Coil mode for main story

I'm sorry for the doublepost, but I want to take a shot at explaining another aspect of the casual mentality to hardcores.

This perception of "you just want instant gratification" is confusing and insulting to some casuals, because they don't know what you mean. To you hardcores, attaining a level up is pretty meaningless, just one in fifty messages that amount to "I'm not playing the game I want to yet" until you reach 50 and can start the gear grind. To casuals, attaining a level is a main source of gratification. This is why they are confused by the endgame and your insinuations that they want something they shouldn't, because previous to the endgame, they received gratification fairly regularly. Sometimes multiple times per day.

To be told that now we have to wait several days or weeks between distinct gratifying events (getting new gear) is crazy to the people that aren't in this for the endgame.

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Originally Posted by Rhained

The story is on youtube, nothing is stopping you watching it.

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I think they main arguement why that does not work for some people is that...IT IS NOT THEIR CHARACTER in the cut scenes of the story line in those YT videos, for RPers/Casuals it's that they want to experience and see the story through their characters eyes and be standing in those cut scenes...simple as that.

I have read through most of this thread and some people from both camps have made very good and valid arguments and points, casuals want to see the story...that is all fine and good but please try and at least gear up a little, learn your class as best you can, that way when you get to actually see your character in those cut scenes you'r character will really look all epic and heroic.

As for me...and this is just speaking for myself, i consider myself casual/hardcore...i will gear up and learn my class as best i can before trying to progress and see the story line at my own pace, to make my point i just completed my relic quest last week, i'm taking my time...there is a lot to do in this game anyways, i'm patient and no need to rush, i think of it as my character growing and getting experience and gear ready to tackle and experience the harder stuff that comes her way. =P And yes it is great that they will make turn 1-5 easier, maybe i will wait till then or maybe i will try it as it is now in the next few weeks.

For now tho i think everyone that has replied to this thread has made good and valid points like i said...but now its just going back and forth with the same arguments, but it is nice to debate and talk about it as long as we keep it civil without resorting to personally attacking.

Advice to watch videos on youtube is one of the most stupid thing I have read hear. So, why not to give an advice "you need not to play the game at all- just watch youtube- it will save your money and time". Is it really so hard to understand, that we play (hardcore players and casual players) to gain SELF EXPERIENCE

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Advice to watch videos on youtube is one of the most stupid thing I have read hear. So, why not to give an advice "you need not to play the game at all- just watch youtube". Is it really so hard to understand, that we play (hardcore players and casual players) to gain SELF EXPERIENCE

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yup the whole youtube thing is really really stupid. That they (iwannabehardcorewahwah) cannot see it seems to tell much about them.

The only thing it tells is that they are in this game for their own reasons, which are different from a casual player's. Both are valid ways to enjoy a game, and I think both sides have to recognize it. The problem is that hardcore gamers see nothing wrong with the state of affairs, while the casual gamers do, so the hardcore gamers feel "attacked" because we want to change something about the game they're enjoying.

For the casual gamer, the endgame can be huge problem. They end up feeling like they were sold a bill of goods. They've been spending weeks, maybe even months, playing one game, then have the rug pulled out from under them and are told "learn to play" before they can see the rest of the story. "Learn to play? What have I been doing for half-a-hundred levels?! What game was I playing then if I suck so much?!" The answer is a completely different game.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Advice to watch videos on youtube is one of the most stupid thing I have read hear.

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Almost as stupid as "nerf content so I don't have to learn or improve to see it", right?

I wonder if half the people complaining about coil being too hard actually realise you got to get a relic first. Aka, beat Titan HM. Or are they all approaching Titan with a "Well I'll buy a run/my FC will carry me" attitude? If it's that, no wonder they want easier Coil, they simply don't want to put in effort into anything.

As for the guy saying "hardcores" don't know what MMOs are about, I don't know, but doesn't sound to me like you know what they're about either. Because it's also not about getting everything handed to you on a silver platter. And yes, MMOs involve challenges, they involve gearing up, they involve stuff you don't just beat without breaking a sweat on your first try. If you can't handle that I don't think you should be playing a MMO.

Lets face it. If you beat Titan HM legitimately for your Relic you should already have a lot of your DL. So for Coil all you have to do is get the last few pieces, which shouldn't take that long and voila you're ready for Coil! Not to mention Coil doesn't require anywhere near as much dodging as Titan. You have the ADS Laser and that's about it. Everything else in there is about knowing how to deal with the mechanics, not about how good your connection is.

So then we come to the next part. "omg, all the experienced players don't want me!" Then take part in that other thing MMOs have. You know, a community. Find people that DO take firsttimers. Find other firsttimers. Find linkshells for Coil. Form parties with them. Talk with them. Coordinate with them. Don't throw hissyfits because people are being "too hardcore" because they want to use VoIP. Make sure you know how to deal with encounters in Coil, form strategies based on your own party and suddenly Coil isn't all that hard.

You really don't need to be "supahhardc0rez" or in full i90 or something to at least do up to T4. Admittedly, T5 is a completely different beast, but come on, what would life be without challenges? I bet if the people complaining about Coil being so hard or that they can't find parties would spend half the effort they spend complaining on getting proper gear and finding other people in the same boat they'd actually would've gotten quite far in Coil already.

I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed. I will do the content when I'm ready. Already have 3 relics with their respective jobs in full dark light. Some people will never reach the point were they are comfortable doing it, nor will they find a group that beats twintania. Other games have a easy mode version which is what is being asked here. Not nerfing the only version there is.

Understand now? how asking someone to watch something they are playing for story (which is why you play every final fantasy game) on youtube is stupid?

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

As for the guy saying "hardcores" don't know what MMOs are about, I don't know, but doesn't sound to me like you know what they're about either. Because it's also not about getting everything handed to you on a silver platter. And yes, MMOs involve challenges, they involve gearing up, they involve stuff you don't just beat without breaking a sweat on your first try. If you can't handle that I don't think you should be playing a MMO.

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I sincerely hope you don't mean me, because that's not what I was saying at all. I was pointing out the different reasons why people come to the game. I was validating both hardcore and causal mindsets by acknowledging both exist, and I was trying to explain to both sides the reasons why the other comes to the game.

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

I sincerely hope you don't mean me, because that's not what I was saying at all. I was pointing out the different reasons why people come to the game. I was validating both hardcore and causal mindsets by acknowledging both exist, and I was trying to explain to both sides the reasons why the other comes to the game.

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Nah, I was referring to the guy with the bigass "QQ hardcorez suck" rant.

dude he is not hardcore, he hasn't done coils. Don't know why he is defending the "watch on youtube" crew. Maybe that's what he did?

I haven't done coils but will do titan hm on a regular basis, I prefer titan hm to wp to cap myth.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

By the way, talking about learning, how are people like "us" stupid/dumb/unskilled people supposed to learn & improve, since "you" hardcore/champions/godly/amazinglyskilled/ players refuse to team up with us and let us be amazed by your golden & divine knowledge? Its alway "OMG a 1st timer! I said EXP ONLY QQ /run away to change diapper/get mom cuddle."

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I just so knew this was going to be brought up. Yes the godly argument that people can only do Coil with experienced groups. Ah yes, finding other firsttimers is too much effort and stuff right?

Ah well, already adressed your argument before you could even bring it up lol, you guys are so predictable.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

Nah, I was referring to the guy with the bigass "QQ hardcorez suck" rant.

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Thanks for your contribution! You clearly state your level of intellect, as much as that guy I quoted 1-2 pages back then.

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

I just so knew this was going to be brought up. Yes the godly argument that people can only do Coil with experienced groups. Ah yes, finding other firsttimers is too much effort and stuff right?

Ah well, already adressed your argument before you could even bring it up lol, you guys are so predictable.

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you guys are too smart for us!

Sorry to disapoint you, but what I say is clearly what happen on a daily scale & it cannot be denied.

I don't think anything in this game is so difficult someone wouldn't be able to beat it eventually if they really wanted to and were willing to get better gear and more skill (I'm writing this as a person who has just started to work on turn 5 and haven't beaten it yet). And to me that's the point of games: they get gradually harder, always offering new levels of challenge after getting through the last one, always offering new goals and new feelings of achievement. If you just want to see the story but aren't willing to do anything to achieve that, go to Youtube and watch the cutscenes.

If you really want to beat Coil, get better and get together with others sharing your goal. You can do it.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

Sorry to disapoint you, but what I say is clearly what happen on a daily scale & it cannot be denied.

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And I'm also in 2 Coil Ls where nobody gives a rats ass about your experience and they simply want to get a full party, go in there and kick some ass.

I must be a wizard for finding those LS! Just like the 150 or something other people in there.

(Oh and yes, these PUGs do manage to clear some turns)

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Originally Posted by Freakiie

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I got a FC that goes to Coil, i'm on T2 & I got there with a PUG. Your progression or mine isn't a relevant topic at all.
This thread is to ask for an easy mode coil for people who feel like it, as much as I can PUG or whatever there is nothing wrong supporting this idea. If you cannot understand something that simple then yes you're clearly not a wizard lol.

an easy mode, not a nerf, you know something like Haukks normal & haukks hard, its the same thing kind of. I don't get why people who doesn't support that idea come in here to argue about something that wont change their daily progression.

No one has asked an easy mode with gear reward as much as I can recall.

Now my "rant" was about people who doesn't give two shit about other "casual" players who "may" need an easy mode to see the story only.

Theses players I pointed just care out of selfishness and thats all, they contest an idea "to potentialy make everyone happy" on a hand and refuse to share a spot with these players who want to do it just once for the storyline , tomorrow SE decide to pop an easy mode, ppl will QQ for 2 day & suck it up, why? nothing will have changed for you, for me or for them.

In the end if an easy mode was introduced, these players I pointed would have something to bitch and discriminate about but in the end of the day what would it change for you really?

While I can't fault anyone for wanting to see the story, think of it this way. If you mainly play the game for the story, and there was an easy mode for BC, then what is to keep you playing? I personally like always having that next story bit that you actually have to work towards. The story is the reward! People who want story (like myself) have to work for it, just like the people who want gear. I don't see a distinction between the two. When you finally clear that dungeon that you've been working towards and get that next bit of story, it's actually satisfying, rather than just going autopilot through and essentially just watching a movie.

The idea is to keep you playing. Ideally, they would never reduce the difficulty of content, because it will naturally get easier through gear.

@ Lukahn: Your point is totaly valid, but beating T-5 doesn't mean that you can stop playing. I'll keep doing random stuff once I beat it T-5+ same goes for the others I guess.

We/They may want to try a new job and enjoy it to the point of doing things to gear it up, eventualy want to learn its mechanics very well to try it out in harder BC.

I don't disagree with you at all tho.

Completing Coil in easy mode to know the story doest mean, that players will not have desire to complete Coil in normal (hard mode) to gain gear. Two modes can exist. Why not?

My experience in many other MMOs with people asking for an "Easy" Mode, with no loot, etc, just for the Story. You have the people, like the ones here, asking for it. Some, if not all of the posters legitimately would be ok with no loot, etc. But many more would not. It's similar to easy versions of raids and such in other games where you do get loot, the people wanted them, but since the gear is weaker, they're now upset and want the better stuff. The other issue is that SE is going to nerf the content at some point to allow more to do it. Why should they postpone other work just to make a separate Easy Mode, that may not be used by all that many people?

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Originally Posted by Lukahn

While I can't fault anyone for wanting to see the story, think of it this way. If you mainly play the game for the story, and there was an easy mode for BC, then what is to keep you playing? I personally like always having that next story bit that you actually have to work towards. The story is the reward! People who want story (like myself) have to work for it, just like the people who want gear. I don't see a distinction between the two. When you finally clear that dungeon that you've been working towards and get that next bit of story, it's actually satisfying, rather than just going autopilot through and essentially just watching a movie.

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I mentioned this earlier, but usually folks that are wrapped up in lore and story don't actually like to raid (if you truly like getting into lore and story, then you're one of the rare ones.. I know a few others but they're few and far between). It's not their environment, and not something they actually find enjoyable. So the story being the driving factor behind raiding doesn't work with most folks I've encountered. It's a different group of people and a completely different play style. Doesn't make it wrong or anything.

They aren't asking for the difficulty of actual Coil to be reduced, they're looking for a story mode. They don't want the gear, or achievements, just want to see their character in the story. Keep in mind, what is faceroll easy for you or I (and I'm not calling Coil that, my FC is still not past Turn 4), is extremely difficult for some others. Some people can try as much as they want and still won't be capable of downing a boss. While I learn my class almost instantly as I level, and then refine it through research, some people don't have the time to do that, or the ability to learn as quickly from what they look up. There was a thread about a Warrior on a Korean server in WoW posted here a while back that covered that exact thing. He was just a slow learner.

No, not everyone should have the best gear in the game. That's a reward for the most challenging fights. There are achievements for those as well that show you've downed the hardest content. I do not see any harm, however, in making a dungeon to see the story. Unless you're arguing we don't get enough exclusives as it is when completing top end raids by literally being the strongest characters in the game (best gear, and highly skilled).

I don't really care to be a part of some elitist group who thinks they're better than everyone, and should have everything end game exclusive to them. I want a reward for completing the most difficult content, and I realize most raiders want something to set them apart from others.. that's where the gear and achievements come in.

Edited to add: Also, completing the main story typically doesn't signal completion for the lore crowd. Usually they're leveling other characters to see stories from different points, or actually exploring the world to find neat little easter eggs and areas. FFXIV doesn't provide much of that.. but I have seen the lore folks stick with games (without raiding at all) for much longer than the raid crowd. I have a hard time believing seeing the rest of the main story would cause anyone to actually quit unless they were already bored of the game and that was truly the only goal they had left.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

Coil is endgame content story or not and at the END OF A GAME (for the moment) things are suppose to be HARD.

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Full disclosure, I have not reached endgame in any MMO yet, so this may not be a real issue. For me, I don't care how hard Coil is. What I may or may not have an issue with is the grind in order to challenge it. I am not looking forward to having to run through the same dungeons several times week after week after week just so I can attempt a hard dungeon.

I have no problem if the only thing keeping me from seeing Coil's story is my own skill. I do have a problem if it's massive amounts of tedious gear grinding. That is not fun to me, as it might be to others. It could be all in my head, maybe you can get your gear for Coil after only a week of grinding a few dungeons. But it doesn't sound like it.

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

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You could potentially get your gear within a week.. but it wouldn't be after just a "few" dungeons. Full set of Dark Light (we're not counting your relic weapon here) runs you a little over 3500 tomes of philosophy. You get 100 tomes per run. So approximately 35 runs for full Dark Light. You could have someone craft a HQ of the crafted sets and full meld it, but that can get spendy and still requires about the same number of philosophy tomes in the end, maybe a little less. Unless you buy the finished crafted piece anyway.. those usually go for a good chunk of cash (at least 800k least I looked, usually more around the 1mil or more mark). You'll also need your relic, so 900 more philosophy there.

If you're pugging it, going by shouts I've seen.. you'll probably need full DL and/or the HQ crafted and melded set to be allowed into the group at all. Some also require some pieces of mythology gear and a +1 relic, which if you're running WP or AK for the philosophy tomes, you hopefully have enough to get a piece or two there. The cost is around the same, but WP nets only 30 tomes of mythology, and AK nets 40 tomes. It also caps at 300 every week (up to 450 with 2.1).. so it'll take a minimum of a few weeks to be able to pug with groups requiring that stuff. Philo has no weekly cap.

Not trying to push it on you or say it doesn't require time, it definitely does. Just trying to give you an idea of just how much time it takes :)

Ok, a few things I want to talk about.

First: It doesn't always get easier through gear. Personal reaction time and hand-eye coordination are involved. If someone has reached the peak of their reaction time, and coordination, but still can't manage to consistently perform, then what are they to do? I know that I don't have the fastest reaction time, it takes me a very long time to figure out patterns and to reinforce my own patterns through muscle memory. It's a human limitation that I have. To tell me to 'just get better' or 'lol, learn to play' is not helpful. Gear might be able to save me occasionally, but it won't be able to carry me if I'm not reacting fast enough.

Second: Someone mentioned buying Titan hard mode runs, or letting the FC carry the player. I want to state that I do not expect, nor do I want, to be carried. I want to learn and I want support. This is why my husband usually comes as the whm for when I run new dungeons. He has a much faster reaction time than I do, is in the same room with me, and can support me when he knows I'm overwhelmed. That's the only kind of 'carrying' I want, support from a more skilled player. Personally, I think it's wrong to buy Titan runs or any other runs. It encourages people to not learn their job.

Third: Yeah, the 'learn your job' crowd. What do you think we're doing for 50 levels? Just hitting 1,1,1,1 or whatever lights up? No, most people that are 'casual' players but want to enjoy the game are trying to learn their job. I read threads here, read articles at other sites, watch dungeon videos for boss mechanics, and I try to learn my job as well as I can without spoiling the story. I'm just not very fast at it.

I'm a great book-learner, I love to learn new things. I have difficulties with muscle memory, coordination and pattern recognition. I know that I have these weaknesses, that's why I try to pick and choose my video games wisely. I'm looking for challenges, but challenges that are still within the upper limits of my skills.

FFXIV 1.0 fit perfectly into my standards for video games. Then came 1.23, and it was still within my limits, so I was happy. I got sucked into the fantastic story they spun, which is a highlight of final fantasy games. Then 2.0 came around and the game was just a bit too fast paced for me. Just a bit. And I've only made it up to Stone Vigil in the main storyline. I managed to finish that on my first try, but again, I had my husband there to prop me up when I needed just that little bit of support. In fact, the final boss had just a sliver of health when I died, the other dps's died, and my husband managed the kill with a Stone 2. Was I carried through that dungeon? No. But I was supported.

Do I want to be carried through content? No, I just want a little support when I reach the limits of my skill level.
Do I want an easy mode Coil? Yes! An honest evaluation of my playing skill means that I will have a hard time beating Coil.
Do I want ANY rewards for an easy mode Coil? NO! If it's easy mode, I didn't do anything that deserves a reward.
Would an easy mode Coil with no rewards affect anyone else? Uh, I can't see how it would, and I don't understand why so many people are against it.

Think about it, an easy mode coil could even serve as a training ground for the hard mode. Then you'll have a pool of players that only require some support from you to make it through hard mode instead of being carried. Will they NOT want to play hard mode since they've already seen the story? I doubt it, they'll feel more prepared and confident and WANT to try the harder challenge, without feeling like they're dragging down a party, and without feeling like a failure if the party fails.

tl;dr - I don't want to buy a win or be carried on anything - What makes you think I'm not learning my job or gearing my character? - Everyone has a limit to their skill in video games and may not be ABLE to reach the level required to beat Coil - How does an easy mode without rewards affect you?

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

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Sorry sir but that's how mmorpgs work. Usually they have more options than on here to get gear but it still has some sort of grindy feeling to it. Not to mention Crystal Tower was suppose to help people get sorta geared for Coil I believe. But in general, that's how mmos work. Asking for a nerf or easy mode because you don't want to gear up for it is absurd.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

Personal reaction time and hand-eye coordination are involved. If someone has reached the peak of their reaction time, and coordination, but still can't manage to consistently perform, then what are they to do?

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Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg. Not everyone can be "winners" somethings people just aren't good at. It's life. It's a lot of things that I know I'm not good at, at all. But I wouldn't attempt to do it knowing I'm not good at it, fail at it, and then ask it to be made easier for me. I would keep trying. Then if it's something I just simply can not do. I would move on too something else.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg. Not everyone can be "winners" somethings people just aren't good at. It's life. It's a lot of things that I know I'm not good at, at all. But I wouldn't attempt to do it knowing I'm not good at it, fail at it, and then ask it to be made easier for me. I would keep trying. Then if it's something I just simply can not do. I would move on too something else.

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I'll state this again so it is clear to everyone: If FFXIV was initially released as it is now, I would NOT have played it.

I think you keep missing the following point: 1.0 and 1.23 were perfect for me. SE roped me in to their story and I want to see the rest of it. That's why I am asking for an easy or story mode.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

Sorry sir but that's how mmorpgs work.

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Except that's how it works... only for the endgame. For levels 1-50, I've been having non-grindy fun, experiencing a story and exploring the world of Eorzea and enjoying every minute of my time there. To expect me to suddenly switch play styles to a grind-fest is to expect me to play a completely different game than I've been playing for 2 months. I realize there needs to be the grind to keep the long-term investors like yourself interested in the game. But to me, the grindfest is just a Skinner box. Skinner boxes are uninteresting.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

Then this isn't the game for them? I mean the GCD on here is the longest I've seen in any mmorpg.

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GCD doesn't really have anything to do with reaction time and hand-eye coordination during boss fights. I believe Tryst is speaking about getting out of boss AOEs and the like, dodging mechanics.

Anyway.. you failed to give a reason a story mode dungeon couldn't be introduced. Other than saying it makes it "easier" for someone, when in fact if someone isn't as skilled, it will likely be just as difficult for them to complete an easier version of the raid as it is for a skilled person to beat the harder version. So the difficulty is more tuned to the individual. Unless you think the story, gear, and achievements should all just be reserved for the folks that beat the hardest content. I personally don't think story falls into that category, as usually the crowd following the story is not the same crowd that hardcore raids. Two totally different audiences, playing the game for entirely different reasons, and with completely different views on what is fun. Shouldn't really be locking content that is the main appeal for the non-raid crowd, behind a raid wall.

This isn't asking for the same level gear, or the achievements.. it's only asking to be able to be immersed in the story, and be able to see it.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

Just trying to give you an idea of just how much time it takes :)

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Thank you Sunarie, I appreciate the summary :) Although I don't know what all of it meant, I probably will in time. >_>;

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

Thank you Sunarie, I appreciate the summary :) Although I don't know what all of it meant, I probably will in time. >_>;

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Not a problem. It basically means you're running one of four dungeons (or three, I don't think people really run Prae outside of the story) 45ish times total to get full DL plus a relic weapon that you'd need to do Coil. If you're also going for the mythology pieces, you're limited to two dungeons. The quickest runs take about 10 minutes, that is if you're speed running.

Edited to add: I really hate the crowd that likes to tell people how they should play an MMO. The greatest thing about the genre is it's potential, and ability, to attract a number of different types of players. I have always been amazed at the number of ways people find to enjoy the games, and hate seeing it reduced to "if you don't play x way, you shouldn't be playing this MMO".. since when was it their job to decide that, or decide what an MMO should mean, or play like, or appeal to. /endrant

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

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This isn't 1.0 or 1.23. This is 2.0 things have changed. I understand the old version was slower but this isn't that version anymore. Either get better or YouTube it. So what you're character isn't in there, if the story is that enticing where you attempted to play with this "fast" combat then another character in there shouldn't be a problem at all.

Beggars can't be choosers.

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Originally Posted by Sunarie

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She or he didn't specify and hand eye coordination does come into play with pressing buttons or clicking buttons as well. Not to mention you still get a warning and time to move out of the circles. Other games it just hits no warning. So it's still easy. The story and the content all goes hand in hand. If you can't beat the content you can't finish the story. Have none of you ever played games before? Lol Next time I get stuck on a part in a game I'm going to write the producer and tell them how my hand eye coordination is bad and that they need to make it easier so I can finish the story.

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

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So why are you doing it? Like I said not wanting to gear for it and then asking for it to be handed to you is absurd.

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Originally Posted by AvonRekaes

Thank you Sunarie, I appreciate the summary :) Although I don't know what all of it meant, I probably will in time. >_>;

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Yeah, it can be very grindy. That's why I'm not all that interested in getting the gear quickly. I plan to take the multiple dungeon runs one at a time, on days when I have time for a run. I also plan to use the upcoming duty roulette to get tomestones. I figure it will do a couple of things: Give newer players a tank for the run (me), give me practice that *may* help my reaction time, and keep me interested with a variety of content.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

This isn't 1.0 or 1.23. This is 2.0 things have changed. I understand the old version was slower but this isn't that version anymore. Either get better or YouTube it. So what you're character isn't in there, if the story is that enticing where you attempted to play with this "fast" combat then another character in there shouldn't be a problem at all.

Beggars can't be choosers.

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Why so antagonistic? Also, you as well as many others have failed to provide a real reason for why a story mode (without rewards/achievements) would not work.

We've been told that it's just the way it is. We've been told that we shouldn't be handed anything (negated by the 'no rewards' we keep stating). We've been told to watch a crappy Youtube upload of it (with the main character most likely a Miquote). We've been told not to play the game. We've been told that we need to learn to play. We've been told that gear will let us pass through coil. We've been told to just wait until it's nerfed (which could be as early as 4 months, or as long as 12 or more).

But no one (unless I've missed the post) has given a real, concrete reason as to why a story mode without rewards should NOT be included in the game.

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Originally Posted by Faedden

She or he didn't specify and hand eye coordination does come into play with pressing buttons or clicking buttons as well. Not to mention you still get a warning and time to move out of the circles. Other games it just hits no warning. So it's still easy. The story and the content all goes hand in hand. If you can't beat the content you can't finish the story. Have none of you ever played games before?

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In other games, you also don't get hit by AOEs when you get out of the circle on time. In other games, they don't tie the story strictly to raid content. In other games, the world is filled with lore, and ways to unlock said lore without raiding. In other games there is always a warning to move. It may not be a red circle, but the warning is still there. In other games the reaction time needed is quicker in some cases and slower in others. In other games they do have a hard and an easy mode for dungeons. I could fire that "have you played other games" comment, right back at you. I would also ask if you have ever played with people that have a different mindset than you as far as what the game is for, and what goals are. Not everyone -wants- to raid.. and as I keep repeating, which you've failed to even address, the story is generally considered, and sought after, by the non-raid crowd. So why lock that behind a raid wall?

I am really failing to see the point you're trying to make here :/

As a side note, the guy you quoted saying he wanted gear to be handed to him.. you have it wrong. He flat out doesn't care about the gear..as in, doesn't want to get it. That is a playstyle for some people.. gear isn't a motivator, and they don't care to get it. MMOs are -not- just about the grind.. they certainly are for some people.. but not for everyone. Quit trying to force people to play your way, and have your goals.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

But no one (unless I've missed the post) has given a real, concrete reason as to why a story mode without rewards should NOT be included in the game.

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Because then people like you would have no motivation to participate in the end game content to see the story.

If you really care about the story so badly, then complete coil. If coil is currently to hard for you to complete, then wait until more content and gear options come out to make it easier for you.

If the story is what is keeping you invested into the game, then it would be in SE's best interest to drag on that story as much as possible to prevent you from finishing it easily and quitting.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Seriously man? SERIOUSLY? Did you play XI? That had the hardest most rediculous content for the main story, the fact that a fresh 50 with garbage gear can even do the main story is already easy enough. You ever play a game where when you beat it on the hardest difficulty you get some extra cutscenes at the end that sort of adds to the story? Well that is coil.

I for one enjoy that you have to actually put in some effort to save the world and actually earn the title of Hero.

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agree wholeheartedly.

i haven't even read up on coil and when I do it, i will be fresh and have no idea what is going on... I want to earn what I see, I want to challenge myself and the fights/dungeon/story/loot are the reward for putting the time in etc etc.

also, props to the XI story mode mention, took me YEARS to finish. I finished ARR story in 2 months, not playing every day.

It's not altogether surprising that HC endgamers don't want this to be an option for players other than themselves.

The mentality that makes these players want to spitefully keep story content that they have no interest in from those that do is the same mentality that keeps them grinding for better gear and bragging rights week in and week out. I would actually probably enjoy the challenge and learning curve of endgame, but I would never be able to suffer the egotistical and obnoxious behaviour of the 80% of players that make up that side of the game.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

I'll state this again so it is clear to everyone: If FFXIV was initially released as it is now, I would NOT have played it.

I think you keep missing the following point: 1.0 and 1.23 were perfect for me. SE roped me in to their story and I want to see the rest of it. That's why I am asking for an easy or story mode.

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That is a very specific situation you are describing, and I think that you've got to realize that there aren't many people in your exact boat. SE isn't going to create content just for one or a few people. That being said, there are bound to be some people that will take you along and start wittling away end game content. Even if you are lacking in reflexes, repetition is a good teacher. Hell, I'd take you along.

I know that it's been stated several times that these dungeons will be made easier as new content is released. There is your easy mode right there. So you are in fact, getting exactly what you want. You've just got a wait a bit. I think everyone on the whole board has some feature they are waiting on, so in that, you are just like the rest of us :)

lol when ever I see ppl say "go to youtube and watch" I always get the feeling they say so you can watch their videos and make them feel like bad asses when they aren't. XD

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Originally Posted by Faedden

So why are you doing it? Like I said not wanting to gear for it and then asking for it to be handed to you is absurd.

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So I can fight Titan as he appears in the story, and that's fine, and has no impact on people grinding HM Titan for relic weapons, but wanting to explore and experience the Coil of Bahamut for myself in the story is not fine, although a "story mode" would also have no impact on people grinding "real mode" Coil for awesomephatlewtz.

Also, who said anything about being handed to me? Did I not say, explicitly, that I don't mind a hard dungeon? I just mind being told "you cannot play this unless you go through pointless tedium for several weeks". What's absurd to you isn't absurd to me. Frankly that you enjoy the gear grind is absurd to me, but I recognize it is a valid gaming experience you enjoy. How bout a little mutual understanding?