"If you die twice, you're out"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

Okay I get it. How would you explain to rage quitters who do duty finder and do not get a win? I mean honestly, I usually do duty finder parties with the expectation that things will go wrong and a win is not going to happen. However, there are some hot heads that really get fired up cause of a fail on the first or second attempt.

Guess I'm just optimistic. I look at any try as progress and learning.

---

We need more people like you on Ragnarok, I'm being serious.

Does everyone who pays their $15/mo not have the option to play with people who have a similar play style/mindset? If it's not your play style, don't join! Perhaps join a learning group, or form your own group with guidelines you're comfortable with.

I find it a bit ridiculous that anyone should assume that the all leaders of "X deaths = replacement" parties are looking for a carry. Are some? Sure. Are all? Absolutely not. I formed learning parties for Titan X until I had a good grasp of the fight and consistently did not die. Then, I formed a "two death rule" PF and, after 3 people (amicably) leaving on their own after their 2nd deaths (to plumes and landslides, mind you), we downed him with zero mistakes. It was a polite, civil affair from start to finish, with no drama whatsoever.

Equally ridiculous is the derogatory use of the word "elitist" to describe players who want to play with others who have a similar play style. It's no different than the derogatory use of the word "casual" for players who don't prefer a hardcore play style. Unless you're an asshole to folks to don't share your gaming mindset, it's all just preference, and we all pay or $15/mo sub to play.

Just play the game with like-minded people and stop worrying so much about what everyone else saying or doing. It's more fun for everyone that way. ;)

here is a perfect example! I'm a good player@ I can do all primal fights with minimal mistakes as a PLD, BARD, or WHM! I can't do twintania at all. Wanna know why? I have no progression group willing to put up with my mistakes. EVERYONE wants people who have cleared or know the fight 100%. This kills my progression because unless i lie...i can't get in any twintania practice. Or i have to find a group of people who also need it but it seems the majority of the community struggle with turn 4 so finding people to do twintania is rare. So now i can't progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delsai

I have only played this game for only a few days but in my years of playing MMO's I have never seen such a thing before. Why has the MMO community grown so sour? What ever happened to community and adventuring where we learned from our mistakes and continued on?

Man I miss those days.

---

All players aren't gamers
and all gamers aren't playing ffxiv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

Guess I'm just optimistic. I look at any try as progress and learning.

---

Thats what I feel is wrong with a '2 strikes your out' rule. You are learning. To work with a new group. Granted it will not always end up as smooth as some expect it to be. It might take a couple swings at it before the group gets in the groove of things.

Id disagree that labeling for farm parties/strike outs is elitist. Thats understandable. As a guy who took a good 3-4 weeks to finally get his first Titan kill because of no one dodging or folk not knowing bombs I get the frustration and that want for a group who knows their stuff. The '2' strikes rule i'd say is kinda harsh and depending on the wording it can get elitist tho. I mean simple mistakes still can happen to the best of us. Maybe 3 or 4 deaths/strikes, since at that point something is consistently going wrong but 2? Puts on the pressure lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massterchef

Noone would call an MT a noob and/or kick him for pulling suparna in the first run on the spot.

---

More ppl living in their little bubble, thats so cute. ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gandora

More ppl living in their little bubble, thats so cute. ^^

---

I think you are the one living in your little bubble of despair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

I think you are the one living in your little bubble of despair.

---

I'm a sorry to disapoint you but I have much better things to think about than think of a bunch of pricks looking at their shinies thinking they're amazing players. You know things such as enjoying the game with other people & interacting with most of them in a non "self beneficial" way.

Inb4 you try a fail attempt at twisting my answer in your interest with something such as "You obviously care because you keep posting" again.

1) I care only when people like you try to justify such an asshole behavior in front of newest players because its what most of you guys do with no real or valid reason (see below) :
2) I'm minning & crafting at this exact time so i'm pretty bored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

because people are angry when you screw their things, it's the same as if you were doing a pretty drawing and then someone comes to burn it every time you are about to finish it, you kick him in the ass and try to avoid him as much as possible.

---

You are basicaly comparing someone who may have trouble to meet your expectations for whatever reason (which may or may not include the fact that they are trying to get carried) to someone being horrible on purpose/bullying you? Then I'm the one in my bubble of despair? lol

Thats what I meant early, what a stupid way of thinking, no wonder these people behave like twats and are anti-social, the whole eorzea is against them OMG, an army of noob everywhere! We must hide being our little screen & behave like twats because we are better, we deserve everyone's attention with our 2 piece of shiny pixel.

Just once I'd like people to approach this topic with some degree of civility... and yet... every time I open a thread like this I'm immediately disappointed. Even some of the *gasps* Lalafells *gasps* were rude in this thread! First time I've had to report people for blatantly antagonizing each other in awhile.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/...psdc794d25.png

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/...ps485337c7.png

I apologize for the size of the Text. I figured since my bad eyes can read it, that anyone else can...though I am the one that wrote it xD. Gonna try to make it Larger...just didnt want to be inconsiderate and Post 6 times..

Ok now both just off in size, but I believe readable lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

I think you are the one living in your little bubble of despair.

---

Agreed.

/words

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massterchef

Agreed.

/words

---

http://www.misseslambda.fr/wordpress...11/panurge.jpg

Being called an elitist is practically a compliment at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dijana

I often see it stated that you die once it's an auto-boot :/

---

I see it go as far as. If you die once your booted and blacklisted. I'm like...really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rahsch

I see it go as far as. If you die once your booted and blacklisted. I'm like...really?

---

You probably don't want to be playing with those kind of people anyway.

I'm sure this has been said countless times already, but party finder simply makes forming groups - of any kind - easier. There is no unspoken rule that you have to be an elitist to use PF, nor is there a rule that says casual players may not use PF. If you don't like those groups, don't join them! Make your own! Shocking concepts, I know.

Players need to stop being adamant about their own views and try to understand where the other side is coming from. For example, I'm a patient player. If someone is new, I'll take the time to teach them or give them advice. I'll happily wipe 5 or 6 times before starting to become discouraged. But at the end of the day, if I want to get something done with some assurance, I want to play with people at or near my own skill level. This goes for any game. If I just want to down Titan, I don't want to go through another 20 groups and countless hours of wiping to get it done.

That is how some of those "elitist" players feel. Yes, there are some who are truly "elitist" and refuse to accept anything short of perfection, but by and large, most people just want to get things done without spending hours wiping. None of you can honestly say that you've never been frustrated with DF or pugs and that you simply wanted to get it done. None.

It's funny how people automatically assume they're going to spend hour wiping by helping someone. My only issue is people getting super bent out of shape just because they lost 5-10 minutes off their usual time.

The real problem is I ONLY see the 2 deaths and you get kicked groups. Never learning groups.

Well if you want to incentivise people who have already learned it to help complete strangers you could pay them.

Oh wait :P

I'm using this kind of "filter" when I create a farm party in Party Finder. Putting 3 tries at the comment, and if I think the party is doing great and just had a few understandable mistakes, might consider a 4th run or even 5th.

Why do people have this in a game where this is NO death penalty in a game where if you die you don't even have to run back through the dungeon to the boss. In a game where if you die you just res inside the dungeon. I've never seen this attitude in any mmorpg but this one and this is the EASIEST ONE with no penalties

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faedden

Why do people have this in a game where this is NO death penalty in a game where if you die you don't even have to run back. In a game where if you die you just res inside the dungeon. I've never seen this attitude in any mmorpg but this one and this is the EASIEST ONE with no penalties

---

I said this before my first wipe(s) didn't even know we were wiping till many levels later, just thought the boss had super high HP >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hrist_Valkyrie

It's funny how people automatically assume they're going to spend hour wiping by helping someone. My only issue is people getting super bent out of shape just because they lost 5-10 minutes off their usual time.

---

You don't have to assume, its pretty much a guarantee with duty finder and if you say otherwise I would call you foolish and blind. People are sick of having to spend the whole hour training new people or dealing with bad players looking to get carried. When it comes to party finder, people don't have much patience left to deal with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlmightyBob

The real problem is I ONLY see the 2 deaths and you get kicked groups. Never learning groups.

---

Yeah, me too *rolls eyes*

http://i.imgur.com/I80sAVH.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gandora

I'm a sorry to disapoint you but I have much better things to think about than think of a bunch of pricks looking at their shinies thinking they're amazing players. You know things such as enjoying the game with other people & interacting with most of them in a non "self beneficial" way.

---

It seems like you've been kicked from a fair amount of parties and are using these forums to lash out at those who you think are guilty for kicking you.

Honestly, from what you've shown us, you've given me no reason to want to spend time with someone like you in this game: far worse than the people you paint as 'twats' for using the PF as it was intended to be used.

It's really not hard and I'll repeat what I and others have said many times: if you don't like the rules of certain PF groups, you are more than capable of making your own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

I never join parties which threaten you with kicks, simple as that. I've got some well-geared jobs, and I know my role just fine, but I can't abide this superiority complex that some people are getting. I've seen all too many times where people want others who are more skilled than themselves to make up for their own inadequacies.

If you want respect, you have to show respect. Sadly, it seems there's very little of that to go around these days.

---

QFT 10/char

I was reading a lot of hate about DF in this thread; on a positive note I beat garuda extreme in DF with a bunch of people who solo qued and had never beaten the fight before. The only one who had beat it was the tank who had never tanked it before. It took a few tries to work out the flaws but just goes to show you can get great groups in DF( as rare as they may be).IMO DF is not a " garunteed " fail ^.^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hitome

It seems like you've been kicked from a fair amount of parties and are using these forums to lash out at those who you think are guilty for kicking you.

---

http://i61.tinypic.com/2n7ns5.jpg

You are free to believe what you want to believe about me, I wont lose sleep over it. I really never join theses party anymore since I saw how mean people can be aka "oh you **** you should die of **** for being so sh**** healer" Thing is, these comment were not even directed at me. But what kind of loser tell another player to die of a sickness on a videogame, then kick the person and blacklist them for 2 fails in a video game? To me its alike throwing a stone in someone else window & run like a little coward.

What kind of loser put "1/2 fail = kick" or even worse "1/2 fail & you will be mocked then kicked" (which in that case is online bullying)? This is also what I am talking about.

Now maybe you don't like the way I voice my opinion and tbh thats fair, but it does not mean that the behavior we are talking about is fair as well.

Don't think you give me a reason to want to party with you either lol, as you seems to be quite ego-centric. But again thats my opinion after reading some of your post in threads where we both gave our 2 cents.

You asked if I had a complex 2-3 pages before, who's complexed? someone like me voicing his opinion against other(s) and all anytime or someone like you who seems to be quite ego-centric and who need to look down at someone to try to validate their own argument?

Party Finder is meant for people with similar intentions to run content together. If people want to farm content with hardcore elitists, then just let them.

This is why I just make my own PFs or just do DF. If you don't see any practice or casual parties then just make your own, I really don't see why this is such an issue. Let people play the game how they like to play the game.

i find this Party finders funny , i have a static (thanks god!) , and we killed extreme every week, and guess what? we still wipe from time to time to Titan, Twintania ,because mistakes/lag happens.

The last week our whm was having issues , he is a great player that never dies to anything , but he died x5 :D , he just had a bad day :D

2 weeks ago our tank got hit by some landslides :D, we laughed and keep going,hell i still die to some plumes if im distracted (lag,gf talking to me, phone ect), or bad position in rocks/landslide.

we know we can kill it so no problems dying sometimes, its frustrating wiping to a boss u have killed lots of times already? yes its, but we have 2 options :

-Rage > he sure wont do better after that , he will probably make more mistakes if he is nervous
-Laugh >the good way of course!

remember that we are talking about PLAYERS (humans!) and i dont know any human that doesnt make mistakes and is perfect 100% all the time.

This only works if you know the player, if you don't know if the player is really bad and unexperienced or he just have a really bad day then you can't take risks ( except if you want to try it for 10 H a day all the week )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gandora

snip snip

---

Can't talk about your experiences, but my experiences with PF on ragnarok have been always great. Even if the party break apart I never got into any name calling situation. Had some impatient folks, but nothing enough to make me wanna quit and come complain about it on the forums. And I'm talking about party Finder, not duty finder, being the later a cesspool. You're not forced join groups with set rules like "kick after 2 deaths", I myself stay away from those.

And a pro-tip for those complaining there isn't training parties on PF: you can start your own. It doesn't cost anything but time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenholt

Can't talk about your experiences, but my experiences with PF on ragnarok have been always great. Even if the party break apart I never got into any name calling situation. Had some impatient folks, but nothing enough to make me wanna quit and come complain about it on the forums. And I'm talking about party Finder, not duty finder, being the later a cesspool. You're not forced join groups with set rules like "kick after 2 deaths", I myself stay away from those.

And a pro-tip for those complaining there isn't training parties on PF: you can start your own. It doesn't cost anything but time.

---

I totaly agree with you for most of that, my only disagreement is the fact you use the word "complain", why when you try to raise awarness people see it as complain?


You know I'd not care much if only a little bit of people were doing it, but the problem is that it spread through the playerbase & now everyone do it, like if it was fashionable. And when you start seeing friends leaving the game because every days when they try to progress they encounter that mentality..

I myself totaly avoid these party but I love the game and when I see people trying to justify open discrimination (lets be honest its what it is) with such silly example "the one given by lololink with the drawing" I start to ask myself whats wrong with the playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlyx

remember that we are talking about PLAYERS (humans!) and i dont know any human that doesnt make mistakes and is perfect 100% all the time.

---

What was the answer to the whole post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lololink

This only works if you know the player, if you don't know if the player is really bad and unexperienced or he just have a really bad day then you can't take risks ( except if you want to try it for 10 H a day all the week )

---

I just want to ask, what stop you to take 20 more mins & communicate/make a good friend out of this? You're playing a MMO, keep calm & chill, make friends, learn from their mistake and help them to improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gandora

I totaly agree with you for most of that, my only disagreement is the fact you use the word "complain", why when you try to raise awarness people see it as complain?

---

...and exactly what are you trying to raise awareness to? Experienced players who don't want to or perhaps have the time to carry people using the PF as intended to form a party with specific rules conducive to that goal? If so, then not only am I (or anybody who plays the game really) aware of this but as a matter of fact I expected it. Furthermore, I am quite happy that when I pop open the PF I see a mix of learning parties and farm parties for various primals regularly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saziel

This amuses me in Party Finder. I'd love it if the person starting the party died twice, and followed their own rules and left the party.

---

If the group wipes twice, I'm out :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Experienced players who don't want to or perhaps have the time to carry people

---

http://i59.tinypic.com/2rr9xfo.jpg

Same players crying cause they have nothing else to do with their free time when they're capped on myth & done with their weekly kills.

Who tell you everyone want to be carried anyway?

It's a very toxic community, reason why one of my friends quit the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gandora

*obnoxiously large image*

Same players crying cause they have nothing else to do with their free time when they're capped on myth & done with their weekly kills.

Who tell you everyone want to be carried anyway?

---

You shouldn't be talking about crying. I don't need lessons on morality from an internet stranger.

Since you decided to make a modicum of a statement underneath that massive waste of space, I shall address it. I don't believe people are necessarily looking to be carried. I am fully open to have a player who is very much skilled or capable and ready in any way to join such a restricted party, even if they haven't had much experience in the fight itself.

If they are indeed so ready and capable, they will have no issues getting to the win along with the rest of the team and not dying repeatedly to mechanics.

The 2-3 death to kick parties are a wonderful compromise. It allows players who may not necessarily be too experienced, but are very confident in their skills, to join a farm party and potentially get the win. However, if their inexperience shows they get replaced. Plain and simple.

There are learning parties that attract people who want to spend time in a fight without worrying about said consequences.

There is literally nothing to complain about here. Unless you join a PF that turns out to be something other than what it claimed to be, there is no argument.

why is this still being discussed? wait... why is there even a discussion to begin with?

if you dont like the conditions in pf dont join, its as simple as that. pf you can recruit your own special elite or dream group w/e you want, "must show at least 3 ex primal weapons" "must have above x dps" w/e.

dont like it make your own or join another group. I joined an ifrit ex recently that had a prerequisite of cleared, we 1 shotted it, however someone got achievement unlocked and back to cs, so obviously that was his first clear, leader still blacklisted him since he felt lied to. If they want to blacklist you dont see a problem, ive seen a lot of cases where people dont meet the requirements and join, never seen people act harshly, sometimes just ended with a boot since people felt they were wasting peoples time. Usually the excuse is lag, and that is the case sometimes, however othertimes from doing the fight 100 times you can tell if someone has mastered the fight or not, i.e how quickly they adapt to phases, their positioning,etc. a lot of things just give away if someonce bluffing or not. You see it in the pf join someone elses group, people have the right to make niche groups and seek specific players.

We sure do have a flippin' fantastic community.

Way to set an example, guys. Really, bravo.

Being good at playing ff14 is on par with being good at picking out specific colors of smarties, someone deserves a pat on the head!