Translation Team: Please stop doing this...

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Now I'm curious though... how often does the word "portend" show up in modern media? I would bet you'd be hard pressed to find it in any of today's newspapers and newscasts. :/

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I just checked InfoTrac's archives of newspapers and magazines, and the answer is _a lot_.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Honestly, given his personality, I get the impression that Urianger's archaic dialogue is a deliberate affectation he adopted while studying his dusty tomes. He's totally an ancient lore nerd; I'll bet dollars to donuts that, back in his high-school/college days (or Eorzean equivalent), he started talking the way he does to get geek cred among his scholarly peers. I very much doubt he was raised to speak the way he does.

As a bonus, he's clearly an introvert, and the complicated dialogue likely intimidates riff-raff that would otherwise pester him. Not that that stops individuals like Moenbryda... :D

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Not entirely true, as someone who read quite a lot of older books as a kid I can tell you that it often does bleed into your everyday vocabulary without even realizing it. For instance, when I use quite people tell me I sound like an old man, it's not intentional and I don't particularly notice unless pointed out by someone else.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

As well as being fluent in beast-tribe speak? >.>; Nah, the "local accent" responses we give are just there for amusement. (Example: "I go whither the wild rose blooms." Did we come from the same uni as Urianger? O.o Wait... then we would've said goeth and bloometh... =_= )

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Beast Tribe's a bit...different. We would adopt their speech pattern to be diplomatic, which is what we're doing in all of the beast tribe quests.
However, the ROG/NIN one isn't really entertaining. It's just impenetrable and is the key moment when I didn't feel like it was something *my character* would actually say. Our words should be broad strokes and closer to the English the actual players speak. "I believe there is mummery taking place." (paraphrased) should instead be "Something isn't right about this." Cuz if you're using words the average player wouldn't use, you set up a disconnect between the player and their character.

If you want an idea of how bad in could have been had the translation team decided to go much further back, here's a perfect example :

http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uplo...01/aE4v3Uz.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Now I'm curious though... how often does the word "portend" show up in modern media? I would bet you'd be hard pressed to find it in any of today's newspapers and newscasts. :/o

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Not quite, last use in a quick google news search for example reveals these articles:

yesterday: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2097087
yesterday: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Militar...om-budget-cuts
20 hours ago: http://www.economist.com/news/financ...ebt-crisis-not
17 hours ago: http://www.fa-mag.com/news/hedge-fun...ays-20650.html


Portend is a word which most certainly still is part of modern day vocabulary.

Ye'd hate t'have me in yer FC, then, f'r I speak like that all th' time.

What's funny is, the Rogue cant, seems t'be an odd mix o' Pirate... and Paisano. Jarring and fun!

Fix'd for OP's convenience.

http://i.imgur.com/w0v0csu.jpg

I do think SE is a bit too heavy-handed with the olde english.

I appreciate their use of it and their unique variation of it, however...

To me, it's less about having trouble understanding it & more about how silly its overuse feels.

They say "mayhaps" and "thee" about a 100x too much.

I think they can relax the language just a tad & perhaps eradicate the word "mayhaps".

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

If you want an idea of how bad in could have been had the translation team decided to go much further back, here's a perfect example :

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What's interesting though is that the modernizing of the bible's translation didn't really kick in until the 20th century. For example, one made in the very late 19th century makes ample use of the "-eth" suffix on words, something that had fallen out of use by that time. As an example, take a look at Lincoln's Gettysburg address or hell, Emmet's "Speech from the Dock." Honestly, they really should be deriving the dialogue for this game from post-Shakespearean plays and speeches, especially given how many amenities we have that didn't exist during the time the language being spoken was used.
Right now it's the equivalent of someone talking like a 1920s gangster on a cellphone.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

What's interesting though is that the modernizing of the bible's translation didn't really kick in until the 20th century. For example, one made in the very late 19th century makes ample use of the "-eth" suffix on words, something that had fallen out of use by that time. As an example, take a look at Lincoln's Gettysburg address or hell, Emmet's "Speech from the Dock." Honestly, they really should be deriving the dialogue for this game from post-Shakespearean plays and speeches, especially given how many amenities we have that didn't exist during the time the language being spoken was used.
Right now it's the equivalent of someone talking like a 1920s gangster on a cellphone.

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That's really not at all what it is. These dialects were specifically chosen, especially for Ramuh and Midgardsormr and the like in particular, because these beings are thousands of years old if not older. Speaking in modern parlance for them would be far more out of character for ancient beings than speaking with a dialect you or the OP doesn't like.

English is not my first language, but I love to dead the localization of the game. It really give it an unique feel. I love to speak with different NPC and being able to guess where they come from for the way the speak, and the convergence of dialects is quite entertaining. The way it is written is also kind of beautiful itself, how they play with words, that goes from making modern references with a very funny spin to almost poetic dialogue, straigh out from a play.

I cannot only but disagree. The translation is unique, well though out, surprisingly faithful to the source materia and perfect for a fantasy setting like Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

That's really not at all what it is. These dialects were specifically chosen, especially for Ramuh and Midgardsormr and the like in particular, because these beings are thousands of years old if not older. Speaking in modern parlance for them would be far more out of character for ancient beings than speaking with a dialect you or the OP doesn't like.

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I stated before, but every critique i have of the game's localization decision absolutely does not apply to Midgardsormr, the Primals (including Hydaelyn), and (to a lesser extent) Urianger and Yugiri. These characters use older dialects/speech patterns in Japanese, and thus are being translated/localized correctly and consistently
The REST of the scions, leaders, and regular NPCs though, speak standard Japanese. Thus, my criticism is that the words they, not Midgardsormr, not the Primals, and not any other "ancient beings" speak is incredibly outdated and jarring. In addition, at least one instance of dialogue you, the player get to choose from uses vocabulary and grammar that runs counter to what the player likely uses.

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Originally Posted by Elgeron

The translation is unique, well though out, surprisingly faithful to the source materia and perfect for a fantasy setting like Eorzea.

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Unfortunately, as I reference above, with the exception of Midgardsormr and other ancients, the game's translation is actually NOT faithful to the "source material" since there is no source material as the two localizations are worked on concurrently. Ideas come from the Japanese side first usually, but as everything is released simultaneously, it can't really be argued to call it the "source material."
And if you're referring to other FF games, again this style of translation is actually quite new, beginning with the more recent remakes of the like of FF4, FFT: War of the Lions, and the later Dragon Quest games and remakes. Bravely Default was especially awkward in this way.
Mixing pop culture references with grammar structures not used since the time of the pop culture reference's creator's great great great great great great grandparents is jarring to say the least.
It tries to be poetic, and succeeds in areas where being poetic is warranted, such as again, the primals and midgardsormr. But when a game has characters using grammar and spelling Ben Franklin would raise an eyebrow at in a game with a quest called "Pirates versus Ninjas," there's a certain disconnect going on.
Again, don't get me wrong, there ARE areas where the flowery speech is perfectly fine, but they seem to be applying it with a roller rather than a paintbrush.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

Fix'd for OP's convenience.

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I dunno, after Pi's post, my brain likes to imagine that Ramuh talks and sounds like Mr. T.

But at this point wouldn't it be jarring to change the style of the writting? It would be too inconsistent.

The thing with the detachetment of the characters is kind of subjective. I found myself caring for the characters of this MMORPG much more, than say, Guild Wars 2, game that I like but just didn't reached me in the same emotional level. I would also like to mention games like Shadow of the Colossus and ICO, both in wich character use a totally made up language, yet are most known as being very emotional. Of course the way they tell their stories is not the same as FF XIV, but what they coincide is that the main character remains an effective tool for immersion.

The language isn't that hard anyways. For the most part it sin't really anytrhing too hard to understand, I would say though that it is pretty noticeable in the first part of the storyline, which had to be rushed to hell to release as soon as possible, so the weird and strange wording there is understandable.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

Fix'd for OP's convenience.

http://i.imgur.com/w0v0csu.jpg

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HHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I spilled my drink

I find no real fault with middle english being used for ancient beings or the limsan accent, it adds more depth to the characters rather than having them speak in just plain modern english.

Played DA:I recently and while I really enjoy the accents and Morrigan using dashes of middle english, it really threw me out of immersion when I heard Blackwall and Dorian use modern curse words.

As for Urianger SPOILERS

End of 2.55 story suggests that he isn't quite what he seems to be

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

Stop using "Thy" and "Thou" ...

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Speaks excellent English.

Doesn't understand the word "portend."

Thinks that Shakespearean English is "ye olde English."

^ I don't think all of these can be true at the same time.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

Oh boy, I can't wait for the update where Ramuh drops out of the sky like "sup dawg, we gon fight up in dis tree to see who da most swoll in da woods".

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HA! Can you just imagine if they did something like this? It would be extremely comical, but definitely not in tone with this game or the characters. Koji would have blast using slang translation like this and I'm sure the entire North American SE team would get a kick out of this!

Personally, I think the translations work beautifully. Nothing should be changed. Just my 2 cents.

http://forums.riftgame.com/attachmen...crothread.jpeg


this somehow felt like it was appropriated >_>

Maybe this can help some of those struggling with English http://webm.land/media/gfdW.webm

I'm pretty sure the head of translating team is Japanese, so it's not like the original intent is getting greatly lost or anything... Get mad at the Japanese writers, not the translators. That's likely how the lore team WANTS those characters to sound.

I quite like it.
wot wot.

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Originally Posted by dice137

I'm pretty sure the head of translating team is Japanese, so it's not like the original intent is getting greatly lost or anything... Get mad at the Japanese writers, not the translators. That's likely how the lore team WANTS those characters to sound.

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Michael Koji Fox, Head of Localization Department

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0PlVDNCUAAFpUo.jpg:large

Doesn't look japanese to me :P

We all must needs to get used to the fact that is how some Eorzean speak

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Originally Posted by Gralna

Michael Koji Fox, Head of Localization Department

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I got him confused with someone who did a segment at the Tokyo Fan Fest about translating the Manderville song, or something like that. So that's my mistake.

Regardless, the translation team DOES have native Japanese people on it. The whole team isn't just a bunch of Americans who just know some Japanese. No one there is entirely ignorant to the desires of the original writers. If a character speaks in an extremely overwrought nature, it's not because they're being LOLXDSORANDOM, and it's not simple pandering to heavy high fantasy heads. Every character speaks a certain way for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

nnnggggg... /flails

It's not ancient English, it's definitely not Old English. It's an easy to read version of Middle English. Closer to what Shakespeare and the English the Puritans spoke (Early Modern period, just before they finally got rid of the -eths for the good of us all >< ).

[/I]

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Thank you for that ^_^. It's a little pet peeve of mine when people refer to thee and thou as Old English when it's classified as Early Modern.

For those that have problems understanding the usage this page has a nice break down on it.

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Originally Posted by Siwy

I don't mind the middle English that gets used, as both it is a fantasy world and it gives my English lit skills a workout. (Yes I said middle English, old would be nigh unreadable to anyone outside those trained to.)

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It's not even Middle English. It's simply somewhat archaic Modern English. Here's some Middle English (and late Middle English, at that, courtesy of Chaucer):

Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(so priketh hem nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

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Originally Posted by myahele

We all must needs to get used to the fact that is how some Eorzean speak

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It'd be fine if it weren't so inconsistent.
During the final 2.55 cutscenes, the phrase akin to "Should be here soon" is used, when at other times in the same situation the phrase "should be here anon" is used.
I could go into great detail on how they keep making little flubs like that.
Especially when you consider that the Japanese script is in more or less plain Japanese (except characters that we kinda all agree get a free linguistic pass) that, aside from some more complex terms like the three or four variations of "hero" and "knight" they throw around, is perfectly in line with modern Japanese speakers.
To reiterate, Midgardsormr is more comprehensible to me in Japanese than he is in English.
I'm not asking to have the script completely "dudebro!" only to make it something that people actually say. You can't write towards the same level of shakespeare and expect your actors who voice cartoon animals to give an excellent performance.
There are some fun decisions in the script, like "anyroad" instead of "anyway." That works, the meaning can be grasped easily based on context and it gives some flavor. The overuse of "mayhap" and "anon" and the like, though, is awkward.
The weird thing is they seem to be slowly toning it down, as the 2.55 cutscenes seem to use less of the "squeenixisms" than any other chain of cutscenes to this point. Maybe we're seeing them phased out because they're realizing that it's taking too many takes to get the voice acting content done.
And since they're going to be using a whole host of new voice actors in the coming expansion, it's the perfect opportunity to slowly tone it down as we enter a new area.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

It'd be fine if it weren't so inconsistent.
During the final 2.55 cutscenes, the phrase akin to "Should be here soon" is used, when at other times in the same situation the phrase "should be here anon" is used.

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Because phases of transition aren't a thing. >_>

Gods forfend..

After ff12 woulda thought they'd start using these ten commandments-esque dialogue a bit more sparingly. I'm fine with it but I understand the eyeroll it gets.

I get that they're attempting to add "color" to the dialogue, but wordy dialogue that reads like bad Game of Thrones fanfic interspersed with memes obfuscates the original meaning more than it enhances it.

If I hear "must needs" in 3.0, I swear I am going to burn down Coerthas.

DO YOU HEAR ME, KOJI?

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

If I hear "must needs" in 3.0, I swear I am going to burn down Coerthas.

DO YOU HEAR ME, KOJI?

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Well I guess according to you, Coerthas is burning down, because you're still going to see and hear 'must needs' quite a bit since it's the way people speak in Eorzea. Get the hell over it.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

Oh boy, I can't wait for the update where Ramuh drops out of the sky like "sup dawg, we gon fight up in dis tree to see who da most swoll in da woods".

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Lol with Ramuh visual update, wearing a pimp hat, gold teeth, purple sweater and Flavor Flav's gold clock necklace.

Ifrit update: "Duuuude whur's my bong..."
Titan update: "Yuh put the gaol in da poodin."
Garuda update: "F$#& YOU! Yoo dunnooow me! Yoo dunnooow me! Yeh wuheva... wuheva!"
Shiva update: "Bitch pleaze."

Joking aside, I find the old english fine, but just as long as they keep close to the Japanese text, even if it's a little off since translation from Japanese to English can be rather broad. If they totally swerve out of what the Japanese version says, then I'll be more concerned about what the translation team is translating and if they are strictly improvising everything.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

It'd be fine if it weren't so inconsistent.
During the final 2.55 cutscenes, the phrase akin to "Should be here soon" is used, when at other times in the same situation the phrase "should be here anon" is used.
I could go into great detail on how they keep making little flubs like that.

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Why would you consider that a flub? It's just a synonym. English has lots of synonyms, so it's pretty common to alternate different terms at different times.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

It's not even Middle English. It's simply somewhat archaic Modern English. Here's some Middle English (and late Middle English, at that, courtesy of Chaucer):

Whan that aprill with his shoures soote
The droghte of march hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
Tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the ram his halve cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye
(so priketh hem nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of engelond to caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

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WTF did I just read?!

Before 2.55 I was like "If I see the phrase "to rise to the chorus" one more time" and sure enough, there it was. Thanks Ysayle.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

If I hear "must needs" in 3.0, I swear I am going to burn down Coerthas.

DO YOU HEAR ME, KOJI?

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Since ARR launch, I've assumed that they're doing it just to screw with you.

Not with me, because I find it funny that people don't like a perfectly valid English phrase. But with you, and people like you, who don't like or understand the phrase.

And I find it hilarious.

Philistines

If I'm honest a fair few of the complaints here simply amount to people with a lacking vocabulary being upset at having to learn a new word...

The Limsan dialect is portrayed as an accent. The text you get isn't the actual words they're saying but the WAY they're saying them. If you read aloud some of the things the Limsans say you'll realise it's just an accented version of normal speech (with a few local words thrown in).

These things give the cast character and the locales culture. Without all of the differing speech patterns the world would feel far less diverse. If that requires a few people to learn a few new words then it's a win/win scenario as far as I'm concerned.