Please for future Expansions: No level Cap increasement anymore

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

Nowdays everyone enjoys much more the experience of nice dungeons, complex boss battles and storyline... not grinding through trivial quests that no one really enjoys or is paying attention to. I understand that this is a much easier way to create content for players that increases the playtime in a total. But besides that it is nothing more than a timesink that no one really enjoys.

---

Speak for yourself. Don't pretend to be speaking for the rest of us. Your use of "everyone" there insinuates that you have proof of some kind of playerbase-wide unanimous feeling about leveling, the main story quest, and upward progression in general. I assure you that you do not. I for one enjoyed leveling my main character up. I enjoyed the quests and paid attention to the vast majority of them (I will admit speed-clicking through the moogle side quests in Churning Mists after awhile because god all they do is lose things or lose each other).

Quote:

---

if you enjoy leveling there most likely will be new jobs every expansions which you have to lv from lv 1 or lv 30 on to lv 60.. which is quiet enough if you ask me.

---

That's great. That's your opinion. It's not shared by everyone. It's certainly not shared by me.

Quote:

---

And at the moment i have the feeling that many people gave up leveling there classes from lv 50 to 60 after a few days and already quit before they reached the new endgame content.

---

Funny, the game seems busier than ever to me. I am in the process of leveling up my second class (Scholar), mostly by doing things like roulettes, battlecraft leves, and daily hunts. I have yet to wait longer than about 3 minutes in queue for a roulette or dungeon (yes I'm a healer, but if the game was dead I'd still have longer queues). I have yet to enter a zone for hunt mobs where I don't see at least 1-2 people on the shout channel, whether it be alerting people to B ranks or just having a conversation. When I pick up my leves and head out to the Hinterlands (I am level 58 now), there are always at least half a dozen other people doing the same thing. Hell, when I do my class quests typically there's a couple of other people there as well. So... yeah. I don't get the feeling that many people bought the expac, leveled to 52 or 53, then threw up their hands to say "this is too haaaaaard!" and just quit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

I agree, plenty of ways to add new skills and gear to game, without making everything before it obsolete and basically hitting reset on the entire game.

---

Hitting reset on the entire game is what made it so new players drawn in by the expansion aren't as far behind, though. They can level to 60 using the gear given to them in the MSQ or bought from vendors instead of having to raid or grind tomes with a weekly lockout (as they were in ARR). They can get to i170 and jump right into Alexander instead of having to slog through 3 tiers of Coil first. They can jump right into Bismarck and Ravana EX instead of having to get clears on the ARR primals. Yes there are those that will want to go back and do said content, but it isn't required to catch up. I feel that the "reset button" is one of the strengths of the expac.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

Same old fashioned quest design of the 2004's when WOW came out.. and which cant even be compared to the quest design of nowdays games like GW2 or ESO

---

First off to try and say that ESO doesn't have the same fetch and carry quests is just a bold face lie. Zenimax said they could justify the $15 a month because it was going to be revolutionary. Wait..... aren't they free to play now? Now GW2 is a different beast all together with their quote "Living World" which is great and all right up to the point where you want to get serious and realize you missed the past couple of years of different content because it changes like every two to three months. Yeah no thanks guy.

I disagree with the OP completely. I enjoy leveling up new jobs and old ones beyond their current level, it's fun to me. Also, the armory bonus is insane below 50 now so really isn't that hard to get to 50 anymore.

If anything I hope they add something like merits from ffxi or planar attunement from rift so that we can still get exp and improve even at max level on top of additional level cap increases.

It just sounds like this is not the game the OP was looking for. If you would have a complete redesign of a game that has already been completely redesigned, then you might be happier elsewhere. Mass exodus and public shaming of a terrible product is what got us 2.0. I personally dont have any issues with this game aside from how they did the personal housing (still ticked about that).

A few tweaks to the existing formats wouldnt be all bad. I would prefer to have fewer quests and make them "matter" more or provide enough exp through the MSQ to get you to cap then all side quests will be for extra levelling. Quality over quantity. But I don't mind the quests as they are cause this an RPG first and an MMO second. That is the distinction I think the OP is missing. More lateral progression would be nice, as well as more interesting stats on the gear like maybe some bonus to a specific skill or something. But to put a complete kibosh on any further level cap increase, well sonny, this isnt that kind of game. They may skip a patch but it will go up. So don't get your hopes up too high.

Horizontal progression is ew.

oh look its another "I represent the entire player base so SE should listen to everything i say" thread

How dare they put leveling into my Final Fantasy.

Sarcasm is so thick in this thread, you'd need a buster sword to cut it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

- boring, monotonous sidequests
- fetch and carry tasks

these are filler quests per definition.. copy&paste.. and they are there for timesink and nothing more.

---

You act like you've just made the astonishing discovery that leveling in MMOs is not the most exciting part of the game usually. It always has been that way; even when WoW introduced the questing model getting to 60 was a grind that a lot of people complained about. (which, by the way, WoW's questing model was REVOLUTIONARY during 2004 lol. Try leveling in Everquest or anything pre-WoW.)

While some people enjoy leveling more than others everybody knows it's mostly a tedious grind. I'm not sure why you are even bothering bringing GW2 up; getting to max level in that game was still a pain, especially if you weren't particularly interested in climbing up the side of hills or staring at a map trying to figure out the last stupid thing in the zone you missed, or running 500 miles back to get back to the battle after you died in WvW. GW2 offered variety, but leveling was still a grind. GW1 is a MUCH better example of what you are talking about; the game very quickly capped at level 20 and STAYED that way. All expansions after that simply added new content without raising the level cap, and that game was actually pretty fun too. Different, but fun.

So yes, of course questing is a time sink. But I think you should hop over to perhaps some Korean MMOs and try them out for a while, and you'll see that FF14's grind isn't so bad after all lol. Not by a long shot.

Lol, I don't really see the problem here tbh. I mean this whole game is based and paced around playing for a few weeks to grind all the top notch gear then unsubscribe and then go back and do it all over again in the patch that comes two or three months later. An expansion lifting the lvl cap and making your gear obsolete might be a bit healthy since it comes out every 1.5 years or so. I mean I have seen games where it worked great to never do it, but since some seem to enjoy it a little bit of both sides could be good. The issue is not the expansion, the issue is this is exactly what happens every single patch. It is a complete and utter waste of resources and an old relic of a system, but you know WoW had/has(?) it so you better believe FFXIV needs it as well because anything not WoW does not cater to the masses apparently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

lol... accomplished? accomplisment for killing 1000.000 trash mobs.. right that is an accomplishment.. i feel sorry for you if you havent played or enjoyed a MMorpg that doesnt use the cheap way of senseless exp treadmill reset O.O

its not more like a filler.



tons of filler quests that are boring as hell: and obviously there for filler purposes. seriously who isnt skipping the standard quest textboxes?

its just running from exclamation mark to the next marker on the map to kill 2 trash mob goblins.. which i already had hundreds of times ago with different mob types. wohoo.. "how fun"..

THIS should be FUN??

---

They can't please everyone and this game is one of the most successful MMOs on the market. I doubt the basics like this will change anytime soon.

BTW, you can level without ever touching a quest. In fact, it's much faster to level without touching a quest.

What if you don't want to level any of the new jobs? AST / DRK and MCH don't speak to me at all. Though the leveling new jobs would satisfy most users to get their leveling grind in. Some, it doesn't.

The most enjoyable things are the Storyline \ Dungeons \ Raids, but also those little side quests. If a Goblin lost his comb, that's a task for the Warrior of Light! Oiling down a man in nothing but boxers? A job for a very curious..but willing warrior of light! Cat on the roof? If I have to I will use the echo! Would you like me to deliver that letter for you? I'm here for the great people of Eoreza, whether it's taking out an Ascian, Primal or walking around and letting someone know "Hey..put some pants on, come get some soup!" Gather everyone up and see the CS of people being happy.

You don't seem to be having fun but only for so much of the game. If that's the case you should play until you've reached your level of enjoyment..then quit. Come back later. If this game doesn't suit you..then continue to not play and maybe another game will speak to you.

From the replies most enjoy leveling because you experience the things that do make it enjoyable along the way. If you FATE grind, that is boring I'm sure. I don't do it, because I'm not in a rush. This is a very fun and casual game once you take out the mentality of treating it like it's a career and you have a deadline to meet.

I see 4Players and Gamestar have given the game a bad name but you're forgetting that the reviews don't matter from people I don't know. Here are some of the reviews I've gotten.

"This dungeon is beautiful, I had a blast in The Vault" ~ Shinaux Mouri FFXIV Friend.

"I love playing this job!" ~ Bishop (FC member and fellow SMN)

"I'm flying! This is cool Look at the bird. " "you're on a Griffin" "what's that?" ~ Tailor 4 year old.

"Richard... Who's you're favorite little rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it Spanky?" ~ Chris Farley

"What are you playing..no..turn that off." ~ Girlfriend.

"I like the game but this is too much time for me..I'm going back to The Witcher 3" ~ Brian aka FourtyTwenty until he quit after multiple attempts. Gone but not forgotten..because we won't let him forget!

These are the reviews that matter. I don't care what some guy that I'll never meet thinks. The people you interact with and play with, that is what makes it fun. If you are not having fun..it's time to move to another game.

I personally don't mind level cap increases and more so I don't mind new or fresh level 1 classes or even jobs. It does breathe life back into older dungeons and it is kinda nice to re-run those from time to time when I am not lv 50+. However I also find it as a time to learn my class and tweak my hotbar to be better suited to my play style. Now, if we do not plan to gain any more moves then I am happy not raising the level cap but if we get new skills, I'd like the learning period to adjust and make room for my new skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CodeCass

My feelings exactly! Leveling up in an expansion is exactly what I expect/want. As others have said, the linear progression could use a bit of work, but the game is still young and has time to grow.....So it's kind of like we're leveling up WITH the game itself haha.

---

Thank you! :-D Nice to see there are plenty of people on here that more or less agree with me. I understand we're not all going to feel exactly the same. But to hate leveling when leveling is what you do in an rpg is just kind of silly. I understand and agree that the game isn't perfect, but for all its flaws its still fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiiyoAoi

Reset on 2 yr old content is a bad thing?

'Increasement' made me chuckle

---

Right up there with 'argumentation'.

Every System in an MMO has it's flaws and I can easily point out the flaws of system you think would work.

"champion levels where you had to defeat several boss encounters."

Players already P2W with gil for content like extreme primals and the likes plus this would create a hostile environment for players being locked out because say this happens "Looking for tank to complete content A but don't join unless you beat Content A and have gained your new abilities through content A" Again this already happens with content that is a day old, they want people to be masters of mechanics and expect everything, to not be part of the "tome bonus" or else /kick.

No system in an MMO is perfect and every system is going to have it's flaws.

Here is another issue when considering Horizontal progression. Horizontal progression forces players to do x content rather than feeling like they have the option to choose.

Currently yes linear progression however with linear progression you can decide do I want to do x y z, for the casual player they arent' as focused on BIS as hardcore are with micromanagin stats. Casual are more open to whatever gear offers the highest IL that gets the job done.

Now add horizontal progression and what happens? "Looking for healer who has beaten and obtain the monocle of behemoth or no go" You create a bigger rip of segregation cause now gear nazis are forcing you to dress a certain way. The issue with horizontal progression is while players might think it offers "freedom" to choose how you want to gear the reality is it hinders your ability to play as you choose. Now if you want to do x content you have to be certain you have specific gear from y content from a piece of content you might not have interest in.

It's the same way people think skill trees offer a high level of customization but the reality is once players find the most proficient setup it's either follow the herd or be shunned out of content. If you dare try to mix match and be a jack of all trades good luck doing raids because you're completely useless to them and thus you are locked out of a majority of content in some cases.

It's all give and take and while yes it might come off like there isn't much freedom in the best way to gear the thing is to an extent the linear progression currently in the game offers more freedom than a horizontal system would because players can choose to do dungeons to gain tomes, to use i160 gear til they get i170, to do hunts to obtain what's needed to upgrade to i180, to obtain bismark weapon before i170 weapon or to skip bismark and go straight to i180 weapon, to take the time to beat ravana to obtain the best weapon currently in the game or to just use a crafted HQ weapon fully melded if they feel they can do better with that.

Lol?

How about no.

Horizontal progression is incredibly obnoxious, and trying to keep several years old raid content relevant is a waste of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

lol... accomplished? accomplisment for killing 1000.000 trash mobs.. right that is an accomplishment.. i feel sorry for you if you havent played or enjoyed a MMorpg that doesnt use the cheap way of senseless exp treadmill reset O.O

its not more like a filler.

---

You mean like literally EVERYTHING ELSE?

Doing that dungeon run for the 100th time for more tokens ot buy your gear that will be replaced in a couple months by more token gear from doing 100 more dungeons...

Welcome to modern MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

Lol?

How about no.

Horizontal progression is incredibly obnoxious, and trying to keep several years old raid content relevant is a waste of time.

---

And replacing raid content every single patch is a waste of content. We have literally gained ZERO relevant raid content since day 1. Opened with 4 relevant raid encounters.. And at this rate FFXIV will die with 4 relevant raid encounters.

Group gear needs to stop surpassing raid gear every single cycle.

Problem is sounding more like you dislike this game OP, so just don't play it?

GW2 leveling was Terrible, sure the first time you get to max level is ok but when you can just craft from 50-80 in Lion's Arch it got boring very quick. I don't hate HW leveling at least the story is interesting to keep me going but the only real game I enjoyed leveling in is ESO.

Hey so I went and checked a few pages back to see the OP came back and cherry-picked comments to reply to that were all incensed to say "flame on childish nub" at. Like, while I disagree with this guy and find his arguement has no logical base I entertained it, but I'm beginning to think this really is just an attempt to troll people now.

We've got literally ten pages of people disagreeing with the OP, it might be a good time to let this ship crash and burn.

Quote:

---

Group gear needs to stop surpassing raid gear every single cycle.

---

No?

Raid gear will surpass group gear again too. That's how item progression works.

Deal with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nadirah

No?

Raid gear will surpass group gear again too. That's how item progression works.

Deal with it.

---

OR. We could have 8-12 relevant raid encounters and have group gear stay under raid gear for the expansion cycle. But I know I know if raid gear is better everyone who doesn't raid would quit because they can't have gear 50 ilvls higher than the dungeons they run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dererk

We could still learn new skills with out leveling FFXI didn't raise their level cap from 75 for a long time instead they put in the merit system that made it so instead of exp you get merit exp that you can then use to customize your job with new ability's traits and boost your stats also boost existing and new ability's. So no we don't really need a level cap raised every expansion.

---

And yet people constantly begged for level cap increases. Funny thing, that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dererk

We could still learn new skills with out leveling FFXI didn't raise their level cap from 75 for a long time instead they put in the merit system that made it so instead of exp you get merit exp that you can then use to customize your job with new ability's traits and boost your stats also boost existing and new ability's. So no we don't really need a level cap raised every expansion.

---

Or we could have both? AA system was literally the best thing to ever happen to EQ. Gave you plenty of progression to do once you hit the lvl cap to improve your character in meaningful ways. New skills, passive buffs, etc. They can put in the equivalent of a merit system AND give lvls just fine.

Though personally I'd want a much more intensive system than the XI merit system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekodar

The only thing that really needs changing is the level synching for duties that are lower level than you are.

The level synch as it works today prevents you from using higher level abilities, skills and spells. Which makes it more annoying to run low level duties than it needs to be.
Change the synch feature so that we have full access to everything we have learned, even if at gimped potency, and things would be much better.

---

They already have that is called system settings for duty finder run with the non recommended amount. I was running low lvl dungeons by my self at level 60 and destroying everything

Now for this actual post. .. I enjoy the leveling process hell I'm leveling more than one character because I like the leveling and the story line. I can't wait for the next level cap raise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rannie

They already have that is called system settings for duty finder run with the non recommended amount. I was running low lvl dungeons by my self at level 60 and destroying everything

---

He is talking about doing the roulette and being put in a lvl 15 dungeon and not having access to your skills. What you are talking about is not related at all.

Back in 2.0 cycle nothing was more annoying than going into a roulette and having your combos no longer exist.

It's still something that can be done so it is valid especially if your running with a new player and don't feel like having the cap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoahArks

I love how it's a IGN and Steam review score. The only people actually buying the game on steam are the insane fanboys. The story in itself is fine, but the battle system and how everything progresses is absolutely awful.

---

Another butt hurt kid that wasn't old enough to play it when it came out, and therefore thinks it's terrible because it's not Call of Duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tonkra

tons of filler quests that are boring as hell: and obviously there for filler purposes. seriously who isnt skipping the standard quest textboxes?

its just running from exclamation mark to the next marker on the map to kill 2 trash mob goblins.. which i already had hundreds of times ago with different mob types. wohoo.. "how fun"..

THIS should be FUN??

---

I do ready the text box :(

What I like about Heavensward Side quest is that they now have Side-Storyline Side Quests which each of them covering a part of FF14 Lore and characters life outside of their role in the MSQ.

Like the Moogle Side-storyline quest that explains the origins of the Moogles.

There even a Side-storyline quest in Toll at lvl 54 that foreshadows a future event in FF14 either being a new Dungeon or Hildibrand Season 2.

Judging by the second post on this thread. I would say the community begs to differ OP.

What MMO have you played where leveling up wasn't part of the experience? Even in MOBAs you have to level up the character during the fight (for the most part). The level cap doesn't have to increase with every expac, but this is FF14's first expansion after how long? The game was very stagnant for the vets and if they didn't give leveling during this expac, people would be complaining even more about nothing to do while waiting for Alexander before it came out.

Different people like different things, that's fine. But leveling up is supposed to act as an entryway to help players learn their class/job. SE does need to fix what level order some of the skills are learned (*coughBRDcough*) so they make better sense. Literally at the end-game is the same dungeon/raid to run over, and over, and over again. How is that any less boring than leveling? Exact same process, just different skinned monsters.

I personally don't mind having the level cap increase. One day we'll be lvl 99 looking back on our adventures. I just really dont like that we already need millions of exp to get to 60 like another long running mmo. For someone that wats to have all jobs level capped (Iwill eventually) its one hell of a grind.

Did this guy really make a thread telling people how they should feel and thrashing them if they feel otherwise?


Anyway the entire purpose of increasing level cap in most games is it evens the playing grounds. In competitive games expansions like this serve so that "Elite" Guilds are even with others and allows others a chance to clear new content on even grounds. At the same time class rebalances serve to stop cheese and allow other classes to shine in their own ways.

10 Levels is the perfect amount for this game because it means that all pieces of gear are outclassed by this point by new gear and forces all to clear new dungeons again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HereticBliss

Another butt hurt kid that wasn't old enough to play it when it came out, and therefore thinks it's terrible because it's not Call of Duty.

---

To be fair, there are those of us wo played 8 when it came out, desperately tried to like it, but thought that the plot was far beyond terrible, characters (Rinoa, I'm looking at you especially) were unlikable, and the draw and junction system punishing for those of us who liked to actually use the abilities rather than junction the strongest magic and aura the hell out of everything.

I like the cap increase, I hope they do it with each expac. Its a lot of fun seeing your character grow.


Btw, I noticed you automatically started insulting people who did not agree with your opinion within the first page. Probably not a great way to garner support for your argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skypirate

Did this guy really make a thread telling people how they should feel and thrashing them if they feel otherwise?


Anyway the entire purpose of increasing level cap in most games is it evens the playing grounds. In competitive games expansions like this serve so that "Elite" Guilds are even with others and allows others a chance to clear new content on even grounds. At the same time class rebalances serve to stop cheese and allow other classes to .

---

I think this post hit the nail on the head. To add to it, this leveling also helps the devs with balancing stuff. They don't have to redo every old dungeon every time new skills are added because you never get those skills in the older dungeons. This allows them to add skills with completely new mechanics without worrying about breaking old content.

Level new jobs? I do not want to level new jobs. I want to level my main.

I don't mind the grind. Quite enjoy it.

I say next expansion brings us to lvl 75 and we stop there for 8 years!

If we are not getting BIS crafted gear then leave crafting/gathering at 50 or 60 and not up their cap. the gear isn't best in slot so its just vanity crap, and nothing truly worth crafting on a end game stand point. All crafting brings us is vanity clothes, furniture, and minions nothing to actually help clear any form of content now. Leave the crafts/gathers at their current cap for the next epac no point in forcing us to relevel/regear them when we get nothing of use to the raiding or dungeoning community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IceWing

If we are not getting BIS crafted gear then leave crafting/gathering at 50 or 60 and not up their cap. the gear isn't best in slot so its just vanity crap, and nothing truly worth crafting on a end game stand point. All crafting brings us is vanity clothes, furniture, and minions nothing to actually help clear any form of content now. Leave the crafts/gathers at their current cap for the next epac no point in forcing us to relevel/regear them when we get nothing of use to the raiding or dungeoning community.

---

There's more to the game than raids/dungeons D: I see what you're saying, and you may not like content such as the housing system where crafting really shines (and that's ok!), but honestly, I play the game to craft. I really enjoy it and love the fact that I can level it a bit more post-Xpac^^;