Astrologians were fine the way they were!

Omfg. People are so damn jealous lol. WHM and SCH were OP before, let AST be on the same level. Are you seeing parties saying no to a WHM or SCH just because they are not an AST? I haven't and I highly doubt there will be because guess what, WHM is not useless, SCH is not worse, only thing changed here is AST becoming better and at the same level as the other 2 healers. These fixes were definetely needed. They didn't randomly adjust the abilities and healing potencies. They studied the fights, recollected data based on Savage. These adjustments were the results of what they saw AST needed in order to achieve the same level of utility.

Oh and Nimue, please. AST was definetly NOT equal. lol

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

I've never cried about the fact that WHM will be replaced by AST, and I main WHM. I don't feel threatened by AST.

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It won't replace WHM, but the fact they made it almost as viable a healer as whm and keeps the party buffs, is broken.

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Originally Posted by CottonCandyLand

What are you talking about? AST was anything but equal. It wasn't even close to equal. AST is equal now because the job can actually heal, as long as my cards dont heal, i can't call myself a healer. if we go by your logic they would need to buff our cards into op'nes. A thing that would kill the whm instantly because then it would be AST/SCH.

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It was doing what it was supposed to. Again AST was meant to be weaker at healing to trade off for the party buffs. Just like how SCH is weaker at healing but trades off for the use of shields and fairy.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

-snip-

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People were saying no to AST, because the majority of people playing it sucked at playing it, which created a negative stigma to people playing it. If AST was as bad as people were saying it wouldn't be usable in savage, yet people have clears with AST in the party. But OMG ur so right AST was totally broken LOL.

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

It was doing what it was supposed to. Again AST was meant to be weaker at healing to trade off for the party buffs. Just like how SCH is weaker at healing but trades off for the use of shields and fairy.

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Except that didn't make Sch a weak healer. The easy of shields and the fairy made it actually a very very strong healer.

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

It was doing what it was supposed to. Again AST was meant to be weaker at healing to trade off for the party buffs. Just like how SCH is weaker at healing but trades off for the use of shields and fairy.

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Not wasn't AST are supposed to heal, they couldn't do that, because the cards where weak as heck and the heals where even worse. There is a reason why progress guildes took WHM/SCH for the endcontent. AST was supposed to be a full fledged healer, on par with SCH/WHM and it was not, saying anything else is a straight made up lie. Im sorry but i'm done. This discussion is meaningless if you fail to see that the AST was just too weak.

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Originally Posted by RyouAkizuki

Except that didn't make Sch a weak healer. The easy of shields and the fairy made it actually a very very strong healer.

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Dont get started about sch , sch got all the hate since HW , ninja embrace nerf , useless dissiaption that still isint fixed/buffed to a point where its worth using it , borderline useless emergency tactics , there is 0 point in emergency tactics, selene nerf on casters , and lustrate change from 25% to 600 potency which is also not affected by dissipation, when are those fixes coming? better just overbuff a class bcs there is a large playerbase playing it and find it cool so lets make them happy.

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Originally Posted by RyouAkizuki

Except that didn't make Sch a weak healer. The easy of shields and the fairy made it actually a very very strong healer.

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Yes their unique utility is what made them good, they were weaker than whm but they brought helpful utility to the group. AST utility was party buffs and that's what needed a rework, not the healing being on par with whm.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

Dont get started about sch , sch got all the hate since HW , ninja embrace nerf , useless dissiaption that still isint fixed/buffed to a point where its worth using it , borderline useless emergency tactics , there is 0 point in emergency tactics, selene nerf on casters , and lustrate change from 25% to 600 potency which is also not affected by dissipation, when are those fixes coming? better just overbuff a class bcs there is a large playerbase playing it and find it cool so lets make them happy.

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Yet for all of these supposed issues, SCH remains very powerful.

Dissipation is indeed terrible at what it's supposed to do, but I can't agree on the rest. ET is fantastic for handling certain mechanics, Lustrate change is more of a buff than it is a nerf, and the change to Selene's haste was a buff in virtually all cases except that of a BLM rocking high SPSPD.

As for Embrace, they should have just said that they were nerfing it and called it a day. Unless there's some magic point in their scaling formula at which Embrace starts to catch up again, it's a nerf. I'm not sure it isn't a necessary nerf, though, with how strong the rest of the SCH's kit is now.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

regen what? any respecable scholar uses selene and not eos.

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Pretty sure this is crap, cuz Rouse + Whispering dawn = more chance to dps. Alongside a healing buff. I've seen significantly more Eos then serene except in double SCH scenarios. Sure an attack speed boost is nice but negligible at best

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

snip

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Okay so 99% of the playerbase sucked at it, including japanese players. Okay. I don't know if you read a thread time ago about a good end game raider that wanted to main AST in Savage and tried to and even though he managed to beat floor 1 and 2, he aknowledged the obvious problems with the job. He was very good, but being good can only take you so far if the job is limiting. He was asked to change to WHM because it was obviously more reliable. Lots, LOTS of Astrologians trying Savage saw the obvious flaws, including myself. I don't know what world you are living in but it's very clear that when 99% of the playerbase playing AST felt their job was lacking is for a reason.

And just how many OUT of the whole AST population managed to beat floor 1 and 2 in comparison to WHM/SCH combo huh? And if they beat it was obviously because the cohealer had to put much more weight. if AST had been fine then why didn't they beat it at the same rate as a WHM/SCH combo? There is a reason the chart they showed on Live Letter had the majority of people playing WHM/SCH but AST was a whooping 15%.

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

It won't replace WHM, but the fact they made it almost as viable a healer as whm and keeps the party buffs, is broken.



It was doing what it was supposed to. Again AST was meant to be weaker at healing to trade off for the party buffs. Just like how SCH is weaker at healing but trades off for the use of shields and fairy.

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So you honestly think that no healer should bring bard-style buffs to a party and still be able to heal at the same level as another healer, or even close to that level, even if they have fewer or worse "emergency" buttons?

--Erim Nelhah

Now I can be participated in party from PF.

Hooray/!!

But Isn't it supposed to be?

Its funny how many people are coming out of the woodwork bashing astrologians now as supposedly replacing them in raids. I wish they would have given their input earlier before SE went gung ho on finally turning astro's into super saiyan healers.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Its funny how many people are coming out of the woodwork bashing astrologians now as supposedly replacing them in raids. I wish they would have given their input earlier before SE went gung ho on finally turning astro's into super saiyan healers.

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Input was given, people complained that they sucked. Even the good ones switched to other healers if they were pushing into hard content. They're NORMAL healers now, not broken underpowered.

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Originally Posted by Meow9000

Pretty sure this is crap, cuz Rouse + Whispering dawn = more chance to dps. Alongside a healing buff. I've seen significantly more Eos then serene except in double SCH scenarios. Sure an attack speed boost is nice but negligible at best

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I've seen a lot of people always compare the cards to Selene, including myself. What a lot of people like to ignore is that Selene is almost always the weaker Fairy to choose. It just is insult to injury when the AST's old "best" combo ended up being worse than the SCH's worst Fairy in terms of support capabilities. Hopefully that has changed, but I'll need to play AST to know more at this point.

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

Yes their unique utility is what made them good, they were weaker than whm but they brought helpful utility to the group. AST utility was party buffs and that's what needed a rework, not the healing being on par with whm.

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No just no.
AST is a HEALER. H.E.A.L.E.R
Healing is their most important job.
Buffs comes after.
*eye roll*

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Originally Posted by RyouAkizuki

Input was given, people complained that they sucked. Even the good ones switched to other healers if they were pushing into hard content. They're NORMAL healers now, not broken underpowered.

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THIS.
ASTs are now what they were supposed to be.
And just like every other job, people will adapt, AST will not replace anyone, seriously.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

better just overbuff a class bcs there is a large playerbase playing it and find it cool so lets make them happy.

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Lol? SE JUSTput out census data. 3% of people play astro enough for it to be their main. It has the lowest player base of any class in the game. Meanwhile? WHM is first place. When one healer is the most played class and one is the least, it's pretty obvious that one was weaker.

Also, yes Astro is stronger now. And our buff actually feel like they matter, but we cannot do sustained dps. A whm will always bring more heals and more DPS than an astro. We just now have the tools to not be the reason our team looses of we play perfectly. Even one red can kill an Astro's mp while both other healers can recover from major mp waste

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Lol? SE JUSTput out census data. 3% of people play astro enough for it to be their main. It has the lowest player base of any class in the game. Meanwhile? WHM is first place. When one healer is the most played class and one is the least, it's pretty obvious that one was weaker.

Also, yes Astro is stronger now. And our buff actually feel like they matter, but we cannot do sustained dps. A whm will always bring more heals and more DPS than an astro. We just now have the tools to not be the reason our team looses of we play perfectly. Even one red can kill an Astro's mp while both other healers can recover from major mp waste

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Don't fret my child, all you have to do you is cry a bit more they will se it fore sure , i am possitive by 3.1 you will get Aetherflow-like ability, 2-3 more accuracy ignoring DoTs and for the sake of it you will get your own personalised divine seal on top of synastry.

Ppl were just used to asts being weak sch/ whm jr.
Now tht ast has something to defend themselves with the schs & whms feel threatened lol.
So what is it, you want us to not be a normal healer?

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

oh rly well so you want to have mitigation and heals on par with both sch and whm and on top of that cards , balanced.

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That would be nice, except we dont have that yet. We can only do one or the other, not both, during any given fight. It'd make sense not to increase potency if we could use both simultaneously. Whatever flexibility it may appear we have out of combat means nothing, all that matters is what we can do in combat.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

oh rly well so you want to have mitigation and heals on par with both sch and whm and on top of that cards , balanced.

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You don't have whm or ast leveled so you have no idea how powerful whm is and how weak ast was before these buffs. I am also willing to bet you've done no savage raiding to know how demanding this tier is or what it takes to actually clear this content. Ast was excluded from nearly all serious progression groups and for good reason. People aren't going to be kicking out whm or sch in favor of ast.

I farmed Alexander normal with my ast and due to the other healer (and others) dying I was able to utilize my emergency toolkit to maintain the party. I still found it slightly more challenging than it would have been on my scholar or whm but I felt confident enough with the buffs to prolong the fights to clear them.

The card buffs are still a gimmick next to what our actual job is and the buffs are still so rng based they can hardly be taken in to account when looking at ast viability. I still lack the strong burst heals of a WHM or SCH. I still lack the dps output of a WHM or SCH. I still lack the reliable party buffs scholar bring. That isn't too say ast is worse than their two counterparts but it's a whole different playstyle with some nice party buffs to make up for where they would otherwise fall short.

Before making these absurd, posts then defend your ignorance for 11 pages, please go level your other healing jobs. Go work on savage turns then come back and share your pov of what you feel is overpowered.

And in what goddamn universe were our crap buffs worth taking our gimped healing for?

None.

They didn't pay off, the cards may never be drawn, the "buffs" we supposedly supply? Not worth factoring in.

That fact still remains. Only now since we have competitive healing, people can decide: "Hey since AST is no longer dead weight as a healer, maybe we can try it out and see it if helps us in this encounter"

You're pissed over that? You'd rather that example never happen. That's how you come off. You don't want AST to exist.

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Originally Posted by CottonCandyLand

And AST is not a Hybrid-Class, it's a Healer, nothing else. The potency buff was needed because now AST can actually heal stuff.

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A Healer who can do what both speacialized jobs can AND buff/support with their unique system and abilities. Great.

For everyone harping on about how AST was "supposed" to be a weaker healer than WHM and SCH, you should realize that the developers of the game apparently do not agree with you. They did not intend for AST to be a weaker healer, apparently, since they just buffed them. These guys know how they want their game to work, I would think, and it seems that they disagree with your assessment of what AST "should" be.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

A Healer who can do what both speacialized jobs can AND buff/support with their unique system and abilities. Great.

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Yes, because AST can change sects during the fight, and can use both, regen and shield but oh...wait...exactly, the AST can't. When do you people learn that the AST is in fact a Job, a Healjob and no, the AST can't heal better than WHM/SCH

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

A Healer who can do what both speacialized jobs can AND buff/support with their unique system and abilities. Great.

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Let me know when the AST gets Assize, Asylum, Presence of Mind, Benediction, and Cure 3. Or when the AST gets Fairy. No, really, just the Fairy. The fairy alone is that strong.

The AST hasn't replaced the WHM, it just was made not-completely-terrible compared to a WHM. The AST has not replaced the SCH, it just is not complete trash compared to a SCH. The SCH still has better healing while doing damage, still has crit adlo, and still has the ever-fantastic Fairy, and the WHM still has the most tools for bread and butter healing. That has not changed at all.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Let me know when the AST gets Assize, Asylum, Presence of Mind, Benediction, and Cure 3. Or when the AST gets Fairy. No, really, just the Fairy. The fairy alone is that strong.


The AST hasn't replaced the WHM, it just was made not-completely-terrible compared to a WHM. The AST has not replaced the SCH, it just is not complete trash compared to a SCH. The SCH still has better healing while doing damage, still has crit adlo, and still has the ever-fantastic Fairy, and the WHM still has the most tools for bread and butter healing. That has not changed at all.

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^this

I give up, there is no reason with those AST-bashing guys, let me tell you something. If your raidgroup replaced you with an AST or wants to, than thats only because the AST is the better player or you want to reroll. Thats all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

SCH probably upset because this means that generally speaking you will be deciding in your raid group between SCH and AST.

AST regen is (probably, idk) still worse than WHM and does not bring MND (seriously, MND vs PIE NEEDS to change) so you lock in WHM and by consequence you lose some SCH spots to AST.

Not to say AST didn't deserve buffs, but we do not have as many slots for healers as we would probably like.

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Ast + sch is a stronger combo then. Ast + whm

The moment WHM ceases to be the most powerful healer in raw-healing power aspect, the game needs to rethink its jobs, but that's just my feelings talking. I'm ok with AST changes, but I really like to feel unique when I play a class or job, and AST took the uniqueness from SCH and WHM both, while adding buffs. I really hope the next healer job is an all-unique one, not a class who can sect-change to play like a SCH or a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

AST took the uniqueness from SCH and WHM both, while adding buffs. I really hope the next healer job is an all-unique one, not a class who can sect-change to play like a SCH or a WHM.

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My feels exactly.
as much as i love AST it was not well designed, hybrids are a no no.
so...
first: SE reworks AST
second: SE will take an eternity to balance it.
third: SE will keep it the way it is, and the next expansion will bring a whole new healer with actual unique capabilities.
ugh

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Originally Posted by Anatha

You're pissed over that? You'd rather that example never happen. That's how you come off. You don't want AST to exist.

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https://38.media.tumblr.com/8111513d...rr5qo2_500.gif
She's on to us. TAKE HER OUT!

I think on next expansion, they should bring pet based job, Puppetmaster + Beastmaster. And another magic based attacker to complement Black Mage. Perhaps evasion based tank. And maybe turn Geomancer as a healer, now that would be interesting. This way we could have at least 2 pet based DPS, 2 magical DPS, and maybe another healer or tank. Runefencer would be great if we don't already have Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

I think on next expansion, they should bring pet based job, Puppetmaster + Beastmaster. And another magic based attacker to complement Black Mage. Perhaps evasion based tank. And maybe turn Geomancer as a healer, now that would be interesting. This way we could have at least 2 pet based DPS, 2 magical DPS, and maybe another healer or tank. Runefencer would be great if we don't already have Dark Knight.

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That's another problem with WHM I have. Why only Stone III, Aero III and no more water skills? Conjurers are supposed to have mastery over these 3 elements, so why is water being left behind with only the Fluid Aura? I know this doesn't really affect gameplay, but they could have created more water spells/dots instead of going for the THIRD earth and wind magic on our skillset.

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Originally Posted by NimueAstolat

It was doing what it was supposed to. Again AST was meant to be weaker at healing to trade off for the party buffs.

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Eh, I don't remember hearing this from the devs at all. Only from a few people on here and Reddit. I don't buy it either. I'm sorry, I just don't think the buffs were good enough to warrant weaker heals and practically no good CD's.

I only hit 60 on Ast a few days ago, so I haven't really been able to try it out on anything more challenging than the leveling dungeons...But it sure felt quite a bit weaker than Whm and Sch. In fact, I could tell it was weaker in the first dungeon I ran at 30. I main Whm, and I'm really happy about the buffs. Don't really understand why a few people are so mad. Maybe because there will be more Asts running around now?

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Originally Posted by Rydiah

Eh, I don't remember hearing this from the devs at all. Only from a few people on here and Reddit. I don't buy it either. I'm sorry, I just don't think the buffs were good enough to warrant weaker heals and practically no good CD's.

I only hit 60 on Ast a few days ago, so I haven't really been able to try it out on anything more challenging than the leveling dungeons...But it sure felt quite a bit weaker than Whm and Sch. In fact, I could tell it was weaker in the first dungeon I ran at 30. I main Whm, and I'm really happy about the buffs. Don't really understand why a few people are so mad. Maybe because there will be more Asts running around now?

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AST still is weaker at healing, but the gap is no longer crippling. People comparing raw potencies and declaring that AST suddenly has the best healing kit are not really on point, here.

The point appears to have been to bring them close to what the other Jobs offer while increasing the appeal of their special utility (i.e. cards).

I'm happy with the buff, despite AST getting slightly stronger shields, its not going to matter since any AST with half a brain will switch over to Diurnal with a SCH in the party (if they don't, its their fault and you can point this out) No one should feel threatened, AST has gone from being a class universally regarded as "inferior" to WHM/SCH to being a class that can stand with both in any situation, this is something to be celebrated.

AST will bring unique card buffs and not piddle behind on healing, they fit in with WHM/SCH without stepping on their toes (use Noct with WHM, Diurn with SCH) and use card buffs that can assist the raid in various ways. I am interested in how this develops.

If anyone starts excluding certain healers, ignore em, they don't know what they are talking bout.

Well, we'll see how they work out in the Alex Savage runs this week. I think most of these fears will settle as the week goes on though.

As far as I'm concerned, the 3 healers have almost identical healing ability now. What's different is:
WHM: healing buffs and aoe damage
SCH: damage mitigation, single target damage, and MP efficiency
AST: damage buffs and mobile healing

btw, great line from the OP.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

A Healer who can do what both speacialized jobs can AND buff/support with their unique system and abilities. Great.

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It just amazes me how the people who haven't leveled these jobs or done any endgame have the strongest opinions about the buffs.