PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

Cleric Stance not turning off when hit or turning off then back on was quite annoying. I guess this works as a fix too instead of just fixing the responsiveness of the ability.

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

I knew this would happen; SE gives you no excuse not to dps now and people are already preemptively making up new excuses. Why was my enjoyment taken away for the sake of people like this? I am glad for the healers it may genuinely help but for the ones still chanting dps is optional you are spitting on my grave right now.

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Please don't bring up the "optional" crap again. You are wrong in the literal sense to think it's anything but optional by design. I do share your perspective, but that is the reality of it. It's inefficient to a huge degree to not DPS, but it's still considered optional by design, which I believe was proven by Yoshi-P's own statements. So until that changes, just don't say or imply it's anything but "optional", because you'd be wrong... and that invalidates much of your argument, which is right in the context of efficiency (and non-lazy play). Basically, you're hurting the intent to get people to DPS as healers by spitting out manipulative statements.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

However, you need to remind yourself that SE did nerf Holy in their potency, repeated themselves that healing dps is not being factored in at high difficulty content, shattered the str>all meta on tanks around 3.2 and are making vit/strength accessories limited by class.

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Holy was originally put in the spotlight and promptly nerfed because of the criminally hilarious DPS WHMs could put out in Wanderer's Palace speed runs, it's now where it should have been in the first place. I'm inclined to suspect SCH will lose Blizzard 2 with 4.0 which will also be a small aoe nerf that's arguably justified. Neither of these were done because of Yoshida not wanting healers to DPS. These changes were made because in certain situations, healers were outright doing more DPS than many DPS jobs.

Also, please don't make me dig up the whole 'healer dps isn't factored' quote, you do realise he goes on to acknowledge where healer DPS may infact be required right? You're aware that it was quoted in response to the player base kicking off over the steep Gordias DPS checks I assume?

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Originally Posted by Arrius

This community is obsessed with damage, and SE will continue to wrench against that, no matter if you like it or not.

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You mean like when they put in Gordias Savage? A tier that was almost entirely centred around DPS checks right from the word go with Faust? Or do you mean the current day Creator Savage where marquee mechanics have been skippable within the first couple of weeks, thus making the content an order of magnitude easier as you push past these soft dps checks?

I think SE knew full well that Soar was going to be skippable with respectable pug DPS, I'm inclined to believe they were seeing how well the wider player base would react to the Creator style of tuning aka you skip significant mechanics by 'passing' DPS checks, there are multiple examples of Soargate right the way through Creator Savage.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The accuracy changes were a global improvement (if I'd hazard a guess, it was because of those weird accuracy requirements on savage content), along with parry being obsolete and paladin blocking now also works on magic attacks.
Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

Here, because people love to use this one:

http://i.imgur.com/GHQlIYA.jpg

Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

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Yes, I understand that phrase perfectly. Thanks for pointing it out. Let me help you out there though:

"there may be time" in this case means there is a possibility of having time to do dps, It's a strong hint/suggestion: "hey, IF there is time, dps".

Wow, that was easy. Even me as a non-native english speaker got that.


So please tell me again how removing cleric stance was even a necessity if its sole purpose was to be used when soloing during quests/solo scenarios?


Unless your whole party is horribad, there will always be time to dps.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Cleric Stance not turning off when hit or turning off then back on was quite annoying. I guess this works as a fix too instead of just fixing the responsiveness of the ability.

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All abilities are like that though, has to do with the bad coding of the game and being super sensitive to ping fluctuations and a single packet loss. It is not a clearic stance only problem, it is all ability problem, the coding.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Here, because people love to use this one:

http://i.imgur.com/GHQlIYA.jpg

Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

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Not quite sure what point you're trying to prove here.

Nobody's trying to tell you to dps when you should be doing something else - they're saying to dps when you have the free time. That line says exactly what everyone else does - if there's time to dps, then dps. There MAY be time, and - guess what? - there is!

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Just because the healers can dps, doesn't mean they should.

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Just because the healers can get away with standing around contributing nothing to the party for 10-20 seconds between heals, doesn't mean they should.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

All abilities are like that though, has to do with the bad coding of the game and being super sensitive to ping fluctuations and a single packet loss. It is not a clearic stance only problem, it is all ability problem, the coding.

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In the case of severity to performance though, I'd argue it's much more prevalent to healers lol. Losing a bit of DPS as a DPS isn't typically going to mean life or death for nearly all situations, unlike significantly hindered heals in high damage situations. Probably one of those things where it's far more work than necessary because the current way of things is good enough. Faster (and less chance for bugs) to just change cleric's use.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

http://i.imgur.com/GHQlIYA.jpg

Emphasis on may here, if you need to know what it means.

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I think you may need help with your reading comprehension. Let me point this out for you, since I don't think you're understanding it:

It does not say "You may weave in some offensive magicks if there is time."

It says "There may be time to weave in some offensive magicks."

In any content other than the hardest, and even then, but I'll excuse players for that, there will be time. There's just no way around this. There is not enough incoming damage to require you to heal often.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Please don't bring up the "optional" crap again. You are wrong in the literal sense to think it's anything but optional by design. I do share your perspective, but that is the reality of it. It's inefficient to a huge degree to not DPS, but it's still considered optional by design, which I believe was proven by Yoshi-P's own statements. So until that changes, just don't say or imply it's anything but "optional", because you'd be wrong... and that invalidates much of your argument, which is right in the context of efficiency (and non-lazy play). Basically, you're hurting the intent to get people to DPS as healers by spitting out manipulative statements.

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Why should i walk on eggshells? My words are true, you've admitted it, getting caught up on a particular wording is doing nothing for the state of the game. You are coddling and tip toeing like saying the wrong thing is going to turn someone off from healing all together... have you considered maybe it should? If telling people to play their job (especially now that they have a foolproof safety net set up at the expense of an already low skill ceiling) is enough to make someone stop healing so be it. Its a role that certainly could use some fat trimming as it seems to attract people looking for an easy ride as opposed to people who have an actual passion for it.

But go on, continue your "I'm looking out for the little guys" spiel. Protecting them from the truth has helped so much already.

Just put your dots up and placate them. This change was a good one.... no more near death experiences from locked in CS at the wrong moment.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

In any content other than the hardest, and even then, but I'll excuse players for that, there will be time. There's just no way around this. There is not enough incoming damage to require you to heal often.

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And that's why all of SE's efforts to try and fight the DPS meta are and will be futile.

And on a side note: In the infamous content design interview, he implicitly asks DPS to please overgear the content to achieve the assumed item level and then bring 85-90% of their theoretical dummy potential in the live fight so that tanks only need to do their aggro combo and healers can poke their nose during pauses. That's bluntly asking DPS to please carry terribad healers and tanks. One should not expect DPS to just take that sort of bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Raim

Once again Arrius. The problem with healer DPS isn't just about shaving minutes off of a dungeon run. Its about contribution. If the tank and DPS are pressing a button every GCD while you're standing there doing nothing for 10+ seconds because nobody needs healing, you're being lazy and not putting in as much effort as the others.

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While I do tend to dps in dungeons in this game, I just wanted to respond to this...

I can guarantee you that even if I am not healing, I am alert and present in the instance. I must always keep an eye on people's health pools. I'm on the look-out for wandering pats. I'm preparing to both dodge AoEs and heal the dps who inevitably stand in them. When the class is capable of it, I'm maintaining up-time on buffs as much as possible. For tanks I'm familiar with, I facilitate pulls to keep things moving. This is how it works in any other MMO. A healer may appear to be just standing around, but that doesn't mean the healer is just twiddling their thumbs and watching Netflix. If they are, you'll know soon enough when people start dying. Healing requires constant attention even if it does not require constant button presses, and I think it's a bit silly to measure someone's contribution to the group based on how many buttons they press.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's a bit unfortunate that they don't have some sort of system that allows us to do both at once as tanks do. Tanks contribute to dps as part of generating aggro. What if we could contribute to healing as we cast offensive abilities or added to dps with healing abilities? A damage shield/healing shield type of system could do something like this.

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This should only happen in the form of a single job - a la Chloromancer in Rift.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

This should only happen in the form of a single job - a la Chloromancer in Rift.

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This, it's kind of a shame that SE didn't have the courage to take one of the 3 healer jobs and totally go left of field with it. As long as it's entertaining to play and viable for typical play, it's not the end of the world if it's not 'meta' as long as it's not broken beyond adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

In the case of severity to performance though, I'd argue it's much more prevalent to healers lol. Losing a bit of DPS as a DPS isn't typically going to mean life or death for nearly all situations, unlike significantly hindered heals in high damage situations. Probably one of those things where it's far more work than necessary because the current way of things is good enough. Faster (and less chance for bugs) to just change cleric's use.

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Does it matter? Why not fix the coding instead on picking on one ability?

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

Why should i walk on eggshells? My words are true, you've admitted it, getting caught up on a particular wording is doing nothing for the state of the game. You are coddling and tip toeing like saying the wrong thing is going to turn someone off from healing all together... have you considered maybe it should? If telling people to play their job (especially now that they have a foolproof safety net set up at the expense of an already low skill ceiling) is enough to make someone stop healing so be it. Its a role that certainly could use some fat trimming as it seems to attract people looking for an easy ride as opposed to people who have an actual passion for it.

But go on, continue your "I'm looking out for the little guys" spiel. Protecting them from the truth has helped so much already.

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Damn, you take your gaming a little more seriously than the "little guys" you're referring to, as well as people like me. You might call my specific way of looking at that "coddling", but I call that "not being a sociopath". Maybe it's just me, but I don't take a little inefficiency by other players to be a sin against humanity. If simply letting someone play how they want isn't suddenly making a 10min venture turn into 1hr, I don't think there's really anything to get so upset over. For the most part, we're talking about EZ mode dungeons/raids in DF here. The sort of crap that all jobs fall asleep to. Hell, the most exciting part about them is the bad players lol.

Your reference to "passion" speaks of the player, not the role. It's the equivalent of a BRD/MCH that uses group buffs effectively (or ever at all), tanks that actually tank, healers that actually heal (I can go on a rant about that one), etc. The idea of trimming the role because of little annoyances you find of other player does more harm than good, despite them doing their primary role. Again, that's said in the context that said player isn't causing wipes or an unreasonably slow progression. I do agree in a different way though, that DPS-only healers need to be trimmed though. I've run into far too many of those types. The ones who would rather a raid wipe than them even putting out a single heal (not even for themselves).

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Does it matter? Why not fix the coding instead on picking on one ability?

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Because it's a business with deadlines. I'm assuming it's a matter that would (probably) require gutting a bit of the system that's why, to some degree. A lot of times that involves QA, and given our track record in general for MMOs, it's not perfect upon release. It's just a matter of priorities really, and finding what path will fix a problem to some degree, without messing up everything else. More work fixing new problems that appeared because of a new fix is one of the worst things devs have to deal with. You just wouldn't know how far the rabbit hole goes at that point. It'd be nice to fix the source problem, but I don't think anyone really sees that as a needed thing.

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Originally Posted by Taika

No one said that. People are saying you're more likely to get kicked for not using your DPS abilities now, since the cleric stance excuse is out of the picture.

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Cleric stance is one of MANY reasons why healers won't DPS:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ople-don-t-dps.

The healer forum was pretty much unanimous on removing/adjusting cleric would do nothing to get healers to DPS.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

-Its just a game, bro
-feelings over facts
-bad players keep things interesting, i like inefficiency

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Noted. Thanks for your 'input'.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Cleric stance is one of MANY reasons why healers won't DPS:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ople-don-t-dps.

The healer forum was pretty much unanimous on removing/adjusting cleric would do nothing to get healers to DPS.

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Just to chime in on this before I go to sleep zzzzz

I think this is going to raise the skill floor on healer DPS significantly, whilst I'm rather gungho in roulettes, I'm *very* cautious in savage, far too much so really. Stormblood's changes will make it a lot easier for me to get a significantly higher uptime on my dots early in progression where previous I was likely too focused on absorbing what I was seeing and learning the flow of the encounter.

But otherwise, yeah, those that were against DPSing full stop are still going to be just as militant about it as before, there's a good number of examples in several threads =(

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Originally Posted by SlogDog

Noted. Thanks for your 'input'.

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Well, you certainly do a good job of asserting my "sociopath" comment. Hope it helped?

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Originally Posted by Naunet

While I do tend to dps in dungeons in this game, I just wanted to respond to this...

I can guarantee you that even if I am not healing, I am alert and present in the instance. I must always keep an eye on people's health pools. I'm on the look-out for wandering pats. I'm preparing to both dodge AoEs and heal the dps who inevitably stand in them. When the class is capable of it, I'm maintaining up-time on buffs as much as possible. For tanks I'm familiar with, I facilitate pulls to keep things moving. This is how it works in any other MMO. A healer may appear to be just standing around, but that doesn't mean the healer is just twiddling their thumbs and watching Netflix. If they are, you'll know soon enough when people start dying. Healing requires constant attention even if it does not require constant button presses, and I think it's a bit silly to measure someone's contribution to the group based on how many buttons they press.

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Operative words being: Any other MMO. Healing in FFXIV simply does not necessitate that type of acute awareness. In dungeons, if you aren't actively DPSing, you are next to useless. People have posted videos where they literally did nothing 80% of the full run. There just isn't enough outgoing damage in this game and until that changes, healers are essentially hybrids.

TL : DR: If you're not dpsing when you have time/should, you're being a selfish a-hole and you deserve whatever bashing/criticism/kicking that comes your way.

If you're new and trying to learn it's one thing, but obviously the frustrations here aren't towards those people.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

skip

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And it's all true. There is nothing to care on FF as healer in dungeon actually. When I tank (war or pld) I try my best to use my cd at right moment and have a good position/stun aoe skill for dps to be sure they aren't hurt. I even stoneskin as pld to gives healer a maximum time to dps. What mostly happen? The healer spam heal OR do nothing for more than 10s. Hell even when I have 100% hp and still have invincible up, some healer keep healing ! (and if they don't heal, again they absolutely do nothing). This is insane. I don't complain ig because I know what gonna happen but still... at worst I kick and ask someone in ls to replace, simple and fast. (rare that I do it)

I have try once to do a dungeon without dpsing as healer, the tank did good enough, I didn't have to heal even on big pull, only keep my hot up and wait. Boring.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Well, you certainly do a good job of asserting my "sociopath" comment. Hope it helped?

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If painting me a "sociopath" helps go ahead, would be rude of me to burst your bubble.

How about we talk about glam and housing instead? Actually playing the game to your fullest is so passe when we have fluff to distract us. The best part about glam is everyone wins so pass out them trophies, you're all mlg now.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

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I second this, you are one of the very few smart people around here and thats gonna make people mad.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

And it's all true. There is nothing to care on FF as healer in dungeon actually. When I tank (war or pld) I try my best to use my cd at right moment and have a good position/stun aoe skill for dps to be sure they aren't hurt. I even stoneskin as pld to gives healer a maximum time to dps. What mostly happen? The healer spam heal OR do nothing for more than 10s. Hell even when I have 100% hp and still have invincible up, some healer keep healing ! (and if they don't heal, again they absolutely do nothing). This is insane. I don't complain ig because I know what gonna happen but still... at worst I kick and ask someone in ls to replace, simple and fast. (rare that I do it)

I have try once to do a dungeon without dpsing as healer, the tank did good enough, I didn't have to heal even on big pull, only keep my hot up and wait. Boring.

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Thats a nice story, fake, but nice.

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Originally Posted by Keikun

Thats a nice story, fake, but nice.

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How is that fake? Did you play my char for me when that happened?
It's all true and today again when I did my roulette. I can do a video if you want or even stream it. Tell me when you'll have time to watch. o/

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

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Do us a favor and stick to botany

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Originally Posted by Keikun

Thats a nice story, fake, but nice.

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it isn't, i seen healers just spam cure at 90%+ hp 24/7
I seen healers use cleric stance the whole time and cast only heal spells.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

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WAR tanks and dps, DPS always hitting something to do so, and doing it badly is less then healer dps. People that perfect rotations find it irritating seeing someone stand around, that is why.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

Do us a favor and stick to botany

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or pick up a dps class so they can see what it is like?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

All abilities are like that though, has to do with the bad coding of the game and being super sensitive to ping fluctuations and a single packet loss. It is not a clearic stance only problem, it is all ability problem, the coding.

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Yeah, but his point was only Cleric Stance and maybe a tank having latency with defensive CDs at like Punishing Heat (tank buster) in A12S can cause deaths on a massive scale and or full wipes.

So he was actually talking about the 'risk factor of Cleric latency' which doesn't matter really for most other abilities. Like...yeah BRD could get latency and miss a Bloodletter and it reduces some DPS but it won't cause deaths or a wipe like a healer getting lag and getting stuck in Cleric Stance at a time they didn't want to be.

Most healers who DPS with Cleric have had it happen one time or another either by lag or bungling your button presses and nothing usually causes an unexpected wipe faster in Savage like a healer stuck in Cleric Stance at a wrong moment.

Ein and I usually got annoyed at Cleric Stance once per raid night at least if not more D: due to the risky nature of it due to lag.

Normally I don't mind Cleric but my ping also went up quite a bit with server move which was only going to make Cleric lag worse for me so idk I think I am okay with the changes to Cleric and healer DPS being MND based.

Yeah, there is more skill involved with the current healer DPS method, but having already mastered it I am personally okay with not having to deal with stance dancing on healer anymore and dealing with the latency risk which was completely out of your hands if it happened and caused unnecessary wipes.

(btw are you Ama? Hi o/ :D )

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Originally Posted by Keikun

I second this, you are one of the very few smart people around here and thats gonna make people mad.

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Its not smart to ignore half of your abilities. Even SE realized this which is why healer dps skills are now based off mind. I'm not angry, I'm worried you guys are going to get kicked a lot in future content. I agreed somewhat before the upcomig Cleric change just because lag could get everyone dead. Now its much safer. Just watch your mana!

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Originally Posted by Miste

Yeah, but his point was only Cleric Stance and maybe a tank having latency with defensive CDs at like Punishing Heat (tank buster) in A12S can cause deaths on a massive scale and or full wipes.So he was actually talking about the 'risk factor of Cleric latency' which doesn't matter really for most other abilities. Like...yeah BRD could get latency and miss a Bloodletter and it reduces some DPS but it won't cause deaths or a wipe like a healer getting lag and getting stuck in Cleric Stance at a time they didn't want to be.

Most healers who DPS with Cleric have had it happen one time or another either by lag or bungling your button presses and nothing usually causes an unexpected wipe faster in Savage like a healer stuck in Cleric Stance at a wrong moment.

Ein and I usually got annoyed at Cleric Stance once per raid night at least if not more D: due to the risky nature of it due to lag.

Normally I don't mind Cleric but my ping also went up quite a bit with server move which was only going to make Cleric lag worse for me so idk I think I am okay with the changes to Cleric and healer DPS being MND based.

Yeah, there is more skill involved with the current healer DPS method, but having already mastered it I am personally okay with not having to deal with stance dancing on healer anymore and dealing with the latency risk which was completely out of your hands if it happened and caused unnecessary wipes.

(btw are you Ama? Hi o/ :D )

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ofc I am sure ya saw me say I am an alt before.

I get that, I rather cut the root of the problem, not a branch. It is nice they are changing that to stop wipes from happening, but from a personal perspective, depending on a person, missing something like that due to latency is just as frustrating. Why not fix the coding in general and stop the problem across the board?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Operative words being: Any other MMO. Healing in FFXIV simply does not necessitate that type of acute awareness. In dungeons, if you aren't actively DPSing, you are next to useless. People have posted videos where they literally did nothing 80% of the full run. There just isn't enough outgoing damage in this game and until that changes, healers are essentially hybrids.

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This is the unfortunate reality of the game, IMO. Some people want to play their roles, irrelevant of how well they might do while dipping into that hybrid potential. Can't really blame them, since roles generally represent a matter of importance and frequency across any game. Pick a DPS to DPS most/all of the time, pick a healer to heal most/all of the time, tank to tank, etc.

I'd imagine that's part of the reason why the fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind (according to Yoshi-P). Obviously some players would take offense to that statement, but they always fail to understand the situation and intent behind it. If you're doing content before the devs intend you to, of course you're going to need extra help in something (pretty much always DPS). If you're doing it when they intend for people to do it by design, it becomes less of a necessity.

I really question if they could change the DPS focused combat at this point. It seems the majority are okay with DPS focused everything though, so I don't think it's a big deal to leave it as is... until it inevitably becomes boring again. I wouldn't be very surprised if it eventually becomes a better idea to just remove the healer role as a dedicated one, and treat it like our "support" style of jobs lol. I get a lot of people that stress the importance of the DPS part of healers would be upset by the title change, but if it's currently not even common to heal much, I doubt there'd be a huge impact on how they play anyway. Or maybe not go that far and take advantage of a smart healing system, since we kind of already have that with the fairies anyway, but where damage = heals. Have a couple heal spells available to use when needed.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I get that, I rather cut the root of the problem, not a branch. It is nice they are changing that to stop wipes from happening, but from a personal perspective, depending on a person, missing something like that due to latency is just as frustrating. Why not fix the coding in general and stop the problem across the board?

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Yeah it'd be good if they could fix latency of course. I was just clarifying what BF said though the reasons why Cleric was kind of more of a bigger issue due to it causing death/wipes. I understand other's issues with losing DPS because of it are also frustrating it just wasn't as punishing as a full group wipe.

Healers just have more issues with that....like one time I was doing A12S with static and we were doing the add phase with the holy spam and I usually use lightspeed there...I used it, it went on cooldown, but my character didn't get the lightspeed buff lol so uh...I kinda interrupted my spells first two times since I usually move and cast with lightspeed on...then realized what was happening, but it was too late and 3/4 DPS died so we had to wipe and restart ><

All because of ill-timed latency D: and Cleric liked to mess up way more often than that unfortunately since the Lightspeed one only happened to me once.

(I might have missed the post where you said it was an alt...or maybe my memory is bad, but I just assumed since very similar name ^^; )

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Originally Posted by Miste

Yeah it'd be good if they could fix latency of course. I was just clarifying what BF said though the reasons why Cleric was kind of more of a bigger issue due to it causing death/wipes. I understand other's issues with losing DPS because of it are also frustrating it just wasn't as punishing as a full group wipe.Healers just have more issues with that....like one time I was doing A12S with static and we were doing the add phase with the holy spam and I usually use lightspeed there...I used it, it went on cooldown, but my character didn't get the lightspeed buff lol so uh...I kinda interrupted my spells first two times since I usually move and cast with lightspeed on...then realized what was happening, but it was too late and 3/4 DPS died so we had to wipe and restart ><

All because of ill-timed latency D: and Cleric liked to mess up way more often than that unfortunately since the Lightspeed one only happened to me once.

(I might have missed the post where you said it was an alt...or maybe my memory is bad, but I just assumed since very similar name ^^; )

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Yep I make it obvious, no reason for people start crazy rumors for no reason and act like I try hide the fact. I had a weird accordance with swiftcast the other day, ill repeat encase you didn't see (post caps ugh)
(keep in mind i mouse clicked to different buttons so it was not a macro or anything)
Hit swiftcast
hit summon 1
hardcast summon 1
move to interrupt it
swiftcast used on summon 1 on next casting attempt

I posted a pic of the log in a few places like the call center move sticky.
(well not there prob in that other thread, ill edit in a sec)
"New-Datacenter-Sacramento-CA/"
Is no longer there, wonder why.. prob was in there and few others i posted that log

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

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Actually, tanks have to fulfill two roles in larger group content too. Main tank, generates aggro. Off tank, DPS.

And BRD and MCH have secondary roles as well, providing support. Summoners are like the designated rez to save the healers MP.

If you want to be lazy and stand there waiting for damage, and make your runs take longer, by all means do it. But don't expect people to just put up with it because you're too stubborn to press an extra couple buttons in your downtime. If kicks come your way, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them. Unless you're in progression raid content, that's a real low move to kick a healer for simply focusing on their job. My two cents.

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them.

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Even for my laggy connection, fights have downtime. I am far from a savage content raider and even I agree to tossing out dps because otherwise I'd be twiddling my thumbs. With the upcoming chages theres far less stress to throwing rocks at mobs.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Even for my laggy connection, fights have downtime. I am far from a savage content raider and even I agree to tossing out dps because otherwise I'd be twiddling my thumbs. With the upcoming chages theres far less stress to throwing rocks at mobs.

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And I also know the role of healer well enough to know how and when to stance flip and DPS. But there's a large difference between letting the healer manage themselves and kicking them out of a group because they didn't meet your ridiculous expectations. Personally I would gladly get kicked and find another group instead of having some elitist ass tell me all about how a healer is supposed to be DPSing world content. Healers can re-queue pretty fast. You might be waiting a while, especially since everyone will be wanting to play on their shiny new red mages and samurais.

EDIT: I feel you on the lag. It's been brutal for me since the NA datacenter moved. Trying to heal with this lag is absurd, I have to predict damage and heal before I even see anyone takes a hit.

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

And I also know the role of healer well enough to know how and when to stance flip and DPS. But there's a large difference between letting the healer manage themselves and kicking them out of a group because they didn't meet your ridiculous expectations. Personally I would gladly get kicked and find another group instead of having some elitist ass tell me all about how a healer is supposed to be DPSing world content.

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Agreed. To be clear I'm talking about healers who arent even trying. If they're new to the class, duty, or are suffering with the red lag circle of doom I'm not going to breath fire on them. If you're using emotes or just alt-tabbing some netflix, I'd politely request you entertain yourself by chucking rocks at mobs instead.

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

EDIT: I feel you on the lag. It's been brutal for me since the NA datacenter moved. Trying to heal with this lag is absurd, I have to predict damage and heal before I even see anyone takes a hit.

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Mines hardware related but the move nailed a lot of my friends. Hopefully routing improves and cuts down on it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by szalkerous

As a raid healer in many MMOs, I'll say things like "kick the healer if they don't DPS" is absolutely absurd. Healers are there to HEAL first, that's their JOB. If they have downtime to weave in some DPS that's up to them. Unless you're in progression raid content, that's a real low move to kick a healer for simply focusing on their job. My two cents.

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Is it really so absurd to expect a party member to not standing there doing nothing?

Also, "many MMOs" doesn't apply to this game. In this game, barely any healing is necessary, especially in dungeons or 24-player raids.