Dear All Bards,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

I very much hope the Machinist will be the one to fill this role. An insta-cast mobile range dps, akin to a ranger. All the brds that dont like to use all their available skills can hop on that bandwagon.
Not enough info is around yet, its hard to say if Machinist is going to be similar to smn pets, or more like totems.

---

I'm really hoping the Machinist will be nothing like Summoner (from what is seen of the "pets" thus far). Otherwise it'll be a wash and people would be furious wondering why they didn't just release the gunner/musketeer class in the first place (if they're not already).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Snip.

---

You're leaving because nothing you has said thus far makes any sense. You forward the same attitude and opinions based on allowing people to play as they like when this can't be the case late game.

If we followed your attitude of just properly letting people play as they like, mechanics would be ignored. Do you know how many times I've wandered into all sorts of content and have seen people outwardly ignore mechanics because we should let them "play as they want"? That crap doesn't cut it in FFXIV. Any one person's actions have far too much of an impact on the other seven people to allow for the entire community to have the "just do what you want, man!" attitude. It doesn't work and it can't work.

Pumping out more DPS doesn't mean this but allowing people to do whatever can sure as sugar mean that they're not going to try or they're going to ignore mechanics. Even IN WoD and other Crystal Tower raids, believe it or not, you still have to listen to mechanics. You can't play as you want. I don't care if you want to finish a combo or try to kite as many adds as possible during Scylla, if you don't get on those pads for Daybreak, you can almost certainly wipe us.

Furthermore, it is stated within the Bard's storyline quests that the role of a bard was to inspire his allies and aid them in victory.

Remember what happened to Jehantel when he tried to play the role of the hero and top DPS? All of his friends are killed. He tells you, again and again, as does the Archer guild master that bards aren't mean to be front of the line DPS. I'm all for having fun but not when it comes at the expense of seven or 23 other people being able to perform well. That's just being lazy, plain and simple.

Im with you there! With the state the Pets are in I have been avoiding smn, and I assume machinist pets would be the same (if machinist was to use the pet bar I mean).
Im hoping that you simply summon a flying minion or something, and that shoots things in range, and you have cooldown skills that makes it shoot harder hitting skills/silencing skills ect.

But who knows!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Doe Foe affect performance of other alliances in a 24 man raid? I know that it is a mob debuff - you can see the icon on the mob's status bar. However, I've NEVER seen that icon on a boss unless I've been the one singing Foe or I know another bard in my alliance has done it. The same thing would apply for DRG's Disembowel debuff.

---

No, it's on a party by party basis. And even then, who cares, it's the easiest content in the game.

Bards not using their songs happens in all of the content, from early on to end game. I've come to expect it and am surprised, more often than not, to see Bards using their full portfolio instead of half-assing it just because the content is easy for them.

During my brief stint as a Bard, I was often overly generous with using Songs, to the point where I had the healers reassure me not to worry about their MP and to go ham with DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

No, it's on a party by party basis. And even then, who cares, it's the easiest content in the game.

---

Very true regarding how little it matters.

In the end despite what the OP tries to make out, in easy content like the crystal tower raid whether labyrinth, ST or WoD if bards want to play songs when not required then they should feel free to do play a song if they want. But if it is not required and they do not wish to do so, again that is fine also. Bards only need to play songs to clear content when cannot do so without playing them and the same goes for any class with their skill sets...outside of those situations it is up to them whether or not they wish to play them. No-one has the right to demand they do so when doing so is not required like with easy content such as Lab, ST or WoD.

That is equally as applicable to any dungeon, fate party or hunting party, in fact any activity where songs are not required to complete the task yet might be part of a group. It becomes completely up to the bard whether or not play them and they shouldn't let anyone else bully them into doing so in such situations against their will. In hardcore content like coils or EX trials playing songs becomes more important and there is some expectation worthy of listening to when is required to clear such content...but in easy content where it is not required, that is 100% up to the bard and no-one else whether want to play a song or not to speed up a run or kill something slightly faster.

The same applies to any class, as long as doing enough to clear the content you set out to clear, doing what is required to get the job done then everything outside of that is up to the them. If that person wants to go above and beyond what is required that is also up to them and no-one else. The OP has no right to demand otherwise, the only thing that matters is they do enough to clear the content but how fast they clear it is up to each individual player whether want to push for faster clear or slower clear as long as they are clearing it then it is fine either way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Foe Requiem Price: Commendations plz. :)

---

Healing that Bard? Ooops! Guess I forgot to... XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

No, it's on a party by party basis. And even then, who cares, it's the easiest content in the game.

---

...I'd really like to know how it stands now O.o Cos some of you have said "no, it's a debuff on the boss; it affects the boss, not the parties, therefore party A's blm will benefit from party C's bard's foe" and others (like you) say "no, it only affects party C's casters". Which is it? D:

(And if it is a debuff on the boss but only affects party C's caster if party C's bard is singing... then that means that ninja/warrior debuffs shouldn't matter for the MT, right? Which make about as much sense, really.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxifer

...I'd really like to know how it stands now O.o Cos some of you have said "no, it's a debuff on the boss; it affects the boss, not the parties, therefore party A's blm will benefit from party C's bard's foe" and others (like you) say "no, it only affects party C's casters". Which is it? D:

(And if it is a debuff on the boss but only affects party C's caster if party C's bard is singing... then that means that ninja/warrior debuffs shouldn't matter for the MT, right? Which make about as much sense, really.)

---

Okay, I was at a dummy a while ago doing blm stuff, a bard comes and uses foe randomly which affects the dummy. My fires do indeed deal more damage, and no he's not found his way into my party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

snip

---

Best part is, you should use it before the pull so you don't lose a single second dps if you're a bard worth your salt...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxifer

snip

---

haha thanks c:

It's not like it should hurt their own DPS. 3 seconds isn't going to hurt anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elkya95

Okay, I was at a dummy a while ago doing blm stuff, a bard comes and uses foe randomly which affects the dummy. My fires do indeed deal more damage, and no he's not found his way into my party.

---

Thank you ^_^ Glad to see SE hasn't gone for the illogical route.

(Also, I adore your sig XD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

He is right.

---

except, if you think protect in stone skin is needed for clearing WoD you're an idiot. You can literally spam 1 button as a dps class, run 6 scholars with rouse, and 3 tanks who can hit 1 2 3 and clear that dungeon. Oh, and you need to be able to tether cerberus and not get hit by the red circles. Nothing about any of the iterations of CT--> WoD have ever been nor will they ever be even slightly difficult. No one cares if you want bards to cast foes, especially if they are only in there for the 2nd boss for the BiS body.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noxifer

...I'd really like to know how it stands now O.o Cos some of you have said "no, it's a debuff on the boss; it affects the boss, not the parties, therefore party A's blm will benefit from party C's bard's foe" and others (like you) say "no, it only affects party C's casters". Which is it? D:

(And if it is a debuff on the boss but only affects party C's caster if party C's bard is singing... then that means that ninja/warrior debuffs shouldn't matter for the MT, right? Which make about as much sense, really.)

---

I've looked at it quite a lot, foes only registers to your party on the boss, it's really weird, but that's just how it works. So pretty much for the entire raid to get it, each raid needs a bard casting foes. And if you don't believe me, go to a dummy and try it out yourself instead of waiting for people to just tell you what you want to hear. It's not a hard concept to test, at all.

Foe Requiem

Reduces all enemy magic resistances of all enemies by 10%.
MP is drained while singing.
Effect is lost if targets move out of hearing distance, and ends upon reuse.
Cannot be used with other songs.

Well Let's be real here. The Song helps but is not as great as most people think it is. If you read the description it says: Reduces all enemy magic resistances.
What does this means? It means that the enemy is less likely to resist a magic spell being cast upon him, so its more likely that does max damage. So in other words Foe Requiem does NOT grants an extra 10% damage as most people think. This is just an increase chance to do max damage. You can do max damage without Foe Requiem but its a bit harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronyx

Brain cancer

---

...What? Seriously, go grab a BLM or two, let them hit a dummy for a few minutes. Then get a BRD, regardless of party to sing Foe. IT'S NOT A CHANCE. IT'S A DAMAGE INCREASE. If I lower your physical resistance, does that mean you can 'periodically' at the whim of RNGesus take more damage from my auto attacks? No, it means that you'll take more damage from auto attacks consistently. Enemies don't RESIST damage spells anyway. There's no mechanic in this fight that has enemies sometimes RESISTING damage against them. Periods of invulnerability, or increased defence? Yes, but those are consistent buffs, not a chance, or likelihood.

Those who had played a blm in FFXI would know what lowering a resistance means. Enemies does resist spells they have elementals resistances just like we have. Or have you never wonder why do we have those in our stats screen? Why there are materias with Lightning, Wind resistance etc? It is why the original description says all elemetal resistances but to prevent confusion with physical atks which are different than magic, they had to change the description.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronyx

Those who had played a blm in FFXI would know what lowering a resistance means. Enemies does resist spells they have elementals resistances just like we have. Or have you never wonder why do we have those in our stats screen? Why there are materias with Lightning, Wind resistance etc? It is why the original description says all elemetal resistances but to prevent confusion with physical atks which are different than magic, they had to change the description.

---

Uhm last I checked this is FFXIV, not IX. It lowers their magic defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronyx

Those who had played a blm in FFXI would know what lowering a resistance means. Enemies does resist spells they have elementals resistances just like we have. Or have you never wonder why do we have those in our stats screen? Why there are materias with Lightning, Wind resistance etc? It is why the original description says all elemetal resistances but to prevent confusion with physical atks which are different than magic, they had to change the description.

---

This isn't FFXIV though and you can't apply the terminology the same way.

Lowering Elemental resistance increases the damage the target takes from elemental attacks. It's pretty basic.

Dancing Edge decreases the mob's Slashing Resistance by 10%. You think that means it lowers the "chance" for them to resist the attack? No, it means they take increased damage from slashing attacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I've looked at it quite a lot, foes only registers to your party on the boss, it's really weird, but that's just how it works. So pretty much for the entire raid to get it, each raid needs a bard casting foes. And if you don't believe me, go to a dummy and try it out yourself instead of waiting for people to just tell you what you want to hear. It's not a hard concept to test, at all.

---

Except someone just did that:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elkya95

Okay, I was at a dummy a while ago doing blm stuff, a bard comes and uses foe randomly which affects the dummy. My fires do indeed deal more damage, and no he's not found his way into my party.

---

With tower bosses, they're likely to have a gazillion debuffs on them. Not all the debuff signs are going to show up just because of that, despite still affecting the boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronyx

Those who had played a blm in FFXI would know what lowering a resistance means. Enemies does resist spells they have elementals resistances just like we have. Or have you never wonder why do we have those in our stats screen? Why there are materias with Lightning, Wind resistance etc? It is why the original description says all elemetal resistances but to prevent confusion with physical atks which are different than magic, they had to change the description.

---

And those resistances indicate we take sliiightly less/more damage from certain elements. Though since we're only talking about one or two per cent, it's not going to play that important a role in our survival. Yes, it's annoying that they use blunt/piercing/slashing/physical/magic resist for damage while using things like "heavy resist" to indicate chances of being affected by heavy.

(Plus, like others have said, this is FFXIV, not FFXI. It's like comparing mechanics to FFII and expecting them to work exactly the same.)

Grab a brd,a blm and a parser, get the blm to hit something for a while, and check the dps.
Do it again with foe on, and you will notice the blm does at least 10% more dmg. Yes its resistance down, but I think people just say 10% more dmg, because the end result is the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

Grab a brd,a blm and a parser, get the blm to hit something for a while, and check the dps.
Do it again with foe on, and you will notice the blm does at least 10% more dmg. Yes its resistance down, but I think people just say 10% more dmg, because the end result is the same.

---

You know that the damage increase is visible when you hit the enemy, right? You see the fire do more damage when it hits.

Just saying it lets you analyse it after and have solid evidence at the end , of exactly how much more dmg you did overall. But yea if you wanna watch numbers I dont see why thats a problem.

Sorry that se does not create a scenerio where all three songs are needed. Besides from coil and speed pulls where the heck will u run out tp or mp. Theres more physical dps than magic dps (at least in my server). 5min fights are remedied through invigorate and goad. Honestly if you take longer than 5mins in any dungeon boss fight something is wrong. Healers have ways of getting mp back. There isnt really any situation where any song is needed so I can understand why some bards forget they have songs lol

Dont get me wrong im all for foes for at least 1 magic dps. But the environment that pple leveled theit bard in doesn't really enforce songs

They don't forget they have songs, but when songs are not required to clear the content (especially in content that is very easy in itself) it becomes up to the bard if they want to play a song depending if they personally want the run to go potentially faster or whether they are happy to take it easy within that easy content.

Same way a healer if wanted to speed things up might DPS aka using holy for example instead of just healing when doing easy content that does not need them to do so or a tank pulling a lot of mobs when they do not need to do so because they made a choice to speed things up. DPS using perfect rotations, eating buff food and popping pots in order to speed run a place is another example even when that place lacks any necessity to put that much effort into clearing it. In the end it is completely up to the individual players of any class whether or not to push for a faster clear using their skills or just casually cruise through it taking it easy when doing easy content. Playing songs in easy content is the same.

If it is not required and they want to play songs because they want to speed things up maybe then good for them, that's fine, if they just want to focus on their DPS skill set and not support skill set when the support skill set is not required during easy content, that's fine also. On hard content where songs are needed, most bards will play them but on easy content it's just not whine worthy when a player does not feel like doing a speed run.

If a bard doesn't sing they are bad, no excusing it.

Tanks don't always have to use their cooldowns, healers don't have to stoneskin, dps doesn't have to their cooldowns to clear content. If they aren't they are lazy, stop trying to make excuses for laziness. "We dont have to" is just lame. I feel like most people enter CT raids as brds so they can pretty much sleep walk through it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CYoung187

If a bard doesn't sing they are bad, no excusing it.

Tanks don't always have to use their cooldowns, healers don't have to stoneskin, dps doesn't have to their cooldowns to clear content. If they aren't they are lazy, stop trying to make excuses for laziness. "We dont have to" is just lame. I feel like most people enter CT raids as brds so they can pretty much sleep walk through it.

---

What a silly thing to say. A lot of bards who take it easy on easy content achieve just as much success and progress just as far if not further into hardcore content than perhaps you have done. It has nothing to do with their competence or ability to clear hard content when they are actually doing hard content.

On easy content they are perfectly capable of taking it easier without having to go full steam 24/7 on everything they do, it is very reasonable for a player to take it easy on easy content not playing a song when not needed or not constantly popping pots or food buffs when not needed...it has nothing to do with their competence or ability to clear hard content when they decide to take part in content that is actually hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

Pretty sure you have said that like 19 times in this thread.

---

Pretty sure your reply added nothing to further the discussion on the actual topic itself.

Pretty sure you have said that like 19 times in this thread.

Saying you don't have to play a song because its "easy content" is like saying the Tanks don't have to grab adds or try and hold aggro because the mobs don't hit that hard, or the healer should just stand there and do nothing when the mobs hits are weak. Play your jobs right and use your skills. Why wouldn't you? There is no excuse when you have something available and don't use it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It has nothing to do with their competence or ability to clear hard content when they are actually doing hard content.

On easy content they are perfectly capable of taking it easier without having to go full steam 24/7 on everything they do, it is very reasonable for a player to take it easy on easy content not playing a song when not needed or not constantly popping pots or food buffs when not needed...it has nothing to do with their competence or ability to clear hard content when they decide to take part in content that is actually hard.



Pretty sure your reply added nothing to further the discussion on the actual topic itself.

---

Pretty sure you are iterating the exact same points you made many pages ago, to try validate an opinion in which the vast majority think you are wrong.

Lazy is lazy. Justifying it because its on easy content is no excuse. Honestly, how hard is it to press a button for foes or whatever song you may need?

BRD is the easiest job there is and no matter how "easy" any of the other jobs decides to take it they'll still have to do alot more than a BRD taking it easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accolade

Pretty sure you are iterating the exact same points you made many pages ago, to try validate an opinion in which the vast majority think you are wrong.

---

My main point is the same just like every single person in here has a single main point which is whether they agree or disagree with the OP, any other points are tangents and my replies are no different. The context and content of my replies are tailored to the points others make.

Care to prove the vast majority think I am wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Makado

Saying you don't have to play a song because its "easy content" is like saying the Tanks don't have to grab adds or try and hold aggro because the mobs don't hit that hard, or the healer should just stand there and do nothing when the mobs hits are weak.

---

No, it isn't. If the mobs do not actually hit hard enough to be a concern in those areas then the healer is doing the right thing not wasting MP when it is not needed, saying a tank not holding aggro is like saying a bard not DPS'ing rather than a bard not singing a song that is not needed. Your examples are highly flawed, a bards job is to primarily DPS and use songs when needed not primarily to play songs and DPS only when needed.

A tanks job is to tank mobs and hold aggro when needed, if they are capable and willing to speed run (which is all this thread is really whining about in reality, the speeding up of clearing content not the ability to actually clear it) then they can if they want, that's their choice of which I respect that choice but they do not have to just like a bard does not need to play a song when no song is needed and you do not get to dictate or demand differently anymore so than I get to dictate every tank must speed run all the time.

This threads topic is nothing more in reality than a whine-fest of some people demanding speed runs of easy content because the playing of the songs when not required has nothing to do with the ability to clear that easy content yet the whining has everything to do with clearing that content faster. It is equivalent of me making a thread called "all tanks must speed run", "all players must eat food and use pots on easy content", "all healers must DPS", "all cinematic's must be skipped" or "all bards must use Swiftsong between pulls".

It is nothing more than a speed run thread which is specifically targeting bards on this occasion.

We all know the bards all leave after the 2nd boss anyway. Your argument is invalid.

Lol the tone im getting from this thread is that a bard who doesnt sing a hundred percent of the time is a bad bard. But a bard who sings a song a hundred percent of the time is ALSO a bad bard. Why? Cause if its not foes than they are nerfing their damage by 20% uunnecessary. And even then y play foes when there is no cast dps. Its more proper to say a bard who doesnt sing during the appropriate situation is a bad bard.

Stories about bad bards never fail to aggravate me. As a player who mains the job, I go all-out when it comes to the numbers. Battle Voiced Requiem for the pull, Windbite or Straight Shot opener depending on the encounter's length and whether or not the fight has downtime. I am sometimes shocked by the gaps I leave since bard is the easiest DPS job in the game, and when I get paired up with other bards the difference between them and I is night and day. It has gotten to the point where I actually become overjoyed when I play with a bard whose skills rival my own. Every time I hear these horror stories about bards who don't utilize their songs properly for the benefit of their party or alliance, or do an extremely low amount of DPS when they have the highest uptime of any other DPS job, I can't help but think to myself: "WHY?"

If I had a nickel for every lolbrd in this game, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

When I play DRG I should just stop using invigorate because I don't have to I'm not a support job lol.

It does surprise me when Bards don't use their songs, especially Ballad if it's needed.

Are there times you shouldn't play Foes? Does it boost the enemy damage? I was running AK HM and someone said it did. I'm a bit confused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Snip

---

Agreed. I remember a similar post that was locked talking about how a brd *shouldn't* have to play song in easy content due to not wanting to lose dps. How that person thought that thought healers should practice good mp management, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quinnie

Are there times you shouldn't play Foes? Does it boost the enemy damage? I was running AK and someone said it did. I'm a bit confused.

---

Between pulls it should be off by default for MP's sake and that it can "pull" enemy mobs that are in the range of effect. In AK normal there's a few skippable pulls that it might've aggro'd. But no it does not boost enemy damage at all (besides reflect mechanics if we're getting technical >_>)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leadleaf

Between pulls it should be off by default for MP's sake and that it can "pull" enemy mobs that are in the range of effect. In AK normal there's a few skippable pulls that it might've aggro'd. But no it does not boost enemy damage at all (besides reflect mechanics if we're getting technical >_>)

---

Oh good okay, thank you for the answer! I didn't think it did but they were so sure, it's cast doubts whenever I've played it since x_x

& Yes, I'd definitely reinstate that to anyone who leaves it up in between pulls. Turning it off makes a big difference for MP and for the sake of your Tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quinnie

snip

---

The only time that Foe Requiem shouldn't be played, or should be turned off, is when the tank is still grabbing groups for the pull or there are patrolling/docile mobs that may be within earshot. If Requiem reaches a pack of mobs before the tank grabs them with their pull tool, that pack will come after the bard. If there's a patrolling mob, or docile adds during boss fights, that's more adds to deal with during those fights. If the tank and healer aren't ready for that, it can potentially cause a pull or a fight to wipe. It's best to play Foe Requiem once the tank has pulled all the packs and is grouping them up, or far enough from un-aggro'd mobs so they don't hear it. Other than accidentally pulling mobs, and conserving MP between pulls, there is no reason not to play Foe Requiem.