If you could make impovements to Deep dungeon...

I would like for soloing purpose, when I dc inside, not instant count as fail (dc when not fighting enemies)....

An item with random effect could be nice. With good effects, bad effects and misc effect.
Only one effect on the list can apply

Good Effect :
- All party gain atk +30% and damage taken -40%
- Expérience point double for the current floor
- Change all the party into a random monster
- Every monster in the current floor change into monster lvl 1.

Bad Effect :
- One monster is changed into a manticore (It can kill a player with a single shot)
- Traps are boost to Floor Traps for the current floor (if someone take a trap, every player in the floor will take the effect).
- All monster gain atk +30% and damage taken -40% on the current floor
- Apply paralysis on all party for the currect floor

Misc Effect :
- All traps are changed in chest and all chest are changed in trap
- Teleport the party on the previous floor, or on the next floor
- Open a gate that summon a monster every 10 seconds. (the gate can be kill to stop the monster's summoning.

The flavour of the month with the development team - rng. A mechanic typical in Asian mmo's as a substitute for actual calculated abilities and rewards.
Never viewed this game as moving in that direction, yet here we are.

"You not get upgrade - unlucky!" "Me got upgrade, me lucky!" - a typical ftp eastern import scenario. But needs urgently removing from this game.
It didn't start with PotD, these instances just continue down the sad road of the ftp rng experience.

For something promoted as a great feature - this is severely lacking in some areas.

1. The ui of the dungeon and character screen looks like it was done by the first day apprentice - get this reworked into a quality layout. One you can scale in size.
1. Get rid of the blasted rng - it is a ruination of effort v reward and contradicts completely with structured progress.
3. Get this in the Duty Finder so we can have proper groups in the later levels - It's not good enough just to have pre-made parties, people log in at different times. All that's happening at present is group arrives in dungeon - sees three healers - people wipe it. Re-queue, same again, and again.
4. And for goodness sake, change this having to run through from lvl 1 over and over. What is this? What is it meant to promote with the player?
Interest? - no, flies out the window after the first run.
Motivation? - see 'interest' above.

As it stands this is a boring, poor quality content drudge through 'different each time' - yet somehow not that different at all - dull runs of increasing depression.

I know there are further levels on the way, but you have to get the foundations right before you build on them.

Rework before anything further is added. In some areas unfortunately, it's back to the drawing board.
Adding more rng levels, viewed via a clunky ui, and grouping via another case of randomness - is not the way to go with this.

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Originally Posted by Miluen

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Some of these seem OP, that manticore one though... the forums would explode with complaints

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

The flavour of the month with the development team - rng. A mechanic typical in Asian mmo's as a substitute for actual calculated abilities and rewards.
Never viewed this game as moving in that direction, yet here we are.

"You not get upgrade - unlucky!" "Me got upgrade, me lucky!" - typical ftp eastern import scenario

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What? This is a dungeon type based on rougelike games. The "upgrades" only matter inside of this dungeon, and are randomized to encourage players to replay the same levels more than once. Sure it's used in FTP models, but you're way off base if you think that's where they got the idea.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

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I agree with the ideas of the level design stuff like the bombs blowing up walls or little minigames, but I'm actually all for solo or any role decision. It opens more players to actually play the mode, helps que times, and tests your ability for improvisation during certain situations. If you just had a normal group composition, the dungeon would be (once again), a simple pull+burn+continue dungeon. In fact the mode is already redundant at this point. Kill enemies, get to the next floor, kill some more, next floor. The group composition will just be adding more of the same that we already experienced. Everything else I'm cool with but two things:

The 4 man floor switch thing. whats the point in being able to solo if thats a thing?

Unavoidable attacks. Solo would also still not be a thing (or any less for that matter). Your asking for a normal group composition 4 man innovative dungeon, I'm all for it but Deep Dungeon shouldn't be limited to such things. It'd basically would drag it down to a even more "Eh" status.

Note: I like the mode, and I'd like to see more modes as ballsy as this.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

What? This is a dungeon type based on rougelike games. The "upgrades" only matter inside of this dungeon, and are randomized to encourage players to replay the same levels more than once. Sure it's used in FTP models, but you're way off base if you think that's where they got the idea.

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There's upgrades actually go towards getting your 235 weapon. You need 30 in each in order to get it. So, it does have an effect outside of the dungeon.

Because of issues with level 50 people dropping or killing the party...

At level 49 have an option to op out but keep Aetherpool upgrades.
I personally am doing it for lore/eso and other items. right now. Lore would always make it worth it to me. However some just want the weapon. and inturn don't want to grind 1-40 again and again.. So an op out would be good for them.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

What? This is a dungeon type based on rougelike games. The "upgrades" only matter inside of this dungeon, and are randomized to encourage players to replay the same levels more than once. Sure it's used in FTP models, but you're way off base if you think that's where they got the idea.

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I never said they got the idea - it's that this mechanism is here at all. I couldn't care less what it's based on, it's complete drivel.
It's not fun, it's an extremely poor mechanism for blatantly slowing progress for some and not others. How can this be good for people who find themselves having to run it over and over and getting very little?
Does it motivate them? No
It does the complete opposite.
That's the bottom line of rng - and why it needs removing from PotD.

I would really like a variety of objectives to unlock the passage to the next floor. Something like finding hidden switches or activating lamps (what?). Killing monsters over and over and over for 50 floors is really repetitive, let alone the rumored eventual 200. We already have to do this in regular dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

There's upgrades actually go towards getting your 235 weapon. You need 30 in each in order to get it. So, it does have an effect outside of the dungeon.

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But the effect of the ilevel 230 weapon is very small, because the are no "must have" with no alternatives

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

I never said they got the idea - it's that this mechanism is here at all. I couldn't care less what it's based on, it's complete drivel.
It's not fun, it's an extremely poor mechanism for blatantly slowing progress for some and not others. How can this be good for people who find themselves having to run it over and over and getting very little?
Does it motivate them? No

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And still players buy rogue like dungeon crawler games, so not "free 2 play"
example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vrFsWkqk8s 40 Eur

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That's the bottom line of rng - and why it needs removing from PotD.

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Next fix the lv50 boss give you guranteed upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

There's upgrades actually go towards getting your 235 weapon. You need 30 in each in order to get it. So, it does have an effect outside of the dungeon.

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That's cute and all, but off patch upgrades are only relevant for the remainder of the patch. ;D This "effect" will be moot on the first day of the next patch.

The ability to apply the glow effect to any weapon you have. Would make the boring runs worth it. Instead of giving us a re-skin of a lvl 90 weapon.

Make the dungeons have puzzles like platform jumping, physical traps that have a pattern to them. Like spikes shooting from the ground or a moving laser wall that moves back and forward. A giant rock rolling around the map that can squish players would make things intresting.

I hope they don't make floors 51-200 the same thing as 1-50 and the only difference it that the adds hit harder.

it seems like they didn't try with this dungeon thing. Saying that its suppose to be easy doesn't excuse the fact that they didn't add anything fun. like traps or puzzles to the floors. They got lazy and just put markers on the floor for the traps and a butt load of adds. We'd rather not waste money on anything creative and just use what we have to make money off of you while you farm the same 50 floors 16 times for that mount and 2 minions.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

- A sahagin that can breathe underwater - transform, dive, flip a switch or something, room area drains and we can progress.
- An amaljaa that can light magical torches to help light the way in a dark room.
- A sylph that can do whatever sylphs do because I hate the little buggers and never leveled their quests. :)
- A kobold that can fix a broken switch or otherwise use some mechanical ingenuity to disarm a trap or something.

Quests that aren't so hard that you can't pass them but still fun in how you can use the features.

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If you are looking at elemental specific puzzles, the cloister of trials are a good inspiration for this (as much as i hated them). Each temple was aspected to it's aeon and it's puzzles reflected that (i.e sylphs are good for electric puzzles, and kobolds would definitely utilize bombs and explosives)

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

We'd rather not waste money on anything creative and just use what we have to make money off of you while you farm the same 50 floors 16 times for that mount and 2 minions.

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But farming the same dungeons every day for more than a month for currency gear, the same raid every few days for months for gear, or farming the same trials hundreds of times for mounts isn't a huge time wasting grind? Even if the feature is lackluster (which I give people that), it's still just a dungeon + type of thing.

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Originally Posted by Felis

But the effect of the ilevel 230 weapon is very small, because the are no "must have" with no alternatives

And still players buy rogue like dungeon crawler games, so not "free 2 play"
example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vrFsWkqk8s 40 Eur


Next fix the lv50 boss give you guranteed upgrades.

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If you are successful get a guaranteed reward. If you are not, then no reward.
What's the problem with that?
Oh I know, it wouldn't artificially hamper player's time and effort as a cover for shallow and poorly presented content.

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Originally Posted by Luxpheras

We're continuing to gather your feedback and pass it along to the team so please continue exploring the depths of this dungeon, and share any additional feedback you may have.

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You really don't need to improve the rate for lower floors. People upgrade pretty quickly on those. The upper floors need to be adjusted, or AT LEAST allow one silver chest every floor. I did a run where we got one silver chest for the set. I love the guaranteed upgrading on the last boss, but I think you should also give a possibly for upgrading after the defeat of each boss, like you do with minion drops.

http://weknowmemes.com/generator/upl...7149188433.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kerii

But farming the same dungeons every day for more than a month for currency gear, the same raid every few days for months for gear, or farming the same trials hundreds of times for mounts isn't a huge time wasting grind? Even if the feature is lackluster (which I give people that), it's still just a dungeon + type of thing.

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Saying "because its the norm" dosent excuse the fact that it has to be that way. Just one, add just one puzzle to a room and it makes a difference (Some MMO's have 2 puzzles/machanics per dungeon). When I play a MMO I want to say "I cant wait to run these dungeons" and not "I have to run these dungeons".

heck add the chain pulling that Halatali NM/HM had or the the Spike ball that drops from the ceiling. Why no use the spikes from Qarn HM?

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

heck add the chain pulling that Halatali NM/HM had or the the Spike ball that drops from the ceiling. Why no use the spikes from Qarn HM?

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I like things like this, especially the block enemy from Qarn NM, though there are issues with hit detection on those imo, also the vines from Amdapor HM that act like the chains from Halatali.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Saying "because its the norm" dosent excuse the fact that it has to be that way. Just one, add just one puzzle to a room and it makes a difference (Some MMO's have 2 puzzles/machanics per dungeon). When I play a MMO I want to say "I cant wait to run these dungeons" and not "I have to run these dungeons".

heck add the chain pulling that Halatali NM/HM had or the the Spike ball that drops from the ceiling. Why no use the spikes from Qarn HM?

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I didn't disagree with you on that point, only what I quoted. No matter how much fluff we have to make it more interesting it is still just going to be a grind.

1. I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but something like a daily roulette for random 10 floors that yields some sort of upgrade-related reward could be a thing too. Not that huge of a game changer, but a nice little addition for people who have reached a certain amount of floors. Requirement for using the roulette could be the lowest weapon/armor upgrades needed to join floor 41+, or something entirely different. You get the idea ^_^.

2. Some pomanders could be blacked out and made unusable after being triggered, to prevent more than one activation per floor. This is usefull for buff pomanders that would have no additional effect when used twice in a row. The map-revealing one for example.

3. The trap-removing pomander could use an item effect icon too, so party members can check if someone has already used one on the current floor.

4. Also because it cannot be stressed enough: make future floors less combat heavy, more puzzle or action based. To keep those rooms in line with the idea of leveling up quickly, they could yield experience upon being cleared once(you could even be REALLY mean, and have chests spawn on locations that are super risky or difficult to reach. Make us EARN those upgrades by showing skill, rather than luck!). Just don't give us more of the same thing we already have abundantly(combat focused content). How about a "create your dungeon" event for collecting ideas directly from the community? ^_^

Instead of 50 small floors I would like to change it to 5 MASSIVE maze like floors.

Bubble Bobble theme music :p

but, in all seriousness, it would be nice if we could set the pomander items to the hotbar.

I'm still stuck on 11-20 cuz of those muthafrackin slimes.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

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I like a lot of these ideas. I'm not someone who pushes for this game to be like XI, but I think the dev team should take a closer look at Nyzul Isle. Having different objectives and such on each floor really shook up the boring "kill # mobs, go to exit" theme, and running into Notorious Monsters added a nice risk/reward too. They could add random hunt mobs (smaller versions, of course) that have a high chance of dropping silver chests or potsherds.

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I like a lot of these ideas. I'm not someone who pushes for this game to be like XI, but I think the dev team should take a closer look at Nyzul Isle. Having different objectives and such on each floor really shook up the boring "kill # mobs, go to exit" theme,

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If you point them at Nyzul and they decide to use that as their template, that means that we're going to get lamp floors.

Based solely on that I have to vehemently disagree with your suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If you point them at Nyzul and they decide to use that as their template, that means that we're going to get lamp floors.

Based solely on that I have to vehemently disagree with your suggestion.

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But lamp floors were the best!

Seeing as every run you see people use pomander at dumb times, like when the things already active, or a fortune buff just before you move to the new floor, I think pomanders should be made to not be group items but personal items. also people bitching about who uses the rage one seems to happen quite a bit lol

An ever changing floor that the walls shift, possibly killing you if you do not move out of the way. If you have ever seen the movie maze runner.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Seeing as every run you see people use pomander at dumb times, like when the things already active, or a fortune buff just before you move to the new floor, I think pomanders should be made to not be group items but personal items. also people bitching about who uses the rage one seems to happen quite a bit lol

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That would be nice, though I'd also be happy with the language being changed (in EN) to reflect the actual gameplay. "Everyone in your party receives a Pomander of (X)" is NOT what happens, and it was very confusing until I realized that in fact, the items are party-wide.

I was expecting Nyzul Isle and was let down. I have a few suggestions.

- 90 minutes instead of 60.
- Aetherpool arm and armor unsynced.
- Farming whichever floor you want. Example: Being able to select floor 41 and go from there without having to start back over.
- Level sync instead of starting all over.
- Progress saves after every 5 floors.
- Get rid of landmines, chests that explode and slimes one hit kill. This has duty failed me because of the players.. One person kited the slime back to the group waiting in the passage and we wiped.
- Change text when receiving the items. It makes it seem like each player gets it and that's not the case.
- A pop up when someone wants to use an item and the rest of the party can vote. Players use items just to use them.
- Silver chests are so rare they should give an upgrade each time. Or at least a higher chance because even at higher floors I don't get any upgrades.

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Originally Posted by Kislyn

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Whats the point of 90 minutes if it saves every 5 floors?

Whats the point of it being a rougelike meant for new, old, and returning if you make it a level sync with gear unsync'd AND being able to select a floor to start on?

Also, witching pomanders would get the party killed since they have to wait on the party to vote to decide if its ok for the oh shit button to be used to prevent the party from wiping.

You would see level 60s spamming 45-50, skipping mobs, completing the run in 15 min over and over again upgrading their gear in less than a day and then mostly abandoning the content since they would already have the mount, minions, and can speed run for potsherds for melding their gear if they feel like it.

I just went through my first 41-50 with no upgrades & man is that depressing....3-5 hours of dungeoning for nothing. I think I'm done for the day....aka plz make silver spawns higher or guaranteed once every 10 floors please. I have to go cry now.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

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They're suggestions, not all have to be chosen at once. Also, witch poms don't need to be voted to use unless your team is a strict set group, in which case I don't think anyone has that problem. If I see a mob chasing my party member I pop the witch pom to prevent a wipe, not vote to see when to use it while getting the crap beaten out of us.

I have a couple ideas
Special Mobs - Kill for *insert literally anything here* gil, a guaranteed random pomander, +1 to aetherpool, party effects (damage up, defense up,a meh haste)
if it's not killed in a certain amount of time it debuffs the whole party (mass pox?)

clear special conditions?: "kill all enemies in 5 minutes" for an instant teleport and a guaranteed aetherpool
"there's a magic disruption somewhere on this floor, changing all PCs into monsters! find the disruption!" (with a crystal in a random room that needs to be destroyed)

changing floor atmospheres - change the color of the dungeons PER FLOOR, maybe certain mobs thrive in a certain colored atmosphere?
-e.g Living Whelks thrive more in caves, so how about if the cave is more of a cool color, there's more Living Whelks?
-like, maybe I started in a cave, but maybe the next floor we found different ruins, and continue from there

part1????????

increase time in dungeons by atleast 10 more minutes
a bit more breathing room for people in parties, while also keeping it a little bit tight


make soloing easier, it's not a "challenge" if I just run on the wall to avoid enemies, lower their attack and health, but keep the same amount of mobs, people would feel more confident in their ability compared to just avoid the "challenge"

random npc events? - find a random npc, help them, gg

DYE THE WEAPONS, just need to make them specific dyes (1 red, 1 blue, 1 green, etc)

keep having to restart after you finish 50
yes it sounds daunting, but it's better than being able farm specific floors, that ruins the whole climb and triumph of it all

uhhh, my head hurts, but I'll explain everything more tomorrow with pics for examples

I agree with a lot of what people have said. I think if you are solo/duo etc then the timer should be longer. It is annoying getting a silver chest only for it to give nothing..i am loving the challenge aspect duo and solo but i do wish you could save where you are up too it seems a bit harsh when you die on the boss or the floor before.

I have not tried in a party yet but i imagine it would be a lot easier.

I also feel its a bit deflating when you beat the floor boss and you don't get a chest >.> that would be a nice addition...armor would have been nice too just special pieces from there.

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Originally Posted by Kislyn

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TankHunter pretty much said most of what I wanted to say, save for the Landmine, explosive chests and the Palace Slimes. Taking those away removes risk (be careful with your pulls), which this game severely lacks. I'm also somewhat fine with chests exploding, though when they don't and it's a silver chest, it needs to guarantee a +1 or more (when it's not synced). Getting a +0 in the 41-49 floors is Atma levels of stupid. Palace Slime is a player issue and should stay the way it is. If you notice the Slime isn't dying fast enough, run away from it.

Get rid of the flight item, or at least give a confirmation to vote on before it goes off. So counterproductive.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Get rid of timer for solo.

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What? So you could grind out lv 60 early, max out chests and do it on easy mode? Never gonna happen.