Relic quest summary -> Good by to casuals

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Originally Posted by Vallug

Serious question. So like someone said, I cant see myself doing this on every alt..if I wanna play a diff class alot though without grinding my relic what weapon do I go with then? Like as of current patch do I grind Levi for the weapon drop and that is what is current?

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Good luck to get the mirror for your alts, its already hard enough to get one for the main...

The relic grind is a time sink for the players without the skill or drive to finish coil.

If a player attempting coil might take 2 months to down T9 and longer for their weapon to drop, why shouldn't someone taking the easy route have to wait 2 months to get a nearly equal ilvl weapon? If you want something faster finish T7 and 8. Quit bitching about time sinks being time sinks.

Haven't started the novus portion yet so idk, but if what OP says is true odds are by the time people finish the upgrade the next coil will be out and better stuff will be available anyway >_>

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

**** TITLE TYPO ERROR : Goodbye**

Relic weapon : 1 dungeon, 3 primals, 2 trials, long quest -> 1-2 days
Zenith Weapon : 900 Myth -> 2-3 days
Atma : 20-30h Fate grind -> A week or 2 of only grinding
Animus : 13500 Myth -> About a month or 2 depending on your grind
Novus : 60000 Myth OR 75 days of map -> 75++ Days if doing daily quest + materia melding failure wasted days

In my case, I don't even have Animus yet, getting novus will take approx 150 days as i don't play everyday. If I start now, novus will be my christmas gift

Conclusion : The relic weapon quest is ABSOLUTLY NOT for casual anymore.... /wave casual. As a semi casual 10h++ a week. I think it's a /Goodbye relic-novus-whatever after novus quest

P.S I'm wondering who will really attempts novus quest except hardcores

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That's the reason I'm sticking to my puny Mog gloves. The moment it will be impossible to me to play the game due to that, I'll quit the game. :P

The whole casual vs hardcore definition is down to personal interpretation. I put in more hours than the "casual gamer", but i'm not a hardcore player. I take my time with other aspects of the game. I do dungeons when i can be bothered, I love to craft, I'll FATE grind when i feel like it.

Ultimately the whole argument comes down to one question - How much do you want the uprades?
I've got the Step 1 of my Relic, chances are at some point down the line i WILL do the upgrades. I won't go grindfest crazy on them, i'll do them a bit at a time, not burn myself out on it all. Will new weapons be out by the time i do the Novus? Probably, makes no difference to me.

It's all about the game. Why race everyone else, take your time, enjoy your game. Only person that loses out when you clear all the content that's currently out, is yourself.

Why can't "hardcore" (I don't actually believe there are more than a handful of actual hardcore players per server. I think it'd be more accurate to say avid gamers. People who have the time to play, but aren't attack drones programmed with one goal of clearing the hardest content as fast as possible) have something to spend their time doing? Casuals can go from Relic to Zenith to Leviathan to Weathered Soldiery to 110 Soldiery to High Allagan. It's a natural progression that can easily be done in stages over a few months. The end result is still High Allagan so I guess all this talk about Novus is moot anyways.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

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Thanks, but I don't NEED enlightenment. I got by just fine with a Zenith in all content. I even dabbled into the Extremes and Coil...I'm as casual as they come and guess what? I have an animus.


On another note, I also realize some people have this desire to be pioneers, etc. Well guess what at my age after like 20 years of MMO's, you don't give a shit anymore. It's a waste of energy because half of those MMO's are still around and so is the content.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

On another note, I also realize some people have this desire to be pioneers, etc. Well guess what at my age after like 20 years of MMO's, you don't give a shit anymore. It's a waste of energy because half of those MMO's are still around and so is the content.

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True, same for me. After 2 decades of aiming and obtaining world/server first over several MMO's and always aiming to be #1 Guild/Fc, you start to not care about it anymore. I see it like driving a car; when i got my license almost 17 years ago, i always wanted to be the "king of the road". Fastest car, driving like there is no tomorrow and so on. Today i don't give a damn anymore, let those young people do what they do, i will arrive at my destinaton at the pace i want. May be a bit slower, but does not make the destination less worth.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

The relic grind is a time sink for the players without the skill or drive to finish coil.

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The take on relic has been unpleasant for many that take the approach since the introduction of Atma.

While there has been an increase in more ways to obtain these upgrades the end result are leading to exceedingly exaggerated level of farming & time sink in the most unpleasant fashion possible.

A lot of players that were looking forward to their Animus got their wills broken by the fact that farming the 12 pieces of atma to only give you an ilvl upgrade was gonna be painful when you had to deal with RNG and inventory issues. Then it was followed by the Animus which many players found ridiculous to have to farm that much amount of overall myth.

Novus is pushing that limit of people's tolerance by making the farm now add the possibility of having your time, money, and effort amount to a waste due to there being a % chance to succeed.

So as far as Novus goes.
Casual players and solo players are ending up punished if they take the guaranteed route since if they get Mythril Golem or Cyclops they are most likely to fail. Decent players, especially geared and have a decent chocobo on them are gonna find a hard time doing those 2 spawns as well unless they improvise and use ingenious stratagems to tackle those mobs.

Sure you can group up and tackle these maps for a guaranteed Alexandrite but players are tackling these maps solo. So getting people that prefer solo play to open up to the idea of asking for help inside and outside their FC and LS by making PF groups and waiting it out is not gonna really end well with many.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

If a player attempting coil might take 2 months to down T9 and longer for their weapon to drop, why shouldn't someone taking the easy route have to wait 2 months to get a nearly equal ilvl weapon? If you want something faster finish T7 and 8. Quit bitching about time sinks being time sinks.

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Sorry but that's not a proper comparison. The equivalent form is that akin to downing T9 but it never dropping the weapon for your job.

I am casual, and for me, it's not the grind, but how fast they are adding the next upgrade. I have 1/9 of animus books complete so you can see I have a long way yet to go before even thinking about novus. The problem is that soon 2.3 will arrive with probably another upgrade grind. It's just going to leave me too far behind to ever catch up.

That's why this artificial way of producing "content" is so terrible. It was terrible in XI and it's terrible here. I've just started my relic quest, and between work and college I can play maybe an hour or two a day. That relic is super important though - to the point where people have told me not to bother coming to their groups without it. So, casuals will be locked out of content that they don't have the time to grind out because the quest is poorly designed. I don't mind gear that is gated behind difficulty in the least; in fact, isn't that why we play? To conquer hard content and get that feeling of accomplishment from taking down a difficult encounter?

On the other hand, it's mostly just "omg thank the twelve its FINALLY OVER" when you are gated behind gathering 9999999 of currency x. Add to that the fact that the next patch will update it yet again for those who DO have that kind of time, and you end up with a serious problem for large portion of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Honestly, I don't mind the time sink either. It's when the time sink is utterly tedious(Atma), goes against what the lead developer said(Look at my sig), come to find out is even more BS due to more information from the lead developer(Animus books aren't actually the original, potentially "hard to find in Eorzea" copies that we were told, in game, they'd be, thus making their cost even more idiotic), that I begin to have issues.

For the relic upgrades, as I said before, aside from the myth buy-in to start Novus, I don't have a single problem with how it appears to be. The Atma/Animus situation on the other hand.....

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Hmm, yeah, I see your point concerning the Atma/Animus grind as it was most certainly tedious...but even then it's all in how people approach it. I should hold off from judging the Novus grind as well until I dive deeper into it, as a whole I suppose it isn't entirely too bad.

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Originally Posted by Nero

True, same for me. After 2 decades of aiming and obtaining world/server first over several MMO's and always aiming to be #1 Guild/Fc, you start to not care about it anymore. I see it like driving a car; when i got my license almost 17 years ago, i always wanted to be the "king of the road". Fastest car, driving like there is no tomorrow and so on. Today i don't give a damn anymore, let those young people do what they do, i will arrive at my destinaton at the pace i want. May be a bit slower, but does not make the destination less worth.

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QFT.
Haven't even gotten my atma yet and only 4/12s on it since patch day. I make the most of my atma farms by SBing in it too for some profit (yeah gil is worthless... to the guy who said it is), and sure people will wonder why bother making shitty materia.

Meh... loh and behold you need the shitty materia for the novus. Guess I'll win this relic race as the tortoise since everyone is being the hare; blowing millions on materia and losing their shit on alexandrite when hunts aren't even out yet.

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Originally Posted by Renik

you guys are missing the point, i don't think the problem is the time, top tier weapon should require a lot of time, the problem is the myth grinding, the 90% of the quest is just running the same 3 dungeons hundreds of times to get 60k tomes, getting 13500 for the animus is plain boring but 60k tomes sounds more like a april fools joke, that's just bad design.

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Grinding to a legendary weapon is par for the course in Final Fantasy games. In X you had to play through a lot of blitzball matches to get Waka's weapon, or do the lighting jumping game 200 times in a row without failing to get Lulu's. In XIII you farmed mobs for rare drops, and you needed a lot of them. I've been told the requirements were just as grindy in some of the early games as well. It's a grind, and you have to really really want it to do it, but no content actually requires it to clear, so it's a totally optional grind.

Personally, I'm just playing the waiting game as far as the Novus goes.

The Animus is good enough to clear all content though 2.3 anyway. So, I'm just going to let everyone who is in a hurry do all the grunt work and make mistakes, then I will swoop in later and do mine right the first time.

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Originally Posted by Luxx

You will have alternatives though....I hope... they may give you one for the Novus here in 2.3 or something.

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There will be, IIRC Ramuh will have a weapon, though I don't recall the iLV or if an iLV was even mention in the last LL

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Originally Posted by Fenseven

I'd like to point out that the 1st step can be done within a few hours of hitting 50 and picking up the quest.

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Then comes Titan. He himself takes quite some time LOL. Good luck if you're doing it solo and on your way to DF.

Anyways, there has nothing to do hardcores or casuals. There's nothing hard by obtaining the Atma or Animus.
It requires: Patience, Diligence, Dedication, Time , and some snacks. :D
I only have the last one, because I ain't patient and I wanna do Levi for the cool lookin' book!
You will have alternatives though....I hope... they may give you one for the Novus here in 2.3 or something.
It's a grind, a mindless grind fest. No skills or thought required. ;c
By the time you guys did all this, you'd probably have the High Allagan stuff from
T9. xD Which I believe the Novus is a lesser to it anyway. Seems more fun to me and something
I willing to try my best to get.

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Originally Posted by kuikui

I am casual, and for me, it's not the grind, but how fast they are adding the next upgrade. I have 1/9 of animus books complete so you can see I have a long way yet to go before even thinking about novus. The problem is that soon 2.3 will arrive with probably another upgrade grind. It's just going to leave me too far behind to ever catch up.

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Must have started late on the Relic? Took me 5 weeks to do Atma(1week)/Animus(4weeks) and I'm a forced Casual ATM. Honestly I really don't See SE adding in the next part of the Relic in 2.3, I say we have 2-3 weeks before 2.3 and there are probably going to be a small handful of players with a Novus. They delayed Novus because only a small portion of the player base had Animus, so expect the same. Getting the Materia for the Novus is the easy part, People need to stop buying these over priced materia cause you can't even get Novus until you have 75 Alexandrite. When 2.3 hit obtaining Alex should become a little bit faster with Hunts, So long as there isn't a lockout. So catching up isn't going to be an issue for anyone. Unless you start a week before the patch.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

so it's a totally optional grind.

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This whole game is optional, what's your point?

Well as an Australian playing on a primarily NA server that raids with an FC that is comprised of Americans. I find that the times I can get on are when most of my fc are sleeping so having something I can do myself is always good. That's why I don't mind that Novus will probably take me awhile. Sure ill probably get my high Allagan first (On T8 currently) but who knows maybe RNG will be bad for me like it was with twinc so having something else as a backup is never a bad thing.

I think most ppl jumping on those that do not like the relic quest do not realise that all this hardwork/grind is not really the issue if the end product is worth the grind. Relic is only as good as upgraded soldiery weapon but is much more work.

The so-called customisation means very little as there will be cookie cutter ones as secondary stats mean so little and certain stats are just better than others.

(Carry on from above, can't edit on phone)

Surely ppl can say the quest carries on upgrading till 2.35. But who is to know what will happen beyond that. It might become trash after cos the ilv of items continue to grow. There is low incentive for ppl to grind it out. By the time ppl finished grinding, it might become patch 2.4/2.5 and it becomes trash already. So all that hardwork for nothing.

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Originally Posted by chococo

I think most ppl jumping on those that do not like the relic quest do not realise that all this hardwork/grind is not really the issue if the end product is worth the grind. Relic is only as good as upgraded soldiery weapon but is much more work.

The so-called customisation means very little as there will be cookie cutter ones as secondary stats mean so little and certain stats are just better than others.

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There has to be a sacrifice for getting something that takes less skill and co-ordination to get. In this case it means you have to grind for longer and get slightly weaker weapon. Don't like it? Do the hard content and get the skilled players weapon. Or were you expecting the strongest weapon in the game to come from some of the easiest content in the game?

SE simply took the feedback of the players in 2.20-2.25.

Many players agreed with the grind and were in full support of it taking a long time. Let's be realistic here, SE wants subs, long lasting subs. What better way to do that other than introducing timesinks for people. The only people that have a problem with this are those who want to burn through content as fast as possible. SE isn't able to pump out content at those speeds so they'll need timesinks like these to keep players occupied.

The real problem here is that relics will simply never be worth investing so much time into. Don't get me wrong though, no other gear would be either. The ilevel system in this game makes the gear disposable (or replaceable) after every single major patch. Creating an item that has a built in grind lasting longer than the actual patch does simply doesn't make any logical sense, it will be obsolete before you ever obtain it. And that's assuming it's top tier to begin with, which it is not and hasn't been for any of the upgrades past zenith. Frankly, even Novus which was introduced just a few days ago is still outclassed by other weapons released in the 2.2 patch.

To put it bluntly, the game model Yoshida chose for FFXIV necessitates quick, simple gear progression. Challenging, perhaps, but grind is simply not an option if you want to stay true to the linear nature of gear progress.

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

There has to be a sacrifice for getting something that takes less skill and co-ordination to get. In this case it means you have to grind for longer and get slightly weaker weapon. Don't like it? Do the hard content and get the skilled players weapon. Or were you expecting the strongest weapon in the game to come from some of the easiest content in the game?

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Like i said, another person that jumps the gun. Point is like someone posted above, grinding in a game where stuff is readily disposable does not make sense. Gear designed for casuals that cannot be reached by casuals means wasted content

Depends on how long you intend to play for. I mean the point of an MMORPG is that it's intended to run long term, hell FFXI is still going after like 12 years and I know people who have been playing that for the entire duration. If people go into it thinking they ought to be able to do everything in just a few months, then that's the wrong way to look at it. The relic quest is optional content that is designed for people who are prepared to sink a lot of time into it knowing that it is a goal to work for. Not necessarily the best gear, but a long term achievement nonetheless. If someone isn't prepared to do that, then that content isn't intended for them. They should stop complaining and do something they consider more worthwhile.

I'll throw in my two gil -

I played back in 1.0. Remade my character on a non-legacy for 2.0 (Brand new, full leveling to get enjoyment from the game.) I've been an end-game raider since pre-2.1, though I didn't advance as fast as others. With 2.2, I advanced faster - hit turn 9 (Cleared T8 early) and had my i110 weapon early on thanks to the bias given to DPS jobs.

However, I will say - this recent trend with Relics and weapons in general, has me burning out, and I've started to look towards other avenues. I'll admit I've started to look at Wildstar - and it's been tempting to want to quit FFXIV Because of how bad the grind in it for things that I feel should've been personal challenge/skill oriented, instead of.... whatever this abomination we have right now is.

I'm sure, though, that even Wildstar will be a grind. Hell, 15 levels in and I already said "Holy **** this is a grind" a number of times. Even still, I think that's more acceptable as a grind than this end-game grind to get an i110 weapon for -one- class, when I as a DPS / tank play multiple (Main goon, Main warrior, Main Black Mage, Main Bard - these are my jobs.)

I much preferred the old method. Content that could be mastered by any player - Titan Hard Mode served as a -great- gate. I think that part of the issue was putting Titan HM as progression to reach Coil-content : They made relics required. If you had to clear Good King Moogle EX as well as Levi EX and maybe a custom set of Relic bosses for the new Atma/Novus quest, I would've been much happier - because we'd be getting new content mixed with challenging content. Things that we could progress on and enjoy as we mastered each class/role in those fights.

But instead, we basically got sent back to leveling and spamming Myth runs - and I'm sorry, I just don't find those fun. But, that is an overly subjective arguement - I could be a minority, I could be a majority, I'll never know - I just know how I personally feel.

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Originally Posted by chococo

Like i said, another person that jumps the gun. Point is like someone posted above, grinding in a game where stuff is readily disposable does not make sense. Gear designed for casuals that cannot be reached by casuals means wasted content

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Who said it was designed for casuals? If anything it was aimmed at all the people who wanted a weapon gated by time sink because the regular relic quest was just too easy. As well as the players who wanted to get a good weapon without having to do raids or primals or any sort of challenging content. Not necessarily casual players. Solo players if anything

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

If you had to clear Good King Moogle EX as well as Levi EX and maybe a custom set of Relic bosses for the new Atma/Novus quest, I would've been much happier - because we'd be getting new content mixed with challenging content. Things that we could progress on and enjoy as we mastered each class/role in those fights.

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Those challenges would have to be at least as hard as clearing t8 to not undermine raid progression, and if they did that then they would defeat their stated purpose for the relics as well as there being a torrent of complaints putting us back to square one.

Really I just think their whole approach is flawed and these two models of gear progression do not mix well. They are being very reactionary with their design lately and trying to please everyone, instead they should just dig their heels in and pick a model of progression. They're not going to satisfy everyone.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Depends on how long you intend to play for. I mean the point of an MMORPG is that it's intended to run long term, hell FFXI is still going after like 12 years and I know people who have been playing that for the entire duration. If people go into it thinking they ought to be able to do everything in just a few months, then that's the wrong way to look at it. The relic quest is optional content that is designed for people who are prepared to sink a lot of time into it knowing that it is a goal to work for. Not necessarily the best gear, but a long term achievement nonetheless. If someone isn't prepared to do that, then that content isn't intended for them. They should stop complaining and do something they consider more worthwhile.

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Do you know what "BurnOut" means?
Novus is not even the end of the Rope!
When you argue with "long time event" to defend a single part like "Novus", then you are telling me to farm years for Novus just to see there are 10+ other "steps" after Novus who require again same ammount of time? (I tryed to use high numbers, so you can see the big picture better). The argument with "long time" is poor when using it to defend Novus, and NO ONE expect the "defenders" bringing up the argument about finishing it within a day...

It seems you do not have good arguments, so you try to attack the complainers with the intention to defend a poor designed content...
And you already prove that with your last few words saying: "just go away if you dont like it!"

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Originally Posted by OmniEx

Who said it was designed for casuals? If anything it was aimmed at all the people who wanted a weapon gated by time sink because the regular relic quest was just too easy. As well as the players who wanted to get a good weapon without having to do raids or primals or any sort of challenging content. Not necessarily casual players. Solo players if anything

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Hardcores with skill go for coil stuff. Hardcores with time but no skill - not that many i believe
Casuals with skill go for coil stuff cos they can complete in their play time anyway.
Casual with no skill - cant do coil and maybe even primals resort to relic?

Even at your laziest you can easily get one thing for novus per day. The myth and other aspects are bonuses that require a little effort to get more of faster.

The relic is one of several i100+ weapons you have the option of getting, and honestly if you aren't doing any of the content that the other i100 weapons are gated behind you don't need the ilvl anyway. If you don't like the requirements to get novus, then don't freakin get it.

I play the game because it's a Final Fantasy title... and I'm in it for the story. If there are going to be never-ending, monstrous time-sink bars to unlocking the continuing story... I am always going to be so far behind I might as well call it quits now.

So... are the Atma/Animus/Zodiac/Novus weapons required to complete content that unlocks the main story progression?

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I play the game because it's a Final Fantasy title... and I'm in it for the story. If there are going to be never-ending, monstrous time-sink bars to unlocking the continuing story... I am always going to be so far behind I might as well call it quits now.

So... are the Atma/Animus/Zodiac/Novus weapons required to complete content that unlocks the main story progression?

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The relic questline does not contribute to the main story questline.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Even at your laziest you can easily get one thing for novus per day. The myth and other aspects are bonuses that require a little effort to get more of faster.

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Not true, because it requires you have already finished Animus, the GATE to progress is closed... catching up is delayed... doom for all who havnt done Animus before patchday!

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I play the game because it's a Final Fantasy title... and I'm in it for the story. If there are going to be never-ending, monstrous time-sink bars to unlocking the continuing story... I am always going to be so far behind I might as well call it quits now.

So... are the Atma/Animus/Zodiac/Novus weapons required to complete content that unlocks the main story progression?

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Not much story there more like "go there, get this it gives power to the weaponz, then get that to enhance that powa!" stuff lol

I guess the first relic quests had some minor story tidbits about the weapons but nothing major as far as I can remember and well, that quest isnt hardcore one at all anyway so you can do it yourself easily even if casual

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Novus : 60000 Myth OR 75 days of map -> 75++ Days if doing daily quest + materia melding failure wasted days

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Getting the Alexandrite is probably around an average of 40 mins on different 75 days, for mostly doing something most casual people would be doing anyway (the expert roulette) and a quick treasure map. So 50 hours spread over 2 months. Plus just doing that one roulette would be 71 days since it would give 4 maps worth of myth in the process.

And when 2.3 drops, more ways to get Alexandrite (the hunts) will be added, which should reduce the time further.

Spiritbinding for the lower tier materia is fast, the quest is most punishing if you want to min/max and focus on putting all the points in the best stats. Spreading it out between 3-5 stats keeps the costs of this part down, and you get gil from roulette.

It might take 75 days on a time scale, but probably closer to 70-80 hours on an effort basis.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

I play the game because it's a Final Fantasy title... and I'm in it for the story. If there are going to be never-ending, monstrous time-sink bars to unlocking the continuing story... I am always going to be so far behind I might as well call it quits now.

So... are the Atma/Animus/Zodiac/Novus weapons required to complete content that unlocks the main story progression?

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The relict questlines are no part of the mainstory and are not require for the mainstory (of course only if the party leader want you to have one. In this situation, search for another party).
They are optional weapon story.

so the mobs are difficult, big deal. its an lvl 110 weapon, it should require both time and skill to get.

Probably not about casual or hardcore.
More about you have enough will to grind or not.

I see some casual who slowly play day by day, never play second coil, but already have Animus. I see some hardcore (including me), who can't stand myth farming and go for high allagan way only.