[Personal Opinion] FFXIV is too casual friendly

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Unequipping will not make dungeons/mechanics more interesting. :(

You keep complaining you are not willing to play harder content just because some of the players request that, but at the same time you force them to play easy and, to them, dull content because you want it that way. Not really fair if you ask me. :x

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What difficulty level are you envisioning exactly? The reason EX dungeon mechanics can be dull is because they aren't punishing, particularly when your over geared which everyone tends to be pretty quickly. If you had some EX dungeons harder than others I can see a scenario where people would be abandoning the harder options when they pop up in the roulette because they would take longer and the risk of being in a group with 'bads' as happened with the Steps of Faith.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

A lot of people lately have been complaining about bad players. Have you considered that good players are helping make them bad? When you're ridiculously overgeared and insist on ignoring mechanics and powering through, even when one of the party members is brand new and at minimum ilvl, how do you expect them to improve? The worst thing I've seen bad players do is try to act like good players and fail (e.g., with large pulls or ignoring mechanics).

In fairness, the dungeon design allows for this, but still. The impatience of hardcore players who run off before you can cast stoneskin, immediately pull every boss, never explain anything to anyone, and don't even roll on loot is definitely not helping new players get better.

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If gear is too accessible in your game thats the dev fault really, not the players

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Unequipping will not make dungeons/mechanics more interesting. :(

You keep complaining you are not willing to play harder content just because some of the players request that, but at the same time you force them to play easy and, to them, dull content because you want it that way. Not really fair if you ask me. :x

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I was just talking about Expert Roulette in my answer to you (Don't ask me why it's called Expert, SE naming convention is weird).
As I said earlier I don't do current end content Raid, yet you don't see me complain about them. I just I ignore them, it's not the same thing. I'm glad they exists for those who enjoy them.
What I do not agree for is increasing the difficulty of the already existing content. If they want to make new harder versions, I dunno Uber-Savage something, untied to the MSQ, I'm fine with it. I just don't want the current existing ones to be made harder.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

I was just talking about Expert Roulette in my answer to you (Don't ask me why it's called Expert, SE naming convention is weird).
As I said earlier I don't do current end content Raid, yet you don't see me complain about them. I just I ignore them, it's not the same thing. I'm glad they exists for those who enjoys them.
What I do not agree for is increasing the difficulty of the already existing content. If they want to make new harder versions, I dunno Uber-Savage something I'm fine with it. I just don't want the current existing ones to be made harder.

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That what you write doesnt make any sense, you know what overgearing means right? You do it with gear that is NOT intended for that content, but you write like this is intended, thats a contradiction.

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Originally Posted by Annah

I think the progression is fine as it is but we do need better ways of getting equipment other than tome grindings.

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Or, just more efficient ways to grind tomes with.

Expert roulette gives 90 tomes a day in 20 minutes - next best thing is 60s roulette at between 25 and 45 tomes a day in 20 minutes. Even in the best case, that's only half and your other options aren't much more efficient, most of them are actually worse. It's not even a contest - everyone aiming to cap will naturally go to expert dungeons, which leaves variety lacking and (ironically) makes anima grinds more enjoyable to me than capping scripture.

The thing about difficulty is its very subjective. For me the Weeping City is about perfect difficulty: Mechanics that are punishing if ignored but still simple enough for a PUG with new players to clear.
However others in this thread have said that Weeping is still easy mode for them.
I can't really agree or disagree with the topic without knowing what the creator considers "Normal" difficulty.

I saw someone suggest leaving the story dungeons easy difficulty while making the optional ones harder. This will only work if the story dungeons are put in a separate roulette from the harder ones. Otherwise we'll get a repeat of 2.1 with people abandoning Pharos Sirius when they got it in roulette since Copperbell HM and Haukke HM were easier and gave the same rewards forcing SE to nerf Pharos to be in line with the other two.

Edit: Somewhat off topic but I consider tome grinding to be fine the way it is now. I usually cap without expert from activities like Aquapolis, PotD, grinding Alex normal for drops, ect. I view Expert Roulette as an option for people that don't have much time to play or have gotten close to the end of the week with few tomes to quickly cap as opposed to a necessity.

There are all sort of MMOs, some that are hardcore, some that are sandboxes, some that are casuals, some that are PvP, etc. FFXIV is a casual MMO and it caters to casual players. There are already difficult contents and savage contents, and the raid coming in 3.5 will probably be difficult, but the main game caters to casuals. I'm a casual player myself and my disabilities make what seem "normal" to others difficult for me. I download videos guides of trials and raids so that I know the mecanic before I go there so that I'm more prepared.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

That what you wirte doesnt make any sense, you know what overgearing means right? You do it with gear that is NOT intended for that content, but you write like this is intended, thats a contradiction.

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Yes it is, but that's on SE, not me. It means SE has decided to allow players to be potentially be better equipped than intended for a dungeon.

Now you can argue that it should not be, and that the level sync/ILVL requirements for each dungeon should be strictly enforced to what the dungeon was intended for, thus keeping the challenge intended more or less the same regardless of the player overlevel and overgears. I find that a legitimate request.

However I think allowing a dungeon to be potentially overgeared by the players, allows less skill players to compensate for their lack of efficiency by grinding better gears and then try again the dungeon.

Also some players may argue that what would be the point for them to get higher level gears, if they don't see any difference in power when doing old content. The new Unsync feature could be answer to that, however you cannot queue for a random group while being Unsync.

Personally I wish when queuing for random matched party on the Duty, that we could choose if we want to be potientially matched with Unsync players, while on the other hand enforcing strict level/Ilvel sync for those who choose not.
This will allow players, if they want to, of any level with any gear to enjoy the dungeon as the original challenget was meant to be.
While allowing other players who wants their higher gears and levels to mean something when replaying old content to queue Unsync.

My opinion: The dev team doesn't understand what we (or at least *I*) mean by having more challenging content.

I don't mean having more raid / extreme primal level difficulty. I mean having an expert dungeon that actually requires attention. An expert dungeon that you don't mass pull, not because of stop-gaps, but because it will likely kill the group. I want mechanics that punish you for ignoring them, but don't just wipe the group when you're with a new person.

Currently, it feels like the dev team implements brain dead content and smash your head on the desk content, with nothing in between.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

Yes it is, but that's on SE, not me. I find that a legitimate request.

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Yes it is, and yes i would request that


actually what my orginal request was/is, is like when you do quests to unlock hard modes and normal raids (basicly everything that is queble in a group content) they do a skill check to acess it like sky sea stone or something like that, so they can be sure that when you queue in this content you dont wasting people time because you are like level 60 and dont know how youre basic rotation works.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

However I think allowing a dungeon to be potentially overgeared by the players, allows less skill players to compensate for their lack of efficiency by grinding better gears and then try again the dungeon.

Also some players may argue that what would be the point for them to get higher level gears, if they don't see any difference in power when doing old content. The new Unsync feature could be answer to that, however you cannot queue for a random group while being Unsync.

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They can do it on the next expansion, dont seem a problem to me.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

While allowing other players who wants their higher gears to mean something while replaying old content to queue Unsync.

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Again, that doesnt make sense to me, you write like oh there should be a extra mode for people that want to the content on a level that is intended, i mean thats sound wrong to me i dont know.


Also why should this game handing gear and rewards to you when you dont perform? If its about content why are you not the suggesting opposite of that; there should be a easy mode with less rewards then rather a harder mode with no extra rewards? Thats a broken reward structure

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

I suppose the RAIDs is what you're supposed to do for challenge, not the roulettes. Of course once you've done it all, the only thing you can do is wait for new harder content.

As for if you REALLY care about getting more challenge while playing lower difficulty dungeon, you can always temporarily unequip all or part of your equipment but the weapon to make it harder :p

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For those of us who don't have time to raid (my dedicated raid time is saved for WildStar, which IMO has the best raiding content ever designed), we are left with nothing but piss-easy content. There shouldn't be anything wrong with creating actually challenging 4-man content. Removing gear does not make content challenging when the mechanics are so simple that I can practically fall asleep and still survive through a fight. All changing your gear does is slightly alter the potency of your damage/heals/survivability. That's not interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/XiQheRj.jpg

This debate in a nutshell.

By the way, sprinkles are the bomb.

If there so many of the player base that wants to keep the content easy without having to put much effort in then I can see where the reputation the world has of people that play games comes from.

The point of the game since this team over is to ensure the game is casual friendly. From the beginning YoshiP has been stating that ARR and beyond will be a game where you can sit down and invest short periods of time and feel accomplished in the game. This has been the mission statement for the team in essence. You're playing the wrong game or are being willfully ignorant if you won't acknowledge this.

This is the direction all MMOs have taken lately with the exceptions being the small team based projects that are basically pet projects by old industry giants such as Mark Jacobs and his wonderful Camelot Unchained project. There are a few other such projects but most of them will never come to fruition because they don't have leaders who know what they are doing pushing the project to completion in the way Camelot Unchained does in MJ who is a legitimate visionary in the industry. If you want good, hardcore, MMO greatness CU is going to give it to you. Other games like Pantheon may or may not come to be. Brad McQuaid's history of not getting shit done is well documented and the project is rather ambitious, but looks like it would be great if it can get pushed out some time before 2030. Same thing goes for most of the other projects of this vein.

Unfortunately, we're in an era in online gaming where the influence of online shooter arenas and MOBAs has bled into and overtaken the influence of the traditional MMO. Only unfortunate if that is what you're still looking for, I suppose, but never the less it is the current scenario. MMOs are now designed to be consumed in small 20-60 minute sessions rather than things taking 20-60 minutes just to get organized and travel to the location to get started on an activity.

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Originally Posted by Khubla_Kha

Unfortunately, we're in an era in online gaming where the influence of online shooter arenas and MOBAs has bled into and overtaken the influence of the traditional MMO. Only unfortunate if that is what you're still looking for, I suppose, but never the less it is the current scenario. MMOs are now designed to be consumed in small 20-60 minute sessions rather than things taking 20-60 minutes just to get organized and travel to the location to get started on an activity.

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So, this design shift may be in part due to that. But, it's in large part due to demographic shifts. In school, we all had time for an evening of raiding and an hour of just prep work. As we grew up, that was no longer the case. Now, we're married, with kids and demanding careers.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

are people seriously saying weeping city is hard? there is nothing hard in this game since years...
this games revolves and recycles always the same mechanic, dodge, avoid that, prey and crap like these. Palace of the dead is the sum of all mechanics in game, which again is extremely boring and easy.
what is hard on weeping city? the sphere boss? please lol..

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odd then that you haven't managed to reach floor 200.

and to answer your question, no, no-one said WC was hard, the general consensus was that is quite well received, and was generally an appropriate level of difficulty for a 24 man raid

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Originally Posted by Naunet

For those of us who don't have time to raid (my dedicated raid time is saved for WildStar, which IMO has the best raiding content ever designed), we are left with nothing but piss-easy content. There shouldn't be anything wrong with creating actually challenging 4-man content. Removing gear does not make content challenging when the mechanics are so simple that I can practically fall asleep and still survive through a fight. All changing your gear does is slightly alter the potency of your damage/heals/survivability. That's not interesting.

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Naunet oO`?
Oli here :D Glad to see you here ^^

And fully with you on this one. Challenging content doesn't have to be raids only.
Can be dungeons, can even be a solo quest that pushes your class to it's limits.

I do miss some more difficult dungeons.

I remember the time we have to set someone to open doors in Diabolos fight, it was pretty awesome!

That is why I loved Weeping City, it remembered me of those moments.

It's good to have some fast dungeons to cap tombstone faster, but I think I like to have more hard and challenge dungeons. o.o

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Over all we have:
- Easy Main Scenario Quests.
- Easy Job Quests.
- Easy Dungeons.

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We do, and they start off easy, but like you said shouldn't stay that way. They give us tools and tips for upcoming battles but we rarely need to use them. I wouldn't want an easy and normal, I'd like it more if easy was bumped up to a normal difficulty.

Things like Sastasha are good, they teach us about groups of mobs, dodging, and taking care of adds during a fight. Along with environmental hazards. Yet it becomes so easy, you can just ignore something critical such as environmental awareness, by not clicking and bringing the adds up. There's no punishment, so it encourages the zerg-fest. It is much like the Guildhest where you fight the Iron Giant, and just ignore the skellies. There should be a boost to things like that, instead when an add is allowed to spawn a series of boosts are applied to the Boss. First could be a defensive boost, the next a regen, third would be an increase to his attack and having all 4 would give the boss the ability to apply the boosts to everyone.

To me, Brayflox shows the first real challenge by ignoring mechanics but even that is iffy. Some ignore adds, burn boss. Some kill adds and some ignore adds and die. Though I think the debuffs like poison are underrated. Still, it would be too hard since some people do not get Esuna until later. Maybe that will be a change in the new job role abilities. Just give Esuna to everyone around that level and don't give it 3 different names.

Enhancing content so that debuffs do something, mobs enhance themselves and others, environmental awareness. All could possibly lead to people doing their jobs to their full potential at that level and unknowingly increase their skill while having fun. In return I believe they need to lower the amount of trash mobs between bosses in the lower dungeons.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Naunet oO`?
Oli here :D Glad to see you here ^^

And fully with you on this one. Challenging content doesn't have to be raids only.
Can be dungeons, can even be a solo quest that pushes your class to it's limits.

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*waves!* :D

I think its a lack of tolerance and understanding, I would hope that people runnin the same dungeons for a few years now would be alot better than players who hve been playing about 6 months. Ive seen so many vets leave and give up on new players Ive never seen a new player abandon, this game is just like everything else in life some catch up faster than others. But if you dont want bad players around are u doing anything to help the cause. Im an average player its many people that can play a battle class better than me, but what I dont do is leave a dungeon, what i try not to do is pull something before explaining certain things. I try and help others learn not, shun them for not knowing.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I think its a lack of tolerance and understanding, I would hope that people runnin the same dungeons for a few years now would be alot better than players who hve been playing about 6 months. Ive seen so many vets leave and give up on new players Ive never seen a new player abandon

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Granted, I am still new, but here's my experience:

New players don't abandon, but they rarely if ever fix their mistakes, either. This leads to repeated wipes, until old players get sick of no progress being made, so they abandon a lost cause party.

Of all the players I've met in duties, the ones who actually read chat and fixed their issues in a fight are nearly nonexistent. My clears have come from experienced players being able to carry the people that die the same way 5 times.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Granted, I am still new,

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but see the thing is this go back and watch and old guide like on youtube , like an old extreme titan guide, or an extreme ifrit guide, and ull notice people sayin how hard how challenging how many times they had to come back and try again, how some beat it with minutes remaining. With how it is now new players arent given that chance I literally qued for thormarch extreme we died twice once i was the last person alive as a bard, u know what the duty group did left was litearlly 45 mins left, ur average dungeon takes like 15 to 30 mins depending on. So yes vets carry, but at the sametime like I said its no tolerance, Ive seen many new players adjust to do things better in my experience , I take heed to stuff Ive been told myself. Also if content is so easy then unsync wouldn't be a thing for pony farming and such , if it was that easy people would just get some friends together sync up and do it but they dont.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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There's a difference. When the content was new and current, those groups trying and wiping were actually making progress. There was a purpose to the grind. My attempts at Levi EX yesterday? They were doomed from the start, because the people doing this content now aren't trying to improve. They're trying to get carried. No matter how many times you tell someone "The tail reflects magic damage", it only matters if that player will actually listen and work.

I loved seeing WC groups wipe due to stupidity, but part of me wishes for more gates to keep those wanting carries out. Average is perfectly fine, but braindead shouldn't be rewarded.

I don't necessarily agree that the base game needs to be more difficult; however, I think they could solve this dispute by increasing the ways to effectively gain tomestones. The roulettes are pretty much the only feasible means to effectively cap out week after week which forces ALL players to run incredibly simple content that I frequently begin to despise within 2-3 weeks of patch release. However, I'm forced to run it day after day anyway because all other content drops such minute amounts of lore and scripture that it just isn't feasible to run challenging content to cap.

The "Casual" crowd frequently claims that things shouldn't be made more difficult because it would force them to play content that isn't designed for their skill level but they fail to realize that more skilled players are constantly forced to play content that is not commensurate to their skill level by forcing them to run snooze fest dungeons. I don't like to log into the game and be bored for the first 30 minutes to an hour and a half that I play depending on how many roulettes I have to complete to accomplish my current objectives.

If other forms of content received a boost to their tomestone drops bringing them up to a level that I could farm efficiently, I would happily stay in the content that my skill level best fits. At that point I wouldn't care one bit if dungeons were a simple outing that I only had to clear once. As it stands though, each Alexander Savage floor gives a whopping 30 scriptures. Less than half of one dungeon roulette and once you have your drops for the week, there is little incentive to go back and help others clear the floors for 30 scripture per floor and each floor could take a substantial amount of title depending on the group you go with.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

So, this design shift may be in part due to that. But, it's in large part due to demographic shifts. In school, we all had time for an evening of raiding and an hour of just prep work. As we grew up, that was no longer the case. Now, we're married, with kids and demanding careers.

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Right, but there are new young people that have the amounts of free time we once did. It's not just us playing these games, there are new young gamers. Just as many people stop playing MMOs entirely due to time constraints from things like jobs, parenthood & other obligations as look to find MMO catered to their time restraints.

As you say this is part of the reason for the shift. It's also that the gaming world has evolved with the rest of the consumer based world where everything is far more disposable and consumed in smaller doses than they used to be. Average movies are now 65-80 minutes instead of 90-120. Single player games are now generally 8-12 hours instead of 20-40. FPS games now (for the most part) completely forego having single player campaign (yes this is a gross generalization) to focus on being online shooter arenas because that can be consumed more quickly while giving the same sense of accomplishment of getting something done. There are many reasons. I wasn't trying to encompass them all or make it seem like that was the only reason.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I have 4 toons. I keep them all at current content and reasonably geared. It's a lot of work. I know I'm crazy to do it but I do. I just don't want to have to deal with wipe fests when dealing with the tome grind. Now if they want harder content I'd support raid or extreme level difficulty dungeons like our extreme primals but please don't make those part of the normal tome grind we need to run daily.

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This is a fallacy. No one is asking for extremely difficult dungeons. We're asking they not be completely mindless. I have literally been apart of a big pull in Xelphatol where the Scholar tanked it. As a tank, myself, if I pull small packs as the devs prefer, the healer can outright /sit because I'll never come remotely close to dying. If I play healer, I'll spend at least 50% of my time in Cleric Stance. Weeping City wasn't an immense challenge. It simply required you to use your brain and actually know how to play the game. How often do we all complain about people having no idea how to use a proper rotation? They don't know because there's absolutely nothing to incentivize them to learn one. What motivation do they have to learn when the content they do is so absurdly easy, they can press two buttons and clear it, no problem? No offense, but if you (generalizing) having a full time job makes it too difficult to actually have pay attention as a healer. That is not the game's fault.

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Originally Posted by Dement

The "Casual" crowd frequently claims that things shouldn't be made more difficult because it would force them to play content that isn't designed for their skill level but they fail to realize that more skilled players are constantly forced to play content that is not commensurate to their skill level by forcing them to run snooze fest dungeons. I don't like to log into the game and be bored for the first 30 minutes to an hour and a half that I play depending on how many roulettes I have to complete to accomplish my current objectives.

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To be frank, they can up difficultly without it being Savage level as even HM dungeons coddle players (take the two new ones where you can do a few massive pulls but healers can DPS most of the time). WC is the common example but probably the best: fairly easy, but there are STILL numerous problems because people still refuse to learn their class or basic mechanics. You don't need to push massive DPS, but having a basic understanding of your class shouldn't be met with "well, I play for fun only" etc. Difficulty is both by design and by what a player brings to the table.

U mean... the overall difficulty is too easy?
That's different to what I see.

More challenge is welcomed everywhere, but is it necessary to make people feel rough with a GAME because they don't "play hard"?
Please, some people play MMO just because they are too tired from work. A tired person, wants to get fun, is asked to pay full attention and effort...OMG.
To make the point clear: let the non-hardcore relax; let the hardcore gain more.
As far as ffxiv is concerned, people indeed quarrel too much in parties. For a long term I can't find another MMO stressful like that. "Bad players" usually means people impolite, disrespectful, breaking the rules; while in ffxiv, we'll probably add one: "careless playing"！
I know most MMO have something troublesome. But if one game troubles more, is it the players' fault?
I know players in a party should at least be responsible to others. But if the mechanics make them easily get exhausted, should they be blamed that seriously?

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Originally Posted by Frowny

To be frank, they can up difficultly without it being Savage level. WC is the common example but probably the best: fairly easy, but there are STILL numerous problems. Difficulty is both by design and by what a player brings to the table.

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Exactly. In fact, I'll cite PotD as an even better one. Floors 101+ aren't necessarily some massive challenge for your standard Tank, Healer 2 DPS. It simply demands you all pay attention and function as a group. If the tank attempts a massive pull, those mobs will beat you all into the ground. The healer usually has to keep an actual eye on HP because even smaller packs still hurt, plus you have patrols or random spawns to be mindful off. DPS have to focus down certain "killer mobs" who will eventually use some debilitating effect or inflict massive damage on the tank. All of this makes the flow of combat feel just a little more dynamic. If the devs used that as a basis and included a few more alternatives-- mobs potentially breaking aggro so tanks can't keep spamming enmity abilities being one such example-- I feel it would improve dungeons as a whole without making them overly difficult.

What I find interesting is people constantly citing how only few people raid or prefer easier content. It's no coincidence the devs put the current Anima step into Experts. My own experiences has been much slower queues on Expert Roulette before that change. As for raiding. If we use the unofficial census Lucky Bancho did. Between January and August nearly 300,000 characters were deemed inactive; leaving 500,000. Considering that time period came on the cusp of Savage killing statics. It suggests more people may attempt raiding than are given credit. Keep in mind, there is a sizable midcore playerbase too. People tend to jump from casual to hardcore. Raiders aren't just hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Between January and August nearly 300,000 characters were deemed inactive; leaving 500,000. Considering that time period came on the cusp of Savage killing statics. It suggests more people may attempt raiding than are given credit. Keep in mind, there is a sizable midcore playerbase too. People tend to jump from casual to hardcore. Raiders aren't just hardcore.

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So much of this. Myself and some friends are trying Savage for the first time because it is within our grasp but we're also not the tip of the spear. You can shift difficultly upwards a bit without going nuclear.

Your PoTD example is again dead on as... it basically asks you to play your class. Tanks need to be mindful of pulls, healers need to heal and DPS need to prioritize mobs. Nothing more than just playing your role.

I guess no one liked my idea D:

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

I guess no one liked my idea D:

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It isn't a bad idea, but SE can honestly raise the difficultly overall and it shouldn't be too much of an issue. Again, not Savage level but something that requires some competence. This is true for a lot of content, but ESPECIALLY end game. 1-59 I can understand the "training wheels", but once you hit 60 expectations should be a bit higher.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This is a fallacy. No one is asking for extremely difficult dungeons.

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Well actually, I would LOVE to have extremely difficult dungeons. It's frustrating that the only remotely challenging content comes in 8-person style. Don't have to remove the faceroll ones I guess, but some kind of challenge mode would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

You contradict yourself, you can't say don't run a dungeon if not over geared, and also say don't tell me how to play. And furthermore it's not an opinion that every fight in this game follows nearly the same exact formula, the only difference between the difficulty of each content level is the rate of how quickly the mechanics happen and the dps checks.

SE can make things as easy and hard as they want, recall A3s, that fight broke many raid groups, now recall Steps of Faith, that fight caused many players to scream and cry. Now look at the current raid and dungeons, players are burning through them with such ease it's remarkable. But weakening or strengthening content isn't the answer to issues SE has, they need to revamp their formula as a whole and find a constant, or develop fights that don't follow the current system that 98% of the entire game follows.

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That whole first part that you quoted was satire except for the one bold word. Did you even read the second part?

Instead of ilvl requirements for dungeons have dps requirements. You get to the dungeon entrance to attune yourself and you have 2 minutes to beat a monster that pops up. No outside help allowed.

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Originally Posted by Frowny

1-59 I can understand the "training wheels", but once you hit 60 expectations should be a bit higher.

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What's great is that in the 1-49 dungeons they slowly ramp the difficulty up an add more mechanics for you to learn but then they throw that all away for max level content. Compare any "expert" dungeon released nowadays to Aurum Vale or Dzemael Darkhold or the (pre-nerf) Vault.

This is a game and the goal is to win, but winning only feels good if it's actually possible to fail. No one likes it when your opponent lets you win at chess or whatever, so why is it different when it's a computer taking it super easy on you?

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

What's great is that in the 1-49 dungeons they slowly ramp the difficulty up an add more mechanics for you to learn but then they throw that all away for max level content. Compare any "expert" dungeon released nowadays to Aurum Vale or Dzemael Darkhold or the (pre-nerf) Vault.

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This is my thinking too. It's not that the game is "too easy", if the entire game set a precedent of being easy then I would respect it for what it is. The issue is that the levelling process conditions us to expect more. Levelling is exciting and getting through these dungeons takes actual thought and on the first time through it feels like endgame. The postgame dungeons however go completely against this, and in many cases are far easier than the levelling dungeons that are trying to teach the player on how to play endgame. What was the point of making levelling dungeons difficult if it is going to be scrapped once you reach 60?

I feel like the devs should follow this guide when designing content difficulty:

- Casual: Mechanic moderate-intensive for individual players, failure is felt by individuals (wipes are rare, but deaths can happen easily)
- Midcore: Mechanic intensive for the entire team, forgiving in the event of deaths
- Hardcore (raid): Mechanic intensive for the entire team, deaths are not recommended

Naturally this is a loose formula but it eliminates what makes current casual content so poor which is this philosophy:

- Casual: Mechanic light-moderate, failure is not felt and mechanics can be messed up/skipped easily.


Gear scaling also needs to be fixed, dungeons should be difficult on patch day and only become mild in difficult once players have a few pieces of gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

Since we get one story dungeon and one hm dungeon, Perhaps they should keep the story one the current faceroll difficulty and make the hm normal difficulty (oh the irony). It is an optional dungeon after all.

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They would really need to be in separate roulettes if that were the case.

Personally, I think we already have the "faceroll" roulette (level 60 roulette), where people are over-geared to the point that the mechanics are negligble. This seems like a perfect roulette for people who want an easy time, or for people who are catching up in gear. We then have an expert roulette which seems like the perfect opportunity for dungeons that could face a challenge, require more attention and reward a little bit more to compensate.

Unfortunately, the devs have taken the route that expert roulette is the faceroll roulette, and level 60 roueltte is the outdated content that no one plays roulette.