Top DPS in you t5 clearing groups?

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

I'm curious about this as well. The DPS column hasn't ever been turned on by default in my ACT. I was looking at the screens and was like "Why isn't that there in mine?" Anyway I've always just gone by the EncDPS.

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Yeah I turned it on since I saw players post SS with EncDPS off while DPS is on. Not sure which one is more accurate. There is also a tab called Outgoing Damage (Ref) which include all your buffs added to the EncDPS & DPS, for me it results in 10-12 extra DPS (it is not in the SS I posted).

Edit:

Someone on reddit posted this:

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"EncDPS is your dps over the entire encounter (Damage done / length of the encounter). DPS is only while you were active (Damage done / active time).
Generally they should be the same/similar unless you started much later than other people or died."

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Now the question is which one should we care about? In short EncDPS will be effected by boss mechanics such as conflag and divebombs while DPS won't since it is like a stop watch from what I understand (maybe I'm wrong).

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Yeah I turned it on since I saw players post SS with EncDPS off while DPS is on. Not sure which one is more accurate. There is also a tab called Outgoing Damage (Ref) which include all your buffs added to the EncDPS & DPS, for me it results in 10-12 extra DPS (it is not in the SS I posted).

Edit:

Someone on reddit posted this:



Now the question is which one should we care about?

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I'd say EncDPS easily. When there's times when you can't do anything, but the fight is still going on it should count in my book otherwise it'll skew the readings (more than they can already get).

Now about the All Outgoing (Ref) I see the same ~10 DPS increase on this parse I just did, but it's showing buffs doing damage. Like all my forms have damage as well as my DPS buff CDs. 2.5k damage that I didn't actually do.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

I'd say EncDPS easily. When there's times when you can't do anything, but the fight is still going on it should count in my book otherwise it'll skew the readings (more than they can already get).

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Agreed otherwise Death would be a non factor also. In addition I think I figured out what is Outgoing Damage (Ref) doing. It is artificially adding a little bit of damage to buffs even though they do 0 damage so it can record it and archive it correctly.

Edit: maybe we should use both DPS and EncDPS afterall.

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

That's sort of nice, the only problem is that its highlighting the other members in that group did very poorly because the spiders shouldn't last long enough for anyone to accumulate that much damage. The MNK in that parse is nearly 100 DPS lower than he should be, for instance and the WAR is doing about 60% of what he should be doing; most of which is from AoE on the spiders. If they had been playing how they should have been playing the damage would have flattened.

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http://puu.sh/7zB10.png

Still close to 400 dps with another good aoe in the group.

WHM also spamming holy. Spider phases were incredibly short.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

http://puu.sh/7zB10.png

Still close to 400 dps with another good aoe in the group.

WHM also spamming holy. Spider phases were incredibly short.

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I see, this does effect EncDPS as it is Damage done/fight length. The more damage the entire group does the shorter the encounter which results in higher dps for everyone. My group for example don't have the healers do anything except heal. I'm able to get 3x Fire 2 and double flares on the spiders phase for example. I wonder how it would work for us if WHM & SCH did some damage in T1 & T4.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

I see, this does effect EncDPS as it is Damage done/fight length. The more damage the entire group does the shorter the encounter which results in higher dps for everyone. My group for example don't have the healers do anything except heal. I'm able to get 3x Fire 2 and double flares on the spiders phase for example. I wonder how it would work for us if WHM & SCH did some damage in T1 & T4.

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This is exactly why many of the dps screenshots should be taken with a pinch of salt xD

Our one grp for example has lowish physical dps, so the soldiers are dead long before the knights. Also tank pick-up time on the aoe phases make a huge difference, e.g. I have astral 3 up and already used 1/2 Fire II on a few adds before they are stacked up properly to burn them down.

As stated, EncDPS is for the full detected encounter length, ignoring how much time you specifically had in contact with targets.

"DPS" is the raw DPS that should align more closely with how much time you spent in contact with the boss.

In general, EncDPS is more relevant and more useful. However, "DPS" is also useful for more specific interpretations.

For example, if you want to know your exact, true DPS, then "DPS" is more useful as long as it's for a fight that is stable (you ran up to the boss and pressed buttons for 5 minutes straight then the target died).

There are also a few rare cases when EncDPS is completely non-representative of your DPS -- Atomos for example. Generally speaking, the Atomos "encounter" lasts for a long time. If your DPS is good, your Atomos dies very quickly. As a result the total encounter is like 2x-3x the time that should be applied to your damage. The difference between EncDPS and DPS is also very important to measure specific things like Titan Heart DPS or Gaol DPS or Dreadknight DPS. The EncDPS for these things will be very low -- 20, 40, 60 EncDPS. That is because the target is only up for a short time over the whole fight. However, the DPS column will show your direct DPS on the target -- more along the lines of 250, 300, etc.

The situations where the "DPS" column is not effective is when you randomly start dying, and if you are trying to measure your actual worth to the whole fight -- EncDPS is better for that. Think about it -- if you have a higher DPS because you afk'd the first 4 minutes of the fight then started attacking with max buffs, and the fight ends at 4:30, were you very useful? No. Hence EncDPS is generally a better measure of how well you DPS'd the entire encounter.


Edit:

Sidenote: 35x dps on Cad when I fucked up my first Chaos Thrust during BFB. My group refused to wipe so I could re-do the fight :(. And they wouldn't wait 60 seconds for my DFD or SSD. >.>.

345 on T4 when I went ham with my TP bar. 335 on T5 with near-perfect RNG (1 Conflag, 1 Dreadstun, only 1 liquid hell in melee area on the tank, 0 on mdps), although I need to check the detailed parse because I had to merge them (pets didn't get hit by divebombs).

I will post SS's if I remember tonight.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

Now about the All Outgoing (Ref) I see the same ~10 DPS increase on this parse I just did, but it's showing buffs doing damage. Like all my forms have damage as well as my DPS buff CDs. 2.5k damage that I didn't actually do.

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Yeah, I noticed that when I imported from archive. Do not use All Outgoing after importing. When I was looking at that after the import it even had the heal from Life Surge listed under All Outgoing as damage.

Outgoing Damage should list damage output correctly, although I'm not sure about after an import from archive. For a clean parse it should be fine. For an import you need to scrub the detailed parse to make sure it's correct. In some of my recorded parses, my Outgoing Damage had Fire 3, Fire 2, Heavy Shot, Rage of Halone, etc, after importing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. No fix other than to toss that parse and find another.

If you look at it, take Fire I Median DMG, divide it buy the "DPS", you essentially get the Cast time of Fire I + the GCD, it's probably the same for all the abilities, DPS doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual fight, it probably just estimates each abilities "DPS", given its DMG vs it's Cast+GCD time? Which would be why the EncDPS and DPS are so wildly large for flare, 14~ vs 899 lol.

I dunno, I've always only used EncDPS, as do most people I see post parse results, I've never had "DPS" turned on.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Yeah, I noticed that when I imported from archive. Do not use All Outgoing after importing. When I was looking at that after the import it even had the heal from Life Surge listed under All Outgoing as damage.

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ACT has always been very finicky for me. Even sharing exact copies of settings with people, we could get vastly different readings. Sometimes it just breaks itself so bad I just have to reinstall it, however lately its been very stable for me. Like I commented earlier, not sure whats up with your imports, but mine are always right on the money as my fresh parses. Its just one of those weird things I suppose, but I still always check cuz its betrayed me before in the past <.<

You should always use EncDPS...DPS is worthless because it doesn't take into account the duration of he encounter. I could sit and do nothing wait until one second before a fight is over, flare, then itll say I did 1k dps when I didn't.

Your dps worth is always your dmg/length of the fight so EncDPS is the only DPS value that matters. Well and your Outgoing Dmg.

DPS for Titan Heart, Titan Gaols, and Titan Egis are more important than EncDPS for Titan.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

DPS for Titan Heart, Titan Gaols, and Titan Egis are more important than EncDPS for Titan.

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Actually again its not because like I said before, I can merely flare at the end of any of those phases with 1% left on the goal, heart or an egi and it will say I did something very high when really I contributed nothing to any of those mobs.

If you were trying to make a case against it, outgoing damage was the way to go. DPS is worthless. I understand you may be new to ACT, but DPS isn't something worth looking at because it can be very skewed.

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Originally Posted by GhaleonM

If you were trying to make a case against it, outgoing damage was the way to go. DPS is worthless. I understand you may be new to ACT, but DPS isn't something worth looking at because it can be very skewed.

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I don't make it a habit to group with people who afk until the last moment and drop a burst to intentionally skew secondary metrics. I suppose your experience is different?

You may not realize it if you are new to ACT, but there is also a duration field so you can identify results that are inapplicable due to short contact time.

As a side thing, how else would you propose to parse Atomos DPS?

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Just remembered that ACT stores data in history. Does you friend know he can pull up past encounters without the game up? =P
Looking through the cad fights from the last 6 weeks, I average about 320... I'll have to look into that but our SMN is pulling about 265 with pet dps. T5 was closer than I thought as our SMN pulled about 290 but still the DRG was over 310. Not sure how we are parsing higher on Twin than we are straight burn on Cad <__< kinda bizarre. I wonder if maybe something is skewing the data.

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DRG parsing 310, more than they do on Cad, is an issue of the fight duration being cut short - on Twintania, ACT must be set to not drop combat when not applying damage for ~30 seconds.
Look at total duration. Anything less than ~10 minutes means you dropped combat and it's not the full fight.

You can merge parses and the error is generally low-ish.

In any case, parses as promised:

T1 (missed CT): http://imgur.com/eKc4G1J,iqIMIwD,ZSFSkIv#0
T4 (dumping TP): http://imgur.com/eKc4G1J,iqIMIwD,ZSFSkIv#1
T5 (near-perfect fight RNG): http://imgur.com/eKc4G1J,iqIMIwD,ZSFSkIv#2

Edit: The correct T5 DPS in this parse is about 324, not 335, due to merging errors.

What do you set your encounter culling at easy?

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Originally Posted by Airwolfe

DRG parsing 310, more than they do on Cad, is an issue of the fight duration being cut short - on Twintania, ACT must be set to not drop combat when not applying damage for ~30 seconds.
Look at total duration. Anything less than ~10 minutes means you dropped combat and it's not the full fight.

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You are talking about "Number of seconds to wait after the last combat action to begin a new encounter" option?

I have it set to 12 seconds.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

I don't make it a habit to group with people who afk until the last moment and drop a burst to intentionally skew secondary metrics. I suppose your experience is different?

You may not realize it if you are new to ACT, but there is also a duration field so you can identify results that are inapplicable due to short contact time.

As a side thing, how else would you propose to parse Atomos DPS?

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You do realize even one second in a delay will heavily skew the DPS reading in ACT. And I already told you, outgoing dmg is the only way to value DPS on a mob that's like Atomos to see excactly how much dmg you're doing OR you can just end the counter once its dead to get an accurate dps reading like I do on those. Whether you like it or not DPS is worthless.

FTR I'm not new to ACT is originates from EQ2, a game I played from launch I know and understands how it works unlike most people who are just now being introduced to it.

In T1 our Smn is Top dps, and pretty much every turn in Coil.

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Originally Posted by GhaleonM

You do realize even one second in a delay will heavily skew the DPS reading in ACT. And I already told you, outgoing dmg is the only way to value DPS on a mob that's like Atomos to see excactly how much dmg you're doing OR you can just end the counter once its dead to get an accurate dps reading like I do on those. Whether you like it or not DPS is worthless.

FTR I'm not new to ACT is originates from EQ2, a game I played from launch I know and understands how it works unlike most people who are just now being introduced to it.

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So you are saying look at the total damage not the DPS or EncDPS?

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Originally Posted by GhaleonM

FTR I'm not new to ACT is originates from EQ2, a game I played from launch I know and understands how it works unlike most people who are just now being introduced to it.

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I'm new to ACT so I'd like to ask: how the encounters should be set up to get accurate readings? So far I've mostly been running it stock with encounter end timer at 6 seconds and merging encounters or using the "all" tabs for the whole encounter with no wipes. But I have a feeling that the encounter end timer might be cutting out DoTs and stopping the encounter timer if there are disconnects longer than the stop timer, thus skewing the EncDPS count by reducing off time, but I'm not really sure how it works. Is it better to have a really long end timer to keep everything in one encounter and then end manually? Or if you keep a shorter timer, that you don't worry about, does it still give out accurate readings?

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

So you are saying look at the total damage not the DPS or EncDPS?

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Depends on how you view DPS...imo I count the times where nothing happens as part of the encounter so I always look at EncDPS no matter the gaps in time its all relative to the fight. Now if you wanted to know something specific using EasyModeX's examples like the dmg on Titan's Gaol's or the heart, with ACT you can simply look at the dmg done to that specific mob to see who is doing the most dmg to it etc. my whole point is the DPS column is ACT is worthless and should never be used to look at for any reason tbh. It's just not accurate...one second can heavily skew numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Is it better to have a really long end timer to keep everything in one encounter and then end manually? Or if you keep a shorter timer, that you don't worry about, does it still give out accurate readings?

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I have my encounter stopping at 11 seconds, but for fights like Twin if you don't want to break you can set it to around 20, only issue is for short fights it might merge them together, but for the most part that'll only be trash. Longer the ending timer the better for this game tbh imo.

^

I always stop parsin straight when the boss is dead or the end result is just not valid. Was usin Act on AoC / TSW aswell, dps column is simply to be forgotten

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Originally Posted by GhaleonM

I already told you, outgoing dmg is the only way to value DPS on a mob that's like Atomos to see excactly how much dmg you're doing

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Comparing total damage is worthless when comparing between different attempts. Your total damage if you have good DPS party members will be much lower than if you have crappy teammates, even if you do more DPS.

Try harder, much harder.

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FTR I'm not new to ACT is originates from EQ2, a game I played from launch I know and understands how it works unlike most people who are just now being introduced to it.

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Rofl. You can stop trying to be cool now, kid.



That tangent aside, I have my encounter culling at 16s or something. If pets don't get hit by divebombs, you have like a guaranteed 30 second gap in the T5 fight, so you'd have to set it at 30s or higher to get consolidated T5 parses. However, 30s is pretty high and can impact other instances. I'm too lazy to change it just for T5, so I just merge the T5 segments.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Comparing total damage is worthless when comparing between different attempts. Your total damage if you have good DPS party members will be much lower than if you have crappy teammates, even if you do more DPS.
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Is it not the same case with EncDPS, shorter fight = higher DPS. If the healers are doing damage making the fight much shorter than usual, EncDPS will sky rocket.

I think I'm missing something.

Not really -- the DPS'ers damage per second will be the same. Their total damage will be lower since the healers end the fight sooner. E.g. DPS player does 300 DPS for 40 seconds instead of 60 seconds. Same damage per second but shorter fight time, so 12k damage instead of 18k.

The only caveat is that the exact time of the fight can be influenced by the DPSer's buff timing, so if the fight is shorter and BFB/Raging Strikes would have otherwise been up, then the shift could reduce their DPS.

The only other exception is if the fight has high and low periods of DPS for a class (like T4 for BLMs). For example, BLMs do high DPS during p1/4 on T4. If healers DPS during P2/3/5/6, then those "low DPS" segments of the fight (for the BLM) will be reduced, and the high DPS segments will be inflated, spiking the BLM parse.

If healers only DPS during p1/4 with lolol Holy, then the BLM parse will actually be reduced because less of the fight exists during high DPS periods.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Is it not the same case with EncDPS, shorter fight = higher DPS. If the healers are doing damage making the fight much shorter than usual, EncDPS will sky rocket.

I think I'm missing something.

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Actually this is exactly correct the shorter the fight the higher the EncDPS will be for the most part. Lets say you clear turn 1 one week in 3:30 seconds then the following week you kill it in 3min. You will see higher overall avg of enounter DPS being youre doing the same damage in a shorter time period meaning your avg dmg is higher to have killed it faster.

EasyModeX has no idea wtf he is talking about, he busying making fake parses with MS Paint rather than understanding how ACT actually works.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Comparing total damage is worthless when comparing between different attempts. Your total damage if you have good DPS party members will be much lower than if you have crappy teammates, even if you do more DPS.

Try harder, much harder.



Rofl. You can stop trying to be cool now, kid.



That tangent aside, I have my encounter culling at 16s or something. If pets don't get hit by divebombs, you have like a guaranteed 30 second gap in the T5 fight, so you'd have to set it at 30s or higher to get consolidated T5 parses. However, 30s is pretty high and can impact other instances. I'm too lazy to change it just for T5, so I just merge the T5 segments.

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Total dmg is a better comparison if you're going to make one in regards to looking at DPS. As I stated before I only look at EncDPS only. Remember you think the DPS category has uses when it has none, zero, no point in looking at it.

The DPS field indicates your time-on-target DPS.

It's highly useful for getting accurate reads on DPS for Atomos, or for pure DPS on a stable fight where you don't begin the encounter at time=0. It's moderately useful for player DPS potential on short adds like conflags or gaols or Titan's heart.


You're trying way too hard to be smarter than you are.

Just wondering: "highly useful" and "DPS for Atomos" in the same sentence? Don't misunderstand me please, but why'd you parse CT runs?

Using EncDPS when you have stuff like healers doing damage may actually lower your DPS in fights like T5. It means you spend a higher percentage of the fight not pressing buttons because they die faster therefore the time you are pressing buttons has less time to account for making mistakes. One mistake will have a bigger impact on a shorter fight then a longer one.

Total damage means nothing. If I do a fight with a PUG DPS and my total damage is 100k and then do the same fight with my static melee team mate who is really good and my damage is 80k that doesn't mean I did better or worse. Total damage done is a terrible way to figure out how good or bad you are doing.

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Originally Posted by Jestor

Using EncDPS when you have stuff like healers doing damage may actually lower your DPS in fights like T5. It means you spend a higher percentage of the fight not pressing buttons because they die faster therefore the time you are pressing buttons has less time to account for making mistakes. One mistake will have a bigger impact on a shorter fight then a longer one.

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I see what you're getting at but you're misguided. If the fight is shorter due to healer pew pew then enforced downtime or player-sourced screw-ups will make up a larger fraction of the fight. Sure. The EncDPS will be lower.

However, the source of the lower DPS is fundamentally the RNG (conflag/dreadstun) or your failure to press the right buttons.

The magnitude of the DPS penalty changes because you have "more time to make up" for the DPS fluctuation ... the "healer pew pew" / shorter fight duration has a fringe effect on the resulting EncDPS, but not any major or direct impact. Having a fractional adjustment on the actual impact (RNG conflag or missing your button) is generally pretty minor.

I wouldn't put much emphasis on this secondary skew unless we're talking major shifts in fight duration. Even in those cases, I'd say the player should keep parsing for a better RNG attempt, or press their buttons better.

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Total damage done is a terrible way to figure out how good or bad you are doing.

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Total damage is basically only useful within a single parse/attempt within the same group for a direct comparison.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

The DPS field indicates your time-on-target DPS.

It's highly useful for getting accurate reads on DPS for Atomos, or for pure DPS on a stable fight where you don't begin the encounter at time=0. It's moderately useful for player DPS potential on short adds like conflags or gaols or Titan's heart.


You're trying way too hard to be smarter than you are.

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You don't get it DPS doesn't start until You the player engages the mob. Unless you hit the mob at the exact moment the mob is engaged it will be flawed period. I have no need to prove whether or not I'm smart I know how ACT works and reads and its apparent you don't. DPS is never accurate for anything. So no its not highly accurate even for Atomos most people hitting that mob aren't hitting it the moment the fight starts.

Please stick to Dragoon rotations because ACT is over your head.

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Originally Posted by GhaleonM

You don't get it DPS doesn't start until You the player engages the mob.

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Shocking new revelation!

Do you have anything of value to add?

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DPS is never accurate for anything.

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It's accurate for damage per second for the time you spent in contact with the target.

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So no its not highly accurate even for Atomos most people hitting that mob aren't hitting it the moment the fight starts.

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Lol. My EncDPS on Atomos is around 280. My DPS on Atomos is around 360. Guess what those numbers represent?

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Please stick to Dragoon rotations because ACT is over your head.

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Qqqqqqqqq.

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Originally Posted by Kicoe

Just wondering: "highly useful" and "DPS for Atomos" in the same sentence? Don't misunderstand me please, but why'd you parse CT runs?

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Parse everything and always push yourself to improve even by a percent of a percent.

What else is there to do in this game right now?

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Parse everything and always push yourself to improve even by a percent of a percent.

What else is there to do in this game right now?

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Exactly. Its tanks jobs to learn proper positioning, when to best use cooldowns, and how to keep there target on them while taking as little damage as possible. Its healers jobs to remove status effects, keep people alive or revive them, and to do so using as little MP as possible. Its our job as DPS to be constantly striving to do more damage, as safely as possible. There is certainly more to DPS than that, but this is the raw idea of it. Parsing everything helps you accomplish this, and CT is a good place to "practice" your DPS and figure out ways to further increase it, since there is a lot of room for error in CT.

More importantly, there's really nothing else more interesting to do in CT except parse Atomos while you try to get vanity drops (or the CT belt to min-max non-Coil gear for DRGs at any rate). I mean, the only other fun thing to do is to try and out-DPS the raid while wearing a snowman outfit, but that gets you kicked by people with anger management issues.

This is depressing as a BLM. I have been trying to reliably break 300-320~ EncDPS/DPS single target damage mark in 3 minutes (solo) but it seems even with good RNG it is not possible. Unfortunately our rotation is restricted by fixed second mana tick. Before 2.1 we can somewhat skilfully control it to an extent but meh :(.

I can only hope in 2.2 I can reach solid 25% crit chance to help boost single target damage.