What happened to players?

i like this thread. everyone with common sense and courtesy towards others are right.

You are dealing with a community that has a high percentage of social recluses. People who have learned there social mannerisms from youtube and 4chan. Dont expect much. Everyone carries there own burdens too, maybe he has beening deal withh is own family issues that they dont listen to him or trust and when you rejected his website it took it personally.

erase duty finder

make people "form their own party" to enter dungeon

release player killing (PK) feature, both in world map and inside dungeon (wat...)

player who died will drop one of their equipment

teach these new bastards how hard and harsh old school mmo's used to be

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Originally Posted by AccountBanned

Now, people in duty finders are absolutely rude and act like they've played this game for 15 years and if you're not doing things a certain way then you should just log off the game.

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You answered your own question. What happened to players?

15 years happened.

Back in EQ1 & FFXI, many people were probably still on dial-up internet. Google and its immense database were not as widespread. If you needed help, you asked fellow players in game.

15 years did happen. People do believe they are indeed "veterans" in MMOs. They know what to expect. They know the progression of things. They know what AH is, what RMT is, what end-game is.

Coupled with that, MMO system has changed, & duty finder is another new thing. It being cross-server, you won't see anyone else ever again, so I am guilty because I didn't talk, and neither did the others.

I have gotten used to it now. Not just in FF14, but also in GW2, TERA, SWTOR.

But it doesn't mean I don't miss the good old days, because I do. I wish I could go back and experience it again.

What happened to players? Well, I personally got older, more experienced and eventually... jaded as hell and elitist down to the core.

You stand in something that kills you? Ok, now you know what it does so you don't do it again. I'm cool with that. But why would you stand in it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again? It still kills you or damages you like it did the thousand times before. Now the healer has to compensate for your lack of... whatever. I personally can't tolerate other people repeating the same mistakes, at all.

I've only played instanced MMOs where a small party works together to achieve a common goal in a closed envinronment (as in, I'm "cancer from WoW"). I'm a tank, fairly competent one at that. I can carry 99.9% of the groups trough the instances with the healer, no matter how much the dps slacks or fucks up, unless it has dps checks. Seeing "that guy", once again making things harder for everyone gets old, very fast.

Then there are the people who come in undergeared and make the run last 2xlonger or impossible to complete. Just because they want the better gear from the harder instance sooner.

So maybe the instances are at fault? They might be a faulty concept for people who like nice things and cookies, but I like them. I don't really see how you could fit a server population of over 1000 anywhere without instances. Not with today's graphics. It's an easy solution to allow bigger server populations. More the merrier.

What happened to people? Games became different: MMOs started to demand more than just time. MMOs also got bigger, a lot bigger and more popular. Playing games with small populations might be an answer. But on the other hand, will a game that has small population be any good? MMOs require a huge investment of time and money to be good. Keeping people hooked using an instance based lootwhoring is the easiest way to keep people subscribed to an MMO. It's also the easiest kind of MMO to make. It's like a drug, you need your fix (that one item!)

duty finder makes getting group too easy . if you get bad group , get another .

back in the day you put in a bit of work to get a group going so you were more tolerant of silly mistakes .

I was fighting Chimera as tank and the healer died and said "you had boss too close to me I couldn't run away "

I mean seriously the healer blames the tank because they couldn't move away from the blue eyes AOE in time lol ?

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Originally Posted by VahnValbosce

Asking for help = "Just Google it"

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Sorry but I agree with this about some things. I deal with it every day at work. Everything I know I found out by Googleing it. I had no one to 'show me the ropes'. If I did it. So can you.

WoW happened >>

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Originally Posted by RedCross

WoW happened >>

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All types of players existed before WoW did. MMO's are just more prevalent now so the number of every kind of player is increased. I have played many games where I enjoyed the game mechanics far more than WoW's. However, WoW is the MMO that created the most fond memories for me. This is entirely due to the players I played with. There were tons of awesome, helpful people in the guilds I joined that helped create countless great memories. Those same type of players are everywhere in this game as well. So many people have distorted nostalgic views on how games/MMOs used to be. There were always players that tried to ruin the game for others. I have met far more helpful players than rude/griefing players so far in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Kafziel

All types of players existed before WoW did. *snip*

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Then consider yourself lucky or not using the df enough lol. In any case he is right it got worse because of wow. (not to blame all the players there, some were nice) but the general culture and it widening the doors for everyone to come enjoy mmos is what did it.

Ill make an example. EQ1. People would train mobs to end zones and shout out about it so that people wouldnt get caught up in a line of death. Sure you had your bad grapes, but that was few and far in between, because if you were an ass, people didnt want to party with you. Try and do stuff like THAT now today and people would use it to grief you to make you get out of "their" zone.

So what happened? Wow did. It changed the mentality of mmos/players (again noting not ALL) in general and now all of a sudden its some kind of "standard".

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Originally Posted by Zikh

What happened to players? Well, I personally got older, more experienced and eventually... jaded as hell and elitist down to the core.

You stand in something that kills you? Ok, now you know what it does so you don't do it again. I'm cool with that. But why would you stand in it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again? It still kills you or damages you like it did the thousand times before. Now the healer has to compensate for your lack of... whatever. I personally can't tolerate other people repeating the same mistakes, at all.

I've only played instanced MMOs where a small party works together to achieve a common goal in a closed envinronment (as in, I'm "cancer from WoW"). I'm a tank, fairly competent one at that. I can carry 99.9% of the groups trough the instances with the healer, no matter how much the dps slacks or fucks up, unless it has dps checks. Seeing "that guy", once again making things harder for everyone gets old, very fast.

Then there are the people who come in undergeared and make the run last 2xlonger or impossible to complete. Just because they want the better gear from the harder instance sooner.

So maybe the instances are at fault? They might be a faulty concept for people who like nice things and cookies, but I like them. I don't really see how you could fit a server population of over 1000 anywhere without instances. Not with today's graphics. It's an easy solution to allow bigger server populations. More the merrier.

What happened to people? Games became different: MMOs started to demand more than just time. MMOs also got bigger, a lot bigger and more popular. Playing games with small populations might be an answer. But on the other hand, will a game that has small population be any good? MMOs require a huge investment of time and money to be good. Keeping people hooked using an instance based lootwhoring is the easiest way to keep people subscribed to an MMO. It's also the easiest kind of MMO to make. It's like a drug, you need your fix (that one item!)

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mostly what he said happened. to people.

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Originally Posted by Arcturius

Also love how I hear this phrase from every ffxi fan boy, "I haven't played WoW and it sucks." At least the WoW community doesn't bash games they have never played. Personally think most of this negativity came from f2p mmos and ffxi. Meh that's my only problem with this game. If you haven't played a game don't talk bad about it. Saves yourself from looking silly.

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Not that I want to prove you wrong..but I never played WoW until about 5 months ago when I saw it was F2P so I tried it...leveling up I met up with someone who I guess was leveling up another character. I told him that I was looking forward to Final Fantasy XIV ARR when it came out. He said...and I quote..."Final Fantasy sucks" and I said oh you tried it? "Nah I've seen videos"

I agree that FFXI had a better community. It may have to do with the fact that it REQUIRED TEAMWORK and COMMUNITATION. Join a FATE group and zerg in silence isn't my idea of a good time. I think v1.0's failure discouraged SE from creating something of their own. Instead, they rehashed old MMOs and created an easy game that doesn't rely on communication.

No more traveling to camps by using silence and sneaking behind goblins? No more organizing exp parties? No more communicating in groups? Yea, FFXIV ARR is definatelly no where near as great as FFXI was.

Remember how we got tons of abilities and spells (ex: Fire I, Fire II, Fire III, Firaga I, Firaga II, etc)? The choices were fantastic and the fact that we had to use the abilities to strengthen them was amazing. It used to be a hard game, but they made FFXIV ARR easy mode. It's very sad.

Here's a Phoenix server player wishing luck to all the community gamers who enjoy a challenging and sociable MMO.

<3

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

So what happened? Wow did. It changed the mentality of mmos/players (again noting not ALL) in general and now all of a sudden its some kind of "standard".

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The mentality of mmos/players/people in general may have changed but WoW was not the cause for much of it. A far more likely suspect is the internet itself and how people seem to think the anonymity of it lets them say and act however they want. I saw very few who changed how they acted in game because of WoW. I did see people who acted differently than in the real world because they were playing a game on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Kafziel

The mentality of mmos/players/people in general may have changed but WoW was not the cause for much of it. A far more likely suspect is the internet itself and how people seem to think the anonymity of it lets them say and act however they want. I saw very few who changed how they acted in game because of WoW. I did see people who acted differently than in the real world because they were playing a game on the internet.

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I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree to a certain extent.. Because before wow, every mmo game i played had very little "bad" experience. It may not have started in wow (im not arguing that and if i did ill go change my words) what im saying is that wow made it THAT much worse by opening the doors of mmorpgs to a much LARGER audience. If the inet's bad influence drained through that medium whos to say, but wow was the medium in which it happened. Like or hate the game wow did influence the genre heavily player or other game wise, no one can deny that.

Hell, some games changed completely due to wows influence. (see SWG)

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Originally Posted by AccountBanned

I respectfully declined the website offer and just said that thanks but I don't trust outside webpages (honestly very polite) and the response was "You're f****** retarded"

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i will agree on the thing about people being mean. I remember back in 2000 in Everquest, when i started. There were many people ready to help and give me gear and coin. People spending hours on corpse runs, random people at that. My theory on that is. Most people back then were older as most children did not have credit cards and as i suspect most parents were weary of giving there child there credit card info. (My parents were chill on this front, i was in 8th grade going into 9th).

Also as most people had computers most parents would not let there children use there computers as they were insanely expensive. I happened to be lucky in that nature and had my own computer but i had many friends that their parents would not let them touch there computers.

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

I would love to rewind time and replay 6 glorious years with EQ1. even with all the time sinks and such. the game promoted a community by forcing you to make friends. whether a mage or druid for teleports or SoW. or simply making an item and or learning the area. duty finder? wtf is that, didn't exist. game forced you to immerse yourself, explore, ask questions and take risks.

my question is, what happened to MMOs?

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I am there with you, i played eq for 10 years, but really back then nobody condoned or put with the type or mentality or attitudes and behavior we see now, yes we did have the elite guild but they didnt act half as bad as what we see now. i still go back and run through the progression servers from time to time. To answer you question, it was WOW and instant gratification.

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Originally Posted by Arcturius

Its just funny that I go on WoW forums and everyone is helpful and constructive and don't bash other games. Come on to this forum and everyone acts like jerks and bashes on WoW as the worst game ever with the worst community.

Yep, FF community is best and all other games are not unique or good. All trash. Except ffxi of coarse. /sarcasm

Also love how I hear this phrase from every ffxi fan boy, "I haven't played WoW and it sucks." At least the WoW community doesn't bash games they have never played. Personally think most of this negativity came from f2p mmos and ffxi. Meh that's my only problem with this game. If you haven't played a game don't talk bad about it. Saves yourself from looking silly.

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Wow serious? Wow forums put redit to shame and thats saying something.

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Originally Posted by Zikh

You stand in something that kills you? Ok, now you know what it does so you don't do it again. I'm cool with that. But why would you stand in it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again? It still kills you or damages you like it did the thousand times before. Now the healer has to compensate for your lack of... whatever. I personally can't tolerate other people repeating the same mistakes, at all.

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http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...aas-246129.jpg
"Did I ever tell you the definition...of insanity?"

Anyway, I might have been lucky, but I found 1.0 to be MUCH MUCH nicer. I had a good LS though, so maybe I was sheltered from elitists. But wow, since 2.0 launched there has been a definite change in behavior from the community as a whole. I dunno if it's because the "Flavor of the Month" club is here for what.

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Originally Posted by Caselia

Make the game harder, leveling take longer, and create more time sinks, when this happens the game will become more social.

1.0 ^

P.S. Remove the ability to solo level unless it's a craft/gathering class.

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Social? i spend hours in FATE grps. And most of my groups we talk and laugh as we accomplish similar goals.

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Originally Posted by AccountBanned

Big post.

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Why does everyone want everyone to be super nice to each other? Not all of us are out to make friends (that's why we get RL friends.) Some of us just want to play FFXIV and not be bothered by others. I do my Duty Finder run and I don't want to be best friends with those on the run. And if that person doing the run is clueless, I dont want to waste my time with them. Best example are those that are tanks but don't take hate, CNJ that have no idea how to cure/protect and DD that keep getting hate from mobs that the tanks arent fighting. I usually correct those people ONCE and ONCE ONLY, if they dont listen, I bail on the run. This game isnt brain surgery and I shouldnt have to be nice to those that dont do their job.

Also, about your refusal to go to a website to learn what you need to know about the game, your LS member was right to yell at you. The guy took the time to give you a web address and for no good reason, you chose to not go there. You couldve been grateful, but instead you told him that you dont visit outside sites, thats rude on your end. Ever heard of antivirus? Usr it and stop being so afraid of the internet.

Also, if you really wanted to not play anymore after such a minor incident, then you really arent committed to your character or the game, you're just here to do stuff with others. I can't imagine why anyone would play FFXI or FFXIV for the social aspect, play it for the story and character development. If all you care about is social interaction, then you might be in for a harsh surprise, cause many could not care less about that, as you can tell by your own experiences playing this game.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

Why does everyone want everyone to be super nice to each other? Some of us just want to play FFXIV and not be bothered by others. *snip*

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If your not here to be social or play with others in a game that screams working with others and the community as a whole, what business do you have playing a mmo? I'm just asking because it makes no sense to me.

It's actually quite absurd.

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Originally Posted by Knosis

I agree that FFXI had a better community. It may have to do with the fact that it REQUIRED TEAMWORK and COMMUNITATION. Join a FATE group and zerg in silence isn't my idea of a good time. I think v1.0's failure discouraged SE from creating something of their own. Instead, they rehashed old MMOs and created an easy game that doesn't rely on communication.

No more traveling to camps by using silence and sneaking behind goblins? No more organizing exp parties? No more communicating in groups? Yea, FFXIV ARR is definatelly no where near as great as FFXI was.
<3

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You keep talking about FFXI in a past tense, you do realize that the game is still up and running and with new content, don't you? If FFXIV isn't as good as FFXI in your eyes, then why are you playing FFXIV instead of FFXI?

In fact FFXI is actually much better now than it has been in the last 10 years, much more content and you arent forced to wait 8 hours to gather 18 people to do the smallest thing anymore. They even have login contests now where you accumlate daily points and you can get rare gear/furnishings or even NM pop items just for logging in daily.

So what are you waiting for? Go to playonline.com and rejoin FFXI since you don't like all the conviences and advanced functions of FFXIV when compared to FFXI.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

If your not here to be social or play with others in a game that screams working with others and the community as a whole, what business do you have playing a mmo? I'm just asking because it makes no sense to me.

It's actually quite absurd.

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Cause its a FINAL FANTASY game, thats why. Not all of us FF fans are desperate for social interaction. Also, dont know if you noticed that this game isnt focused on the social aspect, if the social aspect was their goal then this game would function more like FFXI used to (even FFXI is making most things soloable because it what people want.) Face it, this "requires a ton of time and people" mentality is an old school mmo mentality. FFXIV has the social part done right, you dont know those in duty finder and many of the main scenario battles are solo. Why would they do that if their focus was forcing you to spend a ton of time finding others and requiring you to have a full party for everything? Exacly, because this is a FF game first and a social game as a distant second. Gotta love Square Enix for figuring that out this time around and not making this game a timesink just to get the smallest thing done.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

If you want a great experience:

• Stay away from CM/AK at the moment (the worst gaming habit you could find will be in those 2 dungeons)
• And if you really want to do those CM/AK run NOW, then brace yourself, toughen up and tell yourself is probably temporary

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I'm sorry but I can't stay way from CM/AK seeing as they are the only 2 economical end game dungeons ATM...

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Originally Posted by Kyomih

English is not my native language. I guess it's considered not political correct to use that term? If so, I apologize.
Glad my comment made it possible for you to appear witty and funny though ;)

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You speak it well enough that I had no way of knowing, nor will I give you kudos for pointing this out. However, in that regard, you're correct, our penchant for using derogatory words and thinking them harmless is very strong to the point that we rarely realize our lingo was once and can still be highly offensive. I was pointing out the irony in your post to illustrate that; not to attack you. So much is lost in textual translation.

And I am a witty and funny guy. Sorry if you thought my attempt to be hyperbolic in speech (to highlight irony) was an attack and not light-hearted sarcasm. I will conclude with an emote to demonstrate warmth and regards. :)

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Originally Posted by Uveck

I'm sorry but I can't stay way from CM/AK seeing as they are the only 2 economical end game dungeons ATM...

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1/ hence me saying that in that case just no need to complain because everybody is there out of routine for equipment. Nobody enjoy doing it, so nobody feel like being friendly. it's like a bad day at work. You hate it but you still have to because you need the money. hehe
2/ now that they announced the patch and tomes will be available elsewhere you can now sit back and relax and stop running that dungeon until your brain gets numb ^^

[QUOTE=Cegiana;1410780] snip
[QUOTE]

You see, your missing the point. People did those same things 15 years ago....but the games punishment for that behavior was so swift and brutal that if they didn't learn to overcome they couldn't progress. Humans are capable of amazing insight when left with no other choice. Players that could not figure out the basics never got past a certain point. Thus by the time you got to the really hard content, all the players knew what they were doing. The game weeded out the ones that couldn't play all on it's own.
(side note, this is also where the insult of calling someone an Ebayer started, ignorant players buying fully built characters on ebay)
But fast forward to today and there are no limits. Solo players can get to max level without even trying. Without ever learning to play. Failure is met with no recourse rather than legitimate pain. The player is never forced to be better than they were. To adapt. To learn.

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Originally Posted by Cegiana

You keep talking about FFXI in a past tense, you do realize that the game is still up and running and with new content, don't you? If FFXIV isn't as good as FFXI in your eyes, then why are you playing FFXIV instead of FFXI?

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This argument does not work. Would be like saying if you loved Vanilla WoW and Burning Crusades, WoW is still there. But in reality the game is totally different now.


Most people who state this yet are still here it is because XI was better. Past tense. abysea killed/ruined the whole game, the game has been a shadow of its former self since abysea released and is plagued by the same problems XIV has atm. XI now is a complete joke compaired to how it use to be. If I was to go back to XI with my guild we could get the best of everything in about 2 months.... before abysea we spent 18,900ish hours of scheduled events and never once ran out of progression to do... now there is less then 1000 hrs of content at endgame. The best gear is a drop of a single mob, the gear is more linear, guilds are diminished importance, and there is nothing but instant gratification feed to you. They tried to mainstream a game that was designed for the Hardcores... it is why they lost near 60% of their population in 2yrs. They want to get people to go back to XI, they need to roll the game back 3yrs and remove all the new stuff added.

So XIV has the same problems as XI currently, but XIV has more of a future then XI so it makes sense to stay here. I am playing XIV and subbing, but XI pre abysea was 10fold the game XIV is currently, XIV is twice the game XI is currently.

I honestly wish someone would make a game with as much dept, content, and lasting appeal as old XI, can have new concepts and more modern battle... but the casual only focus is ruining the genre it honestly is. XIV has a very long way to go to even be in the same league as XI was in those regards. The problem is XI was not just a game, XIV is.

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Originally Posted by AccountBanned

I don't know if I have a real question or a point to be made other than I guess my own little rant....but what happened to players? I almost wish after what I experienced today that I didn't pay for another 3 months and I just got a single player game instead.

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Pretty hard to find the point of that thread, but I think it was something along the lines of people should be nicer to me because I'm nice to them. This is the internet where anyone can offer you their opinion, wanted or not, if you can't handle that then maybe you are right, you should pick up a single player game.

Also not trusting "outside webpages" that ask you for no personal information or require you to log in (ffxivdb and gamerescape to name two) is just plain gimping yourself.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

XIV has a very long way to go to even be in the same league as XI was in those regards.

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Did you play FFXI pre-Zilart?

Lemme make it simple. People don't change. So, focus on the people with good personalities. You can't make assholes be nonassholes. Most of them came from WoW. You also have a lot that were from FFXI too. So the best thing to do instead of complaining about it, is change how you tackle dealing with them. Reach out. Make new friends. Get into a friendly FC that fits your specific personality and play style. If Pugs are a nightmare for them, it's probably best not to pug. If you must pug, then become a leader and create the pugs yourself. That way you can fine tune them, and the type that'll end up going into your personal run. Yes, you will always bump into a dick here and there. But that's no different from online than it is the real world, being as we're interacting with a large number of other human beings when it comes down to it.

As 'oldschool saturday morning cartoon special' as this will sound.... you are the largest influence of your own experience of this game. It is what 'you' make of it. When you realize that getting agitated won't fix things for you, then perhaps its time to take another approach... take the way you deal with playing by the reigns, and make the experience the way you prefer it to be. Waiting for other people to get inline and jump on that bus is too large of a variable for you to wait for. That's my opinion on all of this.

Trolling became 'cool' for teenagers.

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Originally Posted by Tooth

Trolling became 'cool' for teenagers.

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http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Hip...a0_2963691.jpg

MMOs became more about entertainment, than challenge.

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Originally Posted by Somi

Here's a question for you guys:

Is there demand for a nice-people-only linkshell/FC or even an unofficial server for those of us who want to make sure to play with genuinely nice people? I'm looking at free server transfers and it's tempting to get this going...

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I have a nice people only Linkshell on Midgardsormr. It's called Shinies! =3 I will allow anybody to join and mostly everyone has been really nice. I haven't had to kick a single person yet, but trolls and people with super bad attitudes would either acclimate and learn to be nice, or be kicked. ^^

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Originally Posted by seekerofpower

Not true. Shinies! LS on Midgardsormr is full of nice folks. We pride ourselves on it. We have even been tossing around the idea of weekly cutscene runs of CM and Prae, for new folks on the server that want to run through it how it is meant to be run.

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D= One of my officers beat me here. >.>

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Originally Posted by Altheras

D= One of my officers beat me here. >.>

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They must be punished!

One thing to keep in mind is we have a lot of FF players just now trying FFXIV who never tried FFXI and who have never played any other MMO. I've run into quite a few of them. They have that solo gamer mentality and they are used to dealing with NPCs rather than real people, which doesn't help matters at all.

Also, I see FAR too many people blaming WoW for all the problems in this community. The truth is, you can't blame WoW as a game, but more accurately you CAN blame the 'random dungeon finder' system introduced in WoW in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, which has since seemingly become the norm across most MMOs released since.

Before the dungeon finder was added, you had to form a group of people on your own server, walk to the dungeon together, and then do the dungeon with these people from your own server. There was no anonymity. Instead, people made lasting friendships and got to know people. If you played on a Normal or RP server the instances of people being total jerks was relatively low. I can't really speak for the mentality on PvP servers as we know what sort of attitude open world PvP games attract. Still, I have to say that WoW used to have a great community, and now it doesn't. Modern WoW and the dungeon finder killed its own community. :/ The situation was made even worse when they added the 'Raid Finder'. Before it, even though you could do randoms with 5 man dungeons, you still had to look to the community on your own server for raiding and end game content.

I know we do have a lot of WoW players on this game, but the majority of the 'now now now' crowd just stayed on WoW. Most of them did not subscribe. Most of those people who are here from WoW probably came here hoping for a better community, as well as a ton of people from FFXI who also came here hunting for the kind of community they were used to on FFXI.

I think the real key to building a community we can be proud of, is to slowly weed out those with bad attitudes. Don't play with them, don't help them finish dungeons, and join linkshells and FCs with positive attitudes. Over time the good groups with decent people will grow stronger and slowly but surely the elitist people with bad attitudes will find themselves more and more isolated, forced to play with only like minded individuals. I've already seen the number of bad attitudes take a serious nose dive now that the free trials have all run out. I think with 2.1 and 2.2 adding even more to do, that less people will be bored, and thus have better attitudes. A lot of people can be real jerks when they're bored.

If you aren't enjoying something because of someone else, black list them. If they are in a random group, leave the group, they'll be forced to find someone else, or maybe no one at all. If enough nice people take a stand and stop playing with those who have bad attitudes, then they'll either realize that maybe they do need to respect others, or eventually quit because they have no friends, no one wants to help them with anything, and they aren't having any fun.

I believe that with time and effort we can make this a good community, we just have to have patience, and give the game time to grow and add new features to duty finder and other things that help build community and increase accountability.
We are the community. Each and every one of us. Only we can make it what we want it to be.

^ This. My company is founded on the principle of politeness and remains to be a driving force in what we do on hyperion. If we can all keep the good players away from those who are rude and impatient, they will slowly leave. We can never be rid of them however we all can mitigate the damage they can do and a lot of them feed off of reactions from others.