[dev1017] Materia crafting system & Materia: A Matter of Mystery (08/26/2011)

"A failed attempt to attach materia will result in the loss of all items involved in the process, barring the key item"

Ouch.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xmbei

lol already been taken care of, thanks though.

---

My fault for replying to the post before reading the rest of the thread. Seems we're all nubs at reading today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

My fault for replying to the post before reading the rest of the thread. Seems we're all nubs at reading today.

---

lol ^.^ welcome to the club!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

I'm hoping they go with my idea of needing to convert say a dungeon weapon to get the best (tier 4) materia. But that may be a bit overkill considering how many tier 4s you're going to need. Tier 4s might end up being super rare anyway and the intention might not be to have you stack 5 of those in an item.

Alternatively what could happen is dungeon weapons turn into materia that can't be obtained anywhere else, such as double attack rate etc. You could stick that in along with 4 more common tier 4s.

The materia system certainly sounds a lot more interesting than when it was first announced. But it seems standard HQs aren't going to be rare, meaning I should probably sell off all +2/3s I own right now.

---

Who knows. A HQ item in the new system may mean +15% stats just like 3 stars is now. If they allow 2/3 to change to HQ you will gain ground on all your 2's and 3's will remain the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archadius

I think we also need to look at the difficulty for adding the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th materia.

What do you guys think would be fair?

- 1st is 100% success, we know this
- 2nd, 80% success?
- 3rd, 60% success?
- 4th, 40% success?
- 5th, 20% success?

Does this sound reasonable? With these odds you have something like a... 4% chance of getting an item from basic to fully decked out, without it breaking.

---

if I go with the possibility that rare/ex gear won't receive materia so that crafted gears with multiple materia are superior than it would be more like this

1st materia = 100%
2nd materia = 80% - at this point the gear should be equal as a NM/dungeon rare/ex gear
3rd materia = 30%
4th materia = 15%
5th materia = 5% or less.

This is roughly what I think, maybe even lower from the 3rd and on.

Edit : Thanks to Royal for pointing me that we can add up to 5 materia ^^

They have confirmed up to 5 materia using the augmented key item.

Quote:

---

Players who have met certain requirements can obtain the more advanced ”augmented materia melder,” which allows the attachment of up to five pieces of materia per item.

---

Source - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/277

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Im 50 every DoH (except cooking is at 46) I still am entittled to my opinion, why dont you just quiet down and except my opinion.

---

Aww, you guys will complain at update, we all know it. you should not have rushed your doh jobs, now you have nothing to do if you hate the system, this is not takanaka's vision anymore, get over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tenkenkobra

making gear over and over and over no thx.

---

If you are not a crafter then there is no worries, just have friends make gear, it is a good reason parts are being removed.

Maybe there will be a minigame for attaching materia. So, your rank and the skills you have from crafting will come into play, and that in turn will decide how hard it is for someone to attach 2,3,4,5th materia to equipment. On that note, this would open up more abilities to be bought from guild marks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

With how gear is permanently lose upon conversion to materia, alot of gears is going to made which means alot of raw materials is going to be sold, and midrange NMs will be popular once again because they drops alot of craft-able gears along with their NM gear for the returning players.

Alot of win imo.


Now we only need confirmation regarding the possibility to convert untradeable/unique gear, if its possible, people will be returning to Dzemael Darkhold alot.. again win win.

---

I hope they add something to prevent that people take all the rare-ex items on a raid run only to convert it into materia if there's someone that need them for his job.
Will be nice if they add a party lot trasure like FFXI or/and a treasure distribution similar the one in WoW.
Btw I cant wait to see it >.< sounds really nice !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

if I go with the possibility that rare/ex gear won't receive materia so that crafted gears with multiple materia are superior than it would be more like this

1st materia = 100%
2nd materia = 80% - at this point the gear should be equal as a NM/dungeon rare/ex gear
3rd materia = 30%
4th materia = 15%
5th materia = 5% or less.

This is roughly what I think, maybe even lower from the 3rd and on.

---

With your numbers it looks like about a 2% chance to go from basic to fully decked out without it breaking.

Why do they have to make things more complicated than needs be?

I like the ability to enhance gear. I like that this will breath new life into craft-able items that were all but made worthless by similar ranked NM gear. I like that we now have something to do with all that gear dropped form leve's and NMs that no one wants. But why make things so complicated? Why not just have desynth (from xi) create materia which can then be attached to items at normal success failure rates? Why have all these apparatuses and misc items you need to collect and the misc rules like spiritbind and different synth success rates for binding materia?

Granted long time FF players won't have a big issue with this system, but imagine some future potential mmo player looking at the ffxiv for ps3 box in a store... is he/she really going take the time to learn what x apparatus is for, how to get it, why to get it, what effects the success or failure rate of using it. If they still want casual players, they need to learn casual players don't want to take a course on FF mechanics in order to play without being overwhelmed.


Edit: just want to re-emphasize: I do like the addition, i just think it could be simpler

That kind of a risk is a good thing though as it removes materia and gear from the market, forcing people to make/buy more. Plus all those people who like to look down on others for not having 5 materia gear can feel special again, they were crying pretty hard about previous things making gear easier to get :p

Why not have it like XI? Because this isn't XI. The devs can do better than XI, and I personally feel they are in this system. It's not as complicated as you're making it out to be.

1. Use gear until it has 100% spiritbind.
2. Convert gear into materia
3. Attach materia.
4. Rinse/repeat as desired.

Simple.

I hope Unique/Untradable equipment that drops from NMs like Phaia don't produce unique materia.

That's all low ranked players need now, R50's camping these mobs to get those items.

Also, this will probably increase the cost of weapons/equipment even further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigtyr

I hope Unique/Untradable equipment that drops from NMs like Phaia don't produce unique materia.

That's all low ranked players need now, R50's camping these mobs to get those items.

Also, this will probably increase the cost of weapons/equipment even further.

---

True this alone would increase the cost however also take into account the newly simplified crafting mechanics. This would offset the price raise from materia due to the ease of making new gear. Thus gear may actually be cheaper in some instances but with a lot more of it actually selling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigtyr

I hope Unique/Untradable equipment that drops from NMs like Phaia don't produce unique materia.

That's all low ranked players need now, R50's camping these mobs to get those items.

Also, this will probably increase the cost of weapons/equipment even further.

---

SE made no mention of U/U materia, so hopefully this won't be an issue.

That's really doubtful. I mean, hell, the price different between a regular iron plate belt and a green one is over 150k on Wutai. And there's only one more part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigtyr

That's really doubtful. I mean, hell, the price different between a regular iron plate belt and a green one is over 150k on Wutai. And there's only one more part.

---

True but both dying and finished items are going to be simplified, with a lot of parts being removed. We'll see how it pans out but to me it sounds like things will be cheaper.

Also since they are changing it that now you can dye the armor post production, not pre-production. I also like that new feature they are changing to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xmbei

Also since they are changing it that now you can dye the armor post production, not pre-production. I also like that new feature they are changing to.

---

I like this too, it should negate the whole "Iron Sabatons is 100k on wards but Iron Sabatons (Pink) is 80k on wards" BS that is going on...

It all looks really nice, in theory at least lol.

I'm actually excited for it. It's simple. Simple as hell, but I am still excited for it. How does it work? I don't know, I love raising things up, maybe I feel I am raising my beloved pet weapon to god tier.

What worries me is that, right now, it just seems like simple stat boosts. Nothing of the "Cooldown -", "Add X buff", "Add X Additional Effect", "Increases potency of X skill", "Increase X, but Decrease Y of Z skill". At least not announced yet.

Oh but am I still excited as hell. How do they do it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Royal

I just thought. How can a crafter get into a dungeon to get the drops. That would require the crafter to have a higher level battle class.

---

It would be like now
A battle party kills Dodore, get the Dodore Wing and sell it in the market wards. A crafter buy the wing and make Dodore Doublets with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

That kind of a risk is a good thing though as it removes materia and gear from the market, forcing people to make/buy more. Plus all those people who like to look down on others for not having 5 materia gear can feel special again, they were crying pretty hard about previous things making gear easier to get :p

Why not have it like XI? Because this isn't XI. The devs can do better than XI, and I personally feel they are in this system. It's not as complicated as you're making it out to be.

1. Use gear until it has 100% spiritbind.
2. Convert gear into materia
3. Attach materia.
4. Rinse/repeat as desired.

Simple.

---

So say you want to pimp out your r50Pug weapon/armor:
1. first you go grind with alt weapon/armor
2. then find crafter with materia assimilator to melt it down into materia
3. repeat steps 1 and 2 for more materia
4. get catalyst items from Disciples of the Land
5. go find an r50 crafter (since no one wants to risk loosing everything on a botched synth from a mid lvl crafter)
6. have r50 gld/crp/bsm/wvr, ect use your dark matter, catalyst, and item to upgrade your item...
6.5 dance in triumph or if he/she fails, go to market, re-buy original item and start again at step 1


yeah... that's just as easy as desynth + upgrade

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue79

So say you want to pimp out your r50Pug weapon/armor:
1. first you go grind with alt weapon/armor
2. then find crafter with materia assimilator to melt it down into materia
3. repeat steps 1 and 2 for more materia
4. get catalyst items from Disciples of the Land
5. go find an r50 crafter (since no one wants to risk loosing everything on a botched synth from a mid lvl crafter)
6. have r50 gld/crp/bsm/wvr, ect use your dark matter, catalyst, and item to upgrade your item...
6.5 dance in triumph or if he/she fails, go to market, re-buy original item and start again at step 1


yeah... that's just as easy as desynth + upgrade

---

From the Famitsu Interview as translated by Reinhard:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Famitsu: Does the attachment point gain fast?

Yoshida: That’s the hard part to adjusting, will try to make it so you can gain fast to a certain point.

---

The issues I see with simple de-synthing are two-fold:

1. Crafters can churn out a lot of gear in a short period of time. If there were no meter on the rate at which gear could be turned into materia, you would have crafters (both hard-core crafters and RMT) churning out materia by the bucketloads, and soon the market would be oversaturated.
2. It locks battle classes (and to a certain degree gatherers) out of the materia market. With the "attachment" system, battle classes can purchase gear (or get drops) and create materia by doing what they do - battling. In this way the can create value (less valuable gear into more valuable materia), without having to involve a crafter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blue79

So say you want to pimp out your r50Pug weapon/armor:
1. first you go grind with alt weapon/armor
2. then find crafter with materia assimilator to melt it down into materia
3. repeat steps 1 and 2 for more materia
4. get catalyst items from Disciples of the Land
5. go find an r50 crafter (since no one wants to risk loosing everything on a botched synth from a mid lvl crafter)
6. have r50 gld/crp/bsm/wvr, ect use your dark matter, catalyst, and item to upgrade your item...
6.5 dance in triumph or if he/she fails, go to market, re-buy original item and start again at step 1


yeah... that's just as easy as desynth + upgrade

---

From what I hear the upgrade system in FFXI kind of sucked and was way too situational. This is much better honestly, it's a pretty standard gem/slot system with crafter/gatherer interaction.

Your entire list assumes that the player doesn't have any crafting or gathering ranked up. Also I don't know where Dark Matter was brought into the equation, from my understanding it was Gear + Materia + Catalyst.

It may not be as easy but why must it be easy? This is simple enough that it is accessible to most players, especially those in active linkshells. Linkshells would definitely speed this up and make this process incredibly simple for most players.

Honestly it's more like:

1. Use gear until it has 100% spiritbind.
2. Convert gear into materia.*
3. Acquire catalyst (gather, buy, trade, etc...)
4. Attach materia (yourself or through others)
5. Rinse/repeat as desired.

*Steps 1 & 2 can be skipped by simply buying materia.

I'd say that's not difficult to comprehend at all. You're kidding yourself if you think any crafter worth his salt won't have the augmented materia melder.

I'll definitely be selling all my materia first on MW while prices are sky high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly it's more like:

1. Use gear until it has 100% spiritbind.
2. Convert gear into materia.*
3. Acquire catalyst (gather, buy, trade, etc...)
4. Attach materia (yourself or through others)
5. Rinse/repeat as desired.

*Steps 1 & 2 can be skipped by simply buying materia.

---

Let's also not forget that steps 1 & 2 can be done concurrently across all of your gear that you wear at one time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

I'll definitely be selling all my materia first on MW while prices are sky high.

---

This will last about 30 seconds.

Everyone is going to start making materia right away and toss it on the wards, then 20 other guys are going to do the same thing and all of them are going to undercut the last guy by a little bit.

You will notice materia xxx drop from 1mil to 100k in less than a day, and the guys who put it up first won't be getting that 1mil because everyone else knows it's gunna drop asap lol

Uhhh guys, I think the only DOWs & DOMs can use the materia assimilator.

Quote:

---

Creating Materia

Creating materia requires the “materia assimilator” key item, an apparatus which can be obtained via a quest available to players level 18 or above.

---

With the materia melder it only specifies DOH.

Quote:

---

Attaching Materia

Attaching materia requires the “materia melder” key item, an apparatus which can be obtained via a quest available to Disciples of the Hand level 18 or above (with the exception of culinarians and alchemists). The apparatus allows players to attach one piece of materia per item.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archadius

This will last about 30 seconds.

Everyone is going to start making materia right away and toss it on the wards, then 20 other guys are going to do the same thing and all of them are going to undercut the last guy by a little bit.

You will notice materia xxx drop from 1mil to 100k in less than a day, and the guys who put it up first won't be getting that 1mil because everyone else knows it's gunna drop asap lol

---

yeah maybe, but the rank IV materia may take longer to spiritbind, I think prices will stay high on those for a while.

Also I can see crafters who are trying to HQ Crab Bow for example, no longer NPC those high level weapons, but instead spiritbind them into materia. perhaps only the high level weapons/gear can generate the grade 4 materia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Uhhh guys, I think the only DOWs & DOMs can use the materia assimilator.

Quote:

---

Creating Materia
Creating materia requires the “materia assimilator” key item, an apparatus which can be obtained via a quest available to players level 18 or above.

---

With the materia melder it only specifies DOH.

---

I think to create the materia, any class DoM/W DoH/L can do so with their gears that reached 100% spiritbond and are level 18+, because crafters and gatherers wear gears as well for a start and they said that spirit bond will increase while battling, crafting or gathering.

To fuse the materia to another gear, you'll need crafters level 18+.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Uhhh guys, I think the only DOWs & DOMs can use the materia assimilator.

---

It's for all classes above 18

Quote:

---

Creating Materia

Creating materia requires the “materia assimilator” key item, an apparatus which can be obtained via a quest available to players level 18 or above.

---

I'm looking forward to this materia stuff! It'll make gathering feel more important *-*

will other player be able to insert materia into my weapons for me if i don't have the craft leveled?

"* In order to attach materia to a certain piece of equipment, Disciples of the Hand must fulfill the class and level requirements for crafting it."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atomisk

will other player be able to insert materia into my weapons for me if i don't have the craft leveled?

"* In order to attach materia to a certain piece of equipment, Disciples of the Hand must fulfill the class and level requirements for crafting it."

---

yes as long as its a tradable item.....

It may have all been a dream but... Didn't I read somewhere a while ago that once you slot a piece of materia to a piece of gear, that gear becomes "untradable"? Either way this will have a large effect on the economy.

Gear has to be sellable / tradable even with materia attached, otherwise you could not trade the parts to a crafter so he can make them and then trade them back.

My question would be how are these going to show in the wards search? right now its hard enough to find the +1/2/3 you need of an item but now if every item can have over 10,000+ different combinations of materia on them its going to be a near impossibility to find what you want.

> Will or can there be a special inventory slot for storing materia like the one we have that specifically stores crystals, or maybe a pouch-like item that holds all our materia that we can view through our items or key items tab (would be nice if the pouch is also upgradable or equipable)?

> Can you stack materia with the same effect and potency (e.g having 5 Intelligience IV for +20 INT) on one equip?

> Are unique/untradable equipments convertable into materia?


Hoping for a dev to respond to the many questions in this thread and to my first question regarding specialized storage for materia please.

I'm... immensely disappointed with the system, to be honest. It's precisely the same sort of thing that's been in many MMOs for years, and all it translates into is an endless, frustrating grind. I'd thought the dev team had stated they were focusing on making XIV less "grind oriented", but if so this is definitely a huge leap in the wrong direction.

While I understand the appeal and benefit of making crafted wares more desirable, consider that all those crafters have jobs with gear they'll want to imbue materia with as well. So, crafters benefit but everyone feels the pinch. Not to mention the whole "progressively more difficult as more materia is added" thing - combine this with total material loss and unless the success rate is quite generous, what we have here is a recipe for endless grinding with dubious payout. They are essentially asking players to gamble with many hours of their time for potentially (or probably, dependent on success rates) no reward whatsoever all in the faint hopes of incremental improvement.

I've seen this in other MMOs and while it's not a dealbreaker and rarely leads to screen-smashing fits of rage... It is very tiresome, and very annoying. I was delighted to have left it behind, but alas, the materia system seems to have fallen to the oh-so-common trap of MMO thinking: "If we give the players more to do, they'll play more!" True. However, all this is accomplishing is giving the players the same thing to do. Over. And over. And over. And there's probably a good chance they will have absolutely nothing to show for it. Giving players more to do is always a good idea as long as it's fun and rewarding. I'm having doubts about both of those with this system.

Don't get me wrong, setbacks are often part of a complete process and certainly have their place - but smashing up all of a player's hard work and saying "Go start over" is just flipping them one big middle finger - especially if they're upgrading + items. What this system accomplishes is discouraging risks and preventing players from using an upgrade system to its full potential.

If the success rate bonus for higher end slots isn't too punitive and the time taken to convert gear to materia isn't overly long, I won't have too many issues with the system. But, honestly, I sort of doubt it'll be that way. I'm expecting a huge disappointment.