Tank BIS is crafted acc's, that's a problem.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

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No, the 1.5% dps difference is a full Tenacity build vs non-Tenacity build with crafted accessories.

In a fight like V3S, I personally do 1.74M damage, the boss had 16.4M HP.
1.5% is 26K which is 0.15% of its HP... There a a lot of things a group needs to optimize/fix if they enrage for that droplet of damage...

And in case people aren\\'t aware, Angered\\'s V4S world first had their tank mostly with Tenacity melds.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

No, the 1.5% dps difference is a full Tenacity build vs non-Tenacity build with crafted accessories.

In a fight like V3S, I personally do 1.74M damage, the boss had 16.4M HP.
1.5% is 26K which is 0.15% of its HP... There a a lot of things a group needs to optimize/fix if they enrage for that droplet of damage...

And in case people aren\\'t aware, Angered\\'s V4S world first had their tank mostly with Tenacity melds.

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Oh look, Raffter has 1.2k DH. I wonder what that means.

You did 1.74M damage due to your less Grit uptime, Tenacity isn't the big reason why your DPS is high.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

No, the 1.5% dps difference is a full Tenacity build vs non-Tenacity build with crafted accessories.

In a fight like V3S, I personally do 1.74M damage, the boss had 16.4M HP.
1.5% is 26K which is 0.15% of its HP... There a a lot of things a group needs to optimize/fix if they enrage for that droplet of damage...

And in case people aren\\'t aware, Angered\\'s V4S world first had their tank mostly with Tenacity melds.

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It does seem to be affecting you more than you know. 1.74 is low for v3 and assuming it's not a skill issue then it's a fairly large gap from ten to dh because I'm fully melded dh and did 1.98m even though I screwed up and lost a berserk activation between book phase and adds. The ten is quite a bit weaker for mitigation that is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

It does seem to be affecting you more than you know. 1.74 is low for v3 and assuming it's not a skill issue then it's a fairly large gap from ten to dh because I'm fully melded dh and did 1.98m even though I screwed up and lost a berserk activation between book phase and adds. The ten is quite a bit weaker for mitigation that is irrelevant.

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I never said my dps was high on V3 and nor did I attribute it to tenacity.
My dps is on DRK and I'm in grit more than I should. Also, there are some phase where I know I'm sacrificing uptime for mechanics that's still a risk to my group.
All my saying is that the difference between your dps and mine aside from the class (DRK does lower dps than war, that's just how it is) is largely due to uptime, tank stance downtime and party optimization.
Just changing my substats would not fill that much of a gap. No doubt DH is higher dps, but it's not going to increase my dps by even 5%.

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about tenacity vs dh in this topic. Even when tenacity passes dh at some point in the future crafted accessories will still be bis for tanks because it's the low str scaling that causes it.

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Originally Posted by TheMax1087

I'm not sure why y'all are arguing about tenacity vs dh in this topic. Even when tenacity passes dh at some point in the future crafted accessories will still be bis for tanks because it's the low str scaling that causes it.

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Its not the scaling of the stat itself its that the only want to add 1 are every 10 ilvls that will gaurenteed that tank bus is crafted for the entire expac if things don't change.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

Its not the scaling of the stat itself its that the only want to add 1 are every 10 ilvls that will gaurenteed that tank bus is crafted for the entire expac if things don't change.

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The bigger issue is also because tanks don't get to have DH from their gear so the only way to get it is to meld. Tenacity can be from gear. Like it's sad that as a tank you can only get 1.2k DH for this expansion.

The only question is how much str is worth more than 76DH.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

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There's no evidence that scaling will remaing the same for future gear (ie, 1 STR per 10 ilvl) throughout this expansion.
It a potential risk but we really don't know.
For the current gear, yes it is an issue for sure but SE was stuck between having people keep using the 270 STR before the 340 upgrade or having tanks overpowered for the content once they upgrade their right side.
The most reasonable course of action for SE is to introduce proper right side scaling (in line with the content) starting the next raid tier and keep the current gear as an exception.
Time will tell...
For people who can afford pentamelds, it's a blessing currently because you can gear up a lot faster than other classes. On my server, crafted accessories are dirt cheap (300K) and so are materia VI/V so it\s a reasonable investment.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

they adjust scaling every patch, there is no way to tell if it will be better because we will adjust the weight.

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What do you mean by this? The actual sub stat weighting is not adjusted every patch? Every other patch we get a increase in ilvl and given how sub stats have difference scaling at different levels/amounts, the weights need to be adjusted as these change.

On tanks and crafted accessories, not like this is first time we have seen this. AR had tanks in crafted with STR/VIT melds. From 3.0 to 3.2 the i150 crafted and melded was considered BiS for progression, then had them mixed after that, if tanks did not want to do full STR.

3.2 I believe it was the crafted necklace was BiS if fully meled, given how bad the sub stats on both the i240 ones where.

Really, the only time crafted has not had at last some impact on BiS was 3.4 (and that is likely just cause we did not have 6's we could have put on them).

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

The actual sub stat weighting is not adjusted every patch?

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Crit is the exception because the scaling isn't linear.
Crit is currently so-so unless you can reach a combined DH+Crit of ~3500 which DPS class can barely exceed at fully melded i340. After that threshold, Crit gains in value relatively to other substats.
The future gear tiers will most likely favor Crit since you'll be able to reach higher values where it scales better than other stats.