Concerns about the PvP and why it might not succeed, though I want it to very much!

Although I will play in PvP regardless, I really don't think participation should be anonymous. Even MOBAs let you see your opponent's names, I don't see why this is a big deal. Hiding the names makes things more impersonal.

That said, if you're going to mask our names, couldn't you come up with something a little better than "Fresh Meat" ?

In order to aid communication and targeting, I had proposed a suggested solution to this earlier:

Change the names from the current "Fresh Meat" to

Mysterious Paladin
Mysterious Summoner
Mysterious Bard
...etc.

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If harrassment happens in FF11 community because of ballista, under current condition of FF14 community, it is a smart decision. People are just not mature enough.

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Even in Ballista's heyday, abuse was pretty much limited to people raging about being repeatedly targeted for whatever reason. I've never heard of anyone "harassing" eachother over a PvP session in XI (and I was an avid player of it back in the day)

Wait, what? They're hiding the names of players in PVP? I just... I don't even... SE, what?

http://theskippyreview.files.wordpre...pg?w=300&h=240

I can't believe people are actually defending that "Fresh Meat" crap.

There is no sane reason why names should be hidden in PVP, I'm sorry. Might aswell make names anonymous in the dungeon finder too, same thing.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

I can't believe people are actually defending that "Fresh Meat" crap.

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Is anyone defending it? I don't see it.

I did propose a "well, if they won't ever do this, could they at least do <other thing> so it wouldn't suck so bad?" solution. If they insist on anonymity, anything but "fresh meat" please. But i'd prefer not to have names hidden.

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Originally Posted by Durthane

You realize you're calling men who practice good sportsmanship "little girls" right? In my experience the folks who act as you suggest are either insecure or little boys.

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Originally Posted by Pooky

Just reading the tone and comments of some of the people in this thread who are against the "fresh meat" thing makes me realize that SE has made the right decision. When I see phrases like "can't handle the competition" or "get butthurt too easily" as the reasons for wanting to see character names, its obvious why SE doesn't want to give you guys harrasment tools. You guys are coming across like elitist, insufferable douches.

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My goodness, where are our manners? Please excuse our most egregious indiscretions and callous disregard for the tender feeling of our bretheren. Hence forth we shall strive to maintain complete civility whilst attempting to massacre each other in the den of wolves.



Why is it that non-pvpers always feel compelled to enter threads about pvp and vocalize their disdain for the entire pvp subculture? Pvpers are under no illusions regarding the popularity of aggressive competition in online games. Most MMO's are lucky to get 20% of the population to engage in any form of pvp at their peak.

I don't know what you think you are accomplishing by scolding players who enjoy heated competition and name recognition but I can assure you that the impact of petty jabs like, "insecure, or little boys" or "elitist, insufferable douches" is a tiny fraction of what you intend. Combating thick-skinned players by throwing insults is not exactly a smart strategy. Name calling and anger are ubiquitous among all serious competitive activities. In fact, their presence (or lack thereof) is what separates recreational activities from competitive ones. If at the end of the game the winners aren't ecstatic and the losers aren't pissed, the game is too boring to hold anyone's attention for more than a few minutes.





We get it. You don't like culture that comes with the territory. Great, you don't have to queue for arenas. Non-participation is perfectly acceptable and is actually expected for the bulk of players. I don't understand why you try to ruin it for the people who do enjoy it though. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Don't try to get them to blast the AC on the off chance that you have to walk through it for a few seconds.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Players participate in the Wolves' Den via the Duty Finder, so everyone has the option to jump in solo or join with a party of 4 players and match up with anonymous opponents from across servers. This is your opportunity to test your ability and see how you fair against a variety of skilled players. While we're aware some of you don't like the use of an anonymous name like Fresh Meat,

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To be honest I don't see the point of having the name of "Fresh Meat" if at the end of the battle it tells you exactly what their names were and jobs... and also their server...

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Players participate in the Wolves' Den via the Duty Finder, so everyone has the option to jump in solo or join with a party of 4 players and match up with anonymous opponents from across servers.

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Is room for 8 players vs 8 players can be implemented for patch 2.1a or 2.1b?

Worst decision ever.
Rivalry is one of the driven factors in PVP. How can you have rivals when you can't recognize them in combat? This is the sadest thing.

Also, I Lol'ed at the "harrassment" replies. I really can't take any of it serious; just the same as I don't take those who "harrass" or "troll" in online games.
This happens in PVE and every other content the game has to throw at you. For those cheering for this silly move by Squeenix, please scroll down and read the ESRB rating; then read what it says below it about online interactions.
It means anything goes and you should be ready for it.

i would like to have an option whether or not i would want to hide my name. bragging rights yo! whats the point of being good in pvp if no one knows who you are. this is just a bad call

This actually makes me happy. I don't want to know who I'm PvPing against, and I also don't want to be known.

We should at least get an option... I am also a ballista player who took part in the Ballista Royal, Remora's Man Slayers. And I saw little in the way of player harassment. This is really demoralizing for me. Without an option implemented I would not recommend this game to my friends.

As for server lag, I'm not worried, after all xi was ps2 and Ballista was just fine in my book. Loved it, and we had names....

Also this was not an issue for other mmo's dcuo or wow.... Come on lets have alitte faith in the community.

I, for one, LOVE the name "Fresh Meat", it's friggin' hilarious.

But... Sorry, I wouldn't fight for it. I don't care about having "proper" names or not. At least, "Fresh Meat" gives a bit of slapstick comedy tone to PvP. A MUCH welcome detail.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Hello all
Snip
There were a few clarifications on PvP mentioned during the Letter from the Producer LIVE at Tokyo Game Show[/URL]:

Q. Exactly what will PvP-specific skills entail?
A. There will be abilities you can use to immediately recover from sleep, bind, or other enfeeblement effects cast on you, and also passive traits that will reduce the duration of sleep effects. We will also expand these skills moving forward, as they can be used during the Front Lines PvP planned for the future.

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The fact that you can even use sleep in the first place Is A Fail In My Book.
i like PVP but i dont respect cheap tactics that developers allow in PVP games, let alone the people who are willing to use them!
Its all good to have abilitys to remove them but no... thats not how its done, you dont allow cheap tactics to be added in there in the first place, its just sad.

^^ Not ammused, it could be great, but atm its just... FAIL, NO, NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bind on the other hand isnt bad since you unbind after 1 attack + ranged & mages can still cast while under bind & tanks can use def abilitys, So not a cheap tactic/ability.

As for as those abilitys go for PVE perfectly fine, its a game!
But PVP its like 2 men holding you down while a 3rd punches your face in, not acceptable.

Well they are only offering Gay-Rena. What a cop out for a huge company to offer. They already have a history with the 3 companies that could be fractured at any time. I purchased this game with a good 3 way fight in a pvp zone (similar to a DAoC pvp zone or Molvik battlegrounds) setup in mind when I read about there being 3 Grand Companies.. Instead Arena /sigh. Thanks for allowing me the 1 month for the title but I wont pay for a game that "might" have something I may be interested in down the road. Have fun all and good luck on not having to go FTP.

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Originally Posted by Hobo

The best decision would have been to give each player their own privacy settings. That way, people who can't handle competition can hide behind their anonymity.

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Competition and harassment are two completely different things. Two people can compete with one another and still be civil, respectful and mature. There is absolutely no reason to harass another person because he was unable to best you in competition, nor if he bested you.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

The fact that you can even use sleep in the first place Is A Fail In My Book.
i like PVP but i dont respect cheap tactics that developers allow in PVP games, let alone the people who are willing to use them!
Its all good to have abilitys to remove them but no... thats not how its done, you dont allow cheap tactics to be added in there in the first place, its just sad.

^^ Not ammused, it could be great, but atm its just... FAIL, NO, NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bind on the other hand isnt bad since you unbind after 1 attack + ranged & mages can still cast while under bind & tanks can use def abilitys, So not a cheap tactic/ability.

As for as those abilitys go for PVE perfectly fine, its a game!
But PVP its like 2 men holding you down while a 3rd punches your face in, not acceptable.

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You have clearly never actually done PvP in an MMO or have any idea of how it works.

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Originally Posted by Cymoril

Well they are only offering Gay-Rena. What a cop out for a huge company to offer. They already have a history with the 3 companies that could be fractured at any time. I purchased this game with a good 3 way fight in a pvp zone (similar to a DAoC pvp zone or Molvik battlegrounds) setup in mind when I read about there being 3 Grand Companies.. Instead Arena /sigh. Thanks for allowing me the 1 month for the title but I wont pay for a game that "might" have something I may be interested in down the road. Have fun all and good luck on not having to go FTP.

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What made you think they would have the PvP zone done any time soon? Pretty sure they announced several months before launch that the first PvP format would be arena. So many reading comprehension issues around here...

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Originally Posted by civilpaw

Competition and harassment are two completely different things. Two people can compete with one another and still be civil, respectful and mature. There is absolutely no reason to harass another person because he was unable to best you in competition, nor if he bested you.

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I agree with you

when I pvp and I have in all the mmo's I have played I want to know who I am fighting I want them to know who I am, that is normal for pvp. this is beyond stupid any self respecting pvp player will find this offensive and down right sad. beyond that so now what do you do when player "fresh meat" is teleporting around ? oh wait guess they did not think about exploits in pvp cause that has never happened in EVERY mmo ever. why don't they just have us run slap ballons at each other if they are that worried about pvp players being that pathetic they can not take a loss.

Meh. PvP isn't THAT important to me so....I don't really care what they do about the name crap.

it seems some people don't know just how bad the harassment can get over pvp. It's not just the things people say during the match
It's the people that will follow you around and repeatedly make alts on your server just to keep whispering that you should kill yourself for days on end. There are a lot of people that are just plain cruel evil creatures and in this case S-E is aware of this and trying to stop it before it starts even if "fresh meat" is a questionable mask


Just one of the many stories i remember leading up to a reasoning like this was a guy from WoW and one of his friends bought an account on alliance side so they could pick out a random person that just made it out of protected areas, like just entering duskwood was their example, then they would use their alliance account to monitor his activity and location and just repeatedly gank him 24/7 with the explicit goal of making him so frustrated and upset that he would quit the game forever.
Once they got banned for this they made forum posts to the tune of "what did we do wrong we're just having fun?" as though what they were doing was totally normal behavior

Or people that spend days or weeks tormenting someone trying to elicit a response like "i'll kill you!" so they can report it to the police and get the person arrested irl

There are just really sick people out there and just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean there aren't others vulnerable to attacks like that and need to be protected.

I can't even imagine the mindset of people that will dedicate weeks of their own life to the goal of ruining the life of someone they don't even know. People like that belong in a sanitarium yet for some reason it seems like more and more keep appearing as time goes on


that being said, "fresh meat" is a pretty odd choice when something as simple as "Paladin" "Warrior" "Summoner" would have worked just as well and they still have the individuality of their character looks and gear and everything just a name mask so the sickos can't get to them as easily.
and honestly I don't expect arena to amount to much more than a testing ground towards trying to make future pvp events more enjoyable

I find it puzzling that there are people who seem to actually support the choice of "Fresh Meat" for the anonymized names over, well, just about anything else

Fresh Meat reminds me of The Butcher in Diablo 1 when you find his room, you open the door, and he comes bustin out the door fuckin fast as all hell and yells FRESH MEAT, and just starts hackin your face and you die....then you just pause for a minute and your like....WTF. this is the beginning of the dam game and it seriously just threw a boss at me that strong that i need to lvl up A LOT more to kill it?

Did they say whether it would be possible to speak/say during the PvP? You could just as easily come out and say, "This is So and So from the server Blah. Come at me bro." There's your choice and preference right there of being anonymous or not.

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Originally Posted by Nenin

Stuff

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I enjoy PVP myself, never got into it in FFXI though. But your defense of antisocial behavior as if it's what makes or breaks PVP is kinda silly don't ya think? Yes a losing team might be mad if they lose, but not at the other team for out playing them. The winners should feel ecstatic, because they have proven their excellence at their chosen hobby. Not because they have shamed another group. I understand the feeling of superiority and dominance are natural but as rational adults we are supposed to at the very least keep them to ourselves.

As to "Fresh meat" the name alone is silly and the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. It takes out any sense of community from PVP. Though, hardcore PVPers really have brought this on themselves, SE wants as many people as possible to enjoy their game and they aren't likely to allow them to alienate a much larger number of paying customers just so they can get their egos boosted by harming others self worth.

Personally, a little trash talk doesn't bother me. The ones engaging in it only diminish themselves. But, not everyone is thick skinned and they pay to play this game the same as anyone. It would be best if they where able to choose to hide their name rather than force it upon everyone, but then there would be the likes of you telling them they aren't "real" pvpers because they don't want to engage in pointless insult slinging.

I will be seeing you in the Wolves Den, though I guess you'll never know it. ^^

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Originally Posted by Kaizer

Did they say whether it would be possible to speak/say during the PvP? You could just as easily come out and say, "This is So and So from the server Blah. Come at me bro." There's your choice and preference right there of being anonymous or not.

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dude we cant even send tells to our friends ina dungeon. Wht makes you think they are gonna let us talk to the other team? you smoke crack too much

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The fact that you can even use sleep in the first place Is A Fail In My Book.

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Every PvP MMO and MOBA and competitive game has crowd control. Part of the strategy is knowing when to use CC, when to break out of it, and anticipating its use by the enemy.

It's not "fail." It's strategy, and it's counterable. BLM would be pretty weak with no crowd control, and yet it would be OP if there was no emergency mitigation. You obviously don't have experience with competitive games or MMO PvP. Sleep and other crowd control isn't a "cheap tactic."

Anyway... the issue people are having with the current situation is that SE is preemptively trying to prevent something that's not guaranteed to be an issue, and letting a likely few dampen the experience for the majority.

you guys got it all backwards. People who lose dont attack other players that beat them. Its assholes in Mor Dhona who are gonna point fingers at so and so because they suck at PvP. You see the same thing when someones attacking someone in chat because they cant down Titan HM, instead now you will just have players attacking other players in chat who suck at PvP, and it just causes major chat drama, and animosity that may effect a person getting invited to even something as simple as a dungeon run. "Hey man should we invite him?" "No dude thats the faggot who sucks at PvP" thats how it works in real MMO pvp. IDK wtf retarded pvp you were doing that the losing team would be attacking players in chat cuz that doesnt really make sense, cuz...well....they lost so what do they have to prove?

"Fresh meat" is utter nonesense...

i still think we should have a choice of whether or not we want to remain anonymous. not really all that hard to implement i believe.

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

Seriously this is one of the reasons why I will never PVP in this game.... SE's already taking the FFXI rout with PVP. This^^ is just beyond stupid, if people want to be cry babies and turn there names off let them but stop stepping on the feet of players who are over the age of 10 and can actually handle w/e comes there way grief wise. I'm not gonna go QQing to a GM because dem feel's got hurt and someone said I was bad... grow up or gtfo.

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You're not gonna PvP because you can't see a players name? That is just childish and against the entire concept of PvP. It's about beating your opponent and you don't need a name to do that. If anything, it makes PvP even more difficult because you won't be able to obtain any knowledge of the opponent before combat. If it's that big of a deal to know how skilled the person you just beat is then SE could display something like the win/loss ratio of the other player.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, if I remember correctly from the beta, you could see the names and servers of the players you fought against/with in the post-battle stats.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the whole anonymous thing? Unless it's supposed to simply stop harassment in battle...?

Of course that could have been easily removed but I haven't seen any mention of it.

Being called fresh meat wont stop someone from shouting or saying youre a bad player. The only thing it truly hinders is, becoming a known pvper, making friends with the other team, recognizing strategies based on your opponent, knowing who is the strongest competition, and any sense of competitive community.

People will harass you no matter what your name is. That is the nature of the anger that gets built up overtime. Most of us PvPers are used to these people and can handle ourselves without being babysat. If you cant handle a little trash talk on the net, Its probably not the best idea to join something that gets heated between players without saying a word.

Only difference with names is we know exactly who the respectful players are and who arent. A system like this does not fix the problem. It furthers it by giving anonymity. Now you will just have to assume everyone has a bad attitude instead of easily finding those who do not.

As someone who probably won't even be doing pvp, to me it's just another "if you can't take the heat..." sort of deal.

i love the precautions Square enix is taking to filter out those toxic players hopefully it will be a big turn off for their E-peen generator and will move on to the next mmo asap ^^

Personally I'm not big on PVP but I don't understand why they don't just make it so an Open World PVP is possible via a simple REQUEST feature.

Just as two people must agree upon a request to, say, join a party, join a duty, or accept a trade (ect)..

This would cut down on harassment entirely.

Scenario:
Player A walks up to Player 1,
Player A requests a PVP match with Player 1!
Player A /psychs Player 1 up!!
Player 1 /smiles and accepts the PVP request.
Player A and Player 1 have a friendly spar. ^^

Because whilst sparring is nice it's relatively dull in comparison to team games. Also i'd imagine some people don't want to get spammed for PvP. I'd rather go to a specific area and indicate that I'm up for getting my butt kicked in an arena for a while. 4v4 and 8v8 could be fun and the realm v realm stuff later looks better.

I dunno why no one else is freaking over the cross-realm PvP...FFXI pvp was only fun because you can fight with your friends everyday over years, but also go against them. The PvP system in ffxi was horrible, the only reason people did it was fight against their friends/rivals on their OWN Server. Especially with this meat system on cross-realm added, I agree it will feel lifeless and boring.

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

Seriously this is one of the reasons why I will never PVP in this game

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Take care, have fun in WoW~

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Originally Posted by VahnValbosce

Take care, have fun in WoW~

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Not sure what class he is playing, better not be a Paladin, because the infamous Paladin hater Furor is taking over Ghostcrawler. :mad: