German Com rep response to "reservation system for dungeons".

Speculation upon Speculation, I say wait for the Patch then discuss Problems and Concerns eh? I thinks so =)

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Originally Posted by viion

Market wards are instanced like 15 times =O idk how many categories there are, Anywho, it is possible if games already do it!

I think when Yoshi said he didnt want a queue he probably ment like how when XIV servers get full and you get put into that login queue, that type of queue. But waiting around until there is a free spot is most likely gunna be the situation.

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And market wards are pretty small caliber compared to a hip instance dungeon in needed calculations. Which actually works against it. Because everything is run on the same spec. Bottlenecking one means bottlenecking everything.

(Technically MW aren't instances, they're just warp dungeons. 2 people zoning in will see each other)

That means 2 dungeons will require X power, 4 dungeon will require the exact same X power, so will 200 dungeons.

The scalable factor on a server load is disastrous. Thankfully, people don't run instances every waking moment. They won't even notice a limit on a dungeon after the first week.

It's only an issue for those that think meteors will hit their houses. Wait on line for a day, and tomorrow, no one cares.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Speculation upon Speculation, I say wait for the Patch then discuss Problems and Concerns eh? I thinks so =)

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Honestly! Some of these arguments are born out of nothing. No where does it say in either rep responses that you'd be in the instance with other groups. Also, do you really expect the instances to be infinite with this engine? It would be amazing if it could be done, but it can't so move on. A week after the patch it won't be an issue anyway. Are you in that much of a rush to fail an instanced dungeon? :)

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

And market wards are pretty small caliber compared to a hip instance dungeon in needed calculations. Which actually works against it. Because everything is run on the same spec. Bottlenecking one means bottlenecking everything.

That means 2 dungeons will require X power, 4 dungeon will require the exact same X power, so will 200 dungeons.

The scalable factor on a server load is disastrous. Thankfully, people don't run instances every waking moment. They won't even notice a limit on a dungeon after the first week.

It's only an issue for those that think meteors will hit their houses. Wait on line for a day, and tomorrow, no one cares.

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It is still very said you have to wait a week after to release to enjoy new stuff. But ah well its hardly anything compared to the 10ish months I've waited for this game to become anything and I am still waiting, so its no issue to me.

But all the explaining, logic and technical jargon you provide, will not (and should not) stop people from expecting more compared to today's standards.

I'm not even worried, this game does not have the population to even hit a said cap, people be too busy figuring out the quests, doing the quests, or going to the other dungeon. Then people will quit again and there be less competition.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Honestly! Some of these arguments are born out of nothing. No where does it say in either rep responses that you'd be in the instance with other groups. Also, do you really expect the instances to be infinite with this engine? It would be amazing if it could be done, but it can't so move on. A week after the patch it won't be an issue anyway. Are you that much in a rush to fail an instanced dungeon? :)

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Don't we have enough failing as it is? :P thank god they are squashing that.. because that REALLY got annoying! :P

Levequests= a Side thing to do
Quest Hubs= Possible the new way of Leveling up?
Dungeons= as it stands the Primary source of getting new gear Weapons, and a Bunch of Mini-games within it? Sounds good to me. :D

Grand Companies= New Storyline, If Im a betting man I would go with this that They will be the Prime source of the story.

It's funny how this conversation went completely out of hand.

I started the topic cause there was a com rep response that "implied" something like Dynamis, but nothing confirmed, it just sounded confusing and the wording wasn't chosen that well.

Now Bayohne comes in and at least tells us how things are meant to be and that he is trying to get us info about how many groups can enter the dungeon at once. And NOW people get all raged up about Dynamis shit? I mean, when I started the thread, it was all viable to get concerned and stuff, but NOW it just makes no sense anymore...

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

It's funny how this conversation went completely out of hand.

I started the topic cause there was a com rep response that "implied" something like Dynamis, but nothing confirmed, it just sounded confusing and the wording wasn't chosen that well.

Now Bayohne comes in and at least tells us how things are meant to be and that he is trying to get us info about how many groups can enter the dungeon at once. And NOW people get all raged up about Dynamis shit? I mean, when I started the thread, it was all viable to get concerned and stuff, but NOW it just makes no sense anymore...

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I agree.. and most threads get out of hand.. sad but true because people take "ONE" word and then try to make a lot of facts up when its not even true. Opinions are good, but when your sounding like your passing them off as fact that's where the line is drawn.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

It's funny how this conversation went completely out of hand.

I started the topic cause there was a com rep response that "implied" something like Dynamis, but nothing confirmed, it just sounded confusing and the wording wasn't chosen that well.

Now Bayohne comes in and at least tells us how things are meant to be and that he is trying to get us info about how many groups can enter the dungeon at once. And NOW people get all raged up about Dynamis shit? I mean, when I started the thread, it was all viable to get concerned and stuff, but NOW it just makes no sense anymore...

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They actually did not imply that. You did. So blame yourself.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

They actually did not imply that. You did. So blame yourself.

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"No queue system, it's gonna be "First come, first serve"

What does that imply for you Mr. Know it all? This sure as hell gives me concerns about it not being open to more than one group at a time. Cause if it's more than 1 group, why even mention "First come, first serve"?

And obviously, Bayohne himself thought the concern is viable enough to inquire about clarification...so bang some other Brucey.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

"No queue system, it's gonna be "First come, first serve"

What does that imply for you Mr. Know it all? This sure as hell gives me concerns about it not being open to more than one group at a time. Cause if it's more than 1 group, why even mention "First come, first serve"?

And obviously, Bayohne himself thought the concern is viable enough to inquire about clarification...so bang some other Brucey.

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Its a Vague statement.. Just wait till Patch day and test it out

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

"No queue system, it's gonna be "First come, first serve"

What does that imply for you Mr. Know it all? This sure as hell gives me concerns about it not being open to more than one group at a time. Cause if it's more than 1 group, why even mention "First come, first serve"?

And obviously, Bayohne himself thought the concern is viable enough to inquire about clarification...so bang some other Brucey.

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Several interviews and mentions to the instanced dungeons have talks regarding issues that they are planning on taking for the sever load. Remember the issue where players disliked the fact that you needed 8 players to enter the R45+ dungeon? Remember the reasoning Yoshida gave for this issue? Go read that. Don't walk out of here criticizing players who are also jumping the gun when you just made an issue out of something that was already described as not the case straight from the horse's mouth a month ago. On top of taking an extremely vague comment and suggesting it implies something. You had a thought that was separate from what the rep was saying and applied it to the comment.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Several interviews and mentions to the instanced dungeons have talks regarding issues that they are planning on taking for the sever load. Remember the issue where players disliked the fact that you needed 8 players to enter the R45+ dungeon? Remember the reasoning Yoshida gave for this issue? Go read that. Don't walk out of here criticizing players who are also jumping the gun when you just made an issue out of something that was already described as not the case straight from the horse's mouth a month ago. On top of taking an extremely vague comment and suggesting it implies something. You had a thought that was separate from what the rep was saying and applied it to the comment.

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The reasoning for this "it must be 8man to enter the R50 dungeon" was not 1 month ago, actually it was just a few days before the german com response came up. I completely understood the reasoning and I know the reasoning implied that there will be several groups able to enter the dungeon, but doesn't change the fact that contradicting responses are contradicting. Also you seem to miss the fact that by now I'm pretty convinced that several groups will be able to enter the dungeon at once and I said that a few pages ago, which brings me back to my initial post here. Back when I started the topic this whole "is it gonna be like dynamis" thing was viable, as it was a valid concern, but now after Bayohnes post and considering what has been said in the past its completely nonsense but for some reason NOW people choose to go all crazy about it, instead of when it was still "reasonable"...

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

The reasoning for this "it must be 8man to enter the R50 dungeon" was not 1 month ago, actually it was just a few days before the german com response came up. I completely understood the reasoning and I know the reasoning implied that there will be several groups able to enter the dungeon, but doesn't change the fact that contradicting responses are contradicting. Also you seem to miss the fact that by now I'm pretty convinced that several groups will be able to enter the dungeon at once and I said that a few pages ago, which brings me back to my initial post here. Back when I started the topic this whole "is it gonna be like dynamis" thing was viable, as it was a valid concern, but now after Bayohnes post and considering what has been said in the past its completely nonsense but for some reason NOW people choose to go all crazy about it, instead of when it was still "reasonable"...

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but the dynamis waiting list is still completely 'reasonable', we dont know the dungeon capacity in general at all, but its pretty reasonable to assume its going to be marginally less than what it "should" be able to hold.
again, the objective for a game is to have many people play, if many people are playing but are getting server disconnects, waiting in line just to hop in the dungeon, and lock outs then things are not being handled very efficiently.
what i would like to hear instead of "dont worry, everyone will get their chance" from the devs (bassically what i feel were getting from them) is an actual explanation of some basic hardware and software issues they have to help the community understand why things are taking as long as they are and why they cant make 100 instanced copies of one zone.
the zone might be too big for 100 copies of it?

if im not mistaken one of the posts by Yoshi himself specifically states that the dungeon is not new, its actually a copy of an existing zone that will be instanced with particular mobs to give it its own zone theme.
am i correct?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

but the dynamis waiting list is still completely 'reasonable', we dont know the dungeon capacity in general at all, but its pretty reasonable to assume its going to be marginally less than what it "should" be able to hold.
again, the objective for a game is to have many people play, if many people are playing but are getting server disconnects, waiting in line just to hop in the dungeon, and lock outs then things are not being handled very efficiently.
what i would like to hear instead of "dont worry, everyone will get their chance" from the devs (bassically what i feel were getting from them) is an actual explanation of some basic hardware and software issues they have to help the community understand why things are taking as long as they are and why they cant make 100 instanced copies of one zone.
the zone might be too big for 100 copies of it?

if im not mistaken one of the posts by Yoshi himself specifically states that the dungeon is not new, its actually a copy of an existing zone that will be instanced with particular mobs to give it its own zone theme.
am i correct?

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Yoshi never said the dungeon is an actual copy of an existing zone just instanced. It's an underground area...have you ever seen any cave like underground area in the game yet? And I mean an area as huge as this dungeon, not just any regular cave that exists in dozens...

Actually nothing has been said about the dungeon except for its location and its rank requirement. This video is the first information we really have about it.

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Actually nothing has been said about the dungeon except for its location and its rank requirement. This video is the first information we really have about it.

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hmmm i have no idea where i got that then but it was in my head the whole entire time that these were zones already in existance, but taken to be instanced versions aswell with diff mobs with a dungeon label slapped on... not that i care i cant wait to play it anyway just saying.
where is the location then? maybe thats what i was thinking about. i just remember people saying you can actually walk to this place but that there isnt any purpose for it atm.

Using this type of system for dungeons is simply inexcusable, this method is extremely outdated and can't believe they would go with this type of system. Rep is currently getting more information on how many groups can go in at once, but this is simply ridiculous. How do they expect to use this type of system if more people start coming into the game? Sorry to sound negative, but there is nothing positive about using this feature, it was awful for Dynamis, and it will be awful now.

Although, this could be taken out of context, where the limit of groups would be to the point that we don't care. I understand there are limitations that all MMO's follow, but if it is a system like Dynamis, I can't say the population will be happy about this.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Using this type of system for dungeons is simply inexcusable, this method is extremely outdated and can't believe they would go with this type of system. Rep is currently getting more information on how many groups can go in at once, but this is simply ridiculous. How do they expect to use this type of system if more people start coming into the game? Sorry to sound negative, but there is nothing positive about using this feature, it was awful for Dynamis, and it will be awful now.

Although, this could be taken out of context, where the limit of groups would be to the point that we don't care. I understand there are limitations that all MMO's follow, but if it is a system like Dynamis, I can't say the population will be happy about this.

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That's more or less a pointless argument since the game is currently free, and extremely poor in terms of population density.

If it actually becomes a popular and people actually start playing again, and pay monthly subscriptions, situations will change then on a as needed basis.

And it's more or less the same, WoW queue up to log in when it was first rushed in, it stopped happening and never happened again. The rush is gone.

The only people worry about this are people worry about piano's dropping on their heads. It'll all be over in a flash.

Ha. If you hate waiting for things, then you clearly picked the wrong game when you bought FFXIV :p

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Hey gang,

What our German counterpart, Sasunaich, said is correct. The development team discussed it and opted not to include a queue system for the instanced raids at this time. The system will allow groups to enter on a first come, first serve-type system. However, nothing was mentioned about how many parties can take part in the instance at the same time.

I've sent a request for further clarification on how many parties can inhabit the dungeon at the same time and will report back when I have further details to share. Sorry for the delay!

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Thanks Bayohne , I'm really impressed with how much you and the others have done on behalf of the players. You guys rock ^^

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

5 parties max per instance with a total of 10 instances maybe?
is it possible for a party right behind you to not only catch up but pass you on your own dungeon crawl?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

what are you talking about? it isnt going to be 1 party = 1 instance, thats what all of these arguments are about, having to share 1 instance due to the fact that there cannot be several at once which will cause lines.

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Neko's correct. The fact that it's "instanced" means that each party has its own dungeon to run. So it is going to be 1 party = 1 instance. There won't be any "shared" instances. Your party will have its very own dungeon, all the mobs will spawn solely for your own party, and there will be no other parties in your dungeon.

The question is how many "instanced" dungeons can the game run at the same time? If it's a small number, you may have to wait in line before you can get into the dungeon. That's the whole issue. If everyone could spawn into one dungeon, no one would have to wait in line for anything. (Although that would certainly create its own issues.)

I really don't think that this will be that big a problem, at least for the time being.
How many level 45+ people are on each server? Lets assume that there are 200 per server, just for the sake of argument. Also lets assume the instance limit is tied to each server and not the entire system... To enter the 45+ dungeon you need 8 party members, so that is 200/8...25. Now all 25 parties, comprising all 200 players eligible would have to want to do the dungeon at the same time for there to be 25 instances reached. However, with the 1 hour time limit, and cool down for the dungeon (even if it was one day). It seems likely that everyone would eventually get to go without much trouble.
Of course on launch day for the patch the servers will probably be jammed, but after that it will quickly end up where it is less of a problem, and hopefully in the future as they add more raids and other instanced content they scale their systems with them. I just thing at this stage in the games lifecycle, and the nature of the instance we shouldn't worry that much.

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Originally Posted by Ark_mage2

I really don't think that this will be that big a problem, at least for the time being.
How many level 45+ people are on each server? Lets assume that there are 200 per server, just for the sake of argument. Also lets assume the instance limit is tied to each server and not the entire system... To enter the 45+ dungeon you need 8 party members, so that is 200/8...25. Now all 25 parties, comprising all 200 players eligible would have to want to do the dungeon at the same time for there to be 25 instances reached. However, with the 1 hour time limit, and cool down for the dungeon (even if it was one day). It seems likely that everyone would eventually get to go without much trouble.
Of course on launch day for the patch the servers will probably be jammed, but after that it will quickly end up where it is less of a problem, and hopefully in the future as they add more raids and other instanced content they scale their systems with them. I just thing at this stage in the games lifecycle, and the nature of the instance we shouldn't worry that much.

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um...tons? A majority of the people who still play this game just can't seem to pull themselves away from it for whatever reason, and almost all of them have at least one R50 if not multiple. I know of at least 500 people on my server with one R50.

whatever, i think i get it. the wording some times is so retarded.
so their saying they are making individual instances, but they arent saying how many can be active at once which is what could cause the wait lines.
sorry, but i blame SE for not wording things as well as i could have.

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Originally Posted by Ark_mage2

Lets assume that there are 200 per server, just for the sake of argument. Also lets assume the instance limit is tied to each server and not the entire system... To enter the 45+ dungeon you need 8 party members, so that is 200/8...25. Now all 25 parties, comprising all 200 players eligible would have to want to do the dungeon at the same time for there to be 25 instances reached. However, with the 1 hour time limit, and cool down for the dungeon (even if it was one day). It seems likely that everyone would eventually get to go without much trouble.
Of course on launch day for the patch the servers will probably be jammed, but after that it will quickly end up where it is less of a problem, and hopefully in the future as they add more raids and other instanced content they scale their systems with them. I just thing at this stage in the games lifecycle, and the nature of the instance we shouldn't worry that much.

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Gotta agree with Richard here. I've got 3 classes to 50, and I've done some leveling on every class in the game. And FFXIV Pro says there are 227 players on my server who have earned more SP than me. So it seems pretty likely that the estimate of 200 people per server with a r50 is really, really low.

Just as a random experiment, I scrolled back on FFXIV Pro's player rankings on my server to the 1,000th ranked player. That player had two classes to r50.

So it seems more likely that there are over 1,000 players who have a class to r50, and will be able to participate in the dungeons on release.

So I think it's a bigger issue than that. We'll have to wait on more info to see how big an issue it is, of course.

If you search for a character that has 1 rank 50 class at the moment on ffxivpro you'll notice that their rank on the server is probably higher than 2,000. That of course means that there are more than 2,000 people with a greater amount of skill points acquired. Some of that is crafting, but a large portion isn't. Then consider that 2,000 doesn't track everyone. As an example, if 1,000 of those have 1 rank 50 combat class (highly likely and conservative estimate), and they all want to get in to the dungeon some day during a single 24 hour period then that's more than 40 players trying to get in per hour (spread evenly across the day). That number drops in off hours and increases at prime time for EST and JP time. at least twice as many people play during prime time, so I think it's highly reasonable to say that 80 people could be trying to get into an endgame dungeon per hour during prime time.

Now consider that my estimate only involves people trying once and then either succeeding or giving up. People will continue to try repeatedly. Many of those people could try all day long. There are some unknowns there, but it would be very easy to push that figure up to 200-300 players trying to use the dungeon per hour during prime time. If there aren't enough instances to accommodate that then there are going to be a lot of unhappy players.

Finally - keep in mind that it's SE's goal to INCREASE the number of players, making this issue even more important for their future. Players will probably come back to FFXIV to try this content. If they find it inaccessible they'll say 'lol' and forget about FFXIV forever.

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Originally Posted by Nipa

If there is a limit to the number of groups that can do the same instance at the same time, this will be beyond awesome.

That would mean SE managed to fail even something as basic as instanced dungeons.

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"Because other games have no such limitations"?

Hahahaha.

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Originally Posted by Zozor

If you search for a character that has 1 rank 50 class at the moment on ffxivpro you'll notice that their rank on the server is probably higher than 2,000. That of course means that there are more than 2,000 people with a greater amount of skill points acquired. Some of that is crafting, but a large portion isn't. Then consider that 2,000 doesn't track everyone. As an example, if 1,000 of those have 1 rank 50 combat class (highly likely and conservative estimate), and they all want to get in to the dungeon some day during a single 24 hour period then that's more than 40 players trying to get in per hour (spread evenly across the day). That number drops in off hours and increases at prime time for EST and JP time. at least twice as many people play during prime time, so I think it's highly reasonable to say that 80 people could be trying to get into an endgame dungeon per hour during prime time.

Now consider that my estimate only involves people trying once and then either succeeding or giving up. People will continue to try repeatedly. Many of those people could try all day long. There are some unknowns there, but it would be very easy to push that figure up to 200-300 players trying to use the dungeon per hour during prime time. If there aren't enough instances to accommodate that then there are going to be a lot of unhappy players.

Finally - keep in mind that it's SE's goal to INCREASE the number of players, making this issue even more important for their future. Players will probably come back to FFXIV to try this content. If they find it inaccessible they'll say 'lol' and forget about FFXIV forever.

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yep.
i truly wonder where they got their servers. i dont care how graphically intense this game is, your servers should accommodate those graphics. if your nutrients are stronger than your light source then you get bad bud..... this is whats currently going on it seems.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

lol wow did you guys not read anything?
you are incorrect sir.

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Slow your horses there, Vinny. You're getting snarky, but that quote actually supports what I said. In fact, if more than one party could be in the same dungeon, then this entire discussion would not make sense because no one would be waiting in lines. Everyone would just enter the same dungeon.

"Instanced" content -- by definition -- means that every party spawns in its own dungeon. It means SE's servers are running a separate program of the dungeon for every party. In other words, your party and my party can be in the dungeon at the same time, but we're in completely separate dungeons (i.e., separate "instances").

Here's a definition of "instance dungeon" from Wikipedia:

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In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain amount of players, that enters the area.

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Don't trust Wikipedia? Here's a definition of "instance" I pulled from Google:

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Each instance of a program is, by definition, a separate process, as a process is merely an instance of a program, and thus each instance has a unique PID (process identification number).

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And here's one from PC Mag that says the same thing.

There is no sharing of dungeons. My party can be running the dungeon at the same time as your party, but we wouldn't be in the same dungeon. We'd be in identical dungeons with completely separate mobs. Think of it like, when the instance starts, you're transported to an entirely separate world, where your party is the only one that exists in that world. We're in identical dungeons, but on separate worlds. So every mob that spawns can only be killed by your party, because your party is the only party in the dungeon.

And like I said in the previous thread, if everyone was just transported into the same dungeon and we were all sharing the same mobs, then no one would be waiting in line. We'd already be in the dungeon. So this entire discussion wouldn't make sense.

So yes, I do read. But you have to read it with an understanding of what "instance" means.

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Slow your horses there, Vinny. You're getting snarky, but that quote actually supports what I said.

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lets just say i 'work' on video games as a side project, i know very much what instances are and how they work.
i took back what i said and changed my entire post because i realized the context of what they were saying was off.
since they use their own quirky technology and do things differently than i would it really wasnt surprising to me that theyd just create several of the same zone with multiple routs and just call it an instance... i really was expecting that.

oh and i also apologized

I wanna watch "My Cousin Vinny" now... lol

A staggeringly large amount (if not an overwhelming majority) of people who still currently play have one or multiple rank 50's. This is common knowledge.

Not to sound wierd.... But i think you guys are mixing up what a que system did. From my experience on que systems. Is that if you have a full party, you can enter no problem. But if you are not in a full group. You would que up, till there is enough people. Then be placed in a spot. Most instance raids on WoW have multiple layes to alot a ton of groups through. I've never seen an instanced raid que. Only for something like battle grounds on WoW.

Oh and the dynamis hour lass got lowed to 500K. it may even be lower then that by now. I didn't like how SE did dynamis. People got really snobby about it.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Hey gang,

What our German counterpart, Sasunaich, said is correct. The development team discussed it and opted not to include a queue system for the instanced raids at this time. The system will allow groups to enter on a first come, first serve-type system. However, nothing was mentioned about how many parties can take part in the instance at the same time.

I've sent a request for further clarification on how many parties can inhabit the dungeon at the same time and will report back when I have further details to share. Sorry for the delay!

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Thank you, hope it is more than 20 parties at a time. (at very least). I don't think you will have trouble to make just 20 instances, since other game I played could make 100+ instances at the same time. It is all up to how you would like people to wait (waste) time outside.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

whatever, i think i get it. the wording some times is so retarded.
so their saying they are making individual instances, but they arent saying how many can be active at once which is what could cause the wait lines.
sorry, but i blame SE for not wording things as well as i could have.

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Yes. The problem is definitely SE's "wording." You're totally right to blame them. If you -- with your superior writing skills -- had done the post, you'd have made it clear they were talking about instanced content. Which they didn't do, right? I mean, just look at what they said:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

However, nothing was mentioned about how many parties can take part in the instance at the same time.

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Wait, isn't that exactly what you quoted? And doesn't it use the word "instance" right there in the sentence?

Hmm. Maybe SE's not to blame for your posts, after all.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

lets just say i 'work' on video games as a side project, i know very much what instances are and how they work.
i took back what i said and changed my entire post because i realized the context of what they were saying was off.
since they use their own quirky technology and do things differently than i would it really wasnt surprising to me that theyd just create several of the same zone with multiple routs and just call it an instance... i really was expecting that.

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Awesome. I love how you deny, deny, deny that they're using instances, and then say that you expected that they'd use instances. Yeah. You knew it all along.

And if you think instance dungeons are "quirky technology," then I'm still not convinced you know what "instance" means. For example, it doesn't mean that they "create[d] several of the same zone with multiple rout[e]s." It means that they created one zone, and they run it on multiple instances.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

Yes. The problem is definitely SE's "wording." You're totally right to blame them. If you -- with your superior writing skills -- had done the post, you'd have made it clear they were talking about instanced content. Which they didn't do, right? I mean, just look at what they said:Wait, isn't that exactly what you quoted? And doesn't it use the word "instance" right there in the sentence?

Hmm. Maybe SE's not to blame for your posts, after all.Awesome. I love how you deny, deny, deny that they're using instances, and then say that you expected that they'd use instances. Yeah. You knew it all along.

And if you think instance dungeons are "quirky technology," then I'm still not convinced you know what "instance" means. For example, it doesn't mean that they "create[d] several of the same zone with multiple rout[e]s." It means that they created one zone, and they run it on multiple instances.

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k first off i was being sarcastic because i felt stupid for not getting what they said in the first place. sarcasm can be hard to get online so im not mad that it wasnt caught on.
second, let me show you this-
"since they use their own quirky *technology and do things differently than i *would it really wasnt surprising to me that *theyd just create several of the same zone with multiple routs and just call it an instance"

* the quirky technology im talking about is their hardware and software which have been noted by several people to not be optimized for creating an MMO, if those people were wrong and everything their side is great then... woops? either way i know im right in this aspect so ague it all you want.
edit, oh wait what i mean here is, i know im right because things would have been alot easier if they just went with at least the cry engine... or something with instructions.

* there are many things lots of us would have done differently than they

* what i said was (which i MEANT prior to this thread), i was expecting them to create a set number of the same zone awaiting occupancy- which are not instances. this and my poor understanding of their wording led me to think there were going to be multiple parties in one "instance". i use quotes here because i was expecting them to label these ever existing zones falsely as instances.
at what point did i deny they are using instances and then say i expected them to all along?

the last part of my sentence was referring to me expecting them to falsely call what they are creating instances. that was my expectation prior to me realizing they actually are using legitimate instances---- so one of my original questions still stands, how many at once?
wow, you non the less misunderstood what i said just as i them.

I doubt the technical limit on instances will be a single digit number. WoW is able to handle many instances of the same instance (lol). Heck, they even have a cross-world dungeon system (which, while I don't like the idea, is impressive for how difficult it must have been to implement).

Quote:

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I doubt the technical limit on instances will be a single digit number. WoW is able to handle many instances of the same instance (lol). Heck, they even have a cross-world dungeon system (which, while I don't like the idea, is impressive for how difficult it must have been to implement).

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Don't underestimate SE.
They managed to have an auction-house replacement that constantly crashed
and currently reached its limits in U'dah although servers are almost empty.

ZOMG WOW can do like 20-30 instances at the same time why can't SE do it!

a.) we don't know the limit yet so why complain and speculate when we have no info yet

b.) the total poly count in 1 of these instances looks very VERY high, with multiple paths and several level's to clear your talking one massive instance, I bet we get 10 groups at a time and I doubt much wait times when it does go live.

Does anyone have more experience with WOW who could also compare poly's within an instance? I think from my rough knowledge of programming (yes I program for a living-SQL client server socket stuff) I'd say the conversion might be on the order of 1 to 10. Where 1 instance of these new dungeons is about 10 in a typical WOW instance.

edit: Nevermind, not worth it going into a discussion of poly count and server load, besides that is going off topic.

I just hope we could get a clear answer stating # of groups per instance, and amont of concurrent instances.

I want to clarify a few things; While I can't disclose the number of instances that are created at the same time, I can assure you it is not a system where only one instance is available at a time. So if a group is already tackling the The Dzemael Darkhold raid, other groups can still enter their own instanced version of it. There won't be multiple parties inside of an instance, either. Your parties' raid is exclusive to your group only. We look forward to your comments and discussion once you all have had a chance to try the raids out when patch 1.18 hits. :)