Whatever happened to “We don’t balance fights around healers needing to do damage?”

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

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I can agree I just know people will complain either way when adding buttons to healer, I generally avoid healers unless i want a instant queue time (I swear it says tank in need but I'll wait like 3 minutes still)
I personally would like small rotations/procs and more stuff to do on healer, theirs a actual divide of people who don't want more damage buttons on healer.

Weird because most people I've talked to in game, say they don't like playing healer because of the responsibility, but I don't like playing it because it's so boring... I feel like the changes weren't really aimed at making healer players happy more making healer more easy to pick up but it doesn't really work because people are still at a casual level not wanting to pick up healer because of responsibility.

Having something like a simple on healers that are also pretty engaging from a DPS perspective would make healing feel more well rounded as a job, I believe healing the act of it, is pretty easy at this point, if we designed the game for lets say a really new healer, all they're going to generally do anyway is spam cure spells so adding a "Small rotation" to one wouldn't really hurt the new player, I don't really know "who" the one button rotation style is designed for, It's just there to make "healer easier for beginners" but again healers that are new hardly dps anyway.


lastly I can't say confidently "most people like that buttons" I've watched a few videos and seen comments complain about how adding buttons would make healer complicated in savage (I don't play savage healer), because they need to focus on healing more in harder fights, now again I don't really know I've only played healer casually because it's not something that currently appeals to me.

What came first, boring healing or 1 Button rotations?

Meh and meh!

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I can agree I just know people will complain either way when adding buttons to healer, I generally avoid healers unless i want a instant queue time (I swear it says tank in need but I'll wait like 3 minutes still)
I personally would like small rotations/procs and more stuff to do on healer, theirs a actual divide of people who don't want more damage buttons on healer.

Weird because most people I've talked to in game, say they don't like playing healer because of the responsibility, but I don't like playing it because it's so boring... I feel like the changes weren't really aimed at making healer players happy more making healer more easy to pick up but it doesn't really work because people are still at a casual level not wanting to pick up healer because of responsibility.

Having something like a simple on healers that are also pretty engaging from a DPS perspective would make healing feel more well rounded as a job, I believe healing the act of it, is pretty easy at this point, if we designed the game for lets say a really new healer, all they're going to generally do anyway is spam cure spells so adding a "Small rotation" to one wouldn't really hurt the new player, I don't really know "who" the one button rotation style is designed for, It's just there to make "healer easier for beginners" but again healers that are new hardly dps anyway.


lastly I can't say confidently "most people like that buttons" I've watched a few videos and seen comments complain about how adding buttons would make healer complicated in savage (I don't play savage healer), because they need to focus on healing more in harder fights, now again I don't really know I've only played healer casually because it's not something that currently appeals to me.

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There are so many mechanics that you could introduce that would liven up healer "Filler" gameplay that would not require any sort of complicated rotation. Hell, they would not even require any additional assets! We have 5 different spell effects for the same spell already, they just replace your nuke animation when you level up!

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Hell, they would not even require any additional assets! We have 5 different spell effects for the same spell already, they just replace your nuke animation when you level up!

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in some cases (cough toxicon1>2), the animation changes entirely and the lower level form gets left to rot in the 'levelling experience', hardly ever seen again. for some like Bio1 vs Bio2 vs Biolysis, whatever im not that fussed, but for toxicon specifically it angers me because tox1 is THE animation we saw when sage was revealed, in the trailer, and it gets replaced after just like 20 levels. why cant we have a trait that improves the potency of toxicon 1, let it use tox2's animation the whole time, and then use the now-freed tox1 animation on something new

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

in some cases (cough toxicon1>2), the animation changes entirely and the lower level form gets left to rot in the 'levelling experience', hardly ever seen again. for some like Bio1 vs Bio2 vs Biolysis, whatever im not that fussed, but for toxicon specifically it angers me because tox1 is THE animation we saw when sage was revealed, in the trailer, and it gets replaced after just like 20 levels. why cant we have a trait that improves the potency of toxicon 1, let it use tox2's animation the whole time, and then use the now-freed tox1 animation on something new

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What's particularly baffling is how Toxikon I is so frequently used outside of SGE's PVE kit. It's a core tool in PVP and is on Alphinaud's hotbar during the level 88ish instance battle in the MSQ. It feels like SGE was meant to have a completely different approach to its gameplay, and then someone came along and said "no, that's too fun. Make it like all the other healers."

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What's particularly baffling is how Toxikon I is so frequently used outside of SGE's PVE kit. It's a core tool in PVP and is on Alphinaud's hotbar during the level 88ish instance battle in the MSQ. It feels like SGE was meant to have a completely different approach to its gameplay, and then someone came along and said "no, that's too fun. Make it like all the other healers."

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It feels especially strange for SGE because it's probably the only PvP job that could have a straight transfer of its damage kit onto its PvE kit with little to no problems at all. I'm almost inclined to believe the tinfoil hat conspiracy that PvP SGE was originally how it was meant to play.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

It was one of their many excuses not to give healers a damage rotation. They want the role to be as easy as humanly possible in hopes to attract more players. They expect you to smash your forehead on your one damage button until the boss dies, but openly admitting so while also not giving you meaningful healing checks would make them look bad.

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I disagree entirely. Healers are first responders to damage. Giving us a DPS rotation muddles the responsibility and we already have a case for why it would be a bad idea. The current data shows that the second they made meaningful healer checks in 6.2 raids, everyone dropped astrologian for white mage and sage due to being unable to tap astrologian's full potential. Being that astrologian is the closest thing we have to a healer with a full DPS rotation we can tell that (a) the ability bar gets bloated to high hell and (b) its disappointing to have to sacrifice the DPS for healing when heal checks come up. For healers, there is no perfect solution. There is only alternatives. I'd rather have meaningful healer checks with minimal DPS input required from healers than require they do damage. Even if they could do damage, they would never be able to do it consistently due to their first responder role. To do meaningful DPS consistently, the responsibility of healing would need to belong to all players and not just a healer role. That would be a totally different game system.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I disagree entirely. Healers are first responders to damage. Giving us a DPS rotation muddles the responsibility and we already have a case for why it would be a bad idea. The current data shows that the second they made meaningful healer checks in 6.2 raids, everyone dropped astrologian for white mage and sage due to being unable to tap astrologian's full potential. Being that astrologian is the closest thing we have to a healer with a full DPS rotation we can tell that (a) the ability bar gets bloated to high hell and (b) its disappointing to have to sacrifice the DPS for healing when heal checks come up. For healers, there is no perfect solution. There is only alternatives. I'd rather have meaningful healer checks with minimal DPS input required from healers than require they do damage. Even if they could do damage, they would never be able to do it consistently due to their first responder role. To do meaningful DPS consistently, the responsibility of healing would need to belong to all players and not just a healer role. That would be a totally different game system.

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Wait, how in the seven hells does AST have anything close to a DPS rotation? People don't like AST because it has a bloated opener for setting up future healing and its convoluted card system--something that is not synonymous with a DPS rotation.

Ah, I was wondering where this month's hEaLerS shOuLD hEAL oNLy post had gone.

Also, can I add that I don't understand this "but healers need to look out for damage! They need to be ready to drop DPS on a dime to heal!" argument because do you know how often I'm watching a guide for a new EX or Savage fight and go "oh, this is a tank mechanic. I can ignore this." Every fight has several mechanics that are exclusive for tank players to have to manage, and yet for some reason they're allowed to have complete DPS rotations? But how are they supposed to handle all those different types of tankbusters and tank swaps while DPSing? Think of the children!