Problem: The Mentor requirements cater to players who have no business being Mentors.

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Originally Posted by M0xie

You can't turn it off when you want. The only way to get rid of it is to talk to the Smith and leave the system, after which you must wait 30 days to rejoin.

I really think the people who are enabling Mentoring and just "wearing the crown" will tire of it and turn it off; just give it time, people. Once the sparkly newness of it has worn off, you'll have more players with good intentions of helping others as the remainder.

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Really? You can't turn it off? That's just stupid.

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Originally Posted by M0xie

You can't turn it off when you want. The only way to get rid of it is to talk to the Smith and leave the system, after which you must wait 30 days to rejoin.

I really think the people who are enabling Mentoring and just "wearing the crown" will tire of it and turn it off; just give it time, people. Once the sparkly newness of it has worn off, you'll have more players with good intentions of helping others as the remainder.

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You can turn it off and on as you wish. Goto the player search for your character and then Edit Search Info. Where you set yourself to AFK, Busy, etc you can set yourself to Online without the Mentor tag.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

You can turn it off and on as you wish. Goto the player search for your character and then Edit Search Info. Where you set yourself to AFK, Busy, etc you can set yourself to Online without the Mentor tag.

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I tried this, I chose the other options via the drop-down and it never changed. I have found that /busy or /afk text commands work, however.

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

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You seem to think that there is some magic formula that can be used to ensure good mentors. Regardless of what criteria is used some people, in this case you, are going to feel left out. As for the unfortunate bad incidents being reported about mentors... all I gotta say is dicks will be dicks. No amount of filtering will weed them all out.

The requirements are obviously not that strict. If mentoring is that important to you, complete the requirements and start mentoring away. Good luck getting into the mentor/newbie chatroom though. It's usually full.

didn't read every post inbetween (page 1 & this page really) but I can agree the "requirements" are easy/small but to put it as plainly as I can "what is required does not matter, you can make it as strict as a firewall made by a team of hackers or make it as simple as sign here, nothing is safe from abuse as long as something with emotion can use it" now what I typed there can be interprited different & I hope it at lest gets understood they way I ment but my meaning is simple (won't go into detail as it would end up a long speal on Good-vs-Evil & some other crap which I & I believe "we" don't want/have the time to hear)

all that said SE may up the "requirements" if you/we can actually convice them but till then "trolls will always be trolls until the day they stop being trolls"

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Originally Posted by M0xie

I tried this, I chose the other options via the drop-down and it never changed. I have found that /busy or /afk text commands work, however.

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It definitely works. I only use the crown on the very rare occasion that I actually make it into the network with the chat channel or if I'm running low level content. If you mean it doesn't take you out of the network or something, that's just a flaw in the system right now.

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Meanwhile, I don't qualify as a mentor despite actively helping newcomers every day.

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So where's the problem here? You're missing out on a roulette with annoying fights and an achievement? It's not like you're guaranteed a spot in the novice network so why does becoming a mentor matter to you if you're already doing things mentors are expected to do.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

It definitely works. I only use the crown on the very rare occasion that I actually make it into the network with the chat channel or if I'm running low level content. If you mean it doesn't take you out of the network or something, that's just a flaw in the system right now.

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Okiedokie I'll try it again. I must have derp. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Alberel

You mean to say a newbie won't be able to tell if they've had questions answered, problems solved and advice given? You seem to be under the impression that most newbies are brain dead...

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They won't know if they're given crap advice, unless they verify it with an alternative source. But the conundrum here is that if they are proactive enough to seek such verification, then they usually aren't the type to need mentoring in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Well this is something you'll get either way. At least a system like this would ensure you only have people that are TRYING to help as opposed to the current horde of people that have no intention of actually helping anyone. The point is we need a system that prioritizes helpful players in the channel. I'd rather a couple of players giving poor advice slipped through the net than have all the sprouts abandon the channel because it's entirely unhelpful to them.

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Trying to do something isn't the same as being good at doing said thing.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Wait, you people are bringing Qualifications and comparing this to real life?

Who would the guy hire, the guy with 3 qualifications or 6? 3 of course.

The boss can get away hiring the guy to do the same job for half the way! Ever heard of being "overqualified" for a Job? Happens a LOT!

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Right.. But if the pay is the same... Aka our mentor system... Are you still hiring the person with less

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Right.. But if the pay is the same... Aka our mentor system... Are you still hiring the person with less

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You're really hanging onto this analogy. Once again, this is not real life. This is not a job interview. Simply having a crown by your name does not mean you are more qualified or knowledgeable, just means you leveled more jobs.

I get the feeling the majority of people just use the crown just as a kind of status symbol. I just turned the cown off just because it feels too much as boasting.

Also in 3 days of playing i've been able to enter the network once. And when i finally did get in I saw the numbers god 100 mentors against 40 sprouts?????
The only thing I could hear before i left again was a few people bitching in german about a french player.
Also whats the point of having 1 network on your server if you have 3 main languages?

Second how the hell are you going to explain something to someone with that many people active and talking?

3rd please split up the people seeking advice/mentoring about combat jobs and crafting/gathering.

Did a mentoring roulette just to see what it was and got thordan hard, nobody said anything and it was cleared promtly. Whats the point to the roulette?

This all makes me think that the mentoring system as it is designed now is pretty useless and a waste of resources.

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Originally Posted by jssanderson747

So where's the problem here? You're missing out on a roulette with annoying fights and an achievement? It's not like you're guaranteed a spot in the novice network so why does becoming a mentor matter to you if you're already doing things mentors are expected to do.

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If good teachers are left out of the mentor network and rude and unhelpful people get in, the filter is flawed. The OP isn't whining about his personal situation but criticizing how mentors are chosen in general. Those are two different things. When a filter lets in good and bad helpers with the seemingly same ratio as they exist in the player population, it is no better than randomly selecting who gets a crown. Instead of picking suitable and willing mentors it picks whoever puts in time for a status thing, turning the whole system into yet another cosmetic (and soon actual) reward behind a grind. That's the problem.

Removing all rewards and requiring written applications would help make the system more about newbies and less about people who want shinies and status. It would be a lot of work for GM's but at least there wouldn't be a hundredfold number of mentors compared to newbs, chat clutter and jerks with crowns. Another criteria which I believe could help would be raising the commendation requirement to 1000 or 3000.

By Merriam-Webster

mentor: someone who teaches or gives help and advice to a less experienced and often younger person

beginner: a person who is beginning something or doing something for the first time

If you do not fall into these categories one would think you should not use the Mentor system. Purge all rewards and incentives to the system and see how many people would actually try to help others. Thoughts like this remind me of how far we have to go as a species.

3 role requirement exists for a reason beyond "play the class to know the class".

It exists so that newbies you are helping can play whatever roles they want, and you can fill in with them on whatever roles they need. If you've got two dps and a healer newbie who want someone to help them in dungeons, there isn't much you can help with if you don't have a tank.

This is coming from someone who more than once helped a team of three newbies through 1-50 dungeons and trials. Twice as tank, one as healer.

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Originally Posted by Khanscott

Thoughts like this remind me of how far we have to go as a species.

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If your idea of a perfect species is one that doesn't crave funny looking hats, then I don't want to be a part of your species.

So far all I've been seeing are mentors who don't know how to play the game and was shouting incorrect things in instances. Like mentors telling people to stack for spread attacks and leaving first. Also being in Gilgamesh, Idllyshire, a toxic cesspool or whatever it is called these days, is crawling with "mentors". Actually no. Gilgamesh is simply crawling with "mentors".


PS: OP, don't make threads like these. They don't work on this forum :)
http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1347612175l/7641382.jpg

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

You're really hanging onto this analogy. Once again, this is not real life. This is not a job interview. Simply having a crown by your name does not mean you are more qualified or knowledgeable, just means you leveled more jobs.

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100 ppl that meet reqs
100 ppl that don't

I'm not saying that ppl that are in the latter group can't be good mentors
I'm saying that a higher % of ppl in the former group are better mentors that the latter group.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Removing all rewards and requiring written applications would help make the system more about newbies and less about people who want shinies and status. It would be a lot of work for GM's but at least there wouldn't be a hundredfold number of mentors compared to newbs, chat clutter and jerks with crowns. Another criteria which I believe could help would be raising the commendation requirement to 1000 or 3000.

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This thread is about someone who feels they should be a mentor but dont want to raise a tank and also doesnt have 1000 dungeons done.

If that alone is stopping good teachers as you put it then having a commendation requirement of 3000 would mean almost no mentors. Also written applications wouldn't be suitable at all due to how many they would receive.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

100 ppl that meet reqs
100 ppl that don't

I'm not saying that ppl that are in the latter group can't be good mentors
I'm saying that a higher % of ppl in the former group are better mentors that the latter group.

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How? They are Athletes, Athletes may be good as players themselves, but that doesn't mean they are good at teaching.

Teacher System:
Lower your stats and level to the characters level, help them out doing quests.

SIMPLE. EFFECTIVE.

The only problem I see with Mentorship, such as it is, is that a significant portion of the people flagging themselves (not all by any means but a good many) are only doing so as an ego thing. "Look, I have a crown, I have done many things, I know how this works so listen to me or GTFO of my raid. I am the greatest". They want to be impressive, they don't want to actually help people which is the point of this feature.

Now, yes, some mentors are actually mentors and I have total respect for them.

I've seen it floated around that once flagged your mentorship could become tiered based on a system like player commendations. That way people would be encouraged to be helpful instead of bursting rage all over the new players.

I just like the crown. Siren Senpai chat is dead. Has its occasional expulsions of "hellos" and "can anyone craft this for me?" but overall a ghost town.

Just a bit of observation of mentors I've come across...
Rude, unhelpful, know-it-all (when really they don't).. and alltogether, I have had nothing but bad experiences with people that have the mentor status..

I'm sure there are some that are in it to help people, but there are a ton that arent.. and I think the negative outway the positive for this particular thing.. I think its sad that sprouts are practially forced into the mentor chat, without even an option to leave unless they are kicked.. and I think its sad, that alot of sprouts are thrown into a chat of mentors, without even a chance to enjoy the game, quietly, at their own pace.

I wish the specifications had been modified, and I wish there was no reward, or icon status for signing up to be a mentor.. Because then, the truly helpful people would come forward without the need for gratification and status.

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Originally Posted by Takfloyd

How many new players does this apply to? It's not in any way even remotely comparable to the number of mentors currently abusing the system. 99.99% of new players would never think to do something like that, and those few who do can be easily reported.

As for buying mentor commendations or using alts, no one would go to such lengths when they can just be a good mentor and not have to worry about it. You may as well say that regular commendations shouldn't exist because they can also be sold.

In short, I think you're the one who didn't think it through enough.

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Wrong. That was just an example. Whiteroom is exactly right, there's always a way to abuse a system. Besides how would you expect bad reviews to be verified. And most, if not all, mentors would earn high amounts of positive ratings over negative ones. It would take real effort to identify oneself to sprouts as being a bad mentor and for those occasions a general report would be more effective than a single bad rating amidst a multitude of good ones. Even a simple run that was just done OK would earn a positive rating over a bad one, unless you propose a "meh" rating choice.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Basically what it sounds like to me is that OP helps people so he thinks he deserves the crown more than other people that have the crown.

I think people are taking this mentor business a little too seriously.

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He does. The mentor system does not evaluate your kindness or desire to help other players. Most players just do it for the icon or the power. The mentor system was designed to trust players with that power to connect with new players and look what happens? Spamming, botting, kick abuse, and zero tolerance for new players. Why even have a mentor system at all if these are the people who will be the first thing our new players see when they arrive at Erozea? There needs to be a change or a new feature that separates the players who want to help and who want to bloody crown for looks.

I think the requirements are way too low. A DoW/M mentor should have all the classes/jobs to 60 and all the job quests done, more than 1500 commendations, should have cleared at least 10 times every instance can come out from the DR Mentor and should be bound to do at least one DR Mentor weekly or 5 monthly to not loose the status other than having a clean "criminal record".

If you love helping people, then I suggest not getting the mentor crown at all. Most people just attack mentors for being useless and horrible people because of pervious experiences with other mentors. If they lowered the requirement's and you got/wore the crown, everyone else would look at you like an entitled elitists to. Trust me. It's not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

If you love helping people, then I suggest not getting the mentor crown at all. Most people just attack mentors for being useless and horrible people because of pervious experiences with other mentors. If they lowered the requirement's and you got/wore the crown, everyone else would look at you like an entitled elitists to. Trust me. It's not worth it.

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That is the issue I am seeing. You are not wrong, but I mostly like it so I have direct contact with the new players. I don't want them to be doomed with mentors who cannot see the good of new players or potential.

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Originally Posted by Greven

I think the requirements are way too low. A DoW/M mentor should have all the classes/jobs to 60 and all the job quests done, more than 1500 commendations, should have cleared at least 10 times every instance can come out from the DR Mentor and should be bound to do at least one DR Mentor weekly or 5 monthly to not loose the status other than having a clean "criminal record".

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if you want more than 1500 recommendations, that means that you don't want that person to ever use any DPS class in duty finder and you forgot about gathering and crafting mentors.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

if you want more than 1500 recommendations, that means that you don't want that person to ever use any DPS class in duty finder and you forgot about gathering and crafting mentors.

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Why? I do all of that and have close to 3000 comms.

Tbh, the amount of mentors running around shows that, if anything they should be more strict.

But, I think there could have been a radomized short quiz to show some level of difficulty before becomming one. I do notice while healing that a lot of the time, the people making totally basic mistakes are mentors.

1500 may be a bit high, but it is something everyone who has played long enough can get, and if you don't know how to dodge AOEs, or even that you should, by then... well being a good mentor is the least of your problems.

But haven't the Novice networks been invaded by bot now, making it fairly worthless.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Why? I do all of that and have close to 3000 comms.

Tbh, the amount of mentors running around shows that, if anything they should be more strict.

But, I think there could have been a radomized short quiz to show some level of difficulty before becomming one. I do notice while healing that a lot of the time, the people making totally basic mistakes are mentors.

1500 may be a bit high, but it is something everyone who has played long enough can get, and if you don't know how to dodge AOEs, or even that you should, by then... well being a good mentor is the least of your problems.

But haven't the Novice networks been invaded by bot now, making it fairly worthless.

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You seriously have not noticed that even if you play well as a dps you wil not get a recommendation, maybe for good glamour but thats it, healers and tanks get automatic recommendation as a thanks for letting dps in the dungeon though.

All jobs to 60 is too harsh...Everyone has that one job they just can't stand and not being able to become a mentor because they can't stand it is unfair. Also 1500 comm is no good because gaining that amount in less than a year would take a lot of luck, and luck should not be a deciding factor for mentor status. 300 is reasonable. As for all crafting/gathering to 60, same reason as the fighting classes.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

You seriously have not noticed that even if you play well as a dps you wil not get a recommendation, maybe for good glamour but thats it, healers and tanks get automatic recommendation as a thanks for letting dps in the dungeon though.

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I don't know about you, but I get way more commendations as a BLM than I ever do as an AST.
Edit: I also tend to commentate DPS more than tanks or healers.

Coms should have nothing to do with mentor, tanks and healers alone, just for existing
O.o in the game get way too many coms whether they are good at their jobs or not lol, its the absolute worst way to scale any ones helpfulness.

Take the crown away imo, We have the channel, don't need the icon beside any ones name, that would weed out the ego only mentors.

I for one don't enter the chat much anymore / use the icon, as most chat was not directed to the new players anyway. Now I have seen some very nice personalities in our mentor chat, I think there are quite a few good natured people for sure, but it is more like a global nostalgia channel then a mentor chat channel.

It was a good try on se part to help new players and I'm certain it has helped a few. Nothing can replace just randomly offering some help to anyone that appears lost though, crown or no crown.

And to remember some new players want the help, some do not.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

You seriously have not noticed that even if you play well as a dps you wil not get a recommendation, maybe for good glamour but thats it, healers and tanks get automatic recommendation as a thanks for letting dps in the dungeon though.

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Maybe you don't, but that could mean something, I get a good amount of comms when dpsing, and dps get my comms for doing the mechanics properly and dodging. Couple that with the requirements of having a tank and heal to 60 and you should already have way more than the current minimum requirements.

Point being you already have 100 mentors to each Greenleaf. lol, they even had to expand the criteria for greenleaf...

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

Take the crown away imo, We have the channel, don't need the icon beside any ones name, that would weed out the ego only mentors.

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I agree with this, the crown is a stupid ego boost to people that need epeen stroking. But at the same time, it is helpful to have a symbol for greenleafs to recognize in the field. Something other than a symbol of a king would be better.

I disagree that Comms are a useless. I agree they may not be the best. What they can do, is show that you have run lots of content, and run it outside of premades, they just set the bar so low on it that it is useless. Set it to 1000 and you will still likely have 50 mentors for every leaf.

But like I said, a short, randomized quiz that proves some kind of competency would be best. Something that asks what X action does, or stances.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

Maybe it has something to do with your bikini blackmage glamour?

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Of course! other dps only get comms by showing skin, it is no fault of your own! Damn them all!

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Veil

I don't know about you, but I get way more commendations as a BLM than I ever do as an AST.
Edit: I also tend to commentate DPS more than tanks or healers.

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Maybe it has something to do with your bikini blackmage glamour?

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

Maybe it has something to do with your bikini blackmage glamour?

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Nice assumption. I use the Miden caster set. :D

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

You seriously have not noticed that even if you play well as a dps you wil not get a recommendation, maybe for good glamour but thats it, healers and tanks get automatic recommendation as a thanks for letting dps in the dungeon though.

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When I am tanking and healer couldn't keep me alive even with my proper cooldowns, I give my recommendation to dps or dps who saves the run :)

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

When I am tanking and healer couldn't keep me alive even with my proper cooldowns, I give my recommendation to dps or dps who saves the run :)

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but you only do that if the healer is that bad or a new healer and you decided to do a speedrun and pulled the entire dungeon?

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

but you only do that if the healer is that bad or a new healer and you decided to do a speedrun and pulled the entire dungeon?

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Before I do large pulls or speed runs, I always ask healers if they can heal through the damage I recieve. If they say ok I'll start, if they say ok but couldn't keep me alive, I can't leave my back to that healer :d

I actually find that DPS tend to get more commendations lately because everyone is of the mindset that "Healers and tanks get commendations all the time for being tanks or healers. Obvious roles that're expected to do their job". Where as the mentality is, "If I'm a DPS, I commendate the other DPS, cause I'm pretty sure the tank and healer will commendate each other." when they actually also commendated a DPS for the previous statement! Very little anymore is it, "That was an excellent use of a limit break! Take my commendation!" or "The healer kept me alive during big pulls. Take my commendation!" I've even seen people give commendations out to players who sucked at their class, simply because they have an appealing glamour. I've also seen other players give commendations out to the new players simply because, "Thank you new player bonus! I needed ESOs and POE for my relic weapon!". And truthfully, most of the times, people just don't give commendations out to anyone anymore. Either for being too lazy, or the right to earn one from them is set too high.

Point is, commendations is a horrible requirement in general; and very little is the commendations given out for outstanding performances. You more likely got a commendation for simply being a Black mage, because that makes speed runs more doable. If you ran with the same group of people, but went Monk instead, they may have given the commendation to another player instead, simply because of class utility.

Also, unrelated. I love how people with the crown are expected to be mentoring 24/7. Or rather, if you don't feel like mentoring today, people expect you to disable the crown. I know at least on my server, there is no legit new players as sprouts because the server is always locked. Nearly all of the sprouts on Balmung are alts, (most often for RP) or bots. So all of the mentors just use it as a general chat network instead.