Thurmaturge OWNED

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Originally Posted by Shika

Nope... CON specific ^^

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*gasp* How bold.

Muahahahaha glad I started leveling up my CON again.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I didn't even know you could multi-target Siphon MP before >.>

Anyways, CON is now the main healing class, or you can just cross-class Curega and Curega II probably.

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No.

[dev1032] The following conjurer-specific spells have been introduced:
Raise II
Restore the breath of life, reviving a KO’d target.
Weakness and Brink of Death effects last for 1 minute.
Learned: Conjurer, Rank 38
Cast Time: 10 sec. Recast Time: 2.5 min. / MP Cost: 186 / Action Bar Cost: 2
Rebirth
Restore the breath of life, reviving a KO’d target.
Target suffers no Weakness or Brink of Death effects.
Learned: Conjurer, Rank 50
Cast Time: 10 sec. Recast Time: 30 min. / MP Cost: 231 / Action Bar Cost: 2
Curega
Grant succor and ease suffering, restoring HP of the target and nearby party members.
Learned: Conjurer, Rank 16
Cast Time: 2 sec. Recast Time: 10 sec. / MP Cost: 112 / Action Bar Cost: 2
Curega II
Grant succor and ease suffering, restoring HP of the target and nearby party members.
Learned: Conjurer, Rank 30
Cast Time: 2 sec. Recast Time: 10 sec. / MP Cost: 187 / Action Bar Cost: 2

So who keeps fk'ing missing just how strong THM's offensive ability already is? Aside from crappy cooldowns on Dia/Bio, THM will be a DD that can also drop heals with insanely potent regens.

Sure, people who think that everything has to play like FFXI will rage, but I'll still happily take a THM to a dungeon, that's 2 roles filled with 1 party slot, both of which it will do effectively enough.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

I am very unpleased with this shift in change to THM. I do belive that THM was OP, but they just nerfed it to the point where no one is going to want them in the party. I see with the time limit on raids people are going to want 1-2tanks,4-5DD's, and 2 main healers. So 1-2tank's,4-5dd's, and 2main healers. Skillful play, is good, but doesnt Yoshi-P want us to have the freedom to play how we want to?? These changes are forcing us to play classes specfic to there roles, and not venture out and play solo to accomplish the same goals as a party setup would. I loved rdm of ffxi, because if you had the skillset you could solo all the content in the game. What happened to fostering solo gameplay!? These changes are suggesting that you play with a group and play the specific role, and be locked into that role. So elitest, can now boast about how much better they are than everyone else.. That however doesnt bother me soo much, just doesnt give the game the kind of freedom it had before this nerf. Higher costs of mp is rediculious! "MP management" you people say!! You do realize Curaga II==> 186MP!? That is insane! I have 1400mp as a 50con/thm, yes i play both, and that is about 7times i can cast a very important spell, that doesnt include the other spells that are just important, raise, rebirth, ect. I embrace the challenge, but at the same time i dislike this nerf, and raising the mp consumption was a very bad call. I have supported all the changes, and reforms to this game, until i read these patch notes today. I am not into flaming the forums with negative energy, but in reality this is just a bad bad idea. "The cost of MP" is what im mainly complaining about. The nerf to THM is very much justified, but the way they implemented the adjustments, well they need to be revaluted and maybe a new line of adjustments for con/thm needs to be looked into. Yoshi-P. I respect your work, and ideas, but this was over the top for me. Please do something about this asap.

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Paragraphs... yes please? >.<

not that bad

I'm so glad, finally THM is NOT a healer anymore

only Sacrifice/Cure for myself and no need any responsible for anyone's life

leave the healing duty to CON :D I'm a DD

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Originally Posted by Evangela

only Sacrifice/Cure for myself and no need any responsible for anyone's life

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This is my new attitude to being a THM....probably wont do me any favours when it comes to partying

hey, you people complained, and you got what you wanted, now deal.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yep, seen it coming and been saying i was going to hate the changes since he started talking about them. well i enjoyed the game while it lasted.

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Yeah makes me wish I had logged on for one last fun time before they ruined the only DoW/M class I actually enjoyed playing

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Originally Posted by Evangela

not that bad

I'm so glad, finally THM is NOT a healer anymore

only Sacrifice/Cure for myself and no need any responsible for anyone's life

leave the healing duty to CON :D I'm a DD

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Good luck getting invited over real DD classes that have defense that is something more than a wet paper bag.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

hey, you people complained, and you got what you wanted, now deal.

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Funny, I don't remember complaining about how much I liked thm the way it was and wished they would ruin it.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

http://ffxiv.yg.com/class/thaumaturge?id=22
All thm spells until 50 are "disciple of Magic" meaning they can be crossed class between THM and CONJ, but not by Disciples of War.

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No
All THM skills, except some basic skills and the guildmark skills, are DoW & DoM. I can do slow, poison, bio, ... with my pugilist.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Funny, I don't remember complaining about how much I liked thm the way it was and wished they would ruin it.

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Didnt you just say in another thread you dont play this game why are you complaing....

lol @ all of the thm QQing...YOU AREN'T A FREAKING HEALER! GET OVER IT!!

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Good luck getting invited over real DD classes that have defense that is something more than a wet paper bag.

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That didn't stop BLMs from getting parties...until Colibri burning came out...Colibri ruined BLM DDs, not other DDs.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Didnt you just say in another thread you dont play this game why are you complaing....

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I played for six months and was hoping to play again. It is cool if the playerbase doesn't want anyone to return though. I'm sure SE will be happy to keep sinking money into a black hole with an evershrinking playerbase. So yeah, please keep telling people to go away - I am sure that will result in this game being better than ever.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

lol @ all of the thm QQing...YOU AREN'T A FREAKING HEALER! GET OVER IT!!



That didn't stop BLMs from getting parties...until Colibri burning came out...Colibri ruined BLM DDs, not other DDs.

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Even before colobri it was hard to get an invite as a blm - parties have always preferred non mp jobs to mp jobs. that is why whm got shafted over rdm - having to wait for a whm to gain mp slowed parties down.

And what's wrong with the changes?
THM was never supposed to be a healing class.
CON is.

People need to stop crying for every little thing.
/facepalm

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Originally Posted by Felis

No
All THM skills, except some basic skills and the guildmark skills, are DoW & DoM. I can do slow, poison, bio, ... with my pugilist.

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I didn't say you couldn't use them, I just forgot to add 40+, past rank 40 the only spells you can use from THM and CONJ on a dd or tank are like emulate and a few others. But 40+ on conj/thm they can cross class each others spells. Get what I mean?

So lets see if this is balanced, or helps make the two mage classes more distinctive.

Conjurer (as of 1.18): 67 Abilities/Spells Total

• 11 Curing/Raising Spells
• 8 Buffing Spells
• 2 Debuffing Abilities
• 12 Damage-Over-Time Spells
• 24 Direct Damage Abilities/Spells
• 2 Crowd Control Spells

Thaumaturge: 50 Abilities/Spells Total

• 4 Curing/Raising Spells
• 2 Buffing Spells
• 17 Debuffing Abilities/Spells
• 6 Damage-Over-Time Spells
• 11 Direct Damage Abilities/Spells
• 1 Crowd Control Spell

So if your keeping score, the better class to invite to your party for Curing, Buffing, Damage Over Time, Direct Damage, and Crowd Control is Conjurer. Thaumaturge only beats out Conjurer for debuffing.

Again, I picked Thaumaturge for debuffing, so I'm fine with this arrangement. But to say that this is balanced, or that this makes Conjurer a more distinctive class is not supported by the existing evidence.

The Development Team will definitely need to make MANY more adjustments in the future.

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

And what's wrong with the changes?
THM was never supposed to be a healing class.
CON is.

People need to stop crying for every little thing.
/facepalm

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I wouldn't go saying things like "THM was never meant to be a healing class" just because someone has "the real cure, and enhancing magic" doesn't mean THM was a fake healer.

THM needs to be nerfed. At the moment its the dominant class, and that's not right.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I wouldn't go saying things like "THM was never meant to be a healing class" just because someone has "the real cure, and enhancing magic" doesn't mean THM was a fake healer.

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It's not a fake healer, just not the main healer. lol

This change isn't so bad, we THM now have one less thing to do we can just focus on our damage and selfishly heal ourselves even then we don't have to...

Hey! Conjurer why aren't you healing! Damn white mages.. Sucks for the CON that wanted to be damage they will all be expect to heal. They can't be casting damage spells since that wastes MP that could be healing me.

I'm all for this change, lol.... considering CON is my only R50 class at the moment... on the other hand, I can see myself committing suicide for only being allowed to be the main healer.

yeah, sucks for CON because now we are stuck with healing...but our dmg spells sucked anyway...

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

And what's wrong with the changes?
THM was never supposed to be a healing class.
CON is.

People need to stop crying for every little thing.
/facepalm

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Looks like your a lancer, and well lancer got 1nerf to twisting vice, and that wasnt a big deal. My compliant is the "MP consumption" Which effects both the thaum/con classes. So in essence this is going to affect the game as a whole. No QQing here, just being realistic about the direction of these changes. I guess when you die from your healer running out of mp maybe then you will fathom how incredibly difficult this is going to be on the mages. Hence the reason i said "x2con for raid runs would be a must do" Where as thm--> dot/dd *laughs histercally* I rather have a "lancer" that produces raw damage over a dot/dd overtime squsihy/nerfed mage. Thats the facts, and its the reality. Its ok, just wont be playing thaum until they realize they over nerfed one class to the point where they are basically not useful, until the introduction of the "job system".

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Sucks for the CON that wanted to be damage they will all be expect to heal. They can't be casting damage spells since that wastes MP that could be healing me.

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Yeah, I loled hard at people saying "if you don't like healing you can nuke on CON" cause with 1 healing class in the game and everyone hating healing, I am sure that a party will let a CON nuke. lolnot.

And THM won't be invited at all since enfeebling always ends up being lol in the end (with bosses immune) and it won't be able to cure worth a damn. Woo.

These are awesome changes.. they are building a basis for a REAL battle system.. not that bullshit we had.. it was boring and lame.. Bring on the changes to point this more towards FFXI styled game.. Where their fanbase is going to come from. I'm LOVING THIS PATCH.. one step closer to success. Here's to more of this kind of stuff.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Yeah, I loled hard at people saying "if you don't like healing you can nuke on CON" cause with 1 healing class in the game and everyone hating healing, I am sure that a party will let a CON nuke. lolnot.

And THM won't be invited at all since enfeebling always ends up being lol in the end (with bosses immune) and it won't be able to cure worth a damn. Woo.

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DOT based jobs were very popular in FFXI.. Debuffs will be useful.. stop being a child

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Originally Posted by Forbin

DOT based jobs were very popular in FFXI.. Debuffs will be useful.. stop being a child

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Are you talking about RDM? Cause rdm only was invited to whore refresh and haste. No one invited anyone to a party to dia mobs to death

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Originally Posted by Sorel

So lets see if this is balanced, or helps make the two mage classes more distinctive.

Conjurer (as of 1.18): 67 Abilities/Spells Total

• 11 Curing/Raising Spells
• 8 Buffing Spells
• 2 Debuffing Abilities
• 12 Damage-Over-Time Spells
• 24 Direct Damage Abilities/Spells
• 2 Crowd Control Spells

Thaumaturge: 50 Abilities/Spells Total

• 4 Curing/Raising Spells
• 2 Buffing Spells
• 17 Debuffing Abilities/Spells
• 6 Damage-Over-Time Spells
• 11 Direct Damage Abilities/Spells
• 1 Crowd Control Spell

So if your keeping score, the better class to invite to your party for Curing, Buffing, Damage Over Time, Direct Damage, and Crowd Control is Conjurer. Thaumaturge only beats out Conjurer for debuffing.

Again, I picked Thaumaturge for debuffing, so I'm fine with this arrangement. But to say that this is balanced, or that this makes Conjurer a more distinctive class is not supported by the existing evidence.

The Development Team will definitely need to make MANY more adjustments in the future.

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Hi Sorel,

As Phenidate and others have pointed out, Thaumaturge even without Sacrifice was OP.

Dia II, Bio II, Poison II are game changers for the current big NM Fights. Thaumaturge is the first (and usually only) class that can solo the big NMs. Seeing a Thaumaturge solo Dodore and Great Buffalo NMs should say something about how ridiculously overpowered it was.

AOE Shadowsear does far more damage than any Tier II Conjurer spell on NMs. And now they're increasing Potency on Banish I / II, Scourge I / II, so that should add even more to the mix.

So while the quantity (#s) may seem like it favors Conjurer still, Thaumaturge is still quite strong even without AOE Sacrifice.

Add in all of the above *and* an AOE Sacrifice III with a massive Casting Cone, and there's no reason to play Conjurer in most situations. This change was definitely needed. They're not nerfing the potent (and awesome) Debuffs that Thaumaturge already has.

But, these are only *some* of the Class / Job System changes. We're getting more changes in 1.19, 1.20, and the final Job System rollout, so we only have part of the picture right now anyways. Let's see where this goes. ;)

I don't mind the changes to THM so much (I use my little Lalafell for magic-y leveling), but I would hope they would increase Conjurer's AoE range if we are to use them as the main healers now. The only reason I preferred healing on THM was the fact that CON's range is atrocious.

If they address that whenever this more mage-centric update they speak of comes, then I will be happy. If they never do, I will not.

I will withhold judgment on the MP costs and whatnot until I get back in game and get a chance to run around on my Lalafell, but right now, I am a bit concerned. Mostly I play as a duo though so it shouldn't be so bad.

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Are you talking about RDM? Cause rdm only was invited to whore refresh and haste. No one invited anyone to a party to dia mobs to death

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If you didn't think sleep para slow and the other stuff was useful your insane. Slow and para was slowing down dmg dealt to pc's and para had a good chance of stopping dmg all together ......

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Originally Posted by LuxLex

Are you talking about RDM? Cause rdm only was invited to whore refresh and haste. No one invited anyone to a party to dia mobs to death

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I have to agree with luxlex on this, rdm was a solo expert in everyway. Would solo things groups wiped on!! However when it came to group play, they did a few things, refresh, haste, and for HNM's/NM's they chainspell/stun locked. RDM wasnt nerfed, and was the most influencial job in ffxi. I know, this isnt ffxi, but alot of people that are amongst the fan-base are people that experianced ffxi and all its lore back when the game was great! I dont want a re-invention of ffxi, i just want a game that has reasonable balance. If you think thm is going to be getting invites, or be anywhere as important as con, you are blind, or just very misinformed about what the nerfs will do to a class such as thm. I did say its justified for thm to lose some of its lore, but all of it!? I mean thm went from best class, to worst class all in one patch lol.. I am not here to flame the forums, just giving my views on these changes, and not pleased at all. However if the majority of the population is happy with these changes then i respect there opinons, and wish them well in there adventures. The people that disagree with these changes, well i further more respect there opinon, because i am *raged* not the norm for me whatosever. I hope this patch brings in more people than it loses.

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

I have to agree with luxlex on this, rdm was a solo expert in everyway. Would solo things groups wiped on!! However when it came to group play, they did a few things, refresh, haste, and for HNM's/NM's they chainspell/stun locked. RDM wasnt nerfed, and was the most influencial job in ffxi. I know, this isnt ffxi, but alot of people that are amongst the fan-base are people that experianced ffxi and all its lore back when the game was great! I dont want a re-invention of ffxi, i just want a game that has reasonable balance. If you think thm is going to be getting invites, or be anywhere as important as con, you are blind, or just very misinformed about what the nerfs will do to a class such as thm. I did say its justified for thm to lose some of its lore, but all of it!? I mean thm went from best class, to worst class all in one patch lol.. I am not here to flame the forums, just giving my views on these changes, and not pleased at all. However if the majority of the population is happy with these changes then i respect there opinons, and wish them well in there adventures. The people that disagree with these changes, well i further more respect there opinon, because i am *raged* not the norm for me whatosever. I hope this patch brings in more people than it loses.

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Cant agree with that at all RDM was not solo expert just had a lot stuff it could use not everyone could do that solo HNM's stuff. Also SAM could solo HNM's too....

Also THM's Magic dmg is really good why cant they be DD's............

Bio, Gravity, Slow, Paralyze, etc, etc, et al

i've never seen so much QQ about everything geez.. FFXIV must be populated with a bunch of children :(

no dots dmg nerf on NM + new aggro system = many dead thms ... lol

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Originally Posted by Firon

Cant agree with that at all RDM was not solo expert just had a lot stuff it could use not everyone could do that solo HNM's stuff. Also SAM could solo HNM's too....

Also THM's Magic dmg is really good why cant they be DD's............

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RDM was a solo expert, well let me rephrase that. "A skillful RDM" Was a solo expert. Umm, sam solo HNM? Do you have any videos to justify that? I played sam for years was fav job. I never saw, or personally killed a HNM with sam. Not even sam/dance, or sam/nin. In that respect. Not calling you out. Just saying i had a very extensive history with rdm, and sam both jobs i admired from the start. Played from beta--> till 2009 and became very good at soloing NM's with rdm, but sam always was one ws away from winning lol. Anyways, if you have a video, please post i would love to see to be educated on how a sam can do a HNM.

Thaumaturge was not nerfed at all in my eyes. It was given a more focused role now.

DOTs: These were and are still powerful for DDing targets.

Scourge and Banish damage increase: Stack the buffs from both classes and they become seriously potent now.

Shadowsear: Was pretty potent before. Now with is being boosted by stats...yeah.

Emulate nerf: Good riddance to bad rubbish. Was tired of receiving heat for an ability I never used anyway.

Initiation and Siphon spells: Siphon Acc Att Def Eva + Initiation = Tank win. You are not just a monster disable boat. You are also a tank enabler. Slow, Para, Blind and Sleep will all be helps to tank hate retention as well.

Healing: Sac I II and III will all still be useful...they were OP to start. With hate values being what they are going to be I am very glad I can no longer AoE heal...I would be tanking most of the time then. I can now assist heal when needed and still focus on DoTing which is fine by me.

My only real gripe is with the MP costs. I feel if they are going to make something solo target it should stay as is since the effectiveness of the spell is already being taken down a notch by not being able to AoE.

I think they overdid the MP increases on some of the spells for both classes, but we'll see how it pans out.

This is easily my favorite part of the patch, long overdue IMO.