Steps of Faith needs an ilevel raise...

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Nope, we still have the echo. What we lost was the blessing of light (circle thing with the crystals) because it was draining/killing hydaelyn. The japanese text says that more clearly than the english one.

Here's a better (fan made) translation of the dialogue
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ersus_english/

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Ok, that makes it more clear there. Still doesn't explain why we couldn't hear her though, when we always heard her the same time as Minfilia before. Either way with this, echo has only ever been in the Hard Mode Primal story fights, so wouldn't be added anyway.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

Still doesn't explain why we couldn't hear her though, when we always heard her the same time as Minfilia before. Either way with this, echo has only ever been in the Hard Mode Primal story fights, so wouldn't be added anyway.

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She's too weak to talk with us (and probably corrupted by zodiark like 2.0 final cutscene shows) and echo was added to every coil turn and fcob in the future. Considering fcob came out when we lost our blessing of light, there is no reason for it to not be added to SoF.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

She's too weak to talk with us (and probably corrupted by zodiark like 2.0 final cutscene shows) and echo was added to every coil turn and fcob in the future. Considering fcob came out when we lost our blessing of light, there is no reason for it to not be added to SoF.

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True, but time line wise, I've always seen the FCoB done before that, but then it's never been official when the coils took place. The echo was never in the normal modes of the primals, Cape or Chrysalis, so I still don't see it happening.

Other than for the tanks and healers, item level is largely irrelevant in Steps of Faith as almost all of the damage done comes from the cannons, dragon-killer and the gunpowder at the end. Every failed attempt I have witnessed at that fight was the result of people not using the cannons correctly, or failing to fire the dragon-killer. Increasing the item level requirement of the fight will NOT suddenly make the players more intelligent. Unfortunately we just have to accept the fact that a very large majority of the people playing this game either cannot read at all or are complete imbeciles.

The reason this has only now proven such an issue is because up until now we've never had a main scenario battle that actually took any skill or coordination. Hopefully more content going forward will require the same degree of coordination as the new trial. Everyone that has had an easy ride so far might have to actually start doing something to make any progress.

The only real time to target anything with melee is to finish the last or remaining add/s when the boss is attacking the barrier or the boss when all adds are dead.. Other than that most of the adds them selves are the dungeon bosses. The cannons make up for the ilevel and damage. Done right, the adds should be/nearly dead by each barrier due to cannon fire, and good tanks and cannons will keep them from running up the tower.

90 ilevel is fine. Don't need to increase it. It can be done.

I say the problem is with the strategy. People see the initial video that explain the mechanics, then they decide to follow it instead of thinking ways around it. I wrote an alternate strategy for this trial. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rnate-Strategy While there are many skeptics, this strategy works wonders and every person I have done this trial with after teaching them this, they have agreed that the trial should have been done this way instead of the old ways.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

The ilvl 90 person has a significant disadvantage in health which is the biggest issue. I see most people just getting one shotted when I survive with 20% health and get healed. Its not just DPS.

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Doesn't matter if the healers wont take off the poison stacks.

You would think that giving players less buttons to press would make it easier for them. The NPCs directly talk to you during the fight as well - giving you instructions throughout the fight. I really question whether the players are actually failing the DPS check, or the I'm-too-lazy-to-read-and-do-mechanics-so-screw-you-and-let-me-pewpew check. ಠ_ಠ

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

You would think that giving players less buttons to press would make it easier for them. The NPCs directly talk to you during the fight as well - giving you instructions throughout the fight. I really question whether the players are actually failing the DPS check, or the I'm-too-lazy-to-read-and-do-mechanics-screw-you-let-me-pewpew check. ಠ_ಠ

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My money is on the mechanics. Too many runs where they didn't use snares or Dragonkiller like they should.

This fight is actually quite easy as long as the healers and tanks know what to do.

One super helpful tip is for the tank to stack all the adds on top of the cannon when Vishap does his sideways swipe. The cannon will explode and likely finish off whatever the cannons couldn't quite kill.

Don't let that Dreadwyrm fool you. Seen plenty a Final Witness suck at SoF.

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Originally Posted by KuroganeAre

Don't let that Dreadwyrm fool you. Seen plenty a Final Witness suck at SoF.

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You know, they could just be running it blind - playing catch-up beacuse they've been neglecting the MSQ. I know a few people that are working in T13, yet haven't touched the Chrysalis.

I used to think Steps of Faith was difficult, until I took on a new perspective.

That was only Vishap.

Nidhogg's on his way.

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

I used to think Steps of Faith was difficult, until I took on a new perspective.

That was only Vishap.

Nidhogg's on his way.

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I'd be more scared if yiazmat is part of the 7 dragon group

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Things

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There are still people not capable of clearing Titan Ex even with ilvls at 130. Now, there are a few factors to keep in mind with Steps of Faith. Steps of Faith is more about communication and teamwork. In fact if done right Steps can and is solo healed/tanked meaning very little damage is coming in to the team. The point is ilvl has little to do with it. This game is designed around not failing to dodge/avoid instant kill mechanics. You can focus on ilvl all you want but it is irrelevant. Case in point people with an ilvl of 130 still are unable to clear places such as T5 or any of the Primal ex fights.

Oh wow this is still a topic. The answer is no. It will receive some mechanic nerf in the near future probably but that's it. Eventually the players who Know the fight will out weigh the new and this will be another mindless zzzz encounter.

This trial isn't even about ilvl. Cannons are the main DPS, and your people on them could be ilvl 1 and you'd still win. I don't know why people don't get that.

I did the fight the day it came out and after two hours of failed attempts, i spoke up and suggested I and another tank do the cannons. I also volunteered to do the dragonkiller missles and had someone else run the cannon/snares, because other people suck at using the dragonkiller missles. Long after I got my clear, I still go into the encounter and had a DPS point blank tell me that he doesn't care if I know a fight back to front, WHM is HPS bot onry(paraphrasing). Maybe if most DPS weren't tunnel vision players maybe I wouldn't have to take up the slack for them. But 90% of DPS are goons that expect people to
do the thinking for them.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It is a teamwork fight but having that gear means you have some idea of how to play your class, what moves you can use and you have done the dungeons where all those dragons strats COME from.

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Increasing ilevel will still not help.
What can help a little is making Stone Vigil (hard) a requirement for it. It will teach people that the turtles are stunnabe and that you should use cannons if there are cannons to use.

Every time I see a Steps of Faith is too hard thread popup I die a little inside. This is a cold hard reminder that game devs are FORBIDDEN to design content that makes a player think even if the thought process involved is very small and insignificant.

Gamers who don't want to think are destroying the industry because game devs can't get creative with their gameplay designs due to player brain capacity limitations. I'm sick of this crap.

I think the issue is accessability. new players who have to go through steps of faith to get to heavensward content have to achieve the required ilvl to get it done. You dont want to place so high an ilvl on it that it becomes difficult for new players to get a story mode fight done and be walled in from heavensward. If anything they need to bring down the stats of the mobs in the dungeon or lower/make easier something in the dungeon if your trying to make it easier not jack up the ilvl.

*sigh*

LEARN THE MECHANICS. ilvl has NOTHING to do with this encounter. It can be done with 1 Tank and 1 Healer when you know what you are doing, its so SIMPLE. The Cannons are EVERYTHING.

I cry to think that threads like this are going to dumb down future content

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Originally Posted by Kurenai_Night

I think the issue is accessability. new players who have to go through steps of faith to get to heavensward content have to achieve the required ilvl to get it done. You dont want to place so high an ilvl on it that it becomes difficult for new players to get a story mode fight done and be walled in from heavensward. If anything they need to bring down the stats of the mobs in the dungeon or lower/make easier something in the dungeon if your trying to make it easier not jack up the ilvl.

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i90 is stupidly easy to obtain by that point in the story, and you really do not need anything more, you really don't even need that much of an ilevel unless you're the add holding tank. The stats of the mobs are all decent, the cannons take care of them with ease.

The OP though has already fled the scene, and people are just repeating what's been said 20 times in the thread. Time to let it die until someone else makes a new thread for it.

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Originally Posted by Kurenai_Night

I think the issue is accessability. new players who have to go through steps of faith to get to heavensward content have to achieve the required ilvl to get it done. You dont want to place so high an ilvl on it that it becomes difficult for new players to get a story mode fight done and be walled in from heavensward. If anything they need to bring down the stats of the mobs in the dungeon or lower/make easier something in the dungeon if your trying to make it easier not jack up the ilvl.

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This is exactly opposite of what OP is saying, and guess what? Most of us will disagree with both suggestions.

The difficulty is on par with ilvl, as it should be. The real problem is some people being unable to understand that tank & spank doesn't work here, REGARDLESS of the ilevel.

I hope that they leave it and that story encounters progress in difficulty as we get into 3.0.... Seriously this game does not force anyone to learn how to play, it's faceroll and if you can't faceroll cry for better gear or a nerf so that you can faceroll.

But this isn't an individual player problem, this is a community problem that has developed because the game as a whole is far to easy and people have become complacent with dropping out in hopes that the next round brings in someone to carry them.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

Every time I see a Steps of Faith is too hard thread popup I die a little inside. This is a cold hard reminder that game devs are FORBIDDEN to design content that makes a player think even if the thought process involved is very small and insignificant.

Gamers who don't want to think are destroying the industry because game devs can't get creative with their gameplay designs due to player brain capacity limitations. I'm sick of this crap.

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Really? I thought cooperate greed and shoddy business practices were the leading cause of the industry "failing"

It's not the difficulty per se, it's that it requires much, much more time, effort and coordination than anything else in the Trials Roulette pool, the rewards aren't nearly enough to make it worth the effort, and as a result people are starting to avoid Trials Roulette like the plague. Which causes its own problem in terms of dragging the experience level of people still doing it down, which makes it even harder for new people to get in to the damn thing in the first place, which means more people have more negative experiences and decide it's too hard and overtuned, and so on.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Really? I thought cooperate greed and shoddy business practices were the leading cause of the industry "failing"

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Well there are many causes I only took this moment to express my disappointment at this particular issue. I have actually developed 2 web player games and have seen first hand what it's like trying to design fun gameplay to an audience of buffoons. It's very challenging and dumbing down is a necessity. Depending on your audience the dumbing down process may have to go so far that you end up with the most boring game ever that they all somehow enjoy while you hate that you even developed it.

Point is, SoF is easy mechanically and if everyone is assigned a role and told how to do it, only the truly daft should have a problem dealing with it. The fact these threads keep popping up and my friends stopped doing trial roulettes means that duty findering SoF right now is full of drug addicts with decaying brains.

I never used the word "failing". Failing would mean there's no profit to be made at all in game developing AND would imply a decline in gamers, but games are currently in high demand and so many people game now a days so it isn't 'failing'. I only stated a decline relating to game quality and players unable to think is actually one of these factors.

Steps of Faith is easy. People do it in DF instead if using friends and party finder to make it easier for them and that is no ones fault other then their own. Yes, you can win in DF. No it probably isn't the easiest though.

I enjoyed Steps and it was an interesting and different encounter. It is the last story "raid" battle of the entire first main story quest, it is supposed to feel a little tough in my eyes. Did you really want this "big encounter" battle to be you just go in smack down dragon quick and be done?

Again, the fight itself isn't hard, it's the people's lack of ability that makes it hard.

It doesn't matter what item level you gate it behind, if people are bad, there's going to be a wipe. No exceptions.

You know what my first time in Steps of Faith was? Half the people leave without so much as saying anything before we even started.

Second time we got the clear after losing the first attempt.

If you refuse to think and learn the mechanics, then of course you're going to suck. You know what Coil 1's base item level is? i80 and without echo it's more difficult than Steps of Faith.

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

*sigh*

LEARN THE MECHANICS. ilvl has NOTHING to do with this encounter. It can be done with 1 Tank and 1 Healer when you know what you are doing, its so SIMPLE. The Cannons are EVERYTHING.

I cry to think that threads like this are going to dumb down future content

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This.
Ooooh well though, because people who cry the loudest gets heard, they come here do that and then content gets the nerf.
Then proceed to hoot and holler because we don't have enough hard content and here we are today...
See Pharos and AKNM for hard dungeons outside Coil/Primal for examples...They were tough pre-nerf but I didn't get to so Pharos sadly.
Don't worry because they'll nerf this too because it's gated of HW. They'll nerf it to the ground so people can DPS race it. Might as well, people don't wanna
read/learn anything if it ain't a speed run. I just want harder content outside Primal and Coils. Or just remove the trial entirely.
Just hate when we finally get a good dungeon and people scream "IT'S TOO MUCH!" and it gets the eventual nerf bat.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Hint: Your not suppose to get hit by the AOEs. It's called dodging lmao.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

With low DPS the mobs do aoes that cannot be dodged. They are simply not killed fast enough.

You have to realize low dps means adds are still alive and stacking up. Those turtles big aoes are so large you can't dodge them.

Since the adds are still alive, the low dps has to focus on those and by the time it gets to the end the mob has 30% health left with no cannons.

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You can dodge MOST of aoes, even with "low dps". Zoom out as much as you can. Helps too if tanks stack mobs up so people on cannons can dps them and in that way help dps.

Doesn't need ilvl raise, just needs more patience from people and willing to learn from mistakes and correct them.

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Originally Posted by ZemusM

*sigh*

LEARN THE MECHANICS. ilvl has NOTHING to do with this encounter. It can be done with 1 Tank and 1 Healer when you know what you are doing, its so SIMPLE. The Cannons are EVERYTHING.

I cry to think that threads like this are going to dumb down future content

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yeah , for a trial that is a bit different , while i dont like using cannons and what not , this trial at least bring something new and isnt the old , boss > adds > boss , or boss with burst phase or die.

this game need more bosses with interesting mechanics not less.

I will say to all the people saying mechanics carry the fight: You do still need solid non-mechanic DPS to be able to win this. Having geared/competent DPS *does* matter, and is still vital.

The three dragonkillers, even if they all hit, only account for 20% of Vishap's health, and there are only ever two cannons active at any one time (and they are not always able to hit Vishap, either)

It doesn't need an ILVL raise people needs to just listen its a really easy fight. But sadly people refuse to listen.

As people have said, the troubles boils down towards two things:

1) Communication. People either don't speak up about the mechanics until it's too late or people who don't understand don't speak up. No one wants to take charge and everyone else either refuses to listen or take too long to fully grasp what they're supposed to do. This is probably the very first full party fight where tank n spank WON'T work.

2) Lack of will power. This is not just in the trial either. Nearly everyone gives up in the first wipe or second wipe. Experienced players quit because they assume the party will never clear the fight and inexperienced players quit because they can't clear the fight in one shot and refuse to keep trying. You can't learn and clear fights if you are going to give up every single time and new players aren't going to learn if veteran players refuse to give people a chance after the first wipe.

He's complaining about mechanics in another thread now, he's not coming back to this one, lol

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

If I join it in my Trial Roulette as my WHM, I'm backing out, and not because I'm stupid, but because the chances of the rest of the group being competent is exceedingly dry, and I'm NOT waiting, an inordinately long time to wipe. I'll ask if everybody knows the fight. If more than 2 people say no, bye bye

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This is an attitude I can't stand, it screams of pettiness and elitism.

Went into SoF for trial roulette today as a tank, and right away half the party left before we could even get a "hello" in. Turns out that the 4 of us left had multiple clears already. While waiting for replacements I explained DK mechanics to drg who volunteered to man them. Eventually we got some decent people who joined in progress that decided to stick it out. Guess what happened after we had a full party again? We one shotted it and killed Vishap before he destroyed 3rd barrier. Only time that was "wasted" was due to entitled snobs who left at the start of fight.

This is a fight that requires some communication and coordination instead of just running in leeroy jenkins style. Guess the concept of communicating in an MMO is a foreign concept though.

Ilvl means nothing lol
Ppl can troll by qeuing in as dps with all vit or mind ironworks/ dreadwyrm accessories.
Their ilvl will be high but that doesn't mean so will their stats.

If only se added a vote reset on day 1 of patch.... It'd fix 99% of problems stated by the playerbase.

Wouldn't change a thing.