There is such a thing as "educated guess". It comes from stuff like seeing the tooltips and doing the math and whatnot. There are things you need to play to know, and there are things you just need to hear about/see to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralts
If you are told that the speed limit on part of the road you take to work every day gets reduced by 30%, with the only bonus of there being a new road nearing the end of that trip that have roughly the same length as the original one but splits the congestion, then you know that in the end you'll take more time to reach your work place without even going through it.
Majority of the summoners tools got reduced in effect. In return, they got Demi-Bahamut which you won't even be able to use in every other pull due to requirements to trigger it, some damage buffs that are not only not up permanently (duh!) but even when they ARE up don't make up for the losses (PS: Scholars pet cannot do anything when tethered, chances are that Summoners equivalent is the same) and a 15% chance of being able to cast buffed up ruin that still only reaches the current level of a spammable version (even if costly).
And no, the two dots total potencies are at 30sec operation, so even if they are "only" 40 behind total potencies of Bio, Bio II and Miasma currently, the potency lost is significantly higher, since in those 30sec, Bio II would tick three to four more times (120-160 potency more) and Miasma would tick one to two times more (35 or 70 potency lost), depending on whether the caster clips them or not. That's an additional 155 to whooping 230 potency lost on TOP of the 40 difference from total. Yep, that's why DoT-based DPS have it rough. They can't just cast their DoT whenever and say that they increased the damage output. The duration matters...
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06-01-2017, 04:27 PMkikix12
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06-01-2017, 04:27 PMDyvid
After watching different SMN videos I believe Fester is a tooltip mistake. Ruin III landed for around 3000ish, Painflare was 3300ish, and Fester was hitting for 5500ish.
Honestly the overall changes aren't that different from how the community plays now. They use Garuda specifically to extend DoTs so they spam more ruin. 4.0 gives a hard 30s DoT rotation with easier management so you can spam ruin. The key thing though is SE is quietly trying to nerf speed runs again. SMN saw a huge buff to Bane from infecting only 3 target (remember those day) to infecting everything. Now they are swinging back the other way and wanting to nerf dungeon runs again. -
06-01-2017, 04:55 PMKhalitharIn WoW, the devs allow players beta access and share absolutely every bit of data with the players from the combat calculations to the formulas for every attack in the game. They are also (generally) good about hearing what players have to say if something is undertuned or otherwise clunky or hard to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
In the wrath expansion a few years ago, one build for the death knight was really bad and they drastically overbuffed it as a result and made it completely different to how it was. I still think blizzard's utter and complete transparency with the combat system is something the devs of this game need to adopt. -
06-01-2017, 04:57 PMKhalithar
Can't edit on mobile. The death knight example was to show that yes things can change. The overbuff of the death knight I mentioned was a bit much yes but that was due to a lack of time at the end where they realized the build was drastically underpowered (at the time).
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06-01-2017, 05:20 PMNeophyte
We get 30s of Ruin buff *10% every minute (through 3D), we get 25% more ruin casts into a minute without losing DoTs and Ruin2 got lifted a bit for the inevitable weave.
~18 ruin/ruin2/ruin3 per minute now, let's say 6*80+12*200 = 2880 per minute. Now we get ~24 ruin/ruin3 per minute, which would maybe be 12*80+12*150 = 2720. So not that weaker and that is with a worse ratio of ruin/ruin3 and without the Ruin4 and without the 30s ruin buff you get every minute.
And ruin3 use is even more likely because you can regain mp without dps loss if you use the mp drain GCD when no ruin buffs are up, so if we apply that same ratio as for the first case we look at 8*80+16*150 = 3040 pot with every 80 pot attack either buffed by 10%, being an 200 pot Ruin4 or refreshing your mp if both former not apply.
So pls... either calculate it right (with only half the data, lol) or just leave it be. -
06-01-2017, 05:40 PMMature
People panicking and complaining about something that we haven't even tried...
Wait for the early access and test it yourself. I main SMN and personally think people are just like whining for the sake of it. I CANNOT WAIT to put my hands on it and see how it goes. People posting stupid and ridiculous calculation about what's gonna happen etc etc WHO CARES just go and play the class and get your own conclusions once the game is out. If you not happy how the class feels after HAVING TESTED IT well you are more than welcome to comeback and post you results and suggestions. Right now it's pathetic people going thru mathematics like this game really needs it. It doesn't make u look more experience by doing it. -
06-01-2017, 06:14 PMAnyan
Mature
It's good that you're excited but I think you're being rather rude when addressing those who are feeling distressed right now. I can't help but wonder if your attitude would have been different if you were the one who disliked what you saw.
edit to add, I'm not saying this is at all what will happen but the last time I experienced something like this was with three of my main classes in WoW, Warlock, Death Knight, and Hunter when WoD came out. It ended up in me quitting the game I had loved for seven years. That's why I worry. -
06-01-2017, 06:28 PMeschaton
Releasing all these weird datacenter / game-play changes áfter nearly everyone pre-ordered the expansion....
Peculiar, very, very peculiar.
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06-01-2017, 06:41 PMNihilityIt's pretty obvious all they did was shift some of the output to ruin from the DoTs so it's more than just a nothing better to do button and give you a super pet for 20s a minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyan
His wording is just "an action" so he should be shockwaving all your ruins, aetherflow skills, dot refreshes, and anything else you might have
and there's nothing that states enkindle bahamut dismisses him so... 2 ahk morn per cycle?
if you just fear change in general... maybe some personal issues need to be worked out? Every class got their DoTs consolidated or removed to an extent this wasn't a targeted attack at summoner -
06-01-2017, 06:49 PMMatureI'm not here to be liked , I'm here to be honest regardless if you like it or not. Seeing all this posts with mathematic schemes , calculations etc etc are just ridiculous and cringe when the game is not even out and people cry over it. Do you think people actually care for for the "calculations" and mathematical problems? People will scroll it down and carry on complaining about something that is not even out yet....Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyan
Crying over something is not even tested by us and ARGUING over who's got the better statics about is Pathetic -
06-01-2017, 07:01 PMNeophyteYou can cancel your preorder. Back in HW BRDs only saw they got Minuett and what it meant to their rotation after patch notes went live.Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
Seriously. Even after a swift glance over the new abilities the average pot/minute has likely been raised, at least for single target., esp. if Fester potency is a typo.
Yes, Ruin3 got nerfed by 25%. But you also do 25% more ruins now. And some of them are strong as before (called Ruin4), while others have reduced potency but also new buffs to enhance them.
Also there is no situation where you really gonna use an 80 pot Ruin. Not a single one.
It's either 88 pot cast (because of 3D), it's 150 pot cast (because u have enough mp to use ruin3), it's 100 pot cast (if you have to weave something in and use R2), it's 200 pot cast if Ruin4 procs or it's 80 pot rolebased cast (but with MP regen effect). No one will use unbuffed 80 pot Ruin1. -
06-01-2017, 07:44 PMThe_Shang
I'm not sure how I feel about these changes tbh. While it all seems really interesting to toy around with, I fear that SMN's might be what MCH's were throughout HW (that being the laughingstock of the dps jobs and least played job overall).
I will definitely play SMN in the future, as it is my main right now (got the completed Lux relic and all, along with being fully geared in 270's). Depending on how the changes feel for me though, I'm not sure if it'll stay my main. -
06-01-2017, 07:46 PMAnyanI don't fear change in general. I have never said this was an attack on summoners. Wtf are on about? What I fear isn't the change in itself, it's how the job will play and feel. It looks to me like it will play very differently, and I love how it plays now. My main concern isn't the dps because that's something that can be tweaked and will most likely be tweaked over the course of the expansion on all jobs. But the likelihood that they'd all of a sudden would to a 180 and go back to how it plays now is close to nil. So if I end up disliking summoner after this change the job will be dead to me. Is that an unreasonable worry to you? If it is then I don't think there's any point for us to discuss this issue further.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihility
I can tell you're not here to be liked. One can be honest without being a selfish, condescending a-hole but if this is how you enjoy talking to people then go right ahead. I'm just being honest back. Mathematic schemes? You do know what all our rotations that we use now to put out the best dps were calculated right? People aren't scheming, they're trying to figure out the jobs based on the info we've got. Theorycrafting. Nothing pathetic about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
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06-01-2017, 08:17 PMKhalitharI am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not insinuating how something feels is more important than how the numbers play out. I will grant that something being fun and intuitive matters but if the numbers are under par than it's an issue. If your favorite thing to play was lots of fun but only half as effective as other stuff, that's not ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
All an mmo is, is a number generator with a fancy ui. Yes the game absolutely needs mathematics. That's what's nice about numbers, numbers don't lie. If you think people shouldn't be calculating and theorycrafting to figure out what's most effective? I don't even know what to say to that. -
06-01-2017, 08:31 PMMatureYou do realise people in this thread aren't trying to figure out the best rotation right? The majority are moaning about the changes and how their dps will suck and among all other nonsense they crying over it. Nothing selfish telling people things like they are, some just don't like people being brutally honest. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyan
I cannot get into rotation information or how things work until I ACTUALLY tested it. It\'s like people (some) here have already determined that SMN will suck because of this and that and that....without even put their hands on it...only based on their "calculations" just ridiculous
Just an example, people arguing about why people arent pulling good DPS on raid or in certain instances... Well first you need to learn the fight so you can adjust your rotation and then the DPS damage will come on naturally. But HOW can you pull damage if you haven't learnt the fight. This is the same escenario , HOW can people argue about something they havent tried or done?
No one cares about their calculations , some think that it makes them look smarter.... -
06-01-2017, 08:38 PMMatureYou missing the point entirely. If 4.0 was here as in right now numbers wouldn't be an issues and are certainly needed sometimes. BUT people are telling you that SMN has gone down hill ... Without even tested the class....Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
It seems to me some just got too much time on their hands -
06-01-2017, 08:52 PMNeophyteQuote:
Originally Posted by Khalithar
Because people only compare single skills and add their things up:
DoTs have lost x pot per tick might be a true statement. Ruin3 have lost 50 potency is a true statement. But this is barely "math".
If we lost overall dps is totally not clear.
Where are all the "mathematicans" factoring in that our ratio DoTs:Ruins has changed to 0-2 DoTs / 22-24 RuinXs per minute with all the RNG and not RNG buffs to the ruins?
Did they factor in that because of no Shadowflare and way less DoTs (which are the most expensive spells beside Ruin3) and the no-dps-loss mp regen, that the ratio of Ruin3/Ruin1 might still be the same or even better than now?
Do they factor in the mulitplicativ effect of stacked buffs like DWT+3D-Buff+Contagion-Buff? -
06-01-2017, 08:52 PMNatsunoJust to add to this, we do not have a open/closed public ptr/beta build to test out for ourselves. What we do have is what is probably are incomplete media release build videos. Someone has already pointed out at least one potential tool tip error on a spell. What else could be incorrect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
Sure, it's something for the theory crafters to sink their teeth into until SB goes live, but by no means should it be taken as gospel. If you're into theory crafting then sure, knock yourselves out. I (and others) will just be taking anything said with a pinch of salt. :)
Edit: I just found this over on reddit. I dunno if I skimmed over it being mentioned in this thread or not.
I think I'll you peeps to it either way, as nothing seems 100% atm. -
06-01-2017, 09:33 PMAnyanHow do you know what they're trying to do? You can take a guess but you don't know. The reason I'm calling you selfish is your total lack of understanding or care that other people feel worry instead of excitement like you are. WHY is it reasonable for you to be exited about something you haven't tried out but it's pathetic to feel the opposite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
No one cares? Obviously there are people who care or else you wouldn't be here slinging insults all over the place because someone doesn't think like you do.
Theorycrafting is something that some people enjoy, and many of them are really freaking good at it. What's wrong with them playing around with numbers and what info we have now and discussing it among themselves while raising concerns about some of it?
Even if some were only doing it to have something to complain about then what about you? All you are doing is complaining about people complaining.
This is not just directed at you:
Both sides are in the same spot right now. None of us knows how it will turn out in the end. Excitement or worry are both just as valid in this scenario. -
06-01-2017, 09:34 PMDeufont
I don't think SMN will suck, I just think it will be boring to play after these changes. The rotation seems real simple compared to what it is now.
I guess that's what they were going for but... Eh. Seems like they over simplified it to me. -
06-01-2017, 09:37 PMLeigaonIt does seem a little lacking, but this is what they complained about so much so they took it into consideration. We have the vocal minority to thank for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deufont
To the OP: Before we delete summoner..can you delete some of your posts? It's hard to take anyone seriously when they seem hardcore about a job but don't know how to use an edit button. If you can't take the time to learn a bit about posting on the forums...plus not taking the time to go back and consolidate it, says something. About both of us.
We do loose a bit of our potency from the face of it all, so they might need to do some adjusting. I'm not sure about having my DoTs messed with so much but the community made the threads, so off it went.
I don't mind the Enkindle reduction but I think it's coming a little late. A bit more Enkindle spam would be a welcome change in the mid 50's at least.
Thank you for revealing some positivity and some things I may have missed while trying to gather up all this information.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
So it would seem the trade off for Spur will be a general trait that increases our pets damage?
The tool-tip for fester makes things better on my end, I forgot the DWT does refresh the Tri ability, and that our DoTs are longer (I'm not 100% on potency)
Shadowflare is going to take some getting use to! That's for sure, but knowing I don't have to use it with Swift is nice.
I do like our Mana Shift, I would get raised to help raise other members in some 24 man fights, now I can give myself some MP and the white mage some so they can keep on trucking. On the downside I guess I won't be used to raise anymore.
Now I wonder more about what adjustments were made to the pets, removing cogitation from Garuda is nice but if we lost Sustain I'd rather keep my egi away from melee range AoE. Maybe I missed other adjustments to ones like Titan or Ifrit that are coming. So much to look through. Though with the recent posts I'm not going to count my SMN out. Though Bard is calling be back to my 1.0 days..but how could I live without my lil Titan-McNugget. can't kill that love. -
06-01-2017, 09:41 PMLunarEmerald
30% increased pet damage
x2 Ahk Morn every 2 minutes (1360 total potency).
Fester's tooltip is wrong. It seems the potency is 400. Twice that of painflare.
Can freely Tri outside DWT because DWT refreshes it
No longer have to burn swiftcasts on Shadow Flare since it's now instant.
We benefit a lot from the role skills too:
We get one of Black Mage's most useful abilities: Apocatastasis
We get another method of MP recover with Lucid Dream. It will be practically impossible to run out of MP now. Ruin 3 spam for days.
We get a much better way to self-heal with Drain. No longer as squishy.
If we're feeling generous, we can give up 20% of our MP to somebody else with Mana SHift. -
06-01-2017, 09:43 PMsilverlunarfox
As a SMN/SCH main, I am content with the changes. Everything has to be tweaked to work around new abilities. Stop being such a downer and wait to try it out. I think the tweaks will make sense in the end. I think, as I always have, SMN is underrated in terms of damage. I've used it effectively in raids and the like. you just need to use it smartly, and not alot of SMN do...I know a few personally........
So in the end rejoice we are still getting some love. :D -
06-01-2017, 09:46 PMMatureSadly that's not much the case here, some people are throwing unfunded moronic facts... To the point they argue between them about who's got the "best" theorycrafting..Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyan
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I just wanna know what changes been done to ifrit and titan as it seems garudas contagion is gone (well replaced) -
06-01-2017, 10:03 PMAnyanYeah, that's something I'm really curios about too. So far nothing it seems. I'd use Fifi a lot more if he had some kind of gap closer and was faster in general. The same kind of goes for Nugget as well. Why are they so slow? O.o That's actually one the very few pet (heh) peeves I've always had with summoner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature
Go Titan! Attack!! Yellow nugget makes a uuuurgh sound and then sloooowly floats up to the enemy.
It'd be so good if he hurled a rock at the enemy to grab enmity.
Both old and new contagion seems too good to not use Ruda though. -
06-01-2017, 10:10 PMFyceWith the change to Shadowflare, you should be able to use Swiftcast way more often for other things... Such as summoning your pet back. But frankly in most situations, either your pet dies or it won't move an inch. Sustain was used very rarely, and it's usually much faster to resummon it.Quote:
1 - Sustain removed: So, unless our pets get another buff to durability our only option is to target it then cast physick (which) means DPS downtime or create a macro which is idiotic to require.
We get Ruin IV procs instead, which completly crush the little speed buff we had.Quote:
2 - Enhanced Pet Actions trait removed: so no more speed buff from our pets crits
Yes, Bane now sucks. But, with Demi-Bahamut and the fact that Painflare is now a 5s cooldown, our AoE burst is stronger than ever. Most things won't survive the 30s DoT duration anyway.Quote:
3 - Bane: one of our Aetherflow abilities used for AoE damage nerfed heavily. It used to be 100% damage on the first 3 enemies and 50% damage on the 4th and beyond. Now this ability is 100% for the first enemy, 80% for the second,
Tooltip is wrong. Fester has been shown to deal more damage than Painflare in videos.Quote:
4- Fester: Another Aetherflow ability nerfed. Previously it was 100 potency per dot with the potential of 300 max potency (which should always be hit because a summoner shouldn't let dots drop off). Now, it's 150 for one dot and 200 for both.....a 100 potency loss on one of our biggest Dps skills
If you want to comment on job changes, at least try to gather as much information as possible.
If the 15% proc chance stays the same, then we'll see a proc every 6 to 7 skills from our pet. Using a skill takes 3 seconds, but you have more than just the basic attack, so we can round it down to around 6*3 = 18 sec. For the sake of it, let's just round it up to one proc every 20 seconds. It means that Enkindle will get reduced around 6 times during the cooldown duration.Quote:
5 - Spur removed: a 40% damage buff to our pets for 20 seconds removed. Usually used for higher damaged Enkindles.
tl;dr version: Enkindle is now a 120s cooldown and not 180 on average. Of course, it's RNG, but these averages should be correct.
We'll need a bit more theory crafting on the matter, but the loss of Spur isn't as bad as it sounds.
Same as #3. But yeah, they wanted to bring down AoE damage. It's a nerf, but it's not surprising. Miasmas II was shitty to use anyway and the conditions for it to be a DPS gain made that skill very situational to use outside of dungeon trash pulls.Quote:
6- Miasma II removed: this was generally used instead of Bane + Miasma on 4+ enemies since it didn't suffer the 50% damage penalty on the 4th mob and beyond (as listed above). Again, another AoE dps loss.
MP cost go up with your level... you know that, right? These are Lv.70 MP costs.Quote:
7- The Ruin spells: We got ruin IV....so everything should be good....right? Well, it's 200 potency which is the same as Ruin III used to be (SE nerfed Ruin III down to 150 potency now) and can only be used as a 15% chance after your pet used a spell or weaponskill. So, a 15% chance every 3 seconds (the base recast on pet skills). Now, Ruin II did get a small damage buff from 80 -> 100 potency....but the mp cost was also increased from 353 to 480mp (along with Ruin III increased from 1060 to 1440mp).
On the subject of the Ruin III's potency decrease, well, it seems that you missed two things: 1) Tri-Disaster gives a potency buff to all Ruin spells, 2) We get freaking Demi-Bahamut, which echoes our actions with a Shockwave. These Shockwaves should be way faster than our pet basic skill, and also have way more potency. So, the "nerf" of Ruin III is completly wiped when Bahamut shows his face.
If you were to make a parse on 30 seconds for our current DoT, you'd have to recast Bio and Miasma when they end. It means that it takes you 2 GCD to make your DoT stay 30s. Outside of DT, you are also more likely to be hard casting your DoT, meaning that you'd need 3 GCD.Quote:
8- Well, what about Bio III and Miasma III? Bio III is a 40 potency dot which lasts 30 second and Miasma III is the same potency and time. These replace all the previous dots we used. So every dot tick we will get 80 potency. Previously, we used to use 3 dots with potencies of 40 (Bio), 35 (Bio II) and 35 (Miasma). So, with these 3 dots we had 110 potency going off every tick. Yes, they did have different cast times but if you weren't bad you could keep them up constantly.
In short, you need 5 GCD to apply and keep your DoT for 30 seconds.
In Stormblood, DT will reset Tri-disaster, meaning that your DoT should always be up, without having to hard cast them. So, that's 5 GCD that you can dedicate to Ruin spam, accounting the fact that Tri-disaster increases your Ruins potency.
In short, the DoT "rotation" got way stronger in Stormblood if you don't strickly compares them to the current ones. Because with the other changes in the job, it makes no sense to do a straight comparison.
Use Aetherflow before going in DT. That's what you should be doing right now anyway.Quote:
9- Using Aetherflow during Dreadwyrm Trance: This is no longer possible (Trance blocks you from using it) which means we can no longer use a Fester during our Trance rotation again giving us a Dps loss)
Foul doesn't create Shockwaves everytime you blink, Akh Morn can be used twice, and Demi-Bahamut still proc Ruin IV. So yeah, Demi-Bahamut is rock solid in terms of DPS gain.Quote:
10 - But, But, you do have Bahamut. Yea, which is only useable for 20 seconds every 2+ minutes at the best (considering the enemy doesn't go invincible or changes forms to drop off dots). On top of this Akh Morn does decreasing potency on additional enemies and for an FYI - it's about the same potency as Foul that a Blm can cast without the hassle of going through 2 Dreadwyrm Trances.
Instant cast means that you win a free GCD. Shadowflare+Ruin III is "only" 100 potency lower than the current Shadowflare on 1mn. If you get a Ruin IV, the gap is even closer.Quote:
11 - Shadowflare: sure, it's an instinct cast now, but it has a 60 second recast time with a 30 second duration where previously we could keep it up 100% of the time. Again, a pretty big AoE dps loss....
But yes, that's an AoE nerf... only if what you need to kill lasts more than 30 seconds.
Good job at getting half of that stuff wrong, and exagerating the other half. -
06-01-2017, 10:11 PMspf1200
Did you guys actually read the tooltips on abilities or are you just echoing what others are saying? There where many typos in the SMN abilities until the game is out and we see what the abilities really do you can't say that is is nerfed. Also miasma 2 has always been garbage don't understand why people are trying to claim that its removal is a bad thing.
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06-01-2017, 10:15 PMRaltsThese people fear change. I don't think SE will take it seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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06-01-2017, 10:16 PMTexaThe only practical use I ever saw for it was for slowing down the blobs in the tornado phase on living liquid. Generally it just seemed like a high mp sink of a spell for very little damage though.Quote:
Originally Posted by spf1200
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06-01-2017, 10:36 PMSenlitenI doubt anyone will seeing the first thing of information gathering, would be to recreate the same scenario with close to equiv variables. Which would be 270 fully upped shire+weap to compare to the AF 290 gear demoed, and then simply using the dots and fester and record hard numbers. But with only a week and a half away from EA, I seriously doubt people will do that and just wait it out. Right now I have doubts that the tooltip is incorrect and no one has said anything to state otherwise esp with how some JP tooltips have shown to be correct as compared to some already translated. So if anything someone would have said something by now.Quote:
If you want to comment on job changes, at least try to gather as much information as possible.
It's honestly big changes like this that I wish SE would wise up and let players play on a test realm, even if temporarily, and not from a select few from mere 'tours'. Just so speculation can be curbed and actual player insight and criticism can be given. I mean hell, I haven't seen this much outrage even when Wizards back in the day on EQ ended up getting shafted post Shadows of Luclin, thanks to the manaburn parties, for at least 3 to 4 expansions, but maybe that's because we were able to see what we were in for and could try and help the class out. And by shafted, i mean shafted to the point Dev's would not consider giving us any real heavy hitting nukes for the longest time, thus stagnating our spell choices and making us use old 58/59 spells in lvl 65+ content, cause they were still the only viable options to be had... for 3+ years -
06-01-2017, 10:42 PMFyceWhat I wanted to say was "at least watch a video and pay attention actual damage numbers".Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
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06-01-2017, 10:49 PMNeophyteFester 5k damage. Painflare 3,4k damage. Source: Any video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
5/3,4 × 200 pot = ~300 pot -
06-01-2017, 11:20 PMKuzonohaOne thing I'd like to share is the fact that healers I think appreciate the fact that they can focus on healing/keeping the party alive while the SMN (or RDM come SB) swift resurrects fallen party members. I personally like to coordinate this with healers especially over Teamspeak/Discord. It can make or break runs in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
That said I appreciate the option to throw my MP around, I certainly see this coming in handy in long fights. -
06-01-2017, 11:28 PMAlleo
I will hold my last bit of opinion till I played summoner at 70 but still as a main summoner since the beginning I kinda feel that these changes to our AOE damage are immense. It might not be that way in the end and I truly hope so but right now I dont feel any hype at getting that Bahamut summon. (It looks cool that I can say but not sure if this is worth it)
Also why take away contagion from Garuda if you just re-model the skill anyway? Now if Ifrit does not get some changes he will again be probably less worth than her. -
06-01-2017, 11:30 PMPaladinleedsYep. If a SMN (or RDM come Stormblood) is able to drop a nice ress on a fallen party member (speaking of which, what happened to Summoner's resurrection? Did they remove the SMN/SCH one and I completely forget they did that and SCH gets the WHM ress instead?) it frees up the healer mana and time to keep people alive. Especially useful if our Swiftcast is on Swiftcooldown (sorry, horrible pun I know) and we'd have to otherwise hard cast ress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuzonoha
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06-01-2017, 11:34 PMSenlitensaw the vids and the 5k (5599 base standard to show i was paying attention and paused each time fester was applied with just the two dots to jot down), so show me where it is an upgrade compared to our current 300 pot with just fester and the three dots, where that 5k base is currently already doable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyce
Which again, how is this an upgrade? Painflare aside. I'm trying to really grasp where people come up with this 'upgrade' concept where as what is shown hardly constitutes it. Given the gear used and stats applied. Not trying to argue, but to me, someone that would prefer to use what tools are currently at hand to make comparisons, even with the small bit of time left, would like to try and understand this a lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neophyte
E: ***, annnnnd now i see it, FML OMZ, i'll apologize and hang myself now for being blinded and over hyper analyzing. -
06-01-2017, 11:40 PMJCharmsI understand what you're saying, but without seeing the whole picture, its very hard to say. What will the gear rating be at the high end after 4.0, 350-370ish? and new consumables, as well as different stat behaviour. I think its way too early to claim any sort of downgrade with the little info so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhailor
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06-01-2017, 11:44 PMBigcat9715Smn still has Rez. Rez wasn't added to the cross action pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
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06-01-2017, 11:47 PMPaladinleedsThanks, though I'm highly curious why SMN can't be used to ress people in combat anymore and why RDM is the only one who can? What's changed? Lack of Swiftcast? I've read the GamerEscape notes, but can't 100% remember everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
Or indeed, is it just me misunderstanding thing? -
06-01-2017, 11:58 PMFyceThe change is that the passive skill that was needed to raise during combat was removed. But Raise changed to be directly usable in combat anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
Swiftcast is still there too.