My WAR & the two aspects to make you tank effectively!

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Tip: Try not using featherfoot, swap it for mantra Make up for it by using bloodbath + vengeance. guaranteed health over time on strikes vs chance to dodge, guaranteed health wins every time.. Internal release can be pretty useful after a zerk, it's a pretty high beast/wind critical chance.

However, I hate relying on chances. Same reason I won't use awareness - a chance to take less critical is not as good as something that is guaranteed.

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Let's assume you're in a hard fight, where your skills count and you're not just farming unimportant stuff.


Assume Vengeance is 50 attack potency per GCD, for 15 seconds, so that's 6*50 = 300 potency. Bloodbath is 25% healing for 30 seconds. So vengeance contributes a measly 75 attack potency to bloodbath healing. Add to that the healing bloodbath does over 30 seconds (about a cure 1). Add to that the 10% extra healing (or is it 5%? I keep reading conflicting reports) mantra gives you. How hard does Titan hit again? All told, it's a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Now let's say you get hit for 1200 per gcd on average. Over the span of featherfoot that's 1080 damage avoided on average. Yeah, you might get nothing, but you might get more than you bargained for. More importantly, you get it up front instead of spread over 30 seconds. In the case of bloodbath and mantra, some of its healing will be overhealing, because casters will be keeping you topped off. Every hit avoided by Featherfoot is 100% efficient. Featherfoot, additionally, requires 1 single skill cast, whereas bloodbath + vengeance + mantra require you to waste time casting all three together (you won't have enough time to cast all three between gcd's, making you waste time).

Mantra by itself is useful if you are getting healed ~10k healing in 6 gcds, yes. Adding bloodbath and vengeance does little. But Mantra is on a 2 min cooldown, whereas featherfoot is on 90 secs. Featherfoot wins. That, plus I find MNK very boring to lvl and don't want to take him to lvl 42.

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It scales with attack power. Try using Mantra and berzerk + wind.

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I don't have mantra so I can't test it, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't mantra apply only to curing MAGIC and not self healing skills?

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Originally Posted by Tronic

I don't have mantra so I can't test it, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't mantra apply only to curing MAGIC and not self healing skills?

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Mantra (and Convalescence) only effect "curing magic" and Mantra accounts for +5% HP recovered when being cross-classed. It has a 15s duration. It's rather pointless to use Mantra alone; stacking it with Convalescence, which would be 2 cross-class slots, grants a +25% bonus to curing magic for 15s, +20% for 5s - a negligible gain that requires proper timing and macro sequencing by the Warrior to be of any use.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Mantra (and Convalescence) only effect "curing magic" and Mantra accounts for +5% HP recovered when being cross-classed. It has a 15s duration. It's rather pointless to use Mantra alone; stacking it with Convalescence, which would be 2 cross-class slots, grants a +25% bonus to curing magic for 15s, +20% for 5s - a negligible gain that requires proper timing and macro sequencing by the Warrior to be of any use.

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Incorrect. Convalescence's text says: "Increases HP restored by spells or actions by 20%." Try it and see! :D Use Convalescence (EDITED, AND MANTRA) with second wind (after zerk, unchained if you want) and... EDITED - I was incorrect. I just tested this, Mantra may only affect second wind, if anything.

Also, I have zero issues with "proper timing and macro sequencing". It's really easy to press 1 button to add the stacks you need/want (macro together, so that if the others are not off cooldowns they're ignored) then press the second hotbar button.

I USUALLY use inner release instead of Mantra. The chance to crit inner beast/second wind/anything else can just be too awesome... but awareness might even be a better choice to stack with foresight in the long run.

Featherfoot seems pretty useless over all. It's just a chance.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Incorrect. Convalescence's text says "spells and abilities" Try it and see! :D Use Mantra with second wind (after zerk, unchained if you want) and Convalescence with Thrill of Battle. You'll see. :)

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Not sure what you're saying here. I haven't tested it with Second wind, but I can guarantee for a fact that mantra/convalescence/Wrath V all do zero to buff Thrill of Battle heals (as well as Bloodbath and Inner Beast heals). % bonus heals (or % debuffs like disease) aren't applied to % heals like Lustrate or ToB, nor are they applied to absorb heals which rely exclusively on a portion of damage dealt.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

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Thrill of Battle can be used one of two ways: before an attack as a 20% max HP shield, or after as a 20% max HP heal it's numerical return is predicated by the 20% of max HP and cannot be modified by Convalescence or Mantra; Thrill of Battle's effect is Max HP value dependent and that is a "hard" or unchanging value while in combat.

Second Wind is based on attack power and I have not tested to see if Convalescence modifies the HP return.

In Beta Phase 4 & release Convalescence's tool tip was exactly the same as it is now; however after testing it was shown not to effect self-healing through Bloodbath or Inner Beast as both are predicated by hard values in how their HP return is calcutated ie. DMG values - 25% of DMG for Bloodbath no more no less. Inner Beast is predicated by 300% of damage dealt this is a hard value that cannot be modified.

If you'd like to post consistent tests proving otherwise then kudos to you but as I understand it and as I have observed it they do not function as you suggest.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

Not sure what you're saying here. I haven't tested it with Second wind, but I can guarantee for a fact that mantra/convalescence/Wrath V all do zero to buff Thrill of Battle heals (as well as Bloodbath and Inner Beast heals). % bonus heals (or % debuffs like disease) aren't applied to % heals like Lustrate or ToB, nor are they applied to absorb heals which rely exclusively on a portion of damage dealt.

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I'm sorry, you're exactly correct about thrill and IB. I've been talking about this for a bit now and I keep getting my ability names confused (on top of no sleep, woo!)

Convalescence/WrathV/Zerk/Unchained absolutely assist Second Wind, however.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Thrill of Battle can be used one of two ways: before an attack as a 20% max HP shield, or after as a 20% max HP heal it's numerical return is predicated by the 20% of max HP and cannot be modified by Convalescence or Mantra; Thrill of Battle's effect is Max HP value dependent and that is a "hard" or unchanging value while in combat.

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You are correct about IB, Bloodbath and perhaps, thrill. However, second wind is and is absolutely buffed by heal+ stacks.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

I'm sorry, you're exactly correct about thrill and IB. I've been talking about this for a bit now and I keep getting my ability names confused (on top of no sleep, woo!)

Convalescence/WrathV/Zerk/Unchained absolutely assist Second Wind, however.

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Unchained has no effect on Second Wind. Unchained bypasses the -25% Damage penalty incurred by having Defiance active. Defiance does not modify your Attack stat - only your damage output. Second Wind's modification is based on your Attack stat.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Unchained has no effect on Second Wind. Unchained bypasses the -25% Damage penalty incurred by having Defiance active. Defiance does not modify your Attack stat - only your damage output. Second Wind's modification is based on your Attack stat.

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This is correct. It is a heal based on your total attack power stat. I may be incorrect, but I believe the penalty is applied PRE, not POST damage, making it effective, is it not?

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Originally Posted by Tronic

Assume Vengeance is 50 attack potency per GCD, for 15 seconds, so that's 6*50 = 300 potency. Bloodbath is 25% healing for 30 seconds. So vengeance contributes a measly 75 attack potency to bloodbath healing. Add to that the healing bloodbath does over 30 seconds (about a cure 1). Add to that the 10% extra healing (or is it 5%? I keep reading conflicting reports) mantra gives you. How hard does Titan hit again? All told, it's a drop in the proverbial bucket.

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That's not why I suggest you use Vengeance. I suggest you use Vengeance because it causes you to counterattack every hit you're given. When you couple that with bloodbath, you are self healing for EVERY auto attack, and healing for 30-100 per enemy strike. This is higher if coupled with unchained. If your opponent is a fast striking enemy (or a group) you heal incredibly fast due to the constant auto attack hits you are dealing.