"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

at the end of the day it is a question of respect and communication

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

at the end of the day it is a question of respect and communication

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Thery don't care they want things to go their way and throw a tantrum when they don't.
This thread is probably just shifting blame for the tank not playing along.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Thery don't care they want things to go their way and throw a tantrum when they don't.
This thread is probably just shifting blame for the tank not playing along with their.

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oh I don't deny such at all honestly most people forget that they play a MULTIPLAYER games and not a solo RP. honestly I have played with many player that if they want to take it slow go ahead I have all my time after all work ask me to rush all the time.

thing became worst when everyone use the words "my time" like in my book if your time is precious go play a solo RP or play with trust.

I have to ask just where people are encountering this with any form of regularity to it to even be a subject to talk on? I am curious if its a DC thing.
Besides like, 3 instances in the game, you literally just run from wall to wall and kill everything, repeat until get to boss, kill boss, repeat for rest of dungeon and it's not even a "hardcore" way to do it, it's not like you need your cooldowns for the bosses and if you doing half pulls you'll be wasting them. It's the FF formula for encounters.

I mean I don't pull and if I tank, I wall to wall so maybe I've just never noticed but haven't seen anything get said.

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Originally Posted by NaoSen

I have to ask just where people are encountering this with any form of regularity to it to even be a subject to talk on? I am curious if its a DC thing.
Besides like, 3 instances in the game, you literally just run from wall to wall and kill everything, repeat until get to boss, kill boss, repeat for rest of dungeon and it's not even a "hardcore" way to do it, it's not like you need your cooldowns for the bosses and if you doing half pulls you'll be wasting them. It's the FF formula for encounters.

I mean I don't pull and if I tank, I wall to wall so maybe I've just never noticed but haven't seen anything get said.

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Honestly this has been my experience and I’ve been playing since 2.0 lol. I can honestly count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen tanks and dps/healer fighting over who should pull. That’s including both while I was on Balmung for a while (don’t ask lol ) and on Odin now. Most of the time even if someone does face-pull the tank can just press like literally any button to immediately get aggro and we continue on with nobody saying anything lol

The question is, why is the tank behind the group in the first place, i almost never have that problem because i already run before the last mob is dead.

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

"You tank it you pull it!" is the tank equivalent of "I'm a HEALER so why am I expected to cast Glare!?"
Only people with massive egos say it, and it's better to instead just do your job. It's not a big deal your DPS want to clear faster, but it is a big deal that you are actually going to throw because you just can't be asked to hit the aoe button by anyone but yourself.

Skiros is a goof, but this is actually a real point tbh.

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So I wanna ask what if someone in your party refuses to bring the adds they pull to the tank? Is it the tank's fault or that party member fault for refusing to bring adds to the tank? I have had lots of people pull ahead when I told them I need a moment to get my dog some water or I needed to adjust my headphones. If they pull while I am afk they have to tank adds till I'm back

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Originally Posted by Arohk

The question is, why is the tank behind the group in the first place, i almost never have that problem because i already run before the last mob is dead.

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to be honest it happen with me often but I sprint before pulling so I reach the second faster because some pulls have a long-distance between each other

If the tank / healer is not confident enough to pull everything and it takes extra work to pull agro off of a dps or healer that is running around because the adds are murdering them for being dumb, ypyt is very understandable!

From a tank perspective I have to chase the adds because you are impatient you deserve to respawn at the start of the dungeon F off. Mind you I don't normally do YPYT it really just depends I usually pull everything that is required by default so people have to really work to get a ypyt mentality out of me. :/

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

If the tank / healer is not confident enough to pull everything and it takes extra work to pull agro off of a dps or healer that is running around because the adds are murdering them for being dumb, ypyt is very understandable!

From a tank perspective I have to chase the adds because you are impatient you deserve to respawn at the start of the dungeon F off. Mind you I don't normally do YPYT it really just depends I usually pull everything that is required by default so people have to really work to get a ypyt mentality out of me. :/

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My brother in christ there is no "extra work".
It takes a single GCD to pull enmity , you aren't chasing after anything, the entire party is going to the same spot. Just run into the pack at the end of the linear path with a huge wall preventing you from going further and do your normal AoE rotation.

It doesn't affect you in the slightest. The ONLY person even moderately affected by it is the healer (as they may need to top the DPS up if they aren't using bloodbath/second wind), not the tank, and by YPYTing you're making the healers job even worse because you're having a hissy fit.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

If the tank / healer is not confident enough to pull everything and it takes extra work to pull agro off of a dps or healer that is running around because the adds are murdering them for being dumb, ypyt is very understandable!

From a tank perspective I have to chase the adds because you are impatient you deserve to respawn at the start of the dungeon F off. Mind you I don't normally do YPYT it really just depends I usually pull everything that is required by default so people have to really work to get a ypyt mentality out of me. :/

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It shouldn't really take much work at all, provided they bring the mobs back towards you, at which point they should get naturally caught up in your AoE attacks. I would go on to say that people should really try pulling everything more, it isn't as bad as it sounds, and only really 2 pulls in Mt Gulg and 1 pull in Doma Castle can give some issues.

YTYP isn't really understandable, it's lethargic behavior just give it a go and see what happens. If they kite them away or play ring-around-the-rosie with you, then yeah, that's on them.. But if you refuse in any capacity then that's on you - and neither is 'understandable'

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

My brother in christ there is no "extra work".
It takes a single GCD to pull enmity , you aren't chasing after anything, the entire party is going to the same spot. Just run into the pack at the end of the linear path with a huge wall preventing you from going further and do your normal AoE rotation.

It doesn't affect you in the slightest. The ONLY person even moderately affected by it is the healer (as they may need to top the DPS up if they aren't using bloodbath/second wind), not the tank, and by YPYTing you're making the healers job even worse because you're having a hissy fit.

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using your own words; You're making the healers job even worse because you're having a hissy fit and running ahead of the group because you're impatient.

1st wrong is on a dps trying to be a tank that's griefing and is reportable. :)

Furthermore not everyone is sensible enough to pull adds near tank aoes so it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It shouldn't really take much work at all, provided they bring the mobs back towards you, at which point they should get naturally caught up in your AoE attacks. I would go on to say that people should really try pulling everything more, it isn't as bad as it sounds, and only really 2 pulls in Mt Gulg and 1 pull in Doma Castle can give some issues.

YTYP isn't really understandable, it's lethargic behavior just give it a go and see what happens. If they kite them away or play ring-around-the-rosie with you, then yeah, that's on them.. But if you refuse in any capacity then that's on you - and neither is 'understandable'

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what's understandable about being a dps that can die to adds running ahead of the group to pull more adds though??

It sounds like people justifying their own poor choices to me.

If you're so strapped for time that 2-4 extra mins in a dungeon is enough for you to fall out over maybe you shouldn't be going to time sinks like XIV in the 1st place.

TBH I'm with you guys on pulling everything if I had my way you would be able to pull wall to boss room but that's not what we got, tghe game devs themselves want you to take your time stop griefing scared tanks and healers..

If a tank can't take even aggro off their teammates(given how streamlined it is to do so than it used to be), that means they're much more terrible at tanking than Duty Support NPCs. Yes, they're worse than Thancred and Wuk Lamat. Because Thancred and Wuk Lamat are capable of taking aggro off you in Duty Support.

If the tank decides to be petty and do single wave pulls like Duty Support NPCs or not taking the aggro off team, then I guess if I'm DPS I'll stick to single target rotation too, just like a Duty Support NPC.

Every role has their ways to contribute to the party.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

what's understandable about being a dps that can die to adds running ahead of the group to pull more adds though??

It sounds like people justifying their own poor choices to me.

If you're so strapped for time that 2-4 extra mins in a dungeon is enough for you to fall out over maybe you shouldn't be going to time sinks like XIV in the 1st place.

TBH I'm with you guys on pulling everything if I had my way you would be able to pull wall to boss room but that's not what we got, tghe game devs themselves want you to take your time stop griefing scared tanks and healers..

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In most cases though a DPS is not going to die unless they sit and try to solo them, or if they try and outright tank them on their own. If they go in, pull them, take them to the tank, then they will barely lose HP because AoE from tank is just going to do the work.. After that it's business as usual.

Personally for me, it's neither a here nor there. If I am strapped for time then I simply queue with friends, or queue as a Warrior, then nothing matters. I just take an issue with people having a lethargic and spiteful mentality. - If they drag the ads to you, and they don't die for it -- and nobody dies for it, then what is the issue?

If too much is pulled, the tank dies because they already popped everything, or because the healer for whatever reason is not equipped to deal with it, then that's fine. But if you're going to turn around and say "You pulled that; that's your problem now, deal with it" - Then I can assure you the only poor choice going on in this situation is from the tank.

Being 'nervous', it's fine.. It's whatever, I have a friend that gets nervous in new dungeons, or when playing a tank they are not wholly familiar with.. That's all fine, but in the same vein, they are not going to change or escape that nerve if they're just going to elect to use it a crutch on their own gameplay, or to hinder their own ability.

But lashing out with the YPYT mentality just ain't a good response.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

If the tank / healer is not confident enough to pull everything and it takes extra work to pull agro off of a dps or healer that is running around because the adds are murdering them for being dumb, ypyt is very understandable!

From a tank perspective I have to chase the adds because you are impatient you deserve to respawn at the start of the dungeon F off. Mind you I don't normally do YPYT it really just depends I usually pull everything that is required by default so people have to really work to get a ypyt mentality out of me. :/

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I agree with this right here.

Are people that bored in-game they're necro'ing all YPYT threads? lol

Lame. Cringe.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Are people that bored in-game they're necro'ing all YPYT threads? lol

Lame. Cringe.

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It's called user-generated content keep up buddy

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Originally Posted by Anhra

"You pull, you tank" is a unwritten Rule among MMORPG players to make sure, that its always the Tank who declares which Target gets killed first, for the obvious reason of having the highest Defense values.

In some Games, you genuinely need to plan your Pulls if you wish to progress and if some DPS or Healer thinks to cut out of line by breaking this Rule, they have to learn things the hard way, since it not only makes the fight more chaotic, it also can turn a fight into a "almost win" situation where expensive ressources or long CD got burned, making other People wait until Ressources are avaiable again or until death penalties are worn off.

In FFXIV, this isnt applied much outside of Deep Dungeons and some of the Coils/Alexander Trials on min ilvl, but the gist of all this, is that Tanking, is a Tanks Job, and pulling, is also a Tanks Duty. Just as you dont want to be critisized for your DPS or Healing performance, Tanks shouldnt be critisized by the way they pull stuff, therefore, if you think youre a special Snowflake by cutting out of Line,

You Pull, you Tank.

That is all there is to it.

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I honestly do agree with what you are saying. I even told a few DPS. Who kept going ahea and dying "if you gonna pull ahead when our healer is new and they asked for small pulls. That's on you not me" most of the time the DPS leave cause they got called out

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

It is so funny you'd say this about dps when tanks are the ones who are allowed to eat vuln snacks like popcorn.

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Joke: Tank privilege and I don't have to worry about positional:P

YPYT is a poor mentality that at best shows you have an inflated ego, and at worst lets your ego kill your party.

The mentality is necessary in other games because tanks actually have to maintain and work for aggro there, so it's safer for the party as a whole to let 1 die while the rest live, here I just spam my AoE combo whether I have 3 or 20 mobs. The size of mob groups is more of a factor for healers than it is for tanks, and considering how simple it is to drop a healer in dungeons anyway, it's still not an excuse to kill or chastise another player. Hell, Arm's Length makes melee DPS pulling technically optimal as it gives extra mitigation while the tank has theirs on cooldown. About the only time YPYT could be acceptable is in something like Criterion Savage where it's safer to let a lone party member die than risk killing all of the party, likewise with Deep Dungeons. But even there, it still feels like an asshole move if the DPS pulled accidently.

Just bring the extra mobs to the tank, they have enough tools to deal with any pull.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

There is not a single post 50 dungeon in the game where this is the case.

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You're right about that, but that's why the only time you see people complaining about YTYP is in sub 50 dungeons. Either the tank or healer is new and they can't play their job properly, then instead of communicating that, they get main character syndrome and double down.

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Originally Posted by Xapapetsu

You're right about that, but that's why the only time you see people complaining about YTYP is in sub 50 dungeons. Either the tank or healer is new and they can't play their job properly, then instead of communicating that, they get main character syndrome and double down.

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I've had YPYT people in expert when queueing with friends on off roles, it's really, really sad. Last time it happened, we just waited until right before the final boss and vote dismissed.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

what's understandable about being a dps that can die to adds running ahead of the group to pull more adds though??

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But it takes like maybe 3 seconds to grab it off of the dps and they're not going to die in those 3 seconds lmao

Use sprint, use your gap closer, I promise you it's really not that hard

Do you need more Quickarm Materia? Because I don't think you fap hard enough.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Do you need more Quckarm Materia? Because I don't think you fap hard enough.

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omg this made me laugh so hard xx)

Not sure why or how the thread has existed for so long, but I'm shocked that some isn't getting the concept after all of this time.

I get why the "You Pull, You Tank" mentality exist in some people. You're telling tanks how to play the game. You're forcing them to pull more just to get things done faster. They're not setting the pace for the group. The group is setting the pace for them. I didn't encounter this until towards the middle of the Stormblood expansion. First was in the Ala Mhigo dungeon where an entire 3rd of the dungeon was pulled. To this day, I'm still shocked that we all did not wipe from that despite being a newbie healer ending the fight with no mana, no resources, everyone at 25% hp with the warrior at less than 10%. The second one was a lv 50 dungeon that dps just kept pulling ahead for the sake of doing so. Seeing how things were starting to turn out from just those 2 interactions alone, I stopped learning how to heal, and I dropped tanking completely. To this day, I have not looked back. It's not worth dealing with the tank abuse.

Is pulling ahead feasible these days? Seeing how it's very easy to hold aggro now and how overtuned tanks are at the moment, probably. That doesn't mean I come into rooms where the room overpulls while they have a healer spamming cure 1 or a dps only using single attacks on the now huge mob. YPYT came as a rebel behavior going against those that are telling others how to play the game. Do I agree with the YPYT movement? Absolutely not. Now you're making the run longer by intentionally griefing the party by not pulling the mobs off. Imagine pulling that letting a dps die after the white mage uses their Swiftcast on their Holy spell. If I was bothered with how other play like I was before I dropped tanking, I would kick tanks out too that displayed that mentality.

Come up with a different solution to combat overpulling. I did in a creative way. Bloodbath, max potions, Second Wind, Arms Length, and whatever other defensives I have for the current class I'm using. If folks wipe from overpulling, I'm watching you teleport back. I'm not joining to start over. This YPYT mentality, under any circumstances, is unacceptable. Either properly deal with the issue or stop queuing up for the role.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

They're not setting the pace for the group. The group is setting the pace for them.

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Yeah, it's a team game. Tanks are not the pace setters.
I suggest going back to tank some day though, they've dumbed them down and overpowered them even further. It's nearly impossible to die in any level cap dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yeah, it's a team game. Tanks are not the pace setters.
I suggest going back to tank some day though, they've dumbed them down and overpowered them even further. It's nearly impossible to die in any level cap dungeon.

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Which in turn, means the DPS pulling over the Tank also isn't apart of the Team since they're just going ahead and setting their own pace, same with Healers if they do. Its such a stupidly nuanced and tiring discussion anyways, like I just don't get why people can't just let the Tank do their thing, or just conversate the point across so people can make it a team thought process.

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Originally Posted by DendrielConcade

Which in turn, means the DPS pulling over the Tank also isn't apart of the Team since they're just going ahead and setting their own pace, same with Healers if they do. Its such a stupidly nuanced and tiring discussion anyways, like I just don't get why people can't just let the Tank do their thing, or just conversate the point across so people can make it a team thought process.

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If I'm a tank and the healer pulls ahead, good, that means they're actively participating and trying their best and I can easily get aggro by using any of my many tanking skills to deal with the situation.
If I'm a healer and the tank lags behind? That's ok, I can heal myself even without them, but it would be nice if the tank didn't have a massively overblown ego and just played the game instead, and grabbed aggro. (Since it is a team game...)

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

If I'm a tank and the healer pulls ahead, good, that means they're actively participating and trying their best and I can easily get aggro by using any of my many tanking skills to deal with the situation.
If I'm a healer and the tank lags behind? That's ok, I can heal myself even without them, but it would be nice if the tank didn't have a massively overblown ego and just played the game instead, and grabbed aggro. (Since it is a team game...)

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Yes, as most tanks will, being a baby about it and not pulling at all is stupid of course and shouldn't happen. What matters here is the arguments I hear about it, DPS and Healer pulling is not MIT for the Tank, and the DPS and Healer shouldn't be pulling extra over the Tank stopping. Its the job of the Tank after that pull to tell people they're not comfortable with the pull, and its the DPS and Healers job to actually care(either in acceptance or confidence in pulling more) and if they don't, then they're just rude. It all comes down to people actually talking and not getting bent out of shape on both sides, respect the Tank/Healers/DPS amongst yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

If I'm a tank and the healer pulls ahead, good, that means they're actively participating and trying their best and I can easily get aggro by using any of my many tanking skills to deal with the situation.
If I'm a healer and the tank lags behind? That's ok, I can heal myself even without them, but it would be nice if the tank didn't have a massively overblown ego and just played the game instead, and grabbed aggro. (Since it is a team game...)

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it's a team game so let me act like a solo player! of course your way of think is a bit dumb here not gonna lie

The reason YPYT is a thing where people get upset if the tank or whoever slows progress is because it is generally accepted that time is valuable. In both situations where one or more players try to force the pace of a run to their liking, one being faster and the other being slower, the most impactful is the one going slower just because you are wasting other people's time. Especially now that there is an option for every single duty where you can take it at your own pace and not impact another person with the Trust system. Now, if people communicate like grown human beings instead of entitled children, there should be no problem at all. I had a healer ask me to go slowly because they're rusty with healing. I had no problem going slow and none of the dps pulled ahead because the healer used their words. After a few pulls I asked if they were back in the groove and if we can speed up and they agreed. Everything went super smoothly after that.

If you want to go slow or at your own RP pace, please don't inflict that on others and use the Trust system. If you need some time or special consideration with a group of players, communicate that but be mindful that you will also be affecting 3 other real life humans with their own thing going on. You aren't the center of the universe any more than they are.

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Originally Posted by Ayedin

The reason YPYT is a thing where people get upset if the tank or whoever slows progress is because it is generally accepted that time is valuable. In both situations where one or more players try to force the pace of a run to their liking, one being faster and the other being slower, the most impactful is the one going slower just because you are wasting other people's time. Especially now that there is an option for every single duty where you can take it at your own pace and not impact another person with the Trust system. Now, if people communicate like grown human beings instead of entitled children, there should be no problem at all. I had a healer ask me to go slowly because they're rusty with healing. I had no problem going slow and none of the dps pulled ahead because the healer used their words. After a few pulls I asked if they were back in the groove and if we can speed up and they agreed. Everything went super smoothly after that.

If you want to go slow or at your own RP pace, please don't inflict that on others and use the Trust system. If you need some time or special consideration with a group of players, communicate that but be mindful that you will also be affecting 3 other real life humans with their own thing going on. You aren't the center of the universe any more than they are.

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like I have said communication and being respectful is something alots of people forget nowdays

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Yeah, it's a team game. Tanks are not the pace setters.
I suggest going back to tank some day though, they've dumbed them down and overpowered them even further. It's nearly impossible to die in any level cap dungeon.

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I think I'll pass. I already saw people complaining about tanks being able to solo subbosses at expansion start. xD Maybe if the devs decide to fix the balance between all 3 roles...

I'll do anything that entertained me. If your a non sprout healer or dps that tries to speed run wall to wall tank another sprout's first time because you just want out asap then you are on your own, and I'll enjoy the amusement of watching you wipe us and send us back to the beginning to take even longer.
If you are a new tank that finds it stressful trying to win back agro, and it still learning to measure out your mitties, then you pull you tank should be 100% be sympathised with.
Pull it's the the tanks job.
Part of a tanks job is reading the pace of your party correctly, healing vs DPS out Vs damage in.
So if you pull your responsible for it working out. And if you get wrong don't be upset that your not just seen as arrogant, but arrogant incompetent.
DPS and healer pulling in higher content is 100% fine 'provided' that *is* fine.

Oh no... 2022. I gotta start checking these thread ages...
Any issue is valid to talk about. But pure opinion pieces need a new thread.

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

it's a team game so let me act like a solo player! of course your way of think is a bit dumb here not gonna lie

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How is being willing to accomodate all the players and in case they need it, cover for them solo play?
Isn't it more solo play to let other players die on purpose?

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Originally Posted by Rin_Sato

How is being willing to accomodate all the players and in case they need it, cover for them solo play?
Isn't it more solo play to let other players die on purpose?

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you play a multiplayer game with many people you shouldn't force other people to play the way you want it that's all there is to it

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

you play a multiplayer game with many people you shouldn't force other people to play the way you want it that's all there is to it

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But isn't a single pack tank, who does not pick up aggro when others pull letting the group wipe, themselves forcing others to play the way they want over the interest of the rest of the group? Let's face it, the main problem with the ypyt mindset is mostly one of ego and not "the best interest of the group".

There are a lot of issues in this community that are hand waved away with the whole, "best interest of the group" or "best interest of the new player" when its actually more of an ego or savior complex thing. I recently started playing WoW and in my first dungeon I stated I was new and I got tons of helpful advice from these strangers I was randomly grouped with. If anyone would have boldly stood up due to their own perceptions of my "best interest" I would have quickly told them to hush so I can learn. Same thing in GW2, ESO and FFXI.