Yoshi-P on Tenacity

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Originally Posted by Baci

Tenacity is outgoing healing not incoming

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Not only is that incorrect but it'd add to tank imbalance in a big way if it was as you described.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So basically around 20k of the stat? Sure, I'll look forward to that...

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Actually the "20% damage reduction" they're describing would hypothetically take around 4000 Tenacity. Since roughly 200 Tenacity = 1% damage reduction. Of course that would only be possible to attain if Tenacity doesn't have diminishing returns at higher values similar to Determination. But since there's no data on just how much Tenacity gives out upon attaining extremely high amounts yet it's impossible to tell what the potential returns will be like for sure.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I was thinking that had to be a mistranslation. But there's still that line "I believe players will be able to feel the effects of tenacity once the Savage mode of Omega launches next week."

...which if they're not changing how it works, yeah that's not gonna happen.

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I'm not up to date on tank gear itemization, but is there any other secondary stat that adds survivability? His statement could be made to say that Savage is going to be so savage on tanks that you'd be looking for every tiny bit of survivability you can hope to get, and that means you'd even want Tenacity.

In that case, I don't see how there's a conflict.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I'm not up to date on tank gear itemization, but is there any other secondary stat that adds survivability? His statement could be made to say that Savage is going to be so savage on tanks that you'd be looking for every tiny bit of survivability you can hope to get, and that means you'd even want Tenacity.

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I'm hoping to be surprised but I doubt it. Everything in this expansion has been much easier than HW, why would that suddenly change? Especially since we already have people whining about how savage gordias was too hard.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I'm hoping to be surprised but I doubt it. Everything in this expansion has been much easier than HW, why would that suddenly change? Especially since we already have people whining about how savage gordias was too hard.

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I believe the initial content was made easier to allow players to get used to the major class changes/skill rebalances. The end-goal of all this simplification was to eventually make harder content, so I'm hoping that's the plan for the next patch release.

Here's some relevant information on tenacity for those that think it "scales terribly"

And something a user pointed out: "People just need to look at these lines together.
Determination gives 1% bonus damage for every 170 points
Tenacity is still inconclusive, giving estimates between 180 to 220 per 1% bonus damage.
Tenacity is estimated to be not that far from Determination, and Determination is generally seen in a neutral to slightly positive light right now."

It requires slightly more points than determination to be an equal damage increase, but ALSO decreases the damage you take. And then comparing it to Direct Hit...
"Correct me if I'm wrong here, but assuming 39.09 rating per 1% chance to DH, and 190 rating per 1% tenacity (midpoint of where the post said it would be), 18 slots at 40 rating per slot (current gear).
40*18=720 rating
720/39.09*.25=~4.6% damage from direct hit.
720/190=~3.79% damage and 3.79% damage reduction?
So if we, for arguments sake, say that a tank puts DH in every slot, or tenacity in every slot, they would give up ~0.8% damage for 3.8% damage reduction?"

Another thing to add is that tenacity seems to scale linearly both in offense and defense, so as we gear up with higher ilv and the possible amount of tenacity we have increases, the offense of tenacity diminishes in value while the defense increases in value: adding 100 dmg to 20000 isn't as significant as adding 100 dmg to 10000, but decreasing 100 dmg from 10000 dmg taken is more significant than decreasing 100 dmg from 20000 dmg taken. I think it'll be interesting how much better they get defensively when we get to later patches. At the moment the amount of dmg reduction seems quite minimal, but at the very least it's not a terrible stat, considering it's tailing behind det in terms of offense.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

I believe the initial content was made easier to allow players to get used to the major class changes/skill rebalances. The end-goal of all this simplification was to eventually make harder content, so I'm hoping that's the plan for the next patch release.

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Yeah and he goal for tanks and healers was balance, that worked out well.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

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It's going to be a little bit more than that if we're going by the accepted 200 = 1% for Tenacity.

That being said, the main argument people have is that a small percentage of mitigation is pretty inconsequential when you look at how we take damage in this game. There's multiple factors going into this like overhealing, etc.

I think Tenacity will end up being buffed slightly eventually. They clearly didn't intend for tanks to even consider Direct Hit based on the previous Live Letters.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

The problem with tenacity is that it mitigates such a small ammount of damage, in this game the main things tanks have to worry about is tank busters and once that is dealt with they can focus on DPS, if tencacity doesn't help enough to mitigate tank busters then it will be passed up, as it is right now. perhaps if they increased either the damage scaling or damage mitigation aspect of it? as it is right now its basically a new parry.

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Eh, according to one of the theorycrafters, 2170 Tenacity will give you -10% mitigation, and apparently damage scales similarly albeit slightly worse. -10% mitigation is definitely something. I heard Storm's Path was really good for prog.