Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

Personally I don't see how you can say you don't like the direction, instead of forcing us to be able to level up only two ways they give us more options and there should be no complain whatsoever now.

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And some of these options have inferior aspects to them as opposed to leves. If you want to give me more options, make sure that they're at the very least equal to what I was doing before.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

One thing I'd like to people to respond to is this:

the main staple people plug for grind parties is "better world immersion/exploration and stronger sense of community" but there are literally HUNDREDS of other ways a game can accomplish this and be ten times more entertaining than killing the same monster 100,000 times.

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What then would you suggest? Should we have xp events going on 24/7? In that case, the event itself would become a grind, no better than killing the same mobs over and over again out in the field. In my opinion a basic grind is necessary in order to not only give players a viable way to rank up that can also be done at almost any time, but to also make events more appetizing - that is, something else to do besides grinding. If the players just did events all the time, they would eventually grow bored of that and event participants will dwindle.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

On top of that we can explore the world while being part of the game's story without grind parties. Plenty of other MMOs have you doing limitless exploring while taking you along a fun storyline.

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Sounds like questing to me, something that FFXIV already has. Not to mention the main storyline quests now give very good exp. Both can be done either solo or in a group.

Grinding is fun...if the environments are fun....http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post170599 The now infamous "One Long Zone" thread.

Make the environments, the monsters and the progression more diverse and funner, and the grinding doesn't seem like such a grind.

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Originally Posted by Hubert

What then would you suggest? Should we have xp events going on 24/7? In that case, the event itself would become a grind, no better than killing the same mobs over and over again out in the field. In my opinion a basic grind is necessary in order to not only give players a viable way to rank up that can also be done at almost any time, but to also make events more appetizing - that is, something else to do besides grinding. If the players just did events all the time, they would eventually grow bored of that and event participants will dwindle.



Sounds like questing to me, something that FFXIV already has. Not to mention the main storyline quests now give very good exp. Both can be done either solo or in a group.

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Please reread what I've posted originally because I'm telling you this here and now so everyone else can understand:

Just because I disagree with party based monster grinds as a main method of leveling up it does not mean or imply I wish to resort to some cheap, overused stereotype from other MMOs such as questlines for a main mode of progression.

Although I may seem negative in presenting the topic, I truly just want these people on the forum who I think are smart, creative, and really great people to band together and challenge their thought process and come up with new ideas, brainstorm together as a community.

Everyone talks about how grinding parties help instill a sense of community, but how can we even call ourselves a community NOW if people aren't even willing to work together at this very moment to find a way to revolutionize and change this game to be something different and enjoyable for everyone?

There are far more than two sides to this argument. This isn't a matter of whether we have questing or group grinding for leveling up. This is a matter of how can we foster a great community and find creative, fun ways to level up together without making it even feel like one whole xp grind but instead a journey with twists and turns and all sorts of different adventures. Not killing regular monsters for months of your life THEN getting to submerse yourself in the game's content.

It doesn't matter what "it" is that grants experience, "it" simply needs to be fun. FFXIV needs an transfusion of fun; I don't care how they add it.

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Originally Posted by Bloodwolfe

FF has always been a grind fest, from FF1 to FFXIV, part of the grinding experience is exploring new areas, fighting new monsters, making new friends, or even dragging your friends onto the game to play with you, the leve system and quest system is boring, repeating the same quests with the same mobs over and over, kill X here, kill Y over there.

Be happy with the grind, get out there and finally explore, find a strong mob and put yer foot in its arse

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I agree with the general idea you're presenting.. but the problem with that here, is the world is just way to small. It's got 5 real areas to see, within each one just a copy and pasted chunk over and over and nothing interesting to see. With the exception of maybe mor dhona. There's really just not much to explore. A few dungeons in those areas, thats it.
While the area design IS se's fault, the square surface itself isn't really. More surface area didn't come to XI until many expansions, and the same will happen to XIV if it lives that long.

They need to do something about the zones to make them interesting though, because running around is like being stuck on a broken record. Check my map every 30 seconds because there are no discernible landmarks to help me gauge wtf i am.

All in due time though. I hope

Mob grinding is my favorite means of leveling. People who focus on 'the grind' are simply focused on the wrong thing. It's about friendly competition between you and your party mates. It's about peak performance from every member of the team contributing to each fight for faster kills and higher gains.

It's simply the best practice for battle leading up to endgame. Not providing suitable means to do so is detrimental to everyone who aspires to kill the big stuff in endgame. "Cry in the dojo. Laugh on the battlefield."

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I prefer grinding mobs over grinding leves. I just wish SE would set up actual camps where a party could grind old school: Everyone sit at camp, puller pulls mob, people kill mob.

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Go figure it. Its in the Game... <_< We did yesterday a very nice "Oldschool FFXI" Party. Was really nice SP, very fast repops. We were sitting at Camp and Archer was pulling.. we had the time of our lives.. i felt finally like this is the right way to get SP and it was lots of Fun.. And no.. i dont talk about the Beastman-Clusters.

There are TONS of new Camps, which are actually giving you a very nice amount of SP. We found it by looking for a good SP Camp.. and yeah.. we found more. And just a hint.. do 4 Man Parties.

The unfortunate part about 11 was there was only one real way of levelling up until they added abyssea, which made levelling so easy that they never did achieve a balance between grinding and speed. Before abyssea, though, players experimented over time to find the fastest and most enjoyable ways of levelling. I have faith in our community to once again do this with 14, in the event they did make it a grind.

Whilst the 'grind' that we are familiar with now isn't the most exciting thing, it could be we're not at the right camps, not fighting the right monsters, or something completely different.

Personally, though, it would be nice for grinding, leves, new methods of levelling they add, etc, to be equally rewarding so that the focus does not shift to only one. Variety makes anything fun, because even the most grinding of tasks (crafting anyone?) is enjoyable in small doses.

Unfortunately when it comes to thinking of new ideas for levelling I'm completely stumped. :rolleyes:

I remember when Final Fantasy use to mean that you could adventure throughout the story and level up appropriately based solely on how far you've traveled. That has never been the same in FFXI and it seems it will never be the same in FFXIV either. In these two games we seem to have to force ourselves to look, feel and act like any/every other MMO out there. It's quite pathetic and we've completely lost the feel of Final Fantasy. Is it really that hard to make "Final Fantasy" "online"?

We should NOT have to grind anything to progress in any game, period.

i disagree with the OP, grind parties should be a viable and respectable option for ranking up. that's all I have to say.

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Originally Posted by ReapKarmah

I remember when Final Fantasy use to mean that you could adventure throughout the story and level up appropriately based solely on how far you've traveled. That has never been the same in FFXI and it seems it will never be the same in FFXIV either. In these two games we seem to have to force ourselves to look, feel and act like any/every other MMO out there. It's quite pathetic and we've completely lost the feel of Final Fantasy. Is it really that hard to make "Final Fantasy" "online"?

We should NOT have to grind anything to progress in any game, period.

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I often thought this about 11, but the significant difference is an MMORPG is about progression and developing your characters, more than exploring and working through a storyline. The focus of these games never has and probably never will be entirely on the story, unfortunately. I agree with you, though, it would be nice to have more of a story that combines the mandatory progression of an MMORPG with the steady progression necessary.

It's truly a shame because "Final Fantasy" "Online" has so much potential.

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Originally Posted by ReapKarmah

I remember when Final Fantasy use to mean that you could adventure throughout the story and level up appropriately based solely on how far you've traveled.

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You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game experience with that of a single player offline game experience. Is that not blatantly obvious?

You can beat any Final Fantasy, start to finish in 20 hours or less. If it only takes 1 day to get to the top level in an MMO, then whats the point of even having levels?

I don't completely disagree with the OP, but he's not right on the mark. I do disagree with the second post though. I thought the "pull mob to camp" style grind was absolutely horrendous. The grind in XIV seems to be the, "run laps in a circuit". It may be similar but to me it's a world of difference. It actually requires everyone to be there.

The reason I don't completely disagree with the OP is that he's only for multiple ways to level. Surprisingly enough, you never had to grind in XI. Later in XI's life I started a new character and would only level it when I would play with two other people I introduced to the game. What we would do is get a list of quests to run each day, then find the most efficient path to complete those quests. I honestly could say not only did we level fairly quickly, it was only a 3 person party, and we never did the "grind" as we were always en route to a quest objective. I honestly think the game was designed in that way. If you look at the where the mob distributions in each zone and kept track of when and where you needed to fight mobs of a similar level, you ended up going to Jeuno with exp as a biproduct, not carefully sneaking your way through a dangerous zone you weren't ready for.

It's people who let everyone else figure out "the most efficient way to level" and wait for them to post their method somewhere. Sadly, that's a very large part of the XIV community. The fact remains that there are very many different ways to level. Just not, quickly. To some though, quickly isn't necessarily efficiently. I plan on doing Toto-Rak runs as soon as I'm 25 on my CON. That's better than a mindless grind and more efficient because I'm getting more than SP. I'm also getting access to gear and training how to fight tougher monsters in a light party setting. When I'm not doing Toto-Rak, I'll be doing leves, task board turn ins, quests, and company quests for SP.

The option to grind should still be there, but I agree it shouldn't be the only means of SP gain. Don't let the community decide how you play the game. The armoury gives enough freedom for you to figure out your own way. The game is in its infancy and there is still plenty enough stuff out there to figure out for yourself. It's up to each individual whether or not they want to waste their time on a classic grind when there are various ways to get SP and also accomplish other tasks simultaneously.

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Originally Posted by Doho

i disagree with the OP, grind parties should be a viable and respectable option for ranking up. that's all I have to say.

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This^^ But there should also be enough/other options in the game to rank up aside from a 36 hour cd on leves for the ones not interested in grinding parties. (Not including dungeons in this cause the 45 one everyone skips all the mobs and the 25 one majority go in above rank 30 and 25-30 is just on stepping stone for 1-50 >.< Yoshi said he's adding more so it's possible could use dungeons to rank up decently in future. But as it stands, this isn't viable right NOW :P )

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Originally Posted by Korbei

You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game experience with that of a single player offline game experience. Is that not blatantly obvious?

You can beat any Final Fantasy, start to finish in 20 hours or less. If it only takes 1 day to get to the top level in an MMO, then whats the point of even having levels?

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This is why I thought that point allotment should not be so open or based on Physical levels. I would have rather seen an "unlocking" system where your attributes would improve based on the classes you decide to level. Later they could have implemented a "swing" point system with a merit point progression. I think it makes sense that a 50 mage class should not be able to swing all of their attribute points into other areas to max out their caps at 1st level.

I'm definitely agreed with OP on this. I have tried to get many of my friends to play FFXI over the years, but to a man they have always been disgusted by the amount of mindless, boring grinding you have to do to level anything. It takes a lot of grinding to get to even the start of the marginally interesting content in FFXI, and you have to be level capped to do anything really fun. I, too, am tired of this--three years ago i was already getting bored with it, then Abyssea added even more incentive to not just grind on the same exact enemies, but to stay in the same place doing it for hours at a time. It wasn't long after Abyssea came along that I decided to quit.

While I guess there is something to be said for people to have an option to grind, I can't think of a single MMO besides FFXI and this one where people choose to grind when there's an option to do literally anything else, and I've played just about every other MMO out there at some point or another. I'd like to be able do quest content, or leves, or other stuff like, say, an instanced one on one fight with a mob ala lvl70 genkai to really test your skills. Or to do that with one or two friends. Dungeons/raids should stay with full parties, but that should be a "once every x amount of time" thing and not the primary thing you do. I don't think you should be forced to PUG or find a static to grind on mobs mindlessly to level up at an acceptable rate ala FFXI, because that is murder to anyone trying to bring in friends to the game who wasn't already into it, and what this game needs is more players brought in from outside the small insular FFXI community.

Bottom line, variety is the spice of life, and grind parties are as bland and boring as white bread.

I agree, many of the coolest zones and coolest part of said zones got left un-touched in FFXI because all people did was sit in a corner and kill mobs. People never wanted to go to the Orc Stronghold and kill orcs and explore it just because it was a cool place. They wanted to fight beasts because they die quicker and easier. Not only did this affect the way people saw the game, but it also affected some classes in a harsh way like Thief. traits like treasure hunter, gil finder, and mug never got much use as a result and generally made the THF looked upon as nothing more than a puller and mild DPS or someone you used when farming for an item. We need more beastmen, we need a reason to explore and not sit in a camp and chain off leves, and we need more dungeons like what came in 1.18!

Fact of the matter is this is a Final Fantasy game, and in every Final Fantasy game I have ever played you explore the world, you get to see every part of it. In FFXI this wasn't part of the game, some zones were ignored completely, because they were "too hard to camp in" like we're some sort of cowards or have become to xp greedy. You lose sight of what a video game is about, it's about having fun. FFXIV tends to focus too much on aetheryte camps and not enough on this exploration and rewarding those who do explore. It's almost like if you don't want to chain off leves you have to make your own fun in the game, and gamers in this age have become spoiled and 90% of them aren't going to do anything unless you give them a prize behind each door. So I appeal to the developers, give the 90% a reason to explore, that is what being an adventurer is all about, adventuring!

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Originally Posted by Sortis

I agree, many of the coolest zones and coolest part of said zones got left un-touched in FFXI because all people did was sit in a corner and kill mobs. People never wanted to go to the Orc Stronghold and kill orcs and explore it just because it was a cool place. They wanted to fight beasts because they die quicker and easier. Not only did this affect the way people saw the game, but it also affected some classes in a harsh way like Thief. traits like treasure hunter, gil finder, and mug never got much use as a result and generally made the THF looked upon as nothing more than a puller and mild DPS or someone you used when farming for an item. We need more beastmen, we need a reason to explore and not sit in a camp and chain off leves, and we need more dungeons like what came in 1.18!

Fact of the matter is this is a Final Fantasy game, and in every Final Fantasy game I have ever played you explore the world, you get to see every part of it. In FFXI this wasn't part of the game, some zones were ignored completely, because they were "too hard to camp in" like we're some sort of cowards or have become to xp greedy. You lose sight of what a video game is about, it's about having fun. FFXIV tends to focus too much on aetheryte camps and not enough on this exploration and rewarding those who do explore. It's almost like if you don't want to chain off leves you have to make your own fun in the game, and gamers in this age have become spoiled and 90% of them aren't going to do anything unless you give them a prize behind each door. So I appeal to the developers, give the 90% a reason to explore, that is what being an adventurer is all about, adventuring!

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Seeing by your signature, seems like your highest rank is 16. Before when a LOT of people were actually playing this game, not many people worried about leves because grinding crabs and adventuring was the right way to rank up. We traveled far from the aetheryte sometimes and everything was fine. It was the leves that restricted people to aetherytes after the sp changes. Now that sp and battle is different, people are slowly venturing out since leves isn't the most viable way to get sp, and honestly, I don't think it should be.

i see many people are comformist with 0 creativity, grind in mmorpg is boring, 0 creativity
quest with grind, have story but no leve, quest for learn about the story of this place where you got the quest
dungeons is ok
difficult quest, where you need more people for killing very hard mob
this is not FFXI, if you wanna ffxi just back to ffxi, this is ffxiv need be diferent

I have a feeling that people will complain no matter how many different ways they give us to get exp.

I mean really, Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling? But repetitive leves should? At least we have more ways then one to level up... which, are basically the same thing just in different forms.

Leves shouldn't be a main source either as far as I'm concerned but as things stand atm its that or grind parties so people are bound to choose one or the other if they continue to play.

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Originally Posted by Scape

I have a feeling that people will complain no matter how many different ways they give us to get exp.

I mean really, Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling? But repetitive leves should? At least we have more ways then one to level up... which, are basically the same thing just in different forms.

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when behest was main source, people whined they wanted more leve sp
when leves were the main source, people complained they wanted more girnd sp
now that grind sp is up there, people complain behest and leves arent good enough

if its not one thing itl be another

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Well, I have a some ideas, but none of them seem to be within the scope of FFXIV's potential.

Here's a defense scenario.

Invasions within the main cities. Mobs don't "spawn" but literally storm the entrances of the cities. They destroy buildings, kill npcs, set things on fire, the whole 9 yards.

We protect the city, obviously. There would be a limit as to how far outside the city gates we can stand and be able to participate in events like this. We try our best to halt their advance into the city, usually unsuccessful, but still work to force the invaders to retreat with their tails between their legs.

Throughout the event, anyone and everyone can be a target. You would form parties to help ensure your survival. Mobs can drop rare loot, and that rare loot can drop in multiple persons' parties at once (though very rarely, of course.) All mobs reward experience as we defeat them in relation to the amount of actions, damage, enmity you generate per mob (good use of the new enmity algorithms here.) The better we fare at the end of the invasion, the more bonus exp we get for completing it.

After all is said and done, we change to our crafting classes and begin to rebuild the broken walls and burned homes, and heal the injured NPCs. We can also change to our gathering classes and, just outside the city, gather materials to help rebuild our city that is now in shambles. Again, throughout this, we will also have a chance of receiving rare items, the chance of which depends on how well we did with defending the city.

So there you go. One way to progress, that doesn't feel like a grind, and includes EVERY CLASS IN THE GAME.

But ask yourself this. Do any of you really think that this could be possible in FFXIV? I don't know.. but I have my doubts.

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I have to agree that this would be a great addition to FFXIV, but I also know it would be quite difficult to implement. BUT not impossible. Especially with the "World Reconstruction" they are working on.

Basically to make the entire city destructible would probably be impossible. but it would be quite possible to make a lot of new buildings (and turn some old ones) into what I am going to call "key structures".

Key structures are buildings set to be blown up, smashed, torn apart, or otherwise dismantled by our enemies. This is done by making multiple models of the buildings in different states of disrepair and animations (or just let parts come off and let the physics engine take over) to be played once a building goes from one state to another. Each key structure is then given an HP so that they can be destroyed. They then set the building to show different models at a certain amount of HP.

This could also promote other forms of grinding. Mob killing parties have a new purpose as killing mobs can reduce the intensity of their raids of cities. Getting together with other crafters can help strengthen city defenses, making NCP guards stronger and more affective in battle. And gathers can bring in money before the battle to help with repairs after the raid is over.

Maybe as a way to encourage exploring the game world part of the zone redesigns could include a kind of zone-wide puzzle/ treasure hunt. Follow some clues, do some exploring, see cool new places and pick up some trinket. When you've completed all the hunts in a given zone the trinkets combine into something that you either turn into an NPC for a cosmetic item or something along those lines. Maybe in some cases the combined item is your reward (ancient chocobo armor anyone?).

SE could have a lot of fun with something like that, there are plenty of ways to make it interesting, obviously its not a core issue right now but it would encourage people to get out and see things when really there's no reason to right now other than to say you've done it. People like novelty items. Over time real content could be added out into the far areas of the zones. When players are out doing their hunts a little extra exploration would have them running into some real content.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I prefer grinding mobs over grinding leves. I just wish SE would set up actual camps where a party could grind old school: Everyone sit at camp, puller pulls mob, people kill mob.

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Actually they do exist.. I've seen several of them around, they just arn't known yet, since ppl havn't figured them out yet. I've seen several good ones around treespeak. Give it some time, people will find them, and pts will start to get these all figured out.

And as for this post.. I understand the authors greef to an extent. Some jobs are just fun to grind though, however for a pt to be something good, I feel that we will have to wait for chains for the real fun to start. It was always fun in XI to work hard to keep a chian going, it was 1/2 the fun.

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Originally Posted by Korbei

You cannot compare a massively multiplayer game experience with that of a single player offline game experience. Is that not blatantly obvious?

You can beat any Final Fantasy, start to finish in 20 hours or less. If it only takes 1 day to get to the top level in an MMO, then whats the point of even having levels?

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Even so, this is Final Fantasy in the end. There is no real reason to have to conform to every other MMO out there and make it so boring when it has such huge potential to be far more than it is. Having to grind to level up in any MMO is pathetic and time wasting. I'd rather go back to work!

I'm sure I'm being completely reasonable expecting the same top-line experience from XIV that we've had with previous Final Fantasy titles in the past.

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Originally Posted by RemnantWolf

I have to agree that this would be a great addition to FFXIV, but I also know it would be quite difficult to implement. BUT not impossible. Especially with the "World Reconstruction" they are working on.

Basically to make the entire city destructible would probably be impossible. but it would be quite possible to make a lot of new buildings (and turn some old ones) into what I am going to call "key structures".

Key structures are buildings set to be blown up, smashed, torn apart, or otherwise dismantled by our enemies. This is done by making multiple models of the buildings in different states of disrepair and animations (or just let parts come off and let the physics engine take over) to be played once a building goes from one state to another. Each key structure is then given an HP so that they can be destroyed. They then set the building to show different models at a certain amount of HP.

This could also promote other forms of grinding. Mob killing parties have a new purpose as killing mobs can reduce the intensity of their raids of cities. Getting together with other crafters can help strengthen city defenses, making NCP guards stronger and more affective in battle. And gathers can bring in money before the battle to help with repairs after the raid is over.

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I agree that it's definitely possible to make content like this in FFXIV. My doubt stems from SE's unlikely decision to do so.

I think most of us, even Yoshi-P and the Dev team, would agree with your explanation of how it would work behind the scenes. The problem is that it would take hundreds of development hours to complete something like this, something SE might not view as worthwhile, at least for the time being. It's definitely possible though, perhaps probable in the game's future. But for now, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I have other ideas as well, but they're pointless to post since most of them are on about the same level as far as development time goes. Ideas too soon for their time, maybe I'll share in a year or two when SE has time to take suggestions like these seriously.

No offense to SE or the Dev team of course. I'm positive they're capable of designing content like this. But right now, fixing the game is at the top of their list, and rightly so.

At least you can get a grind party I usually sit in Ul'dah all day everyday, shouting and putting recruitment up and never get parties or dungeon runs so I just stay the same level lol

should be a OPTION

How are we supposed to level without repeatedly killing mobs in some form?
-do quest kill x mobs at y location
-guildleves kill mobs while running around like a retard
-grinding kill mobs in set location (in future when chains are added, i bet these complainers would quit complaining when they're faces melt off with high chain sp, but then again they prob won't make it into that party cause they're so against grinding mobs over and over again)

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

Hi Ventus and All,

It's a very good question & topic. I guess the big picture question is:

* What *do* you do in an MMO (specifically RPG) that would be a better way to increase / improve / get better / grow?

Even offline RPGs, the "classic grind" of killing monsters throughout the world to level up and get better has been around since the earliest of days.

I think with unlimited budget and unlimited manpower, a "dream scenario" for leveling up / progressing / getting better in an MMORPG for me would be:

• Going on interesting, engaging, challenging *Adventures* with Story & Lore, with friends / strangers in a party, and growing stronger from it.
  
  Specifically, imagine the level of quality from "Chains of Promathea" Story Missions: The amazing cinematography, interesting storyline, production values, and unlocking new lands, etc.
  
  Imagine if doing each Mission (with a challenging difficulty) rewarded Players with lots of XP / SP and you could gain Levels that way.

THAT would be my ideal way to "level" in an MMORPG. :)

But I think we all agree, the production costs would be astronomical. I don't think they can provide that level of quality, writing, storytelling, missions, new areas, challenging content *fast enough* and with enough of them, to satisfy the Hardcore MMO players (who'd get through content too fast), Average gamers or Casual gamers (only can put in a few hours per week).

So what else can an MMORPG do to "fill the void"? It's a tough question. Some people loved Conquest, Ein, Dynamis, Sky, BCNMs, etc., in FF XI. And that's a game that had years under its belt before it had a breadth of content for it later.

Is it through Questing (with good production values, cinematics, etc.)? Probably not feasible.

Could it be through an *interesting* Combat System (via Parties)? Possibly.

If this new Final Fantasy Job System with revamped Skillchains (or some Dynamic Combat Layer (like developing something from Chrono Trigger, etc.)) could be added, with ways to develop interesting methods to kill monsters, that in-and-of-itself could be a great, fun way to spend hours battling through various mobs around Eorzea (with friends). That would make "grinding" less tedious for sure.

But after a while even that would get repetitive.

I think the answer lies with balance of a variety of things to do.

If they add in a Chocobo Raising System (like Final Fantasy VII (Gold Saucer Chocobo Races! :)), added in other interesting things to do, that's something else that keeps people interested.

I'd like there to be something else besides the Grind. I'd say 1.18 is a start in the right direction (with Dungeons that you can SP in, with some production values, Class System changes, and Grand Companies). I'm curious to see what else comes from 1.19 and 1.20.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Seeing by your signature, seems like your highest rank is 16. Before when a LOT of people were actually playing this game, not many people worried about leves because grinding crabs and adventuring was the right way to rank up. We traveled far from the aetheryte sometimes and everything was fine. It was the leves that restricted people to aetherytes after the sp changes. Now that sp and battle is different, people are slowly venturing out since leves isn't the most viable way to get sp, and honestly, I don't think it should be.

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Recently came back to the game and deleted my old character(wanted a fresh start) but yeah I get what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

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Actually there are private servers for people that complain in that way...very small, and highly pvp ghost towns.

their method of leveling /addexp 9999999

You're either running the same repeatable quest, the same repeatable dungeon, or the same repeatable monster...not much difference. Maybe if you paid a little more, you can have some text to go with that repetition.

Well that is true. I didn't think that me posting the explanation would make it happen. I just wanted to have a bit of hope, a little fun brainstorming how it would work, and I knew that I wouldn't lose anything for doing so. That plus there may be a chance (though as likely to happen as finding one specific grain of sand in the desert -scale of exaggeration may vary-) that they may decide to do it and seeing how I said to to it may save them a meeting or two (sometimes deciding on the mechanics of something like this is half the battle).

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Originally Posted by Scape

I have a feeling that people will complain no matter how many different ways they give us to get exp.

I mean really, Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling? But repetitive leves should? At least we have more ways then one to level up... which, are basically the same thing just in different forms.

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You obviously haven't read enough posts I've made in this thread because you just assumed a plethora of things right there. Please think before posting. No where did I endorse or support repeating leves mindlessly as a better alternative.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

How are we supposed to level without repeatedly killing mobs in some form?
-do quest kill x mobs at y location
-guildleves kill mobs while running around like a retard
-grinding kill mobs in set location (in future when chains are added, i bet these complainers would quit complaining when they're faces melt off with high chain sp, but then again they prob won't make it into that party cause they're so against grinding mobs over and over again)

Seriously every mmo in the world has some mechanic that is boring and repetitive, if you don't like it make your own mmo.

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I think it's more about making this mandatory grind in every RPG, which I do acknowledge exists, seemless to the point where players are having enough fun to not even notice they are grinding mountains of xp.

That's the topic being discussed: how can we make a better mode of leveling besides beating our brains out on common monsters in the world for hours with no content or substance surrounding it?

As someone else pointed out, grinding mobs allows for limited exploration as many zones go untouched because they are deemed "too difficult to camp in" so we need to find a way to immerse ourselves in this world of Eorzea without this limit.

I find it confusing how people say grinding has you exploring the world when you really set up a CAMP in one spot and stay there >.<. Doesn't sound like nearly as much exploring is going on as there could be.

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Originally Posted by Ventus

I think it's more about making this mandatory grind in every RPG, which I do acknowledge exists, seemless to the point where players are having enough fun to not even notice they are grinding mountains of xp.

That's the topic being discussed: how can we make a better mode of leveling besides beating our brains out on common monsters in the world for hours with no content or substance surrounding it?

As someone else pointed out, grinding mobs allows for limited exploration as many zones go untouched because they are deemed "too difficult to camp in" so we need to find a way to immerse ourselves in this world of Eorzea without this limit.

I find it confusing how people say grinding has you exploring the world when you really set up a CAMP in one spot and stay there >.<. Doesn't sound like nearly as much exploring is going on as there could be.

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Yes it's call paying more for more and better content. That's the model of F2P and DLCs. You can choose those type of business models...they'll be glad to hire a building full of writers and creators if you can sustain their profit margins.

MMO has to live within the rules of MMO.

I actually believe the best to gain exp and become emersed in the story line/game should be via quest completion, not simply grinding, thus as your going through the motion of completing a quest your also gain exp from you actions. However the quests themself/ leves are quite boring at times.

Also I have found in this game players do not seem to communicate much at all unlike say lineage 2. Which doesn't really help much when looking to form parties to gain exp.