DIP, DUCK, DIVE, DODGE!

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Another problem is that the *** won the war for the soul of the battle engine. Even if the UI had the capabilty, SE would still go with AA, simply because the "Target Audience" demanded radical change with total disregard for consequences of that descision, and AA was the icing of that radical change.

Knee-jerk reactions: ruining everything since god knows when.

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Since you wanna call people *** ill call you an *** the current battle system sucks *** and I'm sorry that you like it.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

To the people who want a completely revamped combat system... didn't SWG try that and fail?

If SE was going to do that, it should have been the first thing to be started with the new producer because as others have said, it involves everything. FF14 was built around old school MMO combat so right now they should be focused on perfecting the existing system. I'm not saying that they can't change it, but it will be going back to square one and if there's no clear idea on what it'll be and they can't sell the new idea to the players, it'll be tough on them.

Another problem is you are changing the system... but to what? Let's say the copy Tera. Tera doesn't have the baggage. Also you are assuming that the new system will be better than the old system.

FF games are supposed to be about story. MMOs are supposed to be about "content". Those should be the primary foci of SE right now.

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As someone who played SWG before, during and after the abomination known as the NGE, I can wholeheartedly say that it was the worst revamp of an MMO ever. Not only did they halve the number of usable battle commands, but they also removed the ability to switch professions. At the time, SOE vowed that it change the game and make it more exciting, but in the end, it pretty much destroyed party play, and the only thing that was epic about the legacy quest that replaced party leveling was the massive migraine you would get. In addition, SOE released the Trials of Obi Wan expansion several days before the NGE, and so many players were enraged by the dumbing down and quit that SOE was forced to offer refunds to players who had pre-ordered the expansion. All-in-all, it's a textbook case of what NOT to do when overhauling an MMO.

This is also why I originally said no to radical changes in the players poll. You may come up with good ideas, but it's more likely you'll wind up with crap.

SWG char: Athrun Kai-Zal, master Carbineer pre NGE, lv 90 Drunken Jedi post NGE of the Ahazi server.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

This is also why I originally said no to radical changes in the players poll. You may come up with good ideas, but it's more likely you'll wind up with crap.

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Agreed. If SE really wants a whole new combat system and are willing to invest the time and money into it, they would pretty much have to set up a test server just for that system, make sure any player can access it, see it, and give feedback on it, and then go through multiple iterations BASED ON THE PLAYER'S FEEDBACK before making it a part of the game. But that would take a lot of time, effort, money, and most of all willpower to do it right.

And as I said, it should have been started months ago.

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Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Agreed. If SE really wants a whole new combat system and are willing to invest the time and money into it, they would pretty much have to set up a test server just for that system, make sure any player can access it, see it, and give feedback on it, and then go through multiple iterations BASED ON THE PLAYER'S FEEDBACK before making it a part of the game. But that would take a lot of time, effort, money, and most of all willpower to do it right.

And as I said, it should have been started months ago.

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I think the way it is right now, we are on a test server and this forum is our feedback lol.

But we paid for a "finished" game... even Warhammer (Failhammer?) wasn't this bad >.>

I wish there was a dislike button.

Either FFXIV is an Action MMO or a traditional strategic MMO. FFXIV will not be both so stop thinking it. FFXIV's also not going to be an Action MMO. The dev team is gearing the game toward the traditional style like FFXI. Play FFXIV or wait for a Kingdom Hearts MMO.

There will be no dodge, there will be no roll. If the gods are good there will be no jump.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Not that I know of, given Versus XIII has a different styled combat system all together and it's the same engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkZvd...ailpage#t=186s

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I've seen the versus info, its still very limited compared to what these players want lol. if you know what i mean. Compared to tera or something the jump feature from Versus is still limited. The gameplay is very fluid, they can do that in a rpg, I'd give them another 3-4 years before they can do this in an mmo. Maybe less if they haul ass.

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Originally Posted by Verecund

But we paid for a "finished" game... even Warhammer (Failhammer?) wasn't this bad >.>

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The only reason Warhammer didn't seem as bad was because the content was PvP. PvP is endless content, PvE is finite. Warhammer had really light content(it had quests to cap career level, but the high end dungeons weren't fleshed out or anything, the pvp 'content' that was scripted was the same, and the city sieging part was totally broken for over a year.

Anyway, point is, content is the key. The combat is not that bad(when you take some time to learn it), but there's nothing really enjoyable to DO. Auto attack and the same boring stuff(maybe even less with reduction in leve efficacy) is not the answer, more content was the answer with a good overhaul of the current battle system.

It seems my gut feeling was right at least about Yoshi and what feels to me as a complete lack of direction for the game. It seems the direciton is all over the place.

Kind of like my post :)

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I've seen the versus info, its still very limited compared to what these players want lol. if you know what i mean. Compared to tera or something the jump feature from Versus is still limited. The gameplay is very fluid, they can do that in a rpg, I'd give them another 3-4 years before they can do this in an mmo. Maybe less if they haul ass.

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I want a simple dodge function like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related This is a square enix mmo that was short lived with very similar controls to how it is now, except the action bar is on the top right instead of bottom of screen.

Using Q and E on the keyboard or shoulder buttons on the controller. Not super speedy flash dodge, but a simple hop to the left or right, maybe a lalafell cartwheel. It is not that complicated. The person can still get hit and will still have to use featherfoot to increase evasion. Auto attack, and all those strategic positioning still 100% possible. The difference is that when a mob does a body slam or hurls a massive fireball you won't be splat dead, either complete dodge or take less damage depending on how you managed to escape.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

I wish there was a dislike button.

Either FFXIV is an Action MMO or a traditional strategic MMO. FFXIV will not be both so stop thinking it. FFXIV's also not going to be an Action MMO. The dev team is gearing the game toward the traditional style like FFXI. Play FFXIV or wait for a Kingdom Hearts MMO.

There will be no dodge, there will be no roll. If the gods are good there will be no jump.

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Traditional Strategic MMO is dead. It is old and boring compared to the upcoming stuff and it will become even more obvious especially if they plan to have this game running for 10+ years. It needs to evolve or die like the dinosaurs. They need to take the stuff that worked, enhance it, and add new ideas to compete with newer MMORPGs. That is how the free market business world works. Otherwise, I play that other game that is better. And by I, I mean almost everybody except you. With the technological advancement we have achieved so far, there is no reason why a 2010 game cannot handle an over a decade old concept such as jump and dodge. It is not realistic to fight an elephant head on and not move out of the way if it tries to stump on you, or fall on you. You should not lose 800 hp and recover, you should be dead, with your guts and blood splattered on the pavement and your body flattened, even if you are the strongest man in the world.

Dip will give you tongue/lip cancer.

We had this in DDO and Age of Conan.
It doesn't work very well because of latency issues, and it hurts communication without voice chat because your character becomes idle when you begin talking.

Look at FF12 and FF13 and see how much Final Fantasy changed

they need to do it that way or die like the dinosaur

if you ppl don't like it, fine, just play FF1 - FF11 over and over

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

But they argue how much tera is better than ffxiv

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No, they do not.

They contend that Tera has a good combat system.

You're just jumping to conclusions, or looking to turn this thread into a "FFXIV vs X" war, or whatever I don't even care.

You're either trolling or you lack reading comprehension. Either way, fine whatever believe what you want because you probably stopped reading this response three posts ago.

I'm not saying to make the game like Tera. I'm saying a game that can easily rival Tera, and offer that little extra oomph to come out on top and have that Final Fantasy touch to it. I loved FFXI, but keeping it exactly like FFXI will kill FFXIV. It's even worse than FFXI now, it's easy mode, pick your difficulty, zerg fest, don't socialize, with lackluster abilities and spells. Look at FFXI's tornado vs. FFXIV's tornado, it looks like a green fart mist vs a giant green top. At this point, FFXIV copying FFXI cannot even compete against FFXI, what makes you think it can compete with Tera, PSO2, SWTOR, just to name a few?

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Originally Posted by Defmetal

We had this in DDO and Age of Conan.
It doesn't work very well because of latency issues, and it hurts communication without voice chat because your character becomes idle when you begin talking.

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It really is not a problem, even without voice chat. The auto attack ensures that you aren't really idle. Back in ffxi, when we are fighting Gods that required extensive kiting, we didn't use voice chat, yet our leaders still barked orders while kiting, healing, or attacking. Everyone revealed their tp and if their abilities are ready to go, and managed to set off skillchains and magic bursts(maybe you have no idea what those are if you didn't play ffxi) just fine.

Skillchains happens when you fire up the right weapon skill combination 2-3 seconds after the first guy uses his and it produces and explosive elemental effect that causes extra damage to the mob. Magic bursts are much stronger and less resisted magic damage that you can inflict on the mob when the skillchain effect goes off, you have to time it just right so your spell goes off before that big elemental ball disappears. This was the greatest joy to ffxi that is missing in ffxiv and not present at all in any of the action rpgs.

Now, combine skillchain + magic bursts + solo combos + auto attack + action rpg elements (jumping, dodging, backflipping, etc...) and we will have a game worthy of being online for 10 years.

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

No, they do not.

They contend that Tera has a good combat system.

You're just jumping to conclusions, or looking to turn this thread into a "FFXIV vs X" war, or whatever I don't even care.

You're either trolling or you lack reading comprehension. Either way, fine whatever believe what you want because you probably stopped reading this response three posts ago.

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Well you might as well quit. It will never have that combat system,and to expect it to.... Oh geez I don't even know. Yeah just quit

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

I wish there was a dislike button.

Either FFXIV is an Action MMO or a traditional strategic MMO. FFXIV will not be both so stop thinking it. FFXIV's also not going to be an Action MMO. The dev team is gearing the game toward the traditional style like FFXI. Play FFXIV or wait for a Kingdom Hearts MMO.

There will be no dodge, there will be no roll. If the gods are good there will be no jump.

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I could hug you. I won't, but I just want you to know I could.

So instead of a system where you can design encounters and play styles around a really limitless ability system like in traditional MMO's which are apparently dead, "next generation" MMO's allow you to dodge out of the way of abilities.

Okay, so I can do that right now in FFXIV with several mob's abilities as is and I wouldn't say it is the highlight of XIV's admittedly lackluster combat system nor is spamming my basic attack and as a pugilist I even have probably the most interesting set of basic attacks. I just don't think more of that type of gameplay is the answer. I know unreleased MMO's are "totally awesome and revolutionary", but I think the reality of those systems is that once the novelty of that "action" wears off it doesn't really do much to enhance gameplay.

Now personally what I would rather see were better and more varied abilities, and better encounter designs which require different approaches with a variety of tools and interactions between people in the group. That is what truly defines good combat in an MMO, not how "flashy" it is, "flashiness" is generally nothing but a distraction from something's lack of substance.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

So instead of a system where you can design encounters and play styles around a really limitless ability system like in traditional MMO's which are apparently dead, "next generation" MMO's allow you to dodge out of the way of abilities.

Okay, so I can do that right now in FFXIV with several mob's abilities as is and I wouldn't say it is the highlight of XIV's admittedly lackluster combat system nor is spamming my basic attack and as a pugilist I even have probably the most interesting set of basic attacks. I just don't think more of that type of gameplay is the answer. I know unreleased MMO's are "totally awesome and revolutionary", but I think the reality of those systems is that once the novelty of that "action" wears off it doesn't really do much to enhance gameplay.

Now personally what I would rather see were better and more varied abilities, and better encounter designs which require different approaches with a variety of tools and interactions between people in the group. That is what truly defines good combat in an MMO, not how "flashy" it is, "flashiness" is generally nothing but a distraction from something's lack of substance.

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Yes you can "dodge" right now, but do you notice it or you just see it in the chat log every once in awhile? You can also run away, when the mob is about to body slam on you or about to shoot you with lightning, but what if you can do it in a more elegant, better looking, faster way?

You can mention all those other games with jump and dodge all you want and how they failed, but you need to understand that those games only have the action rpg elements to it and not the "final fantasy touch". You swing a sword and thats it. You cast a spell and thats it. You use an ability and thats it. Nothing happens before, after, or in between. FFXI had the skillchain and magic bursts. FFXIV has the battle regimen system. I am just asking to combine everything + action rpg elements. It is not that complicated. It is not Traditional vs Action RPG. I am asking why it can't be both and then some.

Before you go over your head, allow me to show exactly what I want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related
That is Fantasy Earth Zero, a square enix made mmorpg that was short lived, made around 2005-2006, a 50 vs 50 pvp with very little pve elements. The controls are exactly how it is in FFXIV, Except you can jump and dodge. It's got the action bar, just like ffxiv, but in the top right with only 10 actions. It uses both the keyboard+mouse and the controller. I do not see how they can't implement this concept here. It's not a super fancy dodge, just a simple hop to the left or right, and it doesn't guarantee that you are unscathed after dodging.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

I think the way it is right now, we are on a test server and this forum is our feedback lol.

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Technically yes, realistically no. I'm talking about a whole different server with its own ruleset specifically for the purpose of having the players test new things before it is published to the rest of the game. I know EVE has a separate server for testing new things. GW has a test crewe (yes they misspelled it). There are a few others as well.

Let me make another scenario. You are a bystander. A tire just fell off a fast moving truck and it is now flying towards you at 80 mph, you only have less than second to make a decision, what do you do?
A) Stand there and take it because you think it will only cost you 1000 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
B) Block it with your hands because you think it will only cost you 500 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
C) Move out of the way by either sidestepping or jumping to the side (Action RPG style)
D) Do the matrix move

If you answered D, I will stab you in the jaw.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

I find the battle system kinda outdated and would look even more obviously outdated once people get a taste of Tera and maybe Phantasy Star Online 2. Auto attack was so 10 years ago with ffxi, and it's great, and we might get jump, but that's a much older basic move. The current battle system along with ffxi's battle sytem, people stood around in one place until the mob was dead. The most mobile person would be the puller, or the thief that have to setup sneak/trick attack. FFXI had its bits that were exciting such as kiting the angels in divine might, or running away from Kirin. It truly felt like you were in a real battle with real monsters, this was a time before zerging was invented btw.

Point is, you really shouldn't stand still against mobs that can crush you like an ant. Take for example the Great Buffalo NM, tanks just stand in front of it, healers take a few steps back because they know they can get one shotted, damage dealers just attack it without disregard for skills. Wouldn't it be great if the Great Buffalo chased everyone across the entire map, even in the camps, and a tank can get one shotted easily if they don't dodge at the exact time it does a weaponskill or a spell?

We need a sense of danger in this game, stop zerging all battles, stop being so stationary, and showcase some real skills that require split second timing. Yoshida said it himself in a famitsu interview translated by Reinhart, something like the best feeling is when you finish a battle and you do not get hit. I am proposing the addition of a dodge button to dodge left or right, and yes, you can work this around even with the controller, there are some functions that I could careless to be mapped on the controller, like emotes, map, camera mode, screenshot. What if, you were a damage dealer, and the Great Buffalo does the body slam and if you do not dodge on time, you are dead, just splat dead. Or, if you're really good, even as a tank, you can dodge almost everything and never get hit. That will make battles more difficult, more chaotic, and much more memorable and epic. Attacks that require certain conditions such as blindside can still be done, but this time with a lot more skill, communication, timing, and strategy. For example, during Kirin battle, a tank will have to stop from kiting for 2-3 seconds so damage dealers can setup weapon skillchains and magic bursts, otherwise it may never die if the party never perfects the strategy.

Seriously, watch a video of Tera with the player running in circles around the mob, trying to dodge, or the tanks actually line up spartan style to create a wall to protect the mages that stand behind them, and you will see how pale and boring the current battle system is, even with the addition of auto attack. Watch the upcoming trailer of phantasy star online 2 with being able to fight in midair. I'd say DC Universe online, but meh. If you think the game is in trouble now, it will be even more in trouble when the true next generation MMORPG's come out, even when it is considered "fixed".

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im pretty sure the instant death for tanks just for not dodging once and "NMs" chasing your group literally all over the map are extremes that pretty much anyone would dissagree with.
however
a dynamic battle system is pretty much the norm these days and will only become more-so by each game release. would i want a Final Fantasy that looked the part but played like (similar, not identical) to Tera? HELLLLL YESSSS! will i ever have that? i dont think so to be honest, for some reason SE seems to like the slower pased action and christian family disney friendly storylines.
i was not surprised when SE teamed up with disney, i just wish they had teamed up with Tim Burton instead /cry

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

im pretty sure the instant death for tanks just for not dodging once and "NMs" chasing your group literally all over the map are extremes that pretty much anyone would dissagree with.
however
a dynamic battle system is pretty much the norm these days and will only become more-so by each game release. would i want a Final Fantasy that looked the part but played like (similar, not identical) to Tera? HELLLLL YESSSS! will i ever have that? i dont think so to be honest, for some reason SE seems to like the slower pased action and christian family disney friendly storylines.
i was not surprised when SE teamed up with disney, i just wish they had teamed up with Tim Burton instead /cry

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That's why you have backup tanks. Well, maybe not instant kill a tank at this level, but maybe during endgame time. Rank 50 is far from endgame.

I sincerely doubt that they intended for people to be killing mobs almost 50 levels higher than their rank XD

...though it is also strange that such mobs would be there in the first place without a rhyme or reason... hmmm.....

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Let me make another scenario. You are a bystander. A tire just fell off a fast moving truck and it is now flying towards you at 80 mph, you only have less than second to make a decision, what do you do?
A) Stand there and take it because you think it will only cost you 1000 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
B) Block it with your hands because you think it will only cost you 500 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
C) Move out of the way by either sidestepping or jumping to the side (Action RPG style)
D) Do the matrix move

If you answered D, I will stab you in the jaw.

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Disconnect (FFXIV style)

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Yes you can "dodge" right now, but do you notice it or you just see it in the chat log every once in awhile? You can also run away, when the mob is about to body slam on you or about to shoot you with lightning, but what if you can do it in a more elegant, better looking, faster way?

You can mention all those other games with jump and dodge all you want and how they failed, but you need to understand that those games only have the action rpg elements to it and not the "final fantasy touch". You swing a sword and thats it. You cast a spell and thats it. You use an ability and thats it. Nothing happens before, after, or in between. FFXI had the skillchain and magic bursts. FFXIV has the battle regimen system. I am just asking to combine everything + action rpg elements. It is not that complicated. It is not Traditional vs Action RPG. I am asking why it can't be both and then some.

Before you go over your head, allow me to show exactly what I want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related
That is Fantasy Earth Zero, a square enix made mmorpg that was short lived, made around 2005-2006, a 50 vs 50 pvp with very little pve elements. The controls are exactly how it is in FFXIV, Except you can jump and dodge. It's got the action bar, just like ffxiv, but in the top right with only 10 actions. It uses both the keyboard+mouse and the controller. I do not see how they can't implement this concept here. It's not a super fancy dodge, just a simple hop to the left or right, and it doesn't guarantee that you are unscathed after dodging.

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Actually I was referring to the fact that you can "manually" dodge out of the way of attacks. Mostly frontal attacks once the mob begins their animation, such as with puks and many other mobs. Not evade as in the skill. However the more the game focuses on that kind of gameplay in my opinion the simpler and less strategic combat becomes and combat especially at the high end becomes repetitive and shallow.

I played FFXI at launch and I still remember the people in that game doing the whole "manual" dodge dance around mobs. It was a funny sight, but yeah I don't want to be doing that dance on high end encounters all the time because just like in XI frankly it is stupid. You can find videos of Tera with people do this exact same "manual" dodge dance people who didn't know any better in XI were doing, because that is what you get with "action" combat. I'd rather have it built into the mechanics like in traditional MMO's so that I can actually focus on and do more during combat. I prefer the complexity "traditional" MMO mechanics can offer over the "flashiness" of simply rolling in the dirt every 5 seconds, and I think they should build on that rather than actually regressing back to hack and slash mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Actually I was referring to the fact that you can "manually" dodge out of the way of attacks. Mostly frontal attacks once the mob begins their animation, such as with puks and many other mobs. Not evade as in the skill. However the more the game focuses on that kind of gameplay in my opinion the simpler and less strategic combat becomes and combat especially at the high end becomes repetitive and shallow.

I played FFXI at launch and I still remember the people in that game doing the whole "manual" dodge dance around mobs. It was a funny sight, but yeah I don't want to be doing that dance on high end encounters all the time because just like in XI frankly it is stupid. You can find videos of Tera with people do this exact same "manual" dodge dance people who didn't know any better in XI were doing, because that is what you get with "action" combat. I'd rather have it built into the mechanics like in traditional MMO's so that I can actually focus on and do more during combat. I prefer the complexity "traditional" MMO mechanics can offer over the "flashiness" of simply rolling in the dirt every 5 seconds, and I think they should build on that rather than actually regressing back to hack and slash mechanics.

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What are you talking about? FFXI did not have a dodge button. You can run away, and sometimes you don't get hit if you're far enough, but I wouldn't call that a manual dodge dance. Adding dodge buttons doesn't mean the game will go back to hack and slash mechanics, it can still retain all the auto attack, strategic maneuvering, use any and all your skills you have now, even stuff that enhances evasion. Except now, you can dodge left or right if you want to, or you can just walk if you are absolutely against it. Not only will it add more strategy to the game, it would add more difficulty, and force people to pay attention more. How many people in real life do you know got hit by a train and lost 2000 hit points? None, they were all splattered to pieces because it is not realistic to stand in front of a moving train and just lose hit points and survive.

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Originally Posted by Petori

Disconnect (FFXIV style)

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Wrong answer, you just got decapitated by the tire because you cannot disconnect in real life, unless it involves suicide. So you're dead either way.

My main is PUG and i can tell ya, i dodge all the time. I dodge like a boxer even. I see the OPs point, and yeah that would be pretty cool, but this game is was probably intended to stay true to the Final Fantasy RPG style. Basically, if i wanted to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge, i'd play a fighting game, not an RPG. Remember, this game is an RPG at its base.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

What are you talking about? FFXI did not have a dodge button. You can run away, and sometimes you don't get hit if you're far enough, but I wouldn't call that a manual dodge dance. Adding dodge buttons doesn't mean the game will go back to hack and slash mechanics, it can still retain all the auto attack, strategic maneuvering, use any and all your skills you have now, even stuff that enhances evasion. Except now, you can dodge left or right if you want to, or you can just walk if you are absolutely against it. Not only will it add more strategy to the game, it would add more difficulty, and force people to pay attention more. How many people in real life do you know got hit by a train and lost 2000 hit points? None, they were all splattered to pieces because it is not realistic to stand in front of a moving train and just lose hit points and survive.

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Again that wasn't what I was talking about, think of it like how FFXIV works where you can move out of the way of abilities so they lose their line of sight and miss only in FFXI it didn't work. But people still did it anyways, this was early after NA release. We called it manual dodge, and it was somewhat of a joke on those who we saw doing it.

Your suggestion doesn't add strategy to the game really because if you watch videos of games with "action" combat like Tera you can see that they spend a great deal of their time dodging, and aiming attacks, but it is really not that strategic. Perhaps it could be, but practically it just isn't. The reason that traditional MMORPG mechanics are much more strategic is because all of that basic stuff is abstracted allowing players to focus on more advanced techniques.

The more you try and "simulate" reality with combat in an RPG the simpler it becomes because real combat takes a lifetime to master to the extent that our characters in-game supposedly have. So when developers put these mechanics in they have to design encounters that are less demanding in other areas. Personally, I would rather spend an "epic battle" managing more complex aspects of combat strategy than constantly running circles around a mob while trying to keep my reticule centered. You and everyone else praising Tera's combat system as revolutionary and "next-gen" other than missing the point that the game is already flopping in Korea should realize this has been tried before and the results weren't as spectacular as you seem to hope. It's great if you like "flashy" effects, but it just lacks substance in the way that even XI's limited combat system was able to provide in abundance.

news for you you dont know how its gonna play a video can show anything, remember how everyone was dieing for ffxiv from the videos all we know it can be another zerg mobs to hell.
we have to play it first to say anything.

Agreed that the combat system is crap

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Originally Posted by indira

news for you you dont know how its gonna play a video can show anything, remember how everyone was dieing for ffxiv from the videos all we know it can be another zerg mobs to hell.
we have to play it first to say anything.

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I want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related
It's the exact same controls we have now, except only 10 buttons on the action bar on the top right instead of the bottom. I know exactly how it plays because I played it. It didn't have the best graphics, but the gameplay was awesome.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Again that wasn't what I was talking about, think of it like how FFXIV works where you can move out of the way of abilities so they lose their line of sight and miss only in FFXI it didn't work. But people still did it anyways, this was early after NA release. We called it manual dodge, and it was somewhat of a joke on those who we saw doing it.

Your suggestion doesn't add strategy to the game really because if you watch videos of games with "action" combat like Tera you can see that they spend a great deal of their time dodging, and aiming attacks, but it is really not that strategic. Perhaps it could be, but practically it just isn't. The reason that traditional MMORPG mechanics are much more strategic is because all of that basic stuff is abstracted allowing players to focus on more advanced techniques.

The more you try and "simulate" reality with combat in an RPG the simpler it becomes because real combat takes a lifetime to master to the extent that our characters in-game supposedly have. So when developers put these mechanics in they have to design encounters that are less demanding in other areas. Personally, I would rather spend an "epic battle" managing more complex aspects of combat strategy than constantly running circles around a mob while trying to keep my reticule centered. You and everyone else praising Tera's combat system as revolutionary and "next-gen" other than missing the point that the game is already flopping in Korea should realize this has been tried before and the results weren't as spectacular as you seem to hope. It's great if you like "flashy" effects, but it just lacks substance in the way that even XI's limited combat system was able to provide in abundance.

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You really only have to dodge on possible kill shots, which is enough to keep you on your toes. You also do not have to spend a great deal of time aiming because we have auto target, auto lock on, and auto attack. Everything we can do now, we can still do, you name it we can do it even with dodging added. We still keep the strategy mechanics, all of it.

I'm not saying to make it exactly like Tera with Tera combat system. I'm saying just add dodging with our existing combat system. That doesn't make it like Tera, Age of Conan, or whatever action mmorpg you can name that failed. It does not take a lifetime to master, at some point it becomes instinct, just like pulling in ffxi, or keeping utsusemi up.

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Originally Posted by Serio

My main is PUG and i can tell ya, i dodge all the time. I dodge like a boxer even. I see the OPs point, and yeah that would be pretty cool, but this game is was probably intended to stay true to the Final Fantasy RPG style. Basically, if i wanted to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge, i'd play a fighting game, not an RPG. Remember, this game is an RPG at its base.

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Wait till PVP is available.

In FF, those are called Limit Breaks.... :p

I like both turn-based and active-time battle styles of play, but I think of FF as turn-based style. I think it works better that way, because you are a single person controling a team.

The solutions that SE came up for with XII and XIII, in using ATB, weren't bad, but I like having full control of the different characters better. Of course, you can keep control in XII if you want to, but in the big battles you really just don't have time.

For an mmo... yes, you could speed things up, but I still like the method used now. There's no telling what it will be like when they change the battle system, but I don't think they will be changing it that much.

You can already dodge attacks in this game, you dont need a button added for it..

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Let me make another scenario. You are a bystander. A tire just fell off a fast moving truck and it is now flying towards you at 80 mph, you only have less than second to make a decision, what do you do?
A) Stand there and take it because you think it will only cost you 1000 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
B) Block it with your hands because you think it will only cost you 500 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
C) Move out of the way by either sidestepping or jumping to the side (Action RPG style)
D) Do the matrix move

If you answered D, I will stab you in the jaw.

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I pick E, quickly perform a snap lane change, dodging the tire with inches to spare, and continue my commute.

F press the dodge button...