I don't see the grand picture. Help me understand.

To your point regarding crafting end-game gear:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear? Um.. k.

---

You say that all you'd need to do is sit in town, craft, and get end game gear that way, yes?

When the first NMs came out, the best items were made by crafters. Did you feel that "Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear?" was the standard way of getting the best gear (Barbarian Bardiche, Aeolean Scimitar, Champion Lance, Dodore Doublet) back then?

Did you think that the process was too heavily skewed in the crafters' favor back then?

having those mounts over colored choco's is probably a way to buy some people into paying for some of these up coming months that the game isn't ready yet and they charging. can be only real reason, stay and we will give you these mounts, i'm sure if the game didn't flop at launch SE would of already tried cash shoping some of these things >< they are targeting the group of players that would happily pay for these things either way.

While i know it is no where near a one size fits all perfect solution. there are stop gap solutions available to us until the ability to cast said spells is put back into our hands.

The stop gap measures being effective use of the combo system and the use of the enfeebling potions to plug the gaps of what is not present in there, but I digress.


When you zoom out as far as you possibly can.

I do not think the over all Grand picture has shifted. That being a game where you can pop in and do a little bit when you are low on time. With stuff to do when you have more time to spend playing. The failure on the macro level here being the second half. I think you would be hard pressed to find any one that would categorically disagree with that.

The bigger picture is a bit difficult to judge. We have a bunch of fragments of it, heck we have some fragments that fit together. But there are still are missing pieces and if there is one thing that scares or makes people uneasy it is the unknown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griss

The bigger picture is a bit difficult to judge. We have a bunch of fragments of it, heck we have some fragments that fit together. But there are still are missing pieces and if there is one thing that scares or makes people uneasy it is the unknown.

---

All I'm personally worried about at this point is just how extensively are they going to address the small things. We know that as far as the major game systems are concerned they won't leave a rock unturned. That still leaves a lot of current minor stuff needing to be changed or added to fit to the new status quo later when 2.0 hits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weeble

i think SE is overworked, for every mistake they fix they are making another 3. sounds like they plan on rewrapping the spells maybe later in a new class or a cap raise, either way i don't like it. a year b4 needed to debuff? long time. i can only assume 2.0 will have them again and they better make them very important, they were my favorite parts of mage classes.

---

Agreed /win

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i dont care if they get re introduced at 2.0. i want them now since i did use them and did find them to be effective ever since stats become useful.
why take them out now? dots saved my ass so many times.

---

I totally agree with you, if they can't get the current game up to par until 2.0 they should have the server shutdown until then. And they were talking about charging us at this current state.. If they think v.2.0 will fix everything, then should also start charging us until then. It is not the player's fault that the game is at this current state and that it isn't already like 2.0 now.shutdowns the server, fix the game, surprise us, this will bring back players heart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyariko

I totally agree with you, if they can't get the current game up to par until 2.0 they should have the server shutdown until then. And they were talking about charging us at this current state.. If they think v.2.0 will fix everything, then should also start charging us until then. It is not the player's fault that the game is at this current state and that it isn't already like 2.0 now.shutdowns the server, fix the game, surprise us, this will bring back players heart.

---

like a year ago i would of not agree'd at all with this, prior to the game launching i was like ppshh i'll pay now even in beta form just to get to play early but totally the opposite now. i think that the inch by inch of playing is killing the game for me. it would be way better in SE's interest to just shut down, and then let us play ..that way all the content is out at once and it's like a real launch.

Doctor Mog: The grand picture is unknown at the moment because they haven't setup the dart boad or lottery so they can decide on how to change/implement game content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyariko

I totally agree with you, if they can't get the current game up to par until 2.0 they should have the server shutdown until then. And they were talking about charging us at this current state.. If they think v.2.0 will fix everything, then should also start charging us until then. It is not the player's fault that the game is at this current state and that it isn't already like 2.0 now.shutdowns the server, fix the game, surprise us, this will bring back players heart.

---

They arent ever going to do a server shutdown prior to any large scale updates (aside from maintenance of course). As far as charging goes, hopefully the reduced fee makes sense, not to mention we dont really know the entirety of the next patch contents, but I get where you're coming from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I don't see the grand picture. Help me understand.

---

Here:

http://chicagoregen.com/wp-content/u...d-canyon-3.jpg

Class System

The armoury system we have now spawned the super-class monsters you see in Ifrit videos. Everyone using powerful skills cherry-picked from their full arsenal of level 50 classes. The announced class changes for 1.20 are more than I was expecting, but I like the bold move. These new versions of the classes have fewer actions and more identity. Those few actions can be leveraged into more effects (including debuffs) through self-combos. Once these changes have been out for a while, a new version of battle regimes can make a comeback allowing for even more effects (including more debuffs). I like the looks of this new direction better than I do the current armoury system.

It is strange to have no offensive water spell, especially considering the elemental wheel would make a logical foundation for future battle regime effects.

I am used to mages being the source of debuffs. A system where debuffs are the realm of self-combos and party-wide battle regimes sounds intriguing though. Maybe silence will come from using offensive wind magic as part of a battle regime.

Gear Value

There is a spectrum of materia-augmented gear and a spectrum of NM dropped gear. If Ifrit weapons are on par with double materia crafted weapons, that would seem about right to me. Are they? I don't know. I haven't looked at their stats closely aside from the lance. The NM drop will not gimp you in any way and will also have the looks/trophy value. Some people will find it easier to acquire the NM drop and some the crafted weapon and most will never see either. Looking at pre-materia NM drops, sure it looks bad for raiders, but all of that gear was put in before the stat adjustments. It might as well have the "dated" prefix. We'll see how future NM drops measure up.

you will get the grand picture after you experience the game and pay @ 1.20

this game needs some time to find itself

SE made the huge mistake of giving us all these spells and abilities right off the bat.

conjurer had 3 levels of cure and raise. if they'd kept these spells, what the hell would conjurer have gained post cap increase?

SE has removed alot of spells, abilities and actions, but thats good because when the level cap rises, we have the chance to get them back with (hopefully) higher efficiency.

as for those thats been removed entirely, they'll be back on new classes/jobs

I do agree with most of what Doctor said. Especially on the debuff thingy since i always wanted to be a debuffer. So thm was perfect back in the day, wasn't much anymore when he became the 2 spells spaming blm and won't be at all with the update coming. I guess i'll wait till 2.0 huh.

Regarding the crafted/raid gear there is a very simple solution (sorry if it has been mentionned before, didn't read the whole thing) and it was under Yoshi nose right from the start (maybe he would have seen it if he stopped talking so much about Rift, Aion and every other mmo): Copy FFXI, give us the ability to change gear while fighting and make the gears situational. So you'll have to get some of your stuff through raidswhile some other things you'll be able to get them crafted.
And of course keep some more standard and decent items into the game for those who doesn't want to change gear during combat. Or maybe materias could do the trick in this case.

Oh and please, don't give me the realism plea on this. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

If crafted gear is better or equal to raid gear, why raid?
Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear? Um.. k.

---

I think you were joking here but I'm not certain, either way you can spend the time needed as a DD to work toward your ifrit weapon of choice or you can craft an inferior version. In order to come close to the ifrit weapons you need a crafted +3 with double materia or more. I know hart+2 with double STR materia was a good margin behind the harpoon LNC's on countless parses. Is every piece of NM/coffer loot the best in slot? no but many have their places. Sipahee turban, sentinel set, some of the mage -emnity pieces (maybe more need for this in the future). Also I have a feeling the formula's behind the curtain are still getting adjusted as of right now INT has a greater impact then magic attack pot. 1:1 and this to me seems like a mistake. I'm sure there are other areas of adjustment needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crunkjuice

SE is making it fair for everyone not just you idiots who played threw the broken release and have every class 50 now. game should not be based around lvling every class to 50. get over it.

---

Your face is an idiot. Don't insult people for finding enjoyment in the game you didn't.

It seems a majority of the gripes on her are temporary issues or anticipatory whining sans the good Dr's open question. No one can yet know our destination, so just try to enjoy the ride!

The grand picture is turn this MMO into a typical MMO thus transitioning into a game with no identity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madruk

We're essentially playing that wait game whether they give us info or not. What we're experiencing is the gradual changes to herald the coming of 2.0. Most everything we do in the game right now will be obsolete by next year so if you came back after a 10 month break you wouldn't miss out on much.

---

I think you missed my point.

SE can say "this is everything we're planning to do: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9"

Systems : ABCD will be implemented in the next 3 version updates. The rest will be ver 2.0 or later.

Whats the point of revealing anything past system "D"?

So we can hold our breath even longer and become disappointed when systems "TUV" get cut, and systems "567" get pushed back?


We already have the big picture. We don't have all the details. Those come when they are ready to presented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I think you missed my point.

SE can say "this is everything we're planning to do: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9"

Systems : ABCD will be implemented in the next 3 version updates. The rest will be ver 2.0 or later.

Whats the point of revealing anything past system "D"?

So we can hold our breath even longer and become disappointed when systems "TUV" get cut, and systems "567" get pushed back?


We already have the big picture. We don't have all the details. Those come when they are ready to presented.

---

Your example works if SE would even give us ABC.

But they don't until patch day for ABC. And they give us teasers for F and L

I'm with mog, I just want more relevant info for stuff that is right around the corner, less "detailed information" about F and L because we all know it's going to change. Also, where are all my abilities/spells post 1.2?? I like choosing what is usable for every situation, don't dumb it down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AtlasThomas

I'm with mog, I just want more relevant info for stuff that is right around the corner, less "detailed information" about F and L because we all know it's going to change. Also, where are all my abilities/spells post 1.2?? I like choosing what is usable for every situation, don't dumb it down.

---

Looks like Thursday/Friday will be a new Letter from the Producer talking about 1.20.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Water is not an offensive spell gained by BLM, CON or THM.
(on a side note the elemental wheel is all over the place and now it will be worse)

"Skillchains" have come back as self combos, (where is the party play?)

All classes just lost 10+ abilities each (understandable assuming the skills don't suck)

There are not Damage over time spells (saved for a new class?)

There are no enfeeble spells (paralyze, slow etc...)



I am not complaining, but I really need help in seeing the vision SE has for this game. This vision is not like any other game I have ever played, and I can not see how innovating new mechanics in FFXIV a second time will help. This game needs some solid, already tested, mechanics. Ones people know, ones people agree are staples to the MMO genre.

A messed up Elemental wheel, a lack of debuffs, no party incentive (except loot? Thats another story... crafted vs NM loot... jesus...)

If crafted gear is better or equal to raid gear, why raid?
Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear? Um.. k.


I need some help community, where is this game going?

---

I believe a party based combo system is still in the works, and I'm fine with moving a lot of key enfeeble effects to combos (personal or party) rather than spells as I liked that aspect of the Battle Regimen System. I think it gives melee some balance that isn't reliant on their pure damage numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

A messed up Elemental wheel, a lack of debuffs, no party incentive (except loot? Thats another story... crafted vs NM loot... jesus...)

If crafted gear is better or equal to raid gear, why raid?
Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear? Um.. k.


I need some help community, where is this game going?

---

I agree with this part. I am starting to wonder if it is not going in the direction I want it. Especially with the latest announcement that they are keeping personal loot lists, it seems like a direct attack on the whole idea of organized endgame/teamplay.

I play MMO's to socialize and play with others, I come to rely on my linkshell, and I enjoy being part of a community. Yet, Yoshida now seems bent on putting my experience in a bubble to "protect" me from ninja looters and "elitism". If as a group I kill something I should be able to share my rewards with my fellow group members who helped kill it.

Not everyone in 2012 is an anti-social prick who can't play with others. If Yoshida is insisting on designing a game for those people maybe he is in the wrong genre. Single player and lobby games are that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephr

That's because we're not developing the game. We only know what we've been told, but the things being asked aren't covered by that, are they?

---

Which is exactly the point, we are given answers, but it raises more concerns. And when we are finally given something concrete its like what are they thinking? lol The things being asked should've been covered. They knew we were going to be uspet by removing certain things. Did they expect they could just remove all these essential items from a MMO and we would say "Oh, Ok."? No, it raises concerns and questions. Mainly, Why???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I need some help community, where is this game going?

---

inb4 Letter from the Producer 21 - We are no longer updating FFXIV, and 2.0 is being scrapped. kthnxbai

When Doctor Mog has a problem Neptune takes notice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Water is not an offensive spell gained by BLM, CON or THM.
(on a side note the elemental wheel is all over the place and now it will be worse)

"Skillchains" have come back as self combos, (where is the party play?)

All classes just lost 10+ abilities each (understandable assuming the skills don't suck)

There are not Damage over time spells (saved for a new class?)

There are no enfeeble spells (paralyze, slow etc...)



I am not complaining, but I really need help in seeing the vision SE has for this game. This vision is not like any other game I have ever played, and I can not see how innovating new mechanics in FFXIV a second time will help. This game needs some solid, already tested, mechanics. Ones people know, ones people agree are staples to the MMO genre.

A messed up Elemental wheel, a lack of debuffs, no party incentive (except loot? Thats another story... crafted vs NM loot... jesus...)

If crafted gear is better or equal to raid gear, why raid?
Sit in town, craft better gear, then don't raid because you have the best gear? Um.. k.


I need some help community, where is this game going?

---

Well if you don't want the game to be new, innovative, interesting and exciting then by all means complain about all these things.

I want to be clueless when 2.0 is released. There was a learning curve in FFXI that very few hit. It wasn't the same as any other MMORPG. You couldn't even find all the tactical information online. Far as I know anyway, I can only read English. The situational strategy in FFXI was by far the most in depth of any MMORPG available in America to date. Every other MMORPG felt like a cake walk after 11, like turning on a water faucet and filling up a bucket. Why I posted this, I'm not sure anymore. But if FFXIV can please those that want to play casually 8 hours a day, or want a game to push the minds a bit and only play for maybe an hour, I will be very happy.

why make useless threads when you are still not experiencing the changes?

half of the information is still not out in lodestone.

these forums = your personal lulz and gags for mods to ponder and laugh at your threads.

/end of thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I dont think:



because if innovation was what people wanted, FFXIV wouldn't be where it is now. FFXIV started "too far outside normal MMO's rules" and for that, its paid dearly.


And as for:



Why even raid? Hell why even put raids in the game? I can just sit in town and get the best gear. Never kill a single monter.

Right now, the only reason we kill Ifrit is because the weapons look good. They are no better than double materia'd crafted items. Plus, crafting an item is 100% chance to make the item and 19% chance to double materia it (in 10-15 minutes?).

Getting a (WORSE item) Ifrit drops are 5% droprate for 30 minutes of work, a HIGH chance at failure, an even higher chance to get DOUBLE items you already have, and prereq quests up the wazoo. Not to mention you need multiple jobs at 50 to accomplish it regularly. Oh and not to mention 7 OTHER people who have all of the above mentioned, and aren't a complete Derp.

Where is the balance of effort vs reward?

So, triple the effort needed by raiding, times 7 other people, for worse items.

Where is the balance here?

I am so confused....

---

uh ifrit weapons are better than a double materiad item, in fact they are better than a double materia +3 item,

in fact they are slightly better than a +3 triple materia item.

hard example.

cobalt claws to come close to ifrit would need
+3 to get its damage slightly below ifrits, and a level IV materia for attack, a level IV materia for resistance a level IV materia for adding fire damage.

note that of the last two materias it would need, 1 doesnt actually occur in that slot, and the other does not exist.

Ifrits is a unique and powerful weapon, comparable in power to the best of weapons, with abilities that cant be found from any other source.
It is also easier to get an ifrit weapon than it is to make a +3 3x materiad top tier level IV weapon by far.

quoting this for a mass of math.

Quote:

---

also if you want compute the amopunt of peoples time that goes into each weapon, you have to compute the time a gather spent gathering Ores, wood, horns etc, which is probably about 60 minutes(for +3 mats) per item needed in the recipe, the time the crafter spends synthing those parts which is about 1.5 minutes per raw material to turn it into base material. then you assume that of those +3s only about 1/5 will turn into actual +3 base mats, so multiply that 60 minutes times 5, and the 7.5 minutes for turning base materials times 5, so you are now at 5.5 hours per attempt at HQ weapon, but even with all the mats, you probably will only get a +3 1/8 times, so multiply that by 8. now your up to 44 hours of players time to create a +3, now to get a top teir materia, its probably about an hour per materia attempt? and it requires a base gear which probably costs about 20 minutes in man hours to produce, and to get it to bond that fast your probably need a party of 7 people. out of each bond, most like 1/15? will be that top class teir IV item that people wanted to put in a specific slot?

so now you take that 44, and you ad 20 hours for the first materia, add 20 hours for the second materia, and multiply it 5 for the attempt to add it, now your looking at 84 x 5 hours which is 420 hours for a +3 2x materia, multiply that times 10 to see how many man hours a +3 3xmateria items costs.

---

long story short, your looking at about 4200 hours of combined player work to see a +3 3xmateria item.

which in order to be the same player work for ifrits, at absolute worst .5x8 per attempt, or 4 combined hours per player. heck ill even ad 30 minutes per player to get the tapers, so 8 combined hours. you would need to be 1/500 before it would be as a rare as an equivalent materiad item. in man hours to obtain.

Hey Mog,
I have no answer to your questions but here is some food for thoughts.

When thinking about where the game is going, there is something to bear in mind I believe: some elements are added as part of the coming 2.0 version and some others are added to make us wait.
I'm thinking of the ifrit loot system. It seems unlikely to me that they didn't know the current systemt is a mindless time-sink. I'm assuming they made it so to keep us busy. Now that we complained enough, they are gonna change it.
That doesn't explain why no water spell, enfeebles etc I guess.

I personaly don't worry too much about it since everything will change again when the level cap is raised. We will have to trash our gear and learn the new battle balance at that cap and the new abilities. And maybe that's where our missing spells are... Who knows?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindx3

Hopefully the difficulty will come with the content they give us. I for one think by limiting players to 15 moves and shifting around DoTs and other debuffs like slow will make us dependant on other players and creating more team work instead of the current spam fest we have now.

Every class / job got atleast one usefull move for party mechanics

-Edit-

I remember Yoshi saying something about having everyone do their job for the success of the party, he wanted to make everyone feel like "yes! we survived because i did a good job and so did my team mates" or something like that

---

Good post, i agree with this. I think it's best for the longevity and success of the game.
Zerg/spamfest is very backwards and will kill the game in the long run.

The other point to mention is.. it should be realized that SE needs to make way and room for new classes in the future.
If they introduced all the spells now to only 2 mage classes. would be hard to invent new mages classes with good purpose. Perhaps they have a debuffer class in the works. I think it's a good, short list of meaningful abilities that define each class and gives it identity and purpose in a party instead of party of clones as is atm.

This game is only at the beginning of it's life, im sure they have many new spells/abilities/classes/jobs/features/combos planned out for the future.

I do sincerely hope though that self combos are absolutely not replacing party combos which i dont believe they are as they are re-working battle regimen system. So let's see how things turn out..

You got spells like bind, stun and heavy on thm and you see this on other classes aswell (PUG and WAR) my best guess is that there is going to be some kind of tactical element involved in the use of the skills and we will see how that works on the moogle fight.

But it's a guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

people keep praising

"its easier for newbies and the hardcore though..."
"its easier to balance"
"its easier its easier its easier"

i want a massive list of spells so i can choose how i solo THEN change to whats necessary for my grouping and endgaming.

---

Yeah this is so depressing. What the heck SE - mages with only 5ish spells? I mean nukes of 2 different elements AOE and non AOE, a "spell" which is more like an ability and sleep? That's just sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuxLex

Yeah this is so depressing. What the heck SE - mages with only 5ish spells? I mean nukes of 2 different elements AOE and non AOE, a "spell" which is more like an ability and sleep? That's just sad.

---

People that play FFXI said Abyssea sounded horrendous when they seen it was battle content involved in the 3 reskinned crag areas initially, therefore they judged before actually experiencing. Fast forward a year and guess what's XI all about? Abyssea and Voidwatch, I guess Abyssea wasn't such a horrible thing since everyone spammed the living hell out of it when SE introduced it.

Not only is our cap not final, but this is just the start of it, because jobs will also include more spells and abilities. Did we also forget that things scale as we level? When you have a handful of quality (tbd) spells that scale, it's better than having 80 spells that does set damage or that 1 spell (like most MMOs) that does insane damage or completely broken to use (like how mystics used to be in Tera.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TinnySnips

I think the vision is pretty simple. The foundation of the ability system in this game is completely rotten. A new foundation is needed, and they have chosen a simple foundation upon which to build. We don't need 25-40 skills per class to have interesting combat. What we need is fewer, more useful skills that can be used together in solo and party situations. I look at the ability list and I see most of what is good about the current system with less trash.

Here lies a bit o' speculation Debuffs are gone, not because the devs don't think they're important, but because we want our job system now (and they want it now. It needs to have some time in the wild before 2.0 is released). THM was going to necessarily lose the debuffs before the job system came out. The next class will almost certainly be the debuff class, but it's not ready yet. I think the Devs made the decision to implement class changes and the job system sooner rather than later, then fill that debuffing gap when the new class is ready.

I see a vision. It hasn't so much been announced, but I think that if you use a little imagination and read a little between the lines it starts to become clear. But hell, this is just me, and I have been wrong many, many times.

---

Great post by Tin.

I agree with many that it seemed frustrating and a bit surprising at first, learning that all Debuff Spells were removed, but even as a mage, I felt the same way Tin did after a few minutes of soaking it in.

Getting back to representing more Final Fantasy Jobs, I definitely see the possibility of adding in Red Mage, or Blue Mage or some debuff Mage Class to take up the role of Debuffing.

Even from the early days of playing mage in this game, I felt Tanaka's design for Mages was pretty broken and rushed and haphazard:

• You learned all *6* (Six) Elemental Attack Spells in 1 level up.
• You get dumped all *6* Elemental Debuffs (Burn, Choke, Drown, Frost, Rasp, Shock) in 1 level.
• They dump ALL Ancient Magic Spells (Tornado, Burst, Flare, Flood, Quake, Freeze) - some of the most famous Magic in Final Fantasy history - in 1 level, with no fanfare or presentation or buildup. Huh?!
• etc.

They were giving us way too many spells (many were mediocre, or limited usage) and rushing / dumping the important ones all at once.

It's good to start from a solid foundation and focus on the important, key spells, traits and abilities and go from there.

While all of us at Rank 50 for a while are probably used to having so many spells at our disposal, there's something to be said about cutting away the fat and having a better core group of spells for new players learning their jobs and veterans to focus on the new combos and potential new Skillchain / Battle Regimen 2.0 System coming.

It also allows for more spells to be awarded at a better pace for future Level Cap Raise, or Job Quests (to unlock more abilities and spells later).

Ultimately, we'll see where this goes, and I agree it'd be nice to have more information (e.g., the complete Job System and all roadmaps for future abilities now), but I'm willing to give this new system a try and see how it develops. :)

I do agree with the OP, the whole crafted vs NM loot is one of the biggest issues for me in this game at the moment.

If its not addressed by 2.0 I doubt I will be playing this game, Guildwars 2 is not far away ya know SE !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anon

Well here I thought this thread was about spells. Got a little side tracked with mounts but I don't really care if I don't like them i just wont use them but spells on the other hand are being forced upon me and they look like they suck or are plain ripoffs from non ff games..

---

Only because you insist on being blinded by your rage towards WoW, not once did it pop into my head that they were copying WoW with either the mounts or the Fire/Ice combo.

There are many things they are or have been copied from FF11 also, do you have such a big problem with those ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

Not only is our cap not final, but this is just the start of it, because jobs will also include more spells and abilities. Did we also forget that things scale as we level? When you have a handful of quality (tbd) spells that scale, it's better than having 80 spells that does set damage or that 1 spell (like most MMOs) that does insane damage or completely broken to use (like how mystics used to be in Tera.)

---

Sorry, this just isn't good enough for me. You may be happy with 2 elements only and 1 debuff - but I prefer a little more complexity. For example, I love my blu mage in XI, I love having tons and tons of spells - even if I can't set all of them at once, I love being able to plan based on what I am doing, what debuffs I need etc.

I mean, maybe some people only use 1 spell ever but I am always using tons of spells - like trying to learn "frightful roar" now so my battle goes like this:

Metallic body, refueling, cocoon - pull Brontotaur with wild oats, cast Angry Eye to reduce it's strength, cast seedspray to give it TP, cast magic fruit to heal myself, cast bludgeon to feed it more TP and damage it... cast geist wall when it uses it's shell move, cast poison breath to poison it, use chain affinity burst affinity red lotus blade sickle slash (darkness SC) digest (MAGIC BURST)

I understand that my preference is just that, my preference, but I think they went too far trying to arbitrarily give every class the same number of slottable abilities. It takes away all the fun of being a mage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiara

there's something to be said about cutting away the fat and having a better core group of spells

---

I would agree with you if this was enough to be considered a "core" - but I think they went past cutting the fat and started hacking away at the bones.

It could be as Hooliewho sort of hinted at that the vision may have changed after the Ifrit fight and people started taking in 7 lancers all with sentinel etc.

We can all see that the letter that announced the skill changes was very rushed so I wouldn't be surprised if they have done back over the class and job system to stop these incidents from happening in future.

Add ontop the removal of enfeebles and DoTs to be added to a class in the future you can start to see some kind of hazy picture at least.