Please remove gathering from easy and Normal Diadem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

A way to fix it: relic quest keyitems in the diadem gathering nodes.

---

OH NO PLEASE NO. JUST NO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

A way to fix it: relic quest keyitems in the diadem gathering nodes. If everyone is on gatherer then there is no problem.

---

Please no. I have zero interest in leveling a gathering class. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avidria

Post #69

---

Oh, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying there is no issue. I'm well aware of what you describe. I've done both battle and gathering when I've gone. All I'm saying is the OP calling gatherers disrespectful and inconsiderate of other peoples' time is ridiculous, except in cases where they joined a party that specifically said no gathering. I think SE intended for people to divide time between them because some gathering nodes can't be gathered from without non-gatherers taking care of enemy or enemies around certain nodes, such as this tiny pillar that has a blue gathering node and a Malboro on top, and the Malboro can see all directions, so you can't gather when its back is turned. Basically people are suppose to be working together, but instead everyone wants to just battle for an hour and a half. The reason certain people are not getting credit when one or more person from party is not participating in battle is because all parties congregate on the same enemies (dino island). If your party is the only one on said enemies you get full credit, and almost every rank of enemy from I to V can be downed by 1 party in NM, except maybe the strongest. This means you can fly with the gatherers to the gathering spot, and while half the party gathers, the other half can fight surrounding monsters. HM I'm not sure of since I never tried it yet, but HM doesn't apply here since you have to go in FC and we're talking about PUGs.

I swear, I'm going to start reposting this in every one of these threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vandril

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

• Base the damage requirements for kill credit for mobs on the number of DoW/M in the party.
• Disallow DoL/H from rolling on DoW/M gear drops.
• Allow DoL treasure chest contents to go only to DoL classes.

DoL problems solved.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

• Flag DoW/M who have not contributed damage or effective healing (healing a max-health target does not count) while in combat within the past 5 minutes.
• Flag DoL who have not gathered from a node or a fishing spot within the past 5 minutes.
• Flag DoH as soon as the player switches to one.
• Remove the flag if the above conditions which caused the flag are no longer met.
• Allow any flagged player to be vote-kicked. No vote-kick cooldown.
• If the entire group is flagged, disallow the vote-kick option entirely.

AFK problems solved, with restrictions in place to minimize abuse.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

DF Diadem is now boss.

---

This is exploration, not 'you're not allowed to gather and we must only kill mobs'.

Gatherers also spawned chests with both materials and loot in that you can also roll on and have a chance at getting. Don't be selfish.

well gatherer's and crafter's were all part of the last relic so don't be surprised to see it coming. I reckon most if not all the relic will be diadem related.

Please remove fighters from easy and Normal Diadem, they mess my gathering up and keep harassing me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cgbspender

Please remove fighters from easy and Normal Diadem, they mess my gathering up and keep harassing me.

---

Can you enter Diadem as a gatherer? ^^;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultima

That is uncalled for and extremely rude, people are allowed to discuss and offer their opinion on an issue. Diadem is really poor design and it needs to be addressed somehow.

---

While I agree with you I don't. I don't see an issue with diadem . The problem is that none one is happy with anything they want the game made for their liking.

The only thing that needs adjusting in Diadem for gathering is the spawn rate of steel spoils. For 90 mins of gathering u should at least come out with 20/30 but instead people are getting 6/7 every 90 mins. THAT needs addressing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJointss

I dont understand the logic of some of these threads. OMG I USED DF AND SOMEONE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY THE WAY I WANT!! This is what I read every time.

Form up a premade group and put in the description NO GATHERERS -- it really is that simple.

---

to many people with entitlement issues.. OMG I JOINED DF SO PLAY THE WAY I WANT *starts tantruming* excluding gatherers from diadem is just plain stupid honestly so many complain cause they want the game thier way n not willing to compromise so every1 can enjoy the content

It is hard to gather in diadem...
Lots of horrible monster that can see past your invisibily...

Gathering in diadem is a challenge !
A battlefield, where you need to be better than a ninja... To collect your node.

Gatherer can be in diadem as much as DoM and DoW
They just need not to be able to loot (just like Alexander savage invisible loot if you down it a second time)
But in the same time... It would be nice for DoM and DoW to have a reduced cap of participation if a DoL is in the party

...

Does some star rank can be trigger with gathering ? Like some old S rank in ARR
That would put gatherer in a better place...
And we would see less discriminating PF against gatherer

There should be penalty for teams that do not finish their diadem's goal
Forcing them to kill a bit more low level monster or forcing themto gather or fly around for crystal/hided chest

When I join to Diadem I see objectives, like collect 8 bronze chest, mine 12 nodes, botany 16 nodes, collect some red crystal, collect some white crystal.

So fighters are gonna collect chest, gatherers are going for nodes, somebody will collect crystal and thats it.
I dont see anywhere written that i am supposed to farm mobs at dino island for 80 more minutes after objectives are completed.

Can you please explain to me why some people are expecting this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Can you please explain to me why some people are expecting this?

---

I reckon for the same reason they expect you to come and start fighting right away in your daily expert roulette, rather than first sitting at the start, walking and emoting around, typing elaborate paragraphs about your character's reactions and thoughts to his/her sorroundings before starting to "walk" further (not run).

It doesn't say anywhere that you shouldn't do that. It's just kind of expected that you don't. On that note: Not joining FCs with the sole intention of plundering the FC bank at some point is also something that's simply socially expected for some odd reasons. People are weird like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

I reckon for the same reason they expect you to come and start fighting right away in your daily expert roulette, rather than first sitting at the start, walking and emoting around, typing elaborate paragraphs about your character's reactions and thoughts to his/her sorroundings before starting to "walk" further (not run).

---

Its not same. Because, in my example we completed objectives of duty asap. So if I apply my example with yours its like -> We completed dung (which is objective) and THEN we spare 80 minutes "walking and emoting around, typing elaborate paragraphs about your character's reactions and thoughts to his/her sorroundings". Which is weird. But somehow people expect its not weird in Diadem.

So If can SUM things UP:

Participate on completing objectives in DIADEM is mandatory for everyone.
After that, you are free to do what you want, you can leave(without penalty) because objective is done, you can gather, you can participate on dino insland farm. Exploring things, dance, whatever. Everything after this point is pure optional.

Same logic with dungeons
Participate on completing objectives in dungeon is mandatory for everyone. After that nobody cares if you are staying in dungeon for more, dancing, chatting, looting missed chest, exploring rrest of rooms, clearing rest of trash, etc.


If you are join any DUTY via DUTYFINDER, your mandatory objectives are written when you enter the instance. Please follow them.
If you want to create your specific rules for duty, please use party finder and mention that in comment.
Expecting people to farm 80 minutes mobs on same spot is like expecting people to do Titan EX walk only mode or dungeon only backward movement allowed. Its funny but its your own rule and it has nothing in common with general objective of duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

Its not same.

---

It is. The point is that it's all simply social expectations. You are still going to be completing the dungeon and achieving the objectives if you take it slow like that, there are 90 minutes on the clock after all and just fighting and running through only take about 20-30 of that. Leaves a full hour you can safely waste on fluff.

People however expect you to be faster just as people expect you to join Dino Island. "They" want a swift run and you are detrimentally affecting that goal by taking it slow. "They" want to get as many 210 pieces as possible and you are detrimentally affecting that goal by not participating in combat. So people expect you to not be a D and work against the goals of the other people. That's really all there is to it. Nothing in the game states you have to, it's all just social expectations.

But the point of Diadem is not farm ilvl 210 items, point of that duty is complete objectives. Which i mentioned before, collect 8 bronze chest, botany nodes etc.

Farming ilvl 210 on dino island is same like you skip that chest in Brayflox HM after 1 boss. Its optional. Social expectation are all subjective.
Maybe somebody also want that chest in BFHM but we skipped it, maybe somebody also want optional rooms in Haukke Manor. Its all subjective and not part of duty objective. So you may ask people to help you there, but you should not force them to do it.

However I agree that design of Diadem is bad, good idea - bad design, again SE. But i dont blame players for that. I wrote my expectation of Diadem in other topic here how my design should looks like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunnaRavenheart

But the point of Diadem is not farm ilvl 210 items, point of that duty is complete objectives.

---

So as long as you are completing the objectives, it's all good, right? Even if your daily dungeon takes the whole 90 minutes. Because, well...the point is to complete the objectives within the allotted time, not to complete the objectives fast. That's just what some random players want and it's totally optional.

Good that we reached an understanding there. I hope your party members will consider this in the future.

That aside, no, the point is not to complete objectives. Objectives are a means, not the end. Do I need to elaborate? I hope not, I'm getting more snarky by the minute.

What should be fixed is

A: reduce the amount of high rank mobs appear.
B: remove button of need/greed for gathering classes.
C: increase the goals on missions.

or
D: remove option of go Diadem on DF, and allow only FC with good airship goes there.
The current configuration of Diadem is excelent for FC parties not for PUGs.

This collective community attitude of "must farm Dino Island, must stay there 90 minutes, cannot go anywhere else, cannot split up at all, even if the number of parties there are mutually screwing one another out of chests due to damage requirements and threat table limits, must shriek at gatherers for not coming to my boring farm spot" is exactly why I haven't even managed to drag myself to Diadem to get enough spoils for a Pegasus.

If I wanted to stand in one spot and farm six mobs for hours and hours out of my day, I'd pick up a freemium Korean grinder MMO.

They really do need to add more objectives to the area maybe add gather items that would spawn a two star nm, but make it not to easy to obtain, maybe randomize the objective by adding more of them never have same objectives each time you enter?

easiest solution = remove 210 drops from diadem then the whinging about gatherers should slow down/stop cause most people salty are probably salty due to some1 gathering got what they wanted lmao

Would be best remove 210 from easy and normal, just for hard mode where they need go with an FC ship, and not DF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zorlinta

Would be best remove 210 from easy and normal, just for hard mode where they need go with an FC ship, and not DF

---

IMO you may suggested adding 220 to hard mode instead as everyone knows removing 210 will never ever happen.

it may works too increasing incentive to keep running hard mode instead easy/normal, or also at least also reduce the spawn rate of rank 5 and rank S from easy/normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zorlinta

Would be best remove 210 from easy and normal, just for hard mode where they need go with an FC ship, and not DF

---

You know DF was added because housing plots are very limited and many FCs would be locked out of that content, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

You know DF was added because housing plots are very limited and many FCs would be locked out of that content, right?

---

And that was exactly the mistake. Because it let form so randomly parties without any kind of control, and now having the lots of troubles cause of dino farmers.

Thats all very subjective. What you are their for has nothing to do what the original argument. DIADEM is for both Gear and Crafters. Both have an equal right to be there. Whether you have time for you "shinies" falls on you not the crafters. Stop acting like a child. If you don't the the setup then stop running it.

There is nothing wrong with Diadem at all. The problem is Party Finder and Duty Finder and the obvious flaws. You can ignore your party and still get rewarded for it. You can afk and roll on loots. Gatherers have as much right as battle classes but if you honestly want players to play the way you do you have to go in as a Free Company. I did two df runs of Diadem after seeing my Cohealer leave me to gather I realized these flaws and just decided to run with my Free Company. We setup farm parties for raiders who want to chance on gear, and we go as 1 tank 7 gatherers to gather. The tank baits mobs while flying and we gather.

Most of the time for V's and Stars you'll need all of the party there fighting it some are hard to defeat with just a single party,

Even if the make where only DOW and DOM lot on loot and you can't change jobs if chest still out so DOL couldn't switch back and till lot and get stud they didn't earn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Snip

---

What this guy said. There are lot of really nice items you can get from diadem only, plus you can use the spoils you gather up for some nice materia and crafting items that you can sell or keep for yourself. It's still very profitable/worthwhile to gather.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SonKevin

Stop whining.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archchancellor

OP needs to get over himself.

---

There is no need for that. The forum is a place for everyone to give their opinion.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63104

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gildrein

Please show respect and consideration to other users.

---

:On Topic:


I think there needs to be different ques for Diadem. One for Gathering and one for Combat. This might solve the issue a bit maybe. Restricting people from being able to gather would cause some problems since there are materials only found in normal mode Diadem. Or possibly allow Mining/botany strikes on minerals and trees or fishing reel successes count towards a dps hit depending on your gathering? (not sure if this would actually work)

I don't see much of an issue. I found you can get rewards from mobs in normal with a smaller party size. Sure not from S but lets face it, you don't join DF to farm 210 gear.

Really a better fix would be adjustments to how much damage is needed to claim a reward depending on the amount of players engaged in combat.

My FC and server in general isn't active in my time zone, so the DF is the only way I can really play this content. I really enjoy it actually, its a nice break to just faceroll mobs for a bit and just do mundane DPS. I know it sounds silly but sometimes I just want to do that.

That aside, each time I've joined it in the last few days the party breaks up shortly later because someone immediately jumps on a gathering job and annoys everyone by not helping. It's extremely disappointing because not only does it waste my time and everyone else but also it locks me out from being able to reenter again. It's really disappointing to join over and over again and not be able to play and not be able to retry. It effects everyone except the gatherer since they can happily continue on and still gain loot and goods well after the rest of the people have to leave and wait around defeated.

That said, I don't think gathering shouldn't be allowed or people not be allowed to do it in a DF group. They just need to make some adjustments to make this a wanted activity for the group and not purely for the solo player. Reducing the reentry timer was a nice start. Mobs should be adjusted so that contribution requirements scale down to the size of your party. Especially since you cant really kick or replenish ranks. If your party ends up being four people and a botanist, that should still be viable to get decent loot drops.
Secondly, they should up the appearance of treasure boxes for gatherers if they are in an active party. Let it be so that if someone goes off gathering, the rest of the party is still benefiting on receiving loot the same way the gatherer is able to sponge loot from the fighters. I think this would eliminate some of the hate for gatherers if they were contributing in a more obvious way. Could go beyond loot too, maybe gathering activities could give the rest of the party random buffs that really help with fighting, increase drop rates, or spawn high ranking mobs.

Something needs to be done to recreate synergy between these two activities. Telling people to use party finder is a poor side-step to the issue. It could be changed, it could be made more fun. And I hope that they do.

That would be like saying, " Leave Diadam only for gathers only" Its very selfish to expect them to only allow new content to allowed by Monster Farmers, and not those who need crafting materials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kio

Something needs to be done to recreate synergy between these two activities.

---

This is the only real way to fix this problem. Both sides have a right to be in diadem, SE just needs to find a way to make them work together inside so that both can benefit.

Gatherer's have every right to be in Diadem, they help with objectives and you passively get to make money off of them. The only thing that honestly needs to be fixed is that whatever the gatherers get from their chest is theirs and no one else and the DoW/DoL can only be rolled by battle classes. Damage on mob should be adjusted by those who are in battle classes and something of a party handicap applied. Theres also another fix, just make a PF and state the objective and specifically put out that you don't want any gathering. Our server puts up PFs where they are going to full time hunt and others state that they are just going for fast esos(which gatherers are usually free to join).