Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

It actually takes quite a bit of time to go through the entire MSQ at this point. Even more so if you were to include queuing times.

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Not nearly as horribly time consuming as some people try to make it out to be though. The basic quests themselves take a trivial amount of time. The only time consuming portions of the MSQ are the trials and dungeons, and fortunately for the player-base there are not that many of them that are required.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Whoa Nelly, I was not the one who began referencing FF11. Nor was I whining about how it will be in HW. Direct your 'tude to where it is more constructive, thank you very much.

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I'm sorry, my brain hurts too much right now because people can't seem to think, and I seem to lack reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by Parryacg

I'm sorry, my brain hurts too much right now because people can't seem to think, and I seem to lack reading comprehension.

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May I offer a cup of cocoa to appease the Primal of Lalafells? /offers cocoa.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

May I offer a cup of cocoa to appease the Primal of Lalafells? /offers cocoa.

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I am pleased with this. Have my very first thumbs up on the forums.

nah, why would you want RMT bot to invade Ishgard ? if there are BOT in ishgard in the future, hopefully only player BOT

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

I doubt botters will be hindered as much as new players will be by this.

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Sadly but no, new player can do MSQ while lvl up their char to 50. Full MSQ from 2.0 to now take around 6h if you skip every CS and every dialog (time depend on your queue for dungeon)

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Originally Posted by AriaFae

I just bought this game about a month ago, I've enjoyed the MSQ for the most part. Finding out every single thing in the game was gated behind them was kind of a shock, since I wasn't really aware of that coming into it. I tried to get my friend to play, but when he realised he couldn't do dungeons without doing the MSQ he was put off buying the game.

I get that the story is important, but gating a lot of the content behind quests some people might not really enjoy grinding through is kind of silly if you ask me.

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The flipside being that there are a lot of people who like it this way. I really enjoy the set up. Its telling the story of the gowth of your character this way. I probably wouldn't still be playing if it was set up that you could just fate grind and do everything right away. You can't make everyone happy and that means some games are not for some people.

Most if not all the arguments for removing the gating rely on the assumption that all new players want to do new content asap.

Or, put differently, the arguments assume that those kind of players are part of the target market for this game.

And the official decision to gate the expansion content probably is the answer.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

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I think it is also because the game really begins at lvl 50, so it is only logical for them to enforce players to go through main story. With all the quests after 2.0 story, it is pretty much a walk for them to 60.

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Originally Posted by Parryacg

It still doesn't matter. FF11 =/= FF14 and FF14=/= FF11.

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I used FF11 as an example because it's something a large percentage of people here have been exposed to. I could use other examples if you'd like...

You didn't need to finish Naxx40 to go to Outland
You didn't need to finish Sunwell to go to Northrend

Both of those would've been considered expansion completion in WoW.

You didn't need to finish your class storyline to go to Makeb in SWTOR
You didn't need to finish whatever the final raid ended up being in Rift to access Storm Legion.

What I'm saying is this is an MMO standard. Completion of the previous expansion's content is not normally required to access the next one, only the appropriate character level.

As for some of the other baseless assumptions people have tossed at me... (not from you)

I finished the 2.55 story the day it was released. I'm ready to go. I'm not raising this concern because I won't be able to access HW. I'm raising it because selling an expansion isn't supposed to work like this.

I also don't want free gear. I'm not sure why this always gets thrown in. It doesn't even seem to matter what the subject is. Weird.

I never said, even once, that a brand new player should be able to do the HW story without being the proper level. That would clearly be ridiculous. But being able to access the area and having access to the new jobs (specifically) is a pretty standard thing for an MMO expansion regardless of prior progression.

As someone pointed out, starting the Rise of the Zilart story required completion of the base FFXI story. That's true, and I'd forgotten about that. The fact is though, that was 12(?) years ago and MMOs have changed in the meantime. And again I'm not even talking about the HW story content. I'm talking about the areas.

Seriously? I'd say allow it, there's no reason why an MMO should gate literally everything behind the entire 2.x series story (And probably the 2.x + 3.x story with the 4.x expansions.. And then the 2.x + 3.x + 4.x for the 5.x expansion because that's such a great idea right?)



To the folks saying "The plot says Ishgard doesn't want new people in Ishgard" - The plot of FFXIV is also constructed around the PC being accused of lots of stuff ousting them from Ul'dah. It's literally a plot that only works with one person in mind while playing the game. If "Plot says only those who go through 2.55 can go to Ishgard" The plot says the PC (Read one person) is allowed into Ishgard because that one person was being so helpful from the events of the recent few patches. So, why are multiple people (Read thousands) allowed whenever the plot is meant only for one person? If you're going with "Plot says warrior of light only not Disciple of hand of light!" then you must acknowledge it makes no sense for Ishgard to allow every PC into the game. Maybe make it for someone with a level 50 crafting ability to go through a small quest where you make some high level stuff for Ishgard as a way to allow them into the city, like "Ishgard is in desperate need of more supplies! PC! Make so many of X, Y, and Z, so you can get a work visa and be allowed into the city".

To the folks saying "Crafting is a side thing, this is a combat game!" - Crafting is as important as someone makes it. I know a good bit of people who spend all their time in this game just crafting, or at least just playing the game til they can craft, no grinding for Tomestones or ponies, no daily duty finder roulette, none of that. To them, Combat is just a side thing til they can safely go around and gather their various crafting materials. So, it's important to some people, why not make some dumb excuse to allow DoH/DoL into Ishgard? It's not cheapening your experience.

I can't remember everyone's responses to why they shouldn't do what the OP is suggestion, but still, it's such a bad idea to literally gate everything behind the entire 2.x series of plot with the exception of the new race (And that's one thing that also doesn't make sense in terms of the story). Heck, new players can't even step foot into Ishgard and look at all the new stuff they've got to look forward to. Considering someone payed 40 dollars (In the US anyways) to have access to the content, there's no good reason why they shouldn't at least be allowed to step through the gates. Sure gate story quests behind progressing through the story, that actually makes sense, but not the entire region.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

As someone pointed out, starting the Rise of the Zilart story required completion of the base FFXI story. That's true, and I'd forgotten about that. The fact is though, that was 12(?) years ago and MMOs have changed in the meantime. And again I'm not even talking about the HW story content. I'm talking about the areas.

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And it doesn't change the fact now. It's gated behind 2.55, it's going to stay that way.

Remember; Heavensward's story [continues] where 2.55 left off. This makes it an expansion in the literal sense, not just "oh, have a new story in the expansion area with all your old stuff and character(s)".

With that said, I'm glad it's gated behind 2.55. What I'm not glad about is Vishnap getting nerfed (two patches ago?) because people are bad and can't learn to be at least mildly competent.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

As someone pointed out, starting the Rise of the Zilart story required completion of the base FFXI story. That's true, and I'd forgotten about that. The fact is though, that was 12(?) years ago and MMOs have changed in the meantime. And again I'm not even talking about the HW story content. I'm talking about the areas.

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Rise of the Zilart expansion also came out with FFXI when it came out in America. It was also the only instance in FFXI that required you to be a certain rank (and level?) to start that storyline. Chains of Promathia, Treasure's of Aht Urghan, Wings of the Goddess and Seekers of Adoulin had none of this.

I also believe you could unlock the RotZ Jobs before starting the RotZ Missions. You could enter Norg without beating the Shadow Lord first, right?

I still feel that new players should be allowed to unlock the new Jobs when they hit level 30 and have another class at 15. Let them experience the MSQ as a DRK, AST or MCH, without having to get one Job to 50 and i90 first.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

May I offer a cup of cocoa to appease the Primal of Lalafells? /offers cocoa.

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Her name is Shantotto, isn't it?

;)

If you want to play a sandbox and ignore the game's main scenario, go play a sandbox game. Thousands of people have played this game and dealt with the content being gated and I'm fairly sure none of the people I've played with have expressed much beyond minor annoyance. If they're that turned off having to do a questline to access the expansion content, clearly this isn't the game for them. Just because it's an MMO doesn't mean it has to cater to the whims of every single prospective player. I'm actually glad Yoshi is sticking to his guns here.

Well yeah. Can't enter Ishgard unless you finish 2.55. Why not?
But at least allow players to unlock DRK, AST and MCH when they hit level 30 and 15 on specific Classes. If new players are allowed to enter the other new zones, then the new Jobs could be based in different areas, instead of just in Ishgard. AST could be at some random Astrologian observatory, MCH could temporarily be in Limsa and DRK... unsure, honestly.

The bot thing is funny. I was afk gathering twin thread while watching tv. Over the course of 8 hours 30 bots did the MSQ out by the Sylphs. They have to become visible to do the dance emote. But before and after they just teleport(position hack) from NPC to NPC. They have preformed parties. So they never wait in que. Probably teleport(position hack) dungeons. The few gates in MSQ are probably nothing if you don't have to move or get hit.

Now as much as I think the MSQ requirement is a bad idea. The fact that they are removing level sync, full party requirement, greatly increasing quest reward, and cahnging/ adding gear rewards to MSQ. It is acceptable. The main annoyance will be the mind numnbing walking around from npc to npc. But someone said we are getting a mount speed buff as well

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I used FF11 as an example because it's something a large percentage of people here have been exposed to. I could use other examples if you'd like...

You didn't need to finish Naxx40 to go to Outland
You didn't need to finish Sunwell to go to Northrend

Both of those would've been considered expansion completion in WoW.

You didn't need to finish your class storyline to go to Makeb in SWTOR
You didn't need to finish whatever the final raid ended up being in Rift to access Storm Legion.

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Three of these examples don't even make sense, because you're comparing the completion of high end raids to the completion of a story. One requires an organized raid while the other is mostly done solo (with the instanced parts easily done through the duty finder)

''You didn't have to finish x raid to go the the next expansion'' is akin to saying ''You don't have to finish the Final Coil of Bahamut to go to Ishgard.''

How about this: You didn't need to beat Shadow Lord to unlock Dragoon (expansion Job).

The problem with using WoW. Is that... where is the WoW story? Not too prevalent back before Wrath of the Lich King. And speaking of... Need to have a lvl 55 class to unlock Death Knight. Man how many people cried about that one?

You didn't, but if you weren't already level 40+ yourself you'd need some 50-75 friends to go farm your keys for you in order to unlock your airship pass. Ideally a 75 TH4(later TH6+) THF because the drop rates were horrible.

You also DID have to be level 30 to unlock any advanced jobs, and most people only bothered going to Kazham before that because of the parties right outside the gate zones.

FFXIV is very story heavy, it wouldn't make any sense to be able to enter Ishgard before you finish the main story. It's like getting Fallout 3, and expecting to be able to play the Broken Steel expansion without completing the main story.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

This will only benefit the game, newcomers, & recent players. Win-win-win.

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I'm sorry, but the only people this will *actually* benefit is the gilsellers.

<No thank you.>

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

FFXIV is very story heavy, it wouldn't make any sense to be able to enter Ishgard before you finish the main story. It's like getting Fallout 3, and expecting to be able to play the Broken Steel expansion without completing the main story.

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It wouldn't make sense for you to have a Raen Au Ra in Eorzea without starting at 2.2, yet that's a thing.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

It wouldn't make sense for you to have a Raen Au Ra in Eorzea without starting at 2.2, yet that's a thing.

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Additionally I can be a rogue on a new character that hasn't progressed to the part of the story where Yugiri teaches people to be rogues.

She makes a big deal about sharing her knowledge with the people of Eorzea, yet somehow I can become one "before" she ever arrives on Eorzean shores.

Somehow people are fine with this being a huge hole in the plot as well as the sudden introduction of Au Ra, but are against similar access to DRK, AST, and MCH.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

There's a really easy solution to that problem. Don't play alts. There's no need to play one so anything you don't enjoy as a result of playing an alt is something you're forcing on yourself, it's not the game's fault.

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Considering I *have* completed the story line on 3 of my 8 characters to 2.55.... ;P I have absolutely *no* issue with the way it it right now.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Additionally I can be a rogue on a new character that hasn't progressed to the part of the story where Yugiri teaches people to be rogues.

She makes a big deal about sharing her knowledge with the people of Eorzea, yet somehow I can become one "before" she ever arrives on Eorzean shores.

Somehow people are fine with this being a huge hole in the plot as well as the sudden introduction of Au Ra, but are against similar access to DRK, AST, and MCH.

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Because those two things aren't related. Dark Knights come from within Ishgard, Astrologians come from Sharlayan, Machinists are a recent "invention" within Ishgard. Rogues already existed before Yugiri came. The art of ninjutsu was contributed by the Doman peoples, not necessarily Yugiri by herself.

The Au Ra thing is similar to

the fact that Nanamo was killed in the 2.55 quests, but if you do the Level 50 Culinarian quests, you can still see her alive and well.

Just use suspension of disbelief or something.

no please no! enough of this beat the main story and thats it!

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Additionally I can be a rogue on a new character that hasn't progressed to the part of the story where Yugiri teaches people to be rogues.

She makes a big deal about sharing her knowledge with the people of Eorzea, yet somehow I can become one "before" she ever arrives on Eorzean shores.

Somehow people are fine with this being a huge hole in the plot as well as the sudden introduction of Au Ra, but are against similar access to DRK, AST, and MCH.

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Because if you bothered to read the story, rogues already existed long before Yugiri, and Thancred was/is one of them. She's simply offering to share her knowledge and skill to the player.

Pheraps they'll open up in the future, as they are going to introduce Ishgard housing as well. Maybe near future. Though for now at least it works fine on the money side as well: "Look how marvellous things of desire we offer, so many people are going to enjoy it.. you may happen to want it too? It's easy, pay at least a month subscription and you can have it!". I think they are right if they think this. If you're not a new player then go and get the MSQ done already.

No, story makes sense as it is.

No, RMT gate is awesome.

No, you can't START as a DoH / DoL, levelling a combat class is already required.

So, no. No Ishgard unless you finish the story. Nooope.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

You also DID have to be level 30 to unlock any advanced jobs, and most people only bothered going to Kazham before that because of the parties right outside the gate zones.

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And the level 30 part is fine. I'm suggesting that the requirement for unlocking AST, MCH and DRK be the usual: Level 30 and Level 15 Class as prerequisites. Just have the Job Quest starters be in the new open field zones (if they're not also locked like Ishgard). If people have beaten the 2.55 story, then the Job Quests will start and remain in Ishgard. If not, then the newbies will need to step into dangerous territory to unlock the new Jobs (and subsequent quests). It's just a thought so that newbies can play as a MCH while the DRK and AST players are still levelling them up, so the queue times won't be obnoxious.

You know... I don't think RMT is a good excuse to justify the removal of the MSQ restriction.

It is square enixs responsibility to deal with the bots and they should be actively working towards fighting them. If they need to have a bigger team, then do so. I don't think 3 people is enough and the way they have handled RMT up till now has been depressing. Still getting whispers and friend requests all the time (forcing people to use busy status)

I mean, if people want the MSQ restriction just for RMT, all that tells me is that you lack faith in square dealing with them directly and putting in actual effort to remove them.

As far as MSQ restriction goes, i am neither in favor of it or against it. It does suck for all my alts though =x

For new players that you are posting for, all of the 2.x content will be new to them anyways. So try and see it from that viewpoint, not as repeating the same content.

This is not WoW...or any other game you may want to try to compare it to.

This is the Final Fantasy franchise. That is just how it is done. If that design style is not for you, then this game may not be for you. The door to those other games is that way -->

So long, and thanks for the fish!

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Originally Posted by Raist

The door to those other games is that way -->

So long, and thanks for the fish!

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https://j19tisj53q5p38.dayrecdn.net/...r_facepalm.png

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Because if you bothered to read the story, rogues already existed long before Yugiri, and Thancred was/is one of them. She's simply offering to share her knowledge and skill to the player.

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Rogues did, but NIN didn't, yet NIN is avaliable for those who haven't met Yugiri. The Raen live in Doma and didn't leave Doma til it was wrecked post 2.0, even then, Yugiri's whole "I wear a mask because I don't want everyone freaking out about how I look!" to the Au Ra PC makes perfect sense.

The Culinarian quests only make sense if you think of the 2.0 quests (Such as the level 50 CUL one) having taken place before 2.55's story.

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Originally Posted by Raist

This is the Final Fantasy franchise. That is just how it is done. If that design style is not for you, then this game may not be for you. The door to those other games is that way -->

So long, and thanks for the fish!

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Just like in Rise of the Zilart, you needed to finish the main story and have max level before you can access any expansion content including new jobs?

It was a poor choice, and it won't be repeated. But it's done, and they can't get around it at this point. The 2.0 story line will be nerfed down, and getting into Ishgard will be easier for newbies than it was for us.

The RMT roadblock is a joke to anyone who has leveled their DoL jobs. Waiting for Gold Ore to pop, we've all seen the AFK RMT army going into the BLM job quests. Content is pretty easy for a bot that can use ranged attack and position hacks to be invincible.

Why do people keep bringing up the Au'ra thing? Time and time again we've mentioned that you are not 'this or that' race. You are the Warrior of Light. Save random tidbits of NPC dialogue in towns, the MSQ doesn't acknowledge your race at all. Just your gender at best. You can consider this a 'plot hole' if you want, but to the cast, you're just a 'body of light' if that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Raist

This is not WoW...or any other game you may want to try to compare it to.

This is the Final Fantasy franchise. That is just how it is done. If that design style is not for you, then this game may not be for you. The door to those other games is that way -->

So long, and thanks for the fish!

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It's still an MMO, so gameplay should technically take a front seat, or at least be sitting with plot (FFXI balanced this out by letting you unlock Jobs before even starting the expansions storyline). By the way and I said this in another thread: an MMO community should never tell people to leave. The only time you ever tell someone to leave is if they have no interest in the game whatsoever and only after you try to reel them in.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Just like in Rise of the Zilart, you needed to finish the main story and have max level before you can access any expansion content including new jobs?

It was a poor choice, and it won't be repeated. But it's done, and they can't get around it at this point. The 2.0 story line will be nerfed down, and getting into Ishgard will be easier for newbies than it was for us.

The RMT roadblock is a joke to anyone who has leveled their DoL jobs. Waiting for Gold Ore to pop, we've all seen the AFK RMT army going into the BLM job quests. Content is pretty easy for a bot that can use ranged attack and position hacks to be invincible.

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Guess you weren't there when they nerfed all that older content so people could rush through it all...I remember trio-ing the Airship with pet jobs for people....duoing Odin/Alex, nearly Duoing Lillith on our first try, then a BLM friend needed her fight and we took her out with just 3 people.

Yes... all of this has been done before, and it will all be done again.