Easiest dps right now

Hence why the topic was about which one is the easiest, or least bloated. There's a limit to the number of hotkeys I'm willing to train my muscle memory, and dps classes in this game are getting there.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

And if you'd be so kind, would you please point me to a class mechanic that is "as annoying" as having to react to random positionals?

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Enochian is probably the single most annoying thing ever conceived. Any movement, interruption, or inability to attack anything even for a second makes BLM lose one or more 504 potency Fire 4 and has the risk of the following:

• Reverting back to neutral stance, which makes them do 0 DPS for a time and possibly forces an early Enochian refresh.
• Losing Enochian altogether, which forces them to use the old ARR rotation and your mana pool is not big enough to do that smoothly.
• Both, which is when you just throw your hands up in the air and go cry in the nearest corner.

It's very satisfying when everything lines perfectly while standing still, but it also can be the worst thing ever two seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

• Losing Enochian altogether, which forces them to use the old ARR rotation and your mana pool is not big enough to do that smoothly.

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I don't think the ARR rotation was meant to be dropped entirely in favor of the new rotation, I need to do a bit of testing.

The new rotation though makes full use of your mana, while the ARR rotation doesn't anymore, because Fire I costs like 2k mana at 60. You feel you are being robbed out of an extra fire, having to get into Umbral Ice before you drop below 2k mana. Of the two rotations, obviously the ARR rotation is more mobile friendly.

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Originally Posted by Swordphobic

Hence why the topic was about which one is the easiest, or least bloated. There's a limit to the number of hotkeys I'm willing to train my muscle memory, and dps classes in this game are getting there.

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I'm in the same boat. My gamepad only has 15 buttons, and right now I've made the mistake of lvling DRG. Is it hard? Is it easy? I don't know, but it feels like I'm juggling and sometimes I can't keep up with all the buttons.

MNK is probably one of the least changed jobs from pre-HW

That said, the current relevant bosses (BisEX/RavEX) aren't exactly melee friendly. I hope their long downtimes & frequent positional screwing doesn't become a trend.

I would say Bard is still the easiest to play buttons wise but they have very low dps and they play different now that you know their is going to be some drastic changes coming semi soon that could be risky to put the effort of leveling.

I think blackmage is your best bet. You have to manage your abilities a lot by knowing when to use them but there is not a TON of buttons to push. Summoner is another option if you can get past the fact that 1-50 is a lot different play style compared to 52-60. Most summoners are loving their class now and the changes that made their spells instant.

DRG and 15 buttons :confused:? I'm counting at least 25 buttons to maximize my dps. And there are still some skills like Foresight and other defensive skills.

I've read this entire thread, and I still have no idea. Easy is subjective, because some people don't mind lots of buttons, and some people don't mind positional requirements. So I'd like to know, which of the DPS classes has the least buttons/bloat? I don't care about positional requirements. I just don't like having to push sooo many buttons.

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Originally Posted by Tal72

I've read this entire thread, and I still have no idea. Easy is subjective, because some people don't mind lots of buttons, and some people don't mind positional requirements. So I'd like to know, which of the DPS classes has the least buttons/bloat? I don't care about positional requirements. I just don't like having to push sooo many buttons.

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I'd say bard but I'm not sure exactly.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

I'd say bard but I'm not sure exactly.

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Hmm, I'm not sure either but BRD usually has a good amount of buttons due oGCD and the amount of CDs they have.
Not sure if that's changed, but they've mostly added to that.

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Originally Posted by Tal72

I've read this entire thread, and I still have no idea. Easy is subjective, because some people don't mind lots of buttons, and some people don't mind positional requirements. So I'd like to know, which of the DPS classes has the least buttons/bloat? I don't care about positional requirements. I just don't like having to push sooo many buttons.

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So I think BLM would be the answer.
That's how they were in ARR and the new additions don't seem like enough to make them as button heavy as the rest.

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Originally Posted by Tal72

I've read this entire thread, and I still have no idea. Easy is subjective, because some people don't mind lots of buttons, and some people don't mind positional requirements. So I'd like to know, which of the DPS classes has the least buttons/bloat? I don't care about positional requirements. I just don't like having to push sooo many buttons.

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BLM is the one with the least buttons. A lot of skills that are almost obsolete, hardly any cross-class skills worth using regularly, cooldowns are mostly defensive.

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Originally Posted by Ogrumz

My point is your class isn't some extremely hard to play thing that you need to get all hurt over someone pointing it out? There are several other DPS classes that have things that are 'just as hard' and 'just as annoying' and 'just as complex' as dragoon does. I don't find 2 random positionals adding complexity to a class.

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Its not just the two positionals... its not procs... its not the number of buttons to push... its the fact that those positionals maintain BoTD and are 4th tier combos. Imagine you had to wait an extra GCD to refresh GL, and every other time you did, to achieve optimum DPS you had to expend 50-75% of the remaining duration on an oGCD skill, and then pray you have enough skill speed and no mechanical interruptions in between that and your next combo finisher. I understand MNKs now have an ability that allows them to switch forms at will, and a single attack that they can spend GL with but as I understand it this is not something you use repeatedly in your rotation, with DRG it is. You have to play a balancing game of not only hitting those positionals but also spending and getting back time on your stacks, or in DRG's case, BoTD. Its a completely different game from MNK.

The positionals aren't what make it hard, its keeping BoTD up that is the tricky part. You are expected to bring your remaining time on that buff down to 1 or 2 seconds before refreshing it 3 times a minute in a continuous rotation if mechanics allow. Its bleeding edge, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants intense.

Regardless of the mechanics in any fight MNK can get back their stacks by simply ho-humming through the rotation, DRGs actually have to plan ahead considerably more since their "stacks" have a 1 minute cooldown i.e. it has to be up and available to use for your combo finishers to even be usable and/or contribute to maintaining it. Your expenditure of the duration of this buff using Geirskogul also shifts combos every minute in a continuous rotation, so your placement of it in the rotation is never something that you will get used to or that will become "muscle memory". If your eyes are glazing over at reading this it just further proves my point: It is extremely hard to play now, and I say that as someone that has experience playing both jobs in endgame content in 2.0. With the changes made to all the melee, DRG easily has the highest skill cap of any of the melee DPS now. Its a fact, sorry if you disagree but it doesn't make it any less fact.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Dragoon without a doubt.

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Really? xDD

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...psmiboslrx.jpg

(I'd say Bard & Ninja is easier)

It really is all relative to the person themselves this thread is pointless lol

I've been wondering this too, honestly. I'm not the spring chicken I used to be.

I rolled BLM because I was told it was easy and in ARR that seemed true-ish. Now it's making me a little nuts. It feels slow, unwieldy, awkward and I've come to realize a long history of playing extremely fast, mobile classes in other games is crippling my ability to play a turret, especially with all the vicious movement required in Heavensward so far.

I did start up a Bard in ARR and loved it. Being able to dps on the move felt much better to me but the news of Wanderer's Minuet kept me from leveling the Bard. I've stuck to BLM due to inertia, but I think I need to have something else to use for my sanity.

Help.

Help.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Probably BLM until you actually have to move.

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"...Until you actually have to move". AS IF ALL BLM DOES IS BLAST FIRE TO TRAINING DUMMIES! Havent you seen the boss fights? Even the simpliest one?

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I did start up a Bard in ARR and loved it. Being able to dps on the move felt much better to me but the news of Wanderer's Minuet kept me from leveling the Bard. I've stuck to BLM due to inertia, but I think I need to have something else to use for my sanity.

Help.

Help.

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Ninja has a trait that increases your move speed - like having a permanent Bard's Swiftsong.
After playing it, all other classes feel slow and sluggish xd. Running out of AOE's is much easier (and even better with Shukuchi teleport, love it!).

Try it out - I'm loving NIN atm.

Stupid q, wtf is the ninja rabbit?

Its when you mess up your Mudras and you activate a dud Ninjutsu, showing a rabbit dancing on your head.

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Originally Posted by VisRalis

Really? xDD

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...psmiboslrx.jpg

(I'd say Bard & Ninja is easier)

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Idk drg after expansion, but pre expansion it was eaiest. Strict rotation. No procs. No choices or decisions to be made. Was hands down without a doubt the easiest job to play. Any1 who refers to the length of the drg rotation in those days as an indication of difficulty doesn't know drg because it all boiled down to priority in the end.

Bard was harder from a min max perspective I promise you that. Right up to the end of fcob pre echo certain bards kept raising the bar higher and higher. There was even a 560 t11 parse ( where no lame milk strats are possible ). This was from insane overplay of a class. It was kinda hard to overplay drg pre 3.0. im sure a lot of drgs wont agree "my class is hard qq " but w/e.

And yes, obviously, the above is my opinion. Useless and subjective as any other opinion in this thread.

To many abilities bloat all the classes now. I've barely played the game mostly because of this too because I don't want to play something that will cause me to look at my keyboard more then looking at the screen just to remember that I'm actually hitting the right button for the ability.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

To many abilities bloat all the classes now. I've barely played the game mostly because of this too because I don't want to play something that will cause me to look at my keyboard more then looking at the screen just to remember that I'm actually hitting the right button for the ability.

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Practice. Practice. Practice..

I've been 60 for exactly a week and I've spent hours on the dummy committing the DRG rotation to muscle memory. Just cause DPS gets the reputation for being easy don't be that guy. Put the time in and join the rare DPS that actually matter.

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Originally Posted by mirellol

Haven't really heard from MNK's how it plays but I personally feel the easiest is not DRG. Judging from the amount of pained sounds over voice comm I doubt it is BLM either. BRD's got minuet issues. Didn't like MCH at all when trying it out.

I love my DRG but I feel like it is time to also level and gear up the NIN. Just in case. =D

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Careful there. It took years before everyone in FFXI learned that job flocking will alert SE to nerf said class. I have no doubts the same will be the case here.

Here is the order I would rate them: (easiest first)

SMN - altho shift further down for some primals/bosses (reason i put at top is because you can output decent damage without even having played it before, or you have many choices available depending on how the fight is going. its a very versatile role)
BRD - realy your only issue is dont auto-engage before tank does
NIN - this is where it starts to get a little harder
BLM - as OP mentions altho it is still easier than some dps roles
DRG - altho I dont play this I STILL see loldrg dieing so maybe it is actually hard
MNK - because positionals and GL stacks are still way harder than other dps, particularly if your tank has ants in his pants
MCH - because is lacks in dps (unless SE is planning on fixing that)

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

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Someone who mains Bard saying that Bard is harder and saying DRG's "qq".

Yep. Thanks for being incredibly biased.

Of course the classes we main will instantly be the ultimate in complexity and depth to us because we spend the most time with them.

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Moving on, I find Monk to be the most straightforward personally (I used to main it so perhaps it's from familiarity?), though I haven't leveled it past 50, so I'm only comparing it to my other classes at 50. This answer will of course differ for each person, as we each have our own preferences.

Test out the classes yourself to see which you enjoy the most ^^

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Originally Posted by Shori

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As an ex-MNK for most of 2.X I still shake my head at myth of MNK difficulty. They have two extremely flexible combo's, and if you set your bars up correctly the rotation flows so smoothly that it's pretty brain dead honestly.. Flank-Flank-Back, Back-Back-Flank, Flank-Flank-Flank.. etc etc..You always know which positional you're going to land way ahead of time and can plan accordingly.

Now DRG with BotD and the randomness with FnC/WT and how tight Geirskogal makes it.. Yeah, that makes MNK look like a walk in the park.

I have a feeling SE will incorporate a 1 button mudra, that ur avatar just perform the ninjutsu then the mudra, but either way with AC it just made nin life a bit easier. Monk they r back to the 2.0 mnk. I'm sure we will do a patch. Drg beside the randomness of 4th tier WS I think they r still the easiest.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

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I just.. From what do you draw this conclusion about Dragoon? It's literally a 17+ button rotation and with BotD you have a 1-2 second wiggle room if you want to maintain 3 Geriskoguls per minute like you're supposed to. 1-2 seconds is considerably less than the GCD, so that means you have basically zero room for error.

In fact for most of the rotation you need to hit 2 oGCD's per GCD in order to not fall behind. On top of that if you miss Fang and Claws or Wheeling Thrust positional your lose 190 potency. So yeah.. Mistime a combo? Drop BotD. Mistime your Geirskogul. Drop BotD. Disconnect from the boss for any amount of time. Drop BotD...

Oh and BotD is a 60s CD. It only takes MNK 22.5 seconds to reach GL3 after dropping. It's not even a comparison.

Have you even played Dragoon at 60?

U can't argue game mechanics since everyone have to deal with that. It can be said the same thing about ninja. Boss jump or mob dies before getting ur AC off well there goes ur huton, ohh great mudra lag. All the things u mention about ur play time with drg basickly sums it to one game mechanics. Everyone has to deal with with it not just drg. And no my drg is only 50 heack my main which is mnk is only 53. And that sure has change the most for PB opening. Drg same opening except u have more things to weave in between. Having more button to to press does not equal hard.

A lot of people in this thread keep propagating this idea that black Mage plays largely the same as it did in 2.xx and has largely the same rotation.

This is incorrect. Black mages now have to ma

Ugh, stupid smartphone posting before I'm done typing, and not having an edit post button on the mobile version of the site.

Anyways apologies for the double post but this it is incorrect to assume or state BLMs have a similar rotation as in 2.xx.

In short we now have to manage a buff with a counter similar to how a monk must keep up greased lightning on top of astral fire and umbral ice and then our highest potency attack is gated behind both of these buffs being up at the same time, both which run on different timers. The rotation has changed even when acting as a turret on a dummy but even having to move slightly it changes a great deal as even one second of lost time on one of our traits can result in losing access to cast our highest potency spell.

I haven't played enough of the other DPS roles to make a judgement on which is easiest but I don't think it's black Mage at the moment.

Bard is easiest IMO.

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

U can't argue game mechanics since everyone have to deal with that. It can be said the same thing about ninja. Boss jump or mob dies before getting ur AC off well there goes ur huton, ohh great mudra lag. All the things u mention about ur play time with drg basickly sums it to one game mechanics. Everyone has to deal with with it not just drg. And no my drg is only 50 heack my main which is mnk is only 53. And that sure has change the most for PB opening. Drg same opening except u have more things to weave in between. Having more button to to press does not equal hard.

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What people are trying to explain is that Huton and GL have several seconds of leeway to handle mechanics, BotD has *1*, 2 if you're packing a GCD that is less than 2.40 seconds. Neither MNK or NIN has to expend the duration of their buff intelligently to maximize DPS, they just have to keep it up. Barring that yeah, lots of buttons to push, positionals, procs, dealing with mechanics, yes, all jobs have that. But none of them have 600 potency riding on their ability to properly sacrifice uptime of their buffs. That is unique to DRG and in the extremely dodge-heavy/mechanic-heavy HW content it is extremely difficult.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

What people are trying to explain is that Huton and GL have several seconds of leeway to handle mechanics, BotD has *1*, 2 if you're packing a GCD that is less than 2.40 seconds. Neither MNK or NIN has to expend the duration of their buff intelligently to maximize DPS, they just have to keep it up. Barring that yeah, lots of buttons to push, positionals, procs, dealing with mechanics, yes, all jobs have that. But none of them have 600 potency riding on their ability to properly sacrifice uptime of their buffs. That is unique to DRG and in the extremely dodge-heavy/mechanic-heavy HW content it is extremely difficult.

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This.

Described very elegantly I might add, but this 100%.

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Originally Posted by VisRalis

Really? xDD

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62...psmiboslrx.jpg

(I'd say Bard & Ninja is easier)

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This is such a dumb statement. The DRG rotation was always "long", but that didn't make it complicated whatsoever. At the end of the day it was CT-FT-FT combo's on repeat with HT and Ph alternating in between. The only thing that changed in the new patch is a 4th hit with a positional and Geirskogul. Congrats, you finally have to think about what you're doing...

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Originally Posted by Humorless

This is such a dumb statement. The DRG rotation was always "long", but that didn't make it complicated whatsoever. At the end of the day it was CT-FT-FT combo's on repeat with HT and Ph alternating in between. The only thing that changed in the new patch is a 4th hit with a positional and Geirskogul. Congrats, you finally have to think about what you're doing...

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Wow.. and other jobs do? MNK is easily as brain dead Flank-Flank-Back, Back-Back-Flank, Flank-Flank-Flank repeat?
NIN had their opener and then just keep up Huton?
Black Mage 4 F1's per Astral phase, fire weave appropriately?
BRD arguably the easiest class in the game.

Where does this vitriol come from? Show me concrete proof that any DPS has more to juggle right now than DRG. Heck, NIN doesn't even need to watch Huton anymore :P

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

What people are trying to explain is that Huton and GL have several seconds of leeway to handle mechanics, BotD has *1*, 2 if you're packing a GCD that is less than 2.40 seconds. Neither MNK or NIN has to expend the duration of their buff intelligently to maximize DPS, they just have to keep it up. Barring that yeah, lots of buttons to push, positionals, procs, dealing with mechanics, yes, all jobs have that. But none of them have 600 potency riding on their ability to properly sacrifice uptime of their buffs. That is unique to DRG and in the extremely dodge-heavy/mechanic-heavy HW content it is extremely difficult.

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Clearly just a DRG trying to make his job sound difficult, but I suggest you try playing the new monk before talking. GL3 upkeep is significantly more difficult due to the instant application and we don't even get to relax during downtime. With a low GCD and constant positionals MNK is still a far more active job.

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Originally Posted by FreyrPrime

Heck, NIN doesn't even need to watch Huton anymore :P

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Wrong, we do have to watch huton, we have to interrupt or normal dps rotation to include the new armor crush rotation to refresh Huton for 30 seconds. If not done well, one of our dots, or our slashing debuff will fall off the enemy, resulting in a DPS loss.

Furthermore, if you're not watching Huton, and it falls off and you dont have Jutsu up, your DPS plummets. Just like losing GL with a monk, we have to wait several seconds before we can get it back.

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Originally Posted by Humorless

Clearly just a DRG trying to make his job sound difficult, but I suggest you try playing the new monk before talking. GL3 upkeep is significantly more difficult due to the instant application and we don't even get to relax during downtime. With a low GCD and constant positionals MNK is still a far more active job.

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When you Dragon Kick, or Boot Shine, or True Strike, or ANY of your positionals you know WELL in advance where you need to be and can adjust accordingly. In the event that you have to use one of them outside of their requirement you don't lose 190 potency, AND it's not random. You don't finish your combo and then suddenly realize you need to be at the back of the boss WHILE keeping track of BotD to make sure you can Geirskogul.

It's not even comparable. Monks have less buttons to hit, GL3 still only takes 22.5 seconds to apply (BotD has a CD of 60s), and their positionals arent completely neutered when they're forced out of position.

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Originally Posted by Humorless

With a low GCD and constant positionals MNK is still a far more active job.

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Low GCD means more Greased Lightning leeway. Maximizing BotD uptime and Gierkogul usage has a literal 1-2 second margin of error.

Constant positionals that aren't random procs or inhibited by animation locks that are absolutely required to be used to maintain maximum DPS.

Try again.