl for openers and having to time it to random tanks who don't like to give countdowns. It's a particular annoyance and gets to me but yea it's not a big thing just a pet peeve of mine.

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It's only our 100-potency "shit, I did not mean to hit that button yet" choices that are trimmed through that lockout though. Were they actually more viable than that, I'd agree, though.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The 10s Form timers are the equivalent of the 10s combo timers. No more, no less.

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I get that, to a degree, but then again unlike said combo moves we are unable to use moves out of form. Whether that's an good or bad thing is up to interpretation and preference I guess. My issue is specifically with holding coeurl for openers and having to time it to random tanks who don't like to give countdowns. It's a particular annoyance and gets to me but yea it's not a big thing just a pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by Ceolmund

Hopefully with enough outcry like the white mages we can also be seen and they could actually buff our current skills since I doubt they care enough to actually remove or change other main skills.

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Maybe it's the pessimist in me but I highly doubt you'll see really any outcry. I don't even think there's another thread about this. At least I couldn't find one. And I'm sure it's a 30/70 split about whether the changes are good or not, I feel like this is the minority. Everyone in my facebook groups are so happy to be able to hit FC more times and are more than willing to ignore the pot nerfs, RNG walls, and the Riddle downsides.

I've been upset over this myself quite a lot. Since I've seen the trailer, I thought we'd get cool stuff... Then samurai came and I felt "ok, we are still going to get cool stuff though, so we're cool!" and then -this-...

Not only are we being brought down, other classes are being brought up. And if we look at the potency increases in other classes, they are significant. It feels like we are being doubly nerfed in comparative terms. Mathmatically, the nerfs won't ever compensate to keep our damage on equivalence with what we have at this moment.

Our new skills are laughable; truly. I understand the concept of introducing meditation and I feel it's a cool idea to have chakra build in the middle of a fight... but SURELY there were better ways. Dependent on Crit, which is a stat that does not have a very high percentage already (that we can only boost for 15 seconds every x amount of time?)... and on a CHANCE of a Crit no less! How was this a good idea? Now, there is Direct hit which causes 'critical action' ... however the ability for the chakra build up only mentions critical hits I think... BUT EVEN if Direct hit counts to it... its % is surely not going to be high enough to warrant this. And even if it was, it still won't make up for the RAW POTENCY we just lost.

And let's not kid ourselves... crit chances can happen on all our moves... yet only weaponskill crits will count towards this.

Everything seems conceptually wrong and rubbish in practice. Brotherhood being a skill that only benefits physical damage, in a small are around us, for 5% extra damage WITHOUT buffing us in the process? Litany buffs everyone including the dragoon... so what's the problem? I thought it was to give us raid utility on par with others?

Tackle mastery? In fire stance, the increase to a 30 second oGCD ability in terms of damage is... irrelevant.

Riddles? All of them are bad, regardless how we look at it. Counter-intuitive. Damaging to the class.

Some people mention the stat inflation... Really? So, the stat inflation is only for monks? Because I see a LOT of potency buffs for others and massive abilities being given to others. On top of raid buffs... So how come its an excuse for 1 class, but not for others? Even if meditation will work with direct hits... other classes also have direct hits. So where is the compensation?

People mention BRD, but at least there was some utility involved with that class I think (?)... What they did with MNK as far as we stand is leave us with no DPS, irrelevant utility, lackluster/useless/uninteresting 'addons' to our current abilities AND manage to actually hinder our identity.

I am fearful for the job I enjoy... Not for a nerf here or there, but for the comparative pitfall we have been thrown into, when looking at other classes. This has literally killed my hype - which maybe is a good thing!

Am I missing something here? Because I don't really understand why some of these changes were implemented whatsoever - but one that I just can't wrap my head around was Tornado Kick's lowered cooldown. Even if I wanted to (and I don't), I can't possibly use TK every 10s, anyway. I've never had a situation come up where I was like, "Aw, shoot. I wish TK was on a shorter CD!"

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Originally Posted by Meui

Am I missing something here? Because I don't really understand why some of these changes were implemented whatsoever - but one that I just can't wrap my head around was Tornado Kick's lowered cooldown. Even if I wanted to (and I don't), I can't possibly use TK every 10s, anyway. I've never had a situation come up where I was like, "Aw, shoot. I wish TK was on a shorter CD!"

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From Coeurl you could Snap, PB, Snap twice, TK, Snap 3 times, TK again. In other words, the limit would be somewhere under 5s. They've actually purposely kept it long enough to prevent that.

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Originally Posted by Meui

Ah, got'cha! You could potentially kinda burst and blow through PB, but then basically be back at ground zero again.

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Right. The only thing is, given Form Shift, a single Perfect Balance could supply 2 TKs, provided the cooldown were low enough. They've voided that possibility, but still kept the TK CD low enough to blow it on a PB over a Bootshine spam (not that we ever will, especially now that we have Deep Meditation) and then use it as a phase break (which we'll never use, either, if we could in any way maintain GL through it instead).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

From Coeurl you could Snap, PB, Snap twice, TK, Snap 3 times, TK again. In other words, the limit would be somewhere under 5s. They've actually purposely kept it long enough to prevent that.

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Ah, got'cha! You could potentially kinda burst and blow through PB, but then basically be back at ground zero again.

i do play monk since the V1, i did know the worst, when we was double stats, int/str, when we was normally a Offtank... and such... even more hated than while hw.... meaning find a group was clearly impossible. but it was still my main. i still remember the login the day of ARR for find that half of my accessory was garbage because they was int based. i did enjoy everything that have done to the monk in ARR. i was delighted to finally be a destroyer of rhaglr...

Then HW did come..... at the start i was conflicted about chakra mechanic and cyclone kick... in my eyes that was in total contradiction with what was the monk.
and now we have SB... and i can't understand at all what they have try to do? honestly speaking, do they want all the monk to stop to play? do they have really look at this and said, yeah that what is the monk. for god sake riddle mechanic, tackles mastery are not the freaking monk!

what is the monk?
it's a jobs based on 2 mechanic that have been unchanged since ARR. the only change was an increase of greese lightning duration. this two mechanic are the combo form system allowing us to have a free sort of combo system and the greese lightning system.

what is the idea behind?
the monk is means to be a jobs that will deal more dps as the time pass, being slow to start and being a machine gun that will destroy the enemy by the number of attack.

but here the trouble...
we are not the fastest class ingame... greese lightning increase our speed of 15% (5% per stack) for a duration in sb of 16 sec. tricky to maintain...
ninja huton increase them speed of 15% for one ninjutsu.... that can be refreshed by combo... that have a duration of 60 sec. easy to maintain...
samurai do have a combo : Hakaze > shifu increasing his speed by 10% (less than the monk) for a duration of 30 sec. easy maintain ...

the most amusing is the ninja and the samurai have a better potency on them skill... far better.

they keep giving us buff of damage instead to emphazised on what we are... a machine gun... the best example that come to my mind is kenshiro from hokuto no ken.
but SB instead to make us faster and hitting hard... we hitting slower and less harder. for god sake...

why our combo haven't changed since ARR... our cycle is mostly unchanged for age! the monk need to be redone. it's simple... i feel like the whm they don't know what to do with us.

i don't want the tackles mastery, i don't need the riddle mechanic that for me is a pure garbage... i want my monk back!

for me the monk of SB is as bad than the one of the V1, it's at this level that i see the monk.... then until they rework this mess, i will go play the samurai, that is a better monk than the monk. lucky me, they use the same gear!

I sure hope what we saw with the media tour and live letter gets some adjustments, other wise monk is gonna be useless for another tier/expansion. Another useless trait that just further enforces the use of first of fire, Riddle of Fire which encourages, what is currently of the most ping friendly jobs, to double weave, which also reduces our GCD so that it feels clunky. Reduction on almost every weaponskill including forbidden chakra, brotherhood not boost the monks damage itself, because of the POSSIBILITY of get 3 forbidden chakras off.

And instead of making Arm of the destroyer and One yalm punch more interesting, they make arm of the destroyer 2.0 by making one yalm punch a conditional stun, so it's completely unreliable to use in any kind of serious content, cause why would you ever sit on your gcd. 1/2

Then they reduce Tornado kick's recast as if we're gonna burn our greased lightning stacks more often? Without having a way to generate more stacks, there is no reason to do this, especially with Riddle of Earth which encourages people to purposefully eat dodge raid damage to keep their stacks. But because of the current duration timer, its never useful on any Ultimate attack except for like Zurvan?

Almost feels as if the person who was in charge of the monk changes never played the job itself. I really hope these issues are addressed and aren't just dismissed as to bridge the gap between the "casuals" and the "hardcore". 2/2

Registered on the OF just to say I wholeheartedly agree with what SpeckledBurd has said in post #63. The changes to MNK are extremely disappointing, and the job is now less interesting than it was in 2.0. The SB changes bring up the other melees effectively knocking MNK down, while also making the job less fun to play by removing two of the abilities that interacted well in your rotation and made the class require some inkling of thought to play.

Using Shoulder Tackle and Fist stances as defining factors of MNK is mind boggling and a terrible decision. Riddle of Fire feels counter intuitive on the job that was supposed to be the fast attacking high sustained damage job. Brotherhood looks nice, but unfortunately is not enough to make MNK competitive in light of all the other changes to its potency and other jobs' changes.

So some new info from Ol' Reddit. Apparently the build shown at the media tour (Which is where I am assuming people got the tooltips for our actions and traits) was a build from back in april. This gives me some hope that something more has changed since then.

The new abilities don't synergise with the Monk well, Fists of Fire is still going to be on 99% of the time. Riddle of Fire misses the point of playing Monk and isn't enough to compensate for other DPS losses, Riddle of Earth is useful but renders Tornado Kick completely useless, and Riddle of Wind will never be used. It feels like no one on the dev team actually plays Monk, otherwise the fist system would have received an actual overhaul and not simply had abilities stapled onto them.

Then there's potency nerfs across the board on GCD skills without any new abilities to really compensate; it seemed that the devs were expecting forbidden chakra to fill the gap, but that's received a heavy potency nerf too. Mathematically, Monks are far worse off than they used to be.

In HW, while Monks weren't useful for raids, at least they were able to boast about the beastly amount of sustained DPS they could put out. Now for SB, it's looking like they're going to get neither.

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Originally Posted by phishstix

So some new info from Ol' Reddit. Apparently the build shown at the media tour (Which is where I am assuming people got the tooltips for our actions and traits) was a build from back in april. This gives me some hope that something more has changed since then.

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I don't know that I have any faith that the people who thought those monk changes were ever anywhere close to good could use a few more weeks to actually make them good.

Looking at the new abilities monks got for stormblood
Riddle of Fire (Self buff replacing Blood for Blood barely more dps if at all but takes away our speed which makes the class unfun to play)
Riddle of Earth (Terribly thought out mechanic requiring monks to get hit to refresh stacks when they can't be attacking. But i've seen plenty of bosses who jump away and not do dmg for a long time. If it granted GL3 when you get hit instead of refreshing it that would be different)
Fire Tackle
Earth Tackle
Wind Tackle
Brotherhood(worst raid utility among the melee at least samurai has slashing debuff)

So our new exciting Stormblood expansion boils down to a self buff that sucks a raid utility that sucks a GL refresh mechanic that sucks and 3 tackles 2 of which outright suck while the other is a mere 30 potency increase so in other words it sucks

Unless from april to now they had an epiphany about monks and completely reworked them there is no excitement to be had.

Well, Samurai shares gear with Monk. If their intention was to make Monk mains swap then I'd say that they're doing a great job. The only good addition is Brotherhood, and even then can definitely be better. At least with Heavensward we got some neat stuff, but with Stormblood I'm not excited for any of it. It's...really really bad.

Monk gets fed scraps in their own expansion. How sad. The only saving grace here is that the media tour build was a late April build and Monk went through significant changes before early access. They're doing stuff for White Mage, so hopefully they'll do stuff for Monk, cause I'd say that they're both in the same spot right now.

I might be alone in this but I'm excited for 4.0 Monk.

First, Riddle of Fire: While people are complaining the side of effects of making the class attack slower it's actually a way to make you use LESS TP. We don't know how much SS we're gonna have with the new sets. If you have above 800, good luck dpsing over 3min without heavy support.

Brotherhood: It's 5% damage for everyone around while giving you another 30% (on top of the 30% deep meditation gives you) of getting a chakra. There's a very good chance you'll be using forbidden chakra at least 4 times in the 20sec opener window (you can open with it after your first GCD since you can build stacks so fast). That's 1000 potency on the first 20 second opener window that can be buffed by riddle of fire. 720 potency samurai attack? Sure, bring it on.

Lastly, please take into consideration the new stat. We still don't know how much it will affect our damage and how well it SCALES with the new sets. Seriously, if they nerfed our potencies, it's because the new stat makes us quite overpowered, IM GUESSING.

The train of hate doesn't help anyone nor the game. Try it upon release. If after you've obtained your nice lvl 70 set with PROPER STATS and you're still not satisfied, then by all means complain. I honestly think we're still gonna be Top DPS, equal to Samurai. But only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Haaki

First, Riddle of Fire: While people are complaining the side of effects of making the class attack slower it's actually a way to make you use LESS TP.

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TP is less of an issue then it was before. (IMO TP was never an issue unless you started late or ran with low dps groups) Purification is a good option now for last restort management, and all melee getting the option to goad, (most wont im sure) using fractionally less TP from RoF then before does nothing for me when i was rarely struggling to keep up TP as is.

The game is not just end-game raids with perfect statics. 24man raids, 4man dungeons, pugs, there's a lot of situations where i've run out of TP under 3min mark when SS is over 700.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Riddle of Earth (Terribly thought out mechanic requiring monks to get hit to refresh stacks when they can't be attacking. But i've seen plenty of bosses who jump away and not do dmg for a long time. If it granted GL3 when you get hit instead of refreshing it that would be different)

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Im pretty sure the current consensus of the monk community from watching multiple videos is that only the damage reduction requires you to get hit to proc. The extension of GL duration happens upon using the ability and does not require taking damage.

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Originally Posted by Haaki

The game is not just end-game raids with perfect statics. 24man raids, 4man dungeons, pugs, there's a lot of situations where i've run out of TP under 3min mark when SS is over 700.

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Looks like TP was lowered on alot of single target abilities and you won't be burning TP on touch of death or fracture any more. I don't think there will be any TP issues

Brotherhood is not a 5% buff for everyone it's a 5% buff for physical healer dps and caster dps are unaffected. and you are probably only going to get about 2-3 Forbidden Chakra(if you are lucky) during brotherhood/riddle

Dps will be fine I've never thought otherwise I'm sure whatever they have thrown together will be in the ballpark of other melee dps.

My issue is for 2 expansions in a row they have added really garbage abilities to monks. The only skills I don't take issue with is elixir field and form shift.

Tornado Kick is bad period

Brotherhood is bad 5% dmg that excludes casters is not a reason to take monk Ninja DRG still better raid utility SAM more damage no need for monk

Riddle of Earth is bad very few fights where this ability will be useful at all without purposefully getting hit by something you otherwise would have avoided. Unless all the new stormblood fights are going to do jump mechanics followed by immediate raid dmg that is unavoidable a terrible ability

Riddle of fire is bad the thing that sucks about losing GL3 is the loss of attack speed so now lets just make you spend like 20% of the fight like that for what will likely barely be better than the blood for blood it's replacing

purification is not as good as invigorate and makes us lose a FC

The chakra system was a good idea poorly executed
Deep Meditation somewhat addresses the problem of chakra

Tackle Mastery is a joke and they should feel bad for creating it

I fully expect monk dps will be fine. Dps is just numbers they could easily if it appears monks are too low just raise some potency. My issue is with the god awful abilities

None of this changes how clunky the riddles and and shoulder tackle changes are though. Unless something changes drastically, riddle of wind/wind tackle is not going to be used, earth tackle is unlikely to be used, and riddle of earth is useful but very situational. That leaves us with brotherhood, riddle of fire, fire tackle and deep meditation as our game changers to replace everything that was ripped out. Even ignoring potencies and TP costs, it's not very much, is it?

It's beyond obvious that even a player who casually plays MNK would see these skills and see how they don't make sense. Math has been done on many posts here to show that we're not gaining anything to compensate the changes. MNK has stayed the same through the last 4 years and I am OK on it's flow, I love MNK for having such a solid playstyle but adding these "Riddles" and "elemental tackles" really tells me:

1. I'll still be using FoF.
2. I'll still be using Shoulder Tackle "Fire eddition".
3. RoF becomes my B4B replacement with a few (but livable) caveats.
4. I still have one gated "mid" potency skill behind a stack system that's been lacking synergy since 3.0
5. I still have my highest potency skill tied to a caveat of only using it 1-2 times per instance.
6. I still have stun and silence gated behind forms.

What I would like to see:

If you really want us to switch around the Fist options, we'll welcome it if you change abilities which would really use a buff:

Thematically, off the top of my head:

Fists of Earth > Echoes of the Land = Increase 5% defense. Increases Range of Certain Skills by 2y (the following) becomes a trait

* Arm of of the Destroyer > Rhalgr's Roar = Potency goes form 50 to 150. Silence removed on base skill. 1s Pacification (can be nullified after 3 strikes) removed from form requirement.
* Rockbreaker > Rock Crusher = Potency increase from 130 to 220. Chains from Arm/Rhalgr.
* Riddle of Earth = Grants Earth's reply. After a refresh of GL3 it gives you FB. CDs the same

Fists of Wind > Whispers of the Sky = Increases movement speed and evasion by 5%. Reduces Tornado kick GL requirement from 3 to 1. Becomes a trait

* Howling Fists > Raging Fists = Potency increase from 210 to 280, same AoE. CD remains at 60s
* Tornado Kick = Potency increase from 330 to 350. CD is 15s CD.
* Mythril Peak = oGCD that casts 1s Silence. Potency 150. 15s CD.
* One Ilm Punch = oGCD with 1s Stun. Potency 150. 15s CD.
* Riddle of Wind = Grands "Wind's Grace". Lets you use TK without GL penalty. 60s. Locks TK on a 5s window.

Fists of Fire > Rhalgr's Fire = increases damage, direct hit rate and critical hit rate by 5%. Becomes a trait.

* Meteor Barret = 3 stage attack each with a potency of 100. has a 30% to grant GL3 if it's the opening attack. 120s CD.
* Phantom Rush = 600 potency attack. Requires "Burning Rave" buff. 15s CD
* Riddle of Fire = Grants "Burning Rave" status. lasts 15s. Increases damage 30%. 30s CD. (MNKs dreadwyrm trance)

Outside of that

* Perfect Balance = Negates positional penalty and form requirement. Positional bonuses reduced by half. 120s CD.
* Deep Meditation = Grants a Chakra every 3s passively.
* Forbidden Chakra = Potency from 250 to 300. 15s CD
* Shoulder Tackle = Loses Stun. Potency at 130. Has a 30% chance to reset after use.
* Brotherhood? Kill it with fire.


I know my recommendations would likely have (a lot of) balance issues that would (obviously) be tweaked. However I feel it fits better, thematically speaking, than 3 elemental tackles and 3 "riddles" that don't have synergy with how MNK plays.

For an expansion trying to reduce button bloat the fist/riddle implementation seems counterproductive. Originally just hearing the name "earth tackle" I was hoping that AotD and Shoulder Tackle would just be merged together. A distance closer with the ability to release an aoe upon reaching its destination. Because AotD had that silence bonus, maybe instead of that...it would just reward GL stacks based on the number of targets hit (hit a boss = GL3?). Still a better thought than just a simple knockback that earth tackle gives. I was hoping this expansion would give a quick GL3 button to help make Tornado kick a little more usable. Or maybe just a shorter cooldown on PB.

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Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Im pretty sure the current consensus of the monk community from watching multiple videos is that only the damage reduction requires you to get hit to proc. The extension of GL duration happens upon using the ability and does not require taking damage.

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MrHappy's monk video confirms it happens when you take damage not use the ability. In the Video he had 7 seconds left on greased lightning when he used riddle of earth his stack did not refresh it's duration until he snap punched the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Brotherhood is bad 5% dmg that excludes casters is not a reason to take monk Ninja DRG still better raid utility SAM more damage no need for monk

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https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...rotherhood.png
Unless that image is incorrect, it says "nearby party members" it does not exclude any type of job

Here's a simple way this mess could be cleaned up at least a little: make fist switching automatic. If you are attacking something, you automatically enter fists of fire. If you haven't attacked something for x seconds, you enter fists of wind. This automatically means that you can open with wind tackle (as I think was the intention) without the constant hassle of switching back and forth between fist stances. Using riddle of earth or toggling on fists of earth overrides the other two until it's manually switched off again. Not perfect but it's a start.

I can agree about bunch of the additions being lame. But I think riddle of fire and brotherhood will be nice additions.

I think having slow big powerful attacks will be nice change of pace with riddle of fire. I don't particularly have to identify a hand to hand specialist as flurry of attacks specialist. Plenty of badass hand to hand specialist in games that focus on slower more impactful attacks. In fact look at the male monk in the trailer video.

Brotherhood seems like unique buff that will make the rotation a little bit different compared to a boring straight damage increase cool down buff. Ya it's rng based but I won't cry over it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lily_with_100/
whm lillies passing from 20% to 100%
And, Yoshida saying the video was more than a months old, many things have changed
just sharing, no idea why

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Originally Posted by Raionx

MrHappy's monk video confirms it happens when you take damage not use the ability. In the Video he had 7 seconds left on greased lightning when he used riddle of earth his stack did not refresh it's duration until he snap punched the enemy.

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Well that was footage from the media tour which was an earlier iteration. Let me see if I can find the video i am referencing.

Also, based on the media tour footage, I was under the impression brotherhood was all damage.
https://youtu.be/QIUyXs2hpT0?t=174

Would you mind giving me a link to where its confirmed to be only physical :D

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Originally Posted by Haaki

https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...rotherhood.png
Unless that image is incorrect, it says "nearby party members" it does not exclude any type of job

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My bad I was going off the live letter where they said it was Physical DPS

Let me fix it

Brotherhood is less bad. Still bad though

Personally if i were behind monk designs this is what i would do.
Collapse all stances to One with everything,%5 damage, increased movement speed, reduce %10 fist of earth to 5%.

Riddle of wind effect moves to tornado kick, put old long gcd back on TK. So we can toss a few out in fights with out losing gl3, but have the option to drop stacks for an extra finisher.

Riddle of earth stays the same remove the gl3 refresh though. (though i dont think monk tank will be much of a ting anymore if sam is taking lead dps)

Riddle of fire remove the gcd nerf from it. Misses the whole point of what makes monk fun.

Drop shoulder tackle mastery, just have the fire shoulder tackle.

Brother hood stays the same but gives us a buff also, just kinda seems silly and insulting it does not. Still grants chakra.

Meditation can stay, i like the idea behind it and brotherhood but the rng nature of it has me worried a bit.

Drop perfect balance cool down rate.

Add Fist of the Dragon, grants GL3 and opo-opo form, put a long ass cool down on it 3min or so. This would effectively raise the skill floor but leave room for skilled players to risk using it to drop an extra TK and jump to GL3 again once or twice in a fight. If this cant be balanced at the very least have it grant 1 stack of GL and opo-opo form. We need a skill that eliminates the frustrations of count down timers or lack of countdown timers. Ninjas got one monk is the only class left that can get screwed on pull. It also lets us start off a fight with what makes monk fun, the fast gcd.

Im not including potency because things will need to be adjusted and im not one to do these things. IMO this would make monks amazing again, but again it would have to be balanced. With the rng and luck of chakras i feel are minimum dps needs to be close to drg ninja but have it potentially hit or exceed SAM dps on occasion to even be viable with our rng procs.

Also click like for the OP. More likes is more attention.

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Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Well that was footage from the media tour which was an earlier iteration. Let me see if I can find the video i am referencing.

Also, based on the media tour footage, I was under the impression brotherhood was all damage.
https://youtu.be/QIUyXs2hpT0?t=174

Would you mind giving me a link to where its confirmed to be only physical :D

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Those tooltips in that video are out of date. I know yoshi p said in the live letter brotherhood buffed physical damage. If thats not true thats better but still bad. In the video you Linked RoF is 20% dmg for a loss of 30% speed but we know it to be 30% dmg for a loss of 15% speed

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Those tooltips in that video are out of date. I know yoshi p said in the live letter brotherhood buffed physical damage. If thats not true thats better but still bad. In the video you Linked RoF is 20% dmg for a loss of 30% speed but we know it to be 30% dmg for a loss of 15% speed

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Yea, i think the major issue with alot of the info atm is that it is spread across multiple builds and people are unsure which is the best and most current information. People are just sometimes linking things from all over the place. Unfortunately, there will likely be adjustments before launch and it will be 16th before we know for sure.

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Originally Posted by KaiSunstrider

Yea, i think the major issue with alot of the info atm is that it is spread across multiple builds and people are unsure which is the best and most current information. People are just sometimes linking things from all over the place. Unfortunately, there will likely be adjustments before launch and it will be 16th before we know for sure.

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numbers are meaningless to me. I'm not concerned with monks DPS. The abilities are bad they don't add anything to the monk. Riddle of fire might be a dps increase and if you can stomach the speed loss(which is counter to monks gameplay) style it's fine but it's just replacing blood for blood and is thus uninteresting. Nothing exciting about the 3 tackles they added. at best brotherhood is a very low impact raid utility where the monk might get 1-2 extra forbidden chakra every 90 seconds. the only thing that adds to the monk job at all is deep meditation and that's just RNG behind RNG.

i would be happy if they just took greased lightning off of tornado kick

Make it so that every time you refresh GL3 you gain a new stack that doesn't do anything for you but when you get 3 of it so every 3rd pass thru the combo system you can tornado kick. I just want something to build toward like literally every other job.

Slowdown on monk is a bad idea. If "riddle of fire" still has slowdown at launch, I'll eat the dps loss instead of using it.

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Originally Posted by Haaki

First, Riddle of Fire: While people are complaining the side of effects of making the class attack slower it's actually a way to make you use LESS TP. We don't know how much SS we're gonna have with the new sets. If you have above 800, good luck dpsing over 3min without heavy support.

Lastly, please take into consideration the new stat. We still don't know how much it will affect our damage and how well it SCALES with the new sets. Seriously, if they nerfed our potencies, it's because the new stat makes us quite overpowered, IM GUESSING.

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I promise you, you are not in the minority. Which irks me alot more than it should.

Riddle of Fire wouldn't prevent TP loss but TP loss is far less of a concern now that ToD and Frac are gone anyway. Even with the ~800 Sks Monk sets, you gain a large increase of TP with missing those abilities. There's alot less TP drain in general on Monk and Riddle of Fire doesn't do anything to make that better or worse. All it does is slow the class for no reason especially when all these chakra building mechs are RNG focused so Meditation is still going to be used. And it is a 30% increased dps loss to have to use it in RoF if one was bad enough to think that a good idea.

Also, this has been told to me so many times and I'm at a loss how it makes any sense whatsoever. No matter how the new stat, direct hit, applies to us, the only class that it affects differently is the SMN at best. Unless GL is changed to add fundamentally more of that stat along with what it already does, there's no legitimate way to make Monk more overpowered than any other class from one stat. Either the stat is unbalanced towards monk, which would be stupid, or monk is taking dps losses while other classes are getting buffed, what is happening. There's no way direct hit would affect said base potencies any less on a SAM, DRG, or NIN.

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Originally Posted by melkier33

Personally if i were behind monk designs this is what i would do.

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Thanks god you are not !!