with this mindset the future looks dim

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Originally Posted by Odett

Because I'm tired of wiping for 2 hours because of people like you

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self entitlement is unbecoming and makes u look and sound asinine, if u are wiping for 2 hrs leave grp and find another, better yet dnt pug/df and role with a fc/ls or static believe me itll save u trouble, now if u wanna not take my suggestions, ur gunna run into ppl tht are not as well informed or experienced as u, may i ask did u i dont know explain fight? giv a lil encouragement and mayb not belittle or harrase thm for being a lesser player thn u? im guessin no so i again will say, self entitlement is unbecoming and makes u look and sound asinine

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I couldn't care any less about wipes.

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The other 7 people in your party do care.

Stop being selfish.

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Originally Posted by Luxx

Some people like first time experience with no handicaps.
Dive in and explore themselves.
Yea sadly we can't do it here, you get sent to the stake.
It sucks, but I like to learn on my own but nowadays I'm personally
sick of hearing naggin'...esp now I'm doing coil, you see folks true colours...

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Well if that's really the case and you want to learn on the fly, that's fine. You don't have to watch videos to complete content. But then learn on the fly, don't ask for a walk through. To me that says you want to know the fight beforehand but were too lazy to watch the video.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The other 7 people in your party do care.

Stop being selfish.

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i can agree with other ppl caring about wipes but he has a really gd point ppl go too batshit crazy about wipes, accidents happen the occasional oops will occur with the best of us. so he is not technically being selfish, u see selfishness and consideration is like a double edged sword it cuts both ways

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The other 7 people in your party do care.

Stop being selfish.

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Goes both ways yo. Tell the other 7 people to stop being selfish. And stop being so serious. It's a video game. Let me repeat it again, A VIDEO GAME. Just gets better and better. lol

No matter which side of the argument you're on, the cussing at someone was unnecessary. ^^;

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Originally Posted by xenosuke1

i can agree with other ppl caring about wipes but he has a really gd point ppl go too batshit crazy about wipes, accidents happen the occasional oops will occur with the best of us. so he is not technically being selfish, u see selfishness and consideration is like a double edged sword it cuts both ways

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There's a difference between an accidental wipe here and there and one person causing a party to wipe dozens of times because they didn't want to do the research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xenosuke1

self entitlement is unbecoming and makes u look and sound asinine, if u are wiping for 2 hrs leave grp and find another, better yet dnt pug/df and role with a fc/ls or static believe me itll save u trouble, now if u wanna not take my suggestions, ur gunna run into ppl tht are not as well informed or experienced as u, may i ask did u i dont know explain fight? giv a lil encouragement and mayb not belittle or harrase thm for being a lesser player thn u? im guessin no so i again will say, self entitlement is unbecoming and makes u look and sound asinine

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When did I state that I belittle people? What I meant by two hours is going into different groups and encountering the same situations. I will explain fights, but for some content, a player explanation is often not enough (especially when on top of not knowing a fight, someone cannot play their class well, so now you're stuck teaching two things, and that's only assuming one party member has this problem, when it's usually more than 2) and a video will serve much better. Sometimes a group cannot win, and that's normal, but after you have explained a fight to 5 groups in a row and accrued 2 hours worth of wipes, it can become very frustrating. My next question is not meant to come off as a personal attack, and neither is it my intent for it to be, but how is asking inexperienced players to take 5-10 minutes of their time to learn something self-entitlement? If anything, self-entitlement is coming into a fight blind and expecting others to explain it to you.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Goes both ways yo. Tell the other 7 people to stop being selfish. And stop being so serious. It's a video game. Let me repeat it again, A VIDEO GAME. Just gets better and better. lol

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2/10 - Too obvious

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I couldn't care any less about wipes. It's a freaking game.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Goes both ways yo. Tell the other 7 people to stop being selfish. And stop being so serious. It's a video game. Let me repeat it again, A VIDEO GAME. Just gets better and better. lol

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This is completely ridiculous logic.

It may be a game, but my time is not. The time of those 7 other people in your party is not a game. That's real. That's something I can put a value on. That society can put a value on. What a job clearly puts value on. What a family puts value on when you're playing a game instead of spending time with them because people keep wiping you repeatedly. Your attitude is the kind that comes into a party and wastes the valuable time of players because you can't spend a few minutes to watch a video. It shows a complete lack of consideration on your part for the other people that have to party with you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xenosuke1

i can agree with other ppl caring about wipes but he has a really gd point ppl go too batshit crazy about wipes, accidents happen the occasional oops will occur with the best of us. so he is not technically being selfish, u see selfishness and consideration is like a double edged sword it cuts both ways

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Accidents aren't accidents when its cause by being ill prepared.

again...
http://ctrla.lt/gfx/wtfv_001.png

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Originally Posted by Miitan

2/10 - Too obvious

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Yup, obviously I hit a nerve. lol

Man, things got real shit between when I stopped playing XI and WoW (vanilla) to now. No one told people to "go look at a Youtube" video for fights. They'd explain the fight to newbies. Now people act like helping people is some difficult chore. I guess when you can play the game without talking to people from 1-50, actually communicating to someone (outside of a <Hello!> autotranslate) is too difficult for some. I blame the DF.

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Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon

I was just in a T4 run that just started off with a bang... here is a screenshot of the chat, I have a brown line through my name green line through his, and circled what was said after I asked what I needed to know, I hid all the names,


I've also seen people get ripped if they didn't play a job the way someone else does (or like earlier was just told they "sucked at your job" but no advice whatsoever) then looked up the character and found they "MIGHT" have it unlocked but that's it, here's an idea instead of ripping on someone give advice, and not cut them down.

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You're DF'ing t4, you should not hinder the people who are actually looking for a win by going in without knowing anything about the fight. If you were a melee dps you could beat your face against the keyboard, but your'e a tank. You need to know the strat so your group doesn't have to wipe 5 times before you actually know what is going on. Yes the people who originally beat the fight and posted their strategies did not know the fight before going in, but you're way behind that curve. Why would you specifically go into a fight blind when there is a plethora of information available to you?

The OMG I WANT TO EXPERIENCE THE EXPERIENCE FIRST AND PLAY A GAME INSTEAD OF WATCHING A YOUTUBE VIDEO excuse is why you will always see DF groups have very small margins of success.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It may be a game, but my time is not. The time of those 7 other people in your party is not a game. That's real. That's something I can put a value on. That society can put a value on. What a job clearly puts value on. Your attitude is the kind that comes into a party and wastes the valuable time of players because you can't spend a few minutes to watch a video.

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Yup, your time is so precious you waste it on pixels. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magis

Man, things got real shit between when I stopped playing XI and WoW (vanilla) to now. No one told people to "go look at a Youtube" video for fights. They'd explain the fight to newbies. Now people act like helping people is some difficult chore. I guess when you can play the game without talking to people from 1-50, actually communicating to someone (outside of a <Hello!> autotranslate) is too difficult for some.

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People clearly forget that there was the FFXI wiki back then with printed strategies for how to do fights with different party setups. Yes, we didn't have youtube, but we did have walkthroughs that you were expected to read ahead of time. Youtube didn't suddenly change things. Prior research was still expected.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Yup, your time is so precious you waste it on pixels. lol

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My time is my time to waste as I see fit. Not yours. Not anyone. You are not the one who puts a value on my time. I am.

You're responses to these points paint a very good picture of your attitude. You don't care about anyone but yourself to the point you insult people blatantly when they value their time more than you. You don't care at all for them. Only for you and your yourself.

A few points to note here:

1. A lot of videos/guides are dated, haven't been updated with newer content or strategies in mind.
2. They are often recorded and/or written with 1 strategy, 1 team setup, 1 way of handling enemies. Not all fights, T4 and T5 in particular, have 1 way and 1 way only of handling the fight and some may work better for different party compositions than others.
3. A lot of video/guides contradict each other. This often goes hand-in-hand with points 1 and 2.
4. There are different kinds of learners. Videos may not help, but reading would, and vice versa. For a lot of people, just trying it with a general idea of what's going to happen is best. Whether or not they skimmed beforehand, or someone gives an annotated version specific to their job, it shouldn't matter. Until you are actually in the thick of it, you don't know how you're going to do, regardless of previous info.

I totally see both sides of this. From my perspective, videos and guides are not incredibly helpful, but spoken/written words from a player in real time are much more effective. That's just me. Improving the quality and actually editing guides and videos, I may be more prone to one side, but it just isn't that way right now. I learn best from making mistakes as opposed to studying. College wasn't fun for me lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

People clearly forget that there was the FFXI wiki back then with printed strategies for how to do fights with different party setups. Yes, we didn't have youtube, but we did have walkthroughs that you were expected to read ahead of time. Youtube didn't suddenly change things. Prior research was still expected.

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Honestly I think that if the world were a more slower pace people would probably lean at being more tolerant, that and if we also had to depend on one another more outside of coil. Explaining things probably wouldn't feel so mundane. This game makes people feel that things need to be done with absolute perfection, anything else is fodder for the birds. But I really do consider the pacing playing a huge part here. Jerks are everywhere but during my short time in FFXI never did I feel so rushed.

I'm not quite sure how best to describe it, forgive me. But something is definitely off about Eorzea's environment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

snip

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Strategies may be different, and that is something you will need to discuss with your own group, but video guides will still inform you about the different phases of a boss fight and about the attacks they use. It's not even studying, it's 5-10 minutes of watching a video that can be done while you're waiting in the queue for the fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AiChyan

I just don't understand one thing, people talk about experiencing content and exploring, but they go in asking the party for an explanation on what to do, so what is the difference between looking it up beforehand and having someone write down to you what you would have looked up?

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This should've been end of topic. Seriously, why bother asking someone else to explain it then if you want to experience it? What's the difference with someone explaining it with visuals on YouTube and someone in your party explaining it?

Honestly, if it is 6 month old content its just polite to look it up for others. New content like leviathan is fine, make a learning party in PF and state that. Stay away from DF, it's a cancer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Honestly I think that if the world were a more slower pace people would probably lean at being more tolerant, that and if we also had to depend on one another more outside of coil. Explaining things probably wouldn't feel so mundane. This game makes people feel that things need to be done with absolute perfection, anything else is fodder for the birds. But I really do consider the pacing playing a huge part here. Jerks are everywhere but during my short time in FFXI never did I feel so rushed.

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I'd agree with this assessment. The pace of battle definitely leads to this type of environment. Especially when the battles have so many mechanics that cause instant wipes when you miss them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

People clearly forget that there was the FFXI wiki back then with printed strategies for how to do fights with different party setups. Yes, we didn't have youtube, but we did have walkthroughs that you were expected to read ahead of time. Youtube didn't suddenly change things. Prior research was still expected.



My time is my time to waste as I see fit. Not yours. Not anyone. You are not the one who puts a value on my time. I am.

You're responses to these points paint a very good picture of your attitude. You don't care about anyone but yourself to the point you insult people blatantly when they value their time more than you. You don't care at all for them. Only for you and your yourself.

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LOL, way to judge there. Too funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

Strategies may be different, and that is something you will need to discuss with your own group, but video guides will still inform you about the different phases of a boss fight and about the attacks they use.

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You still have the same issue as if you were going in blind, though, in that you enter, you know what's going to happen, but don't know how to handle it for your group. And then there's the miscommunication of "well this is how I've always done it" "this is what I read" etc. For something like Titan EX that's 1 true pattern, this is a little more viable, but for BC (even T1 has all kinds of strategies I've never heard of), the fight can completely change. I get your point, but I don't think it's that simple.

You know, I remember the days when MMOs were all about being social. Y'know, back when you'd get in a random group, people would start chatting casually with each other, and nobody flipped their **** because "U DIDN'T REED THE GIDE U SCRUB! GTFO!" I love explaining fights to players, because I realized very early on something that so many elitists have ignored: You create the community you play with.

I prefer to be in a community where people have no problems being social, and where they help each other out without considering it to be an inconvenience. If someone doesn't know a fight, I'll explain the basics to them in a minute or two (that's with using a PS3 keyboard, mind you), and then we all try it out. If we wipe, we'll either try again or do a quick breakdown of what went wrong, then make a new attempt. My hope is that by doing this, the new players aren't afraid to ask for help should they need it later, and that they'll also be willing to help others out after having been helped themselves. Is that a corny idea? Heck yes. But I'd rather try to help make a community like that than live in the one where everybody's hostile to anyone who's new.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

LOL, way to judge there. Too funny.

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It's your responses I'm basing that off of. If that's not the picture you want to paint then I suggest you look at the words you use to talk to people and the meanings they convey. You very clearly come across as only caring for yourself. If this is not correct then please start acting in a way that proves it otherwise. You act just like any other troll who turns to insults and disparagement the moment holes get poked through their story.

How many years are we going to go on with expecting everyone else to know everything in a random group?

Getting a few notes about a fight is also incomparable to watching a video of it in terms of spoilers.

I haven't had time to read all of the comments, but I wanted to put my two cents in XD

A few weeks ago, I would have completely agreed, and I still somewhat agree with what the OP is saying. He used DF, and anyone else that's using DF should not expect to be grouped with an entire party that meets their standards.

With that in mind, I've recently joined a raid group and started new coil, in addition to old coil as well. When it comes to end game content such as coil, my expectations have changed. Some of those fights can be extremely complicated, and take WAY too much time to explain to someone, especially if you're not communicating verbally. One mistake and your team could potentially wipe because of you.Turn 4 is a pretty good example, since there are six phases and no breaks in between to explain things.

I guess what I'm trying to say to the OP is that I know it really sucks to spoil content by watching a video, but sometimes you're going to have to do it if you want to avoid the scenario you described. I would say ask your FC before trying a new raid or dungeon, and get their opinion. If they say it's super easy, don't waste your time looking up the fight. But if your friends say you should look it up before you try it, it's probably for the better, so you don't end up wasting your time having to deal with rude people, and seven other people don't end up wasting their time arguing about it.

Best of luck to you in your future Coil endeavors XD

I keep seeing the phrase "wasting my time" and I'm curious just where are you going in the next couple minutes? Wedding? Meeting with the President? If you are in such a big fat hurry maybe you aught not be playing mmorpg's which waste more time than anything I know. Put down that red bull, buddy, and do your homework before you get on the game. And if not consider the only real use of an mmo is getting practice in being polite to other human beings. A quality you could use in real life?

*Btw peeps if you edit your posts you will not have to double post.

A little off the main subject of this thread but I don't quite understand the "rush". The don't waste my time mentality with a healthy dose this is a make or break moment. I understand not wanting to fail and being prepared for any dungeon run, and agree as a tank you should be prepared since you're lead. Myself, I only have 2 hours a night to play so I don't want to lose but at the same time I've paid for 30 days, I will play again tomorrow. Getting a rare drop just means I'm one step closer to having nothing to do in game till new content. So what is the rush? I understand not wanting to lose but once you are fully maxed geared will you leave the game voiding your hard work for virtual items or bum around till new content?

Quote:

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You know, I remember the days when MMOs were all about being social. Y'know, back when you'd get in a random group, people would start chatting casually with each other, and nobody flipped their **** because "U DIDN'T REED THE GIDE U SCRUB! GTFO!" I love explaining fights to players, because I realized very early on something that so many elitists have ignored: You create the community you play with.

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You did not do end game fights with random people. You also didn't have random people teaching you those fights.

All that was handled in your guild/linkshell or whatever the game of choice was.

Quote:

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So what is the rush? I understand not wanting to lose but once you are fully maxed geared will you leave the game voiding your hard work for virtual items or bum around till new content?

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Let's say it like this. Someone ends up 3 or 4 times a day in an instance where he would have to teach someone. That is 15-20min in one day. Now multiply that with 365. That is a lot of time that could have been saved if those people instead did that themself.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

snip

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Right, but if you know the boss' attacks, then you can discuss a strategy. Try discussing a strategy with a player who doesn't know anything about a boss and it will not work because you cannot expect someone to understand when they don't know the fight itself.

We can use T5 as an example. You can discuss how you're gonna do phase 2, but with someone who's going in blind, they would have to juggle the information of how conflags and fireballs work, as well as how to deal with them. Same with divebombs and Manawall with BLMs. Same goes with T4 and feeding mechanics. You can't expect someone to know what you're talking about when they don't know about the monsters that will appear, what feeding is, or even where and when they'll spawn (you can alleviate this with waypoints, but new players won't know what's coming).

You can spend an hour wiping and explaining, or you can spend 5-10 minutes watching a guide, and maybe it will require only 2-3 wipes to win. Is a guide necessary? No. Does it make things smoother for everyone? You bet.

Meh, you'll go in, you'll wipe one, two,three times. You'll get the echo buff and if people stick around long enough to carry dead weight, you'll beat the encounter. It makes me laugh of hearing all these horror stories of DF/PF'ing content that is six months old, especially with the echo, it's pretty much an iwin button. My question is, when you guys are done PF/DF'ing this content, will you wait another six months until they nerf the new content so you can PF/DF it and complain about the same people getting mad that you didn't watch a video before you went into t6 and keep wiping your party because you keep getting eaten?

Or, will you now look for a static group to try and down the recent content when there is no buff and still go in with no prior knowledge of the fight and have this attitude? It's one thing to get carried in old content with a crazy buff that makes each instance pretty much roll face, but it's an entirely different story to go into what's considered "hard" content where you cannot carry dead weight and a mistake or two wipes your group over and over again.

Also, random question, but how am I able to avoid the character limit in my posts? I see tons of posts on here that are over the limit =/

Edit the post to go over the limit.

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Originally Posted by JTribal

Also, random question, but how am I able to avoid the character limit in my posts? I see tons of posts on here that are over the limit =/

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Edit it after.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JTribal

Also, random question, but how am I able to avoid the character limit in my posts? I see tons of posts on here that are over the limit =/

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Write out what you want, hit Submit. When the prompt comes up, take out a chunk of your text with Ctrl+X, post. As soon as you see it posted successfully, hit Edit, Ctrl+V, resubmit.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It's your responses I'm basing that off of. If that's not the picture you want to paint then I suggest you look at the words you use to talk to people and the meanings they convey. You very clearly come across as only caring for yourself. If this is not correct then please start acting in a way that proves it otherwise. You act just like any other troll who turns to insults and disparagement the moment holes get poked through their story.

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Assume away. I don't know you and couldn't care any less what you think of me. I will never stop laughing at peeps taking games so seriously and raging. It's funny and will always be funny.

I ran turn 4 through the DF for the past 2-3 weeks. Most groups were quick in and out wins.

The only groups that continuously struggled were those with first timers who didn't bother to do any research at all about the fight. Always asking at the beginning, "Anything I should know?". An ESSAY was then produced explaining every single phase and what to do / how to position. They still messed it up, because that's a lot of information to digest at once. Especially noticeable with tanks who came in blind and let the adds rip the healers' faces off. Repeatedly.

I've put in my time learning turn 4 before the echo. It was tough, but doable and there were many wipes before a win. I just don't feel like repeating that again for randoms, when I will never see the fruits of any invested hard work. Nothing against you people that like to go in completely blind and "learn as you wipe" kinda deal. Go for it, but don't be surprised if someone like me up and leaves because they don't want to participate in a wipe-fest.

I still don't get the refusal to watch a quick video, but in the same breath say it's perfectly OK to ask others to barf up a strat all over their keyboard. These fights can get rather complicated and just expecting someone to spoon-feed you info when you could have gone out and grabbed it yourself is odd to me. To each their own I suppose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

snip

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for youe first question it was assumption based on your attitude, and like i stated run with a fc, ls, or static. no matter what you do and no matter where you do it, pugs will always have these problems it sucks i know, and for self entitlement, jus like consideration and selfishness it cuts both ways, im sry you had a bad time, but with how are handling you situation, you are being self entitled you feel that your time is more important than other, and thats how everyone feels, now like you stated those grps were obviously learning grps if you expect em to be win if they dnt how the fight goes, well thats kinda like flippin a coin your either gunna get heads or tails and you jus got the short end of the stick