As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

Okay, can we end this thread already? It's going in circles and Feyona is literally carrying the thread on, by herself, by just arguing.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Okay, can we end this thread already? It's going in circles and Feyona is literally carrying the thread on, by herself, by just arguing.

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Oh oh? And Im being quoted left right and centre by people that are arguing with me . Isnt that a bit one sided? Im replying to people that argue with my points and Im the one thats arguing by myself? Really?

1,132 pages of pure arguments..

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I repeat I am not victizing myself its rather my opinion bring victimized because its unpopular with the expected meta. I repeat I am not just speaking for myself and groups are healer bashing for not dpsing and there is evidence here

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At the risk of stretching this out; have a look over my logs, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a crummy DPS when it comes to progression content but yet I do absolutely fine. I've been kicked from a group over DPS (or rather, they cited my miss count) once since HW's release and frankly, raw healing/dps numbers weren't really the issue with that group anyway. I'm pretty happy with that given the number of pugs I've done over the last nigh 2 years. I'll also note that I've raided with a good number of hardcore progression FCs and yes, they've generally picked up my weak personal DPS, but I've always worked hard to offset that by teaming up with DPS hungry SCHs and making sure that I'm consistent and dependable. It clearly works because again, I've never been kicked from a hardcore or midcore progression team or FC.

TLDR - My advice to you is simple, if people are regularly 'victimising' you then chances are they may sometimes have a point here no? Consider recording yourself occasionally, get the logs uploaded too if you can. Then just sit back and study your replays with an open mind. Those gaps and safe windows are always there, you just need to get the confidence to use them.

Last but most certainly not least. Probably the most important detail to remember:

Never ever stop looking for ways to up your game and improve your level of play! There is *ALWAYS* something you can do better.

Since I came back which was 3 days ago. I went into Dun Scaith and Alexanders to get gear and most of the time players including the other healer was very polite and helpful. When I explained that I recently got back and needed to learn again, the other healers would gladly help me anyway they could and I am slowly getting my confidence back and DPS a little bit more. Of course I did have mean people but it was mostly very friendly.

I understand what others are saying here. They are not against people like me which is new to mechanics or scared to screw up but healers who roll their fingers instead of being helpful to the team. For now until I am more comfortable, I do a Succor whenever it's down. I also don't plan to ever do extremes and/or savage because I personally know my limitation and I know I would just ruin their run.

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

I also don't plan to ever do extremes and/or savage because I personally know my limitation and I know I would just ruin their run.

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I think you might be a bit overly careful here. :) I've done some Savage and Extreme learning parties lately and with DF or PF pugs they tend to be messy enough that healers are busy just healing at start, and that's fine. One of them even had a description saying "don't join if you're expecting to clear this". So if you're interested in doing them, don't be afraid to join a practice party! Then when the first phase(s) of the fight start to go a bit smoothly, you can begin with DPSing there a bit, and again focus on just healing when you get to a phase that isn't going that smoothly yet.

Higher expectations are often placed when you're joining a static group that has certain goals for progression, but DF stuff is a different matter.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Never ever stop looking for ways to up your game and improve your level of play! There is *ALWAYS* something you can do better.

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Thanks for your post but I have never had a bad attitude in groups. Rather , and said before, I am always on time never let the group down by having any time off, alwys state what my level of play im at before i join, alawys do my best, always try to do whats asked of me,( sometimes I cant , siuationally) plus i just tried to give examples not be a victim' that is some here 's idea because I see a problem for healers, and my opinion is unpopular , therefore its a method to derogate me on a personal level Even though I think I have some valid points. And some have agreed so It isnt just me that thinks it. Tbh I dont feel that anythingwould be accepted by alot on here except ' I love cleric and healer dps. I just say not everyone can do it is turned into you suck as healer then' ' no wonder your group kicked you' I Are you sure they have a point and I dont? I dont even post on here because i feel victimized Im just trying to support against it being forced on people . I dont seem to be able to get that through to them.

I typed a super long text and just deleted it again, because I think it is not worth the effort, since this is going for >110 pages already and your opinion and points of view are set in stone.

It's sad people were rude to you and tried to force their way onto you. They were not right in doing so.
Since you said you are improving your DPSing as healer, just go on with that, it gets easier with more practice.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Just would like the community as a whole to be more accepting of others.

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Be the change you want to see in the world!
Try to accept others that adore Healer DPS as well, please, and don't ask SE to take cleric away from those who actually like to DPS. That would be unfair.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I think you might be a bit overly careful here. :) I've done some Savage and Extreme learning parties lately and with DF or PF pugs they tend to be messy enough that healers are busy just healing at start, and that's fine. One of them even had a description saying "don't join if you're expecting to clear this". So if you're interested in doing them, don't be afraid to join a practice party! Then when the first phase(s) of the fight start to go a bit smoothly, you can begin with DPSing there a bit, and again focus on just healing when you get to a phase that isn't going that smoothly yet.

Higher expectations are often placed when you're joining a static group that has certain goals for progression, but DF stuff is a different matter.

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Thank you thats great advice!!

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

snip.

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To expand on what Taika is saying (which is really good advice), don't be afraid to make friends. You don't need a static to have a consistent group, and joining FCs, LSs, and discord channels etc. with people you enjoy running with (or even just giving them a friend add if possible) will give you a better experience overall, and allow you to develop better synergy with your team mates, as well as providing a fulfilling social experience.

Some of the best experiences I have had in this game have been from PF groups that have bonded and we all added each other on discord and now do repeat runs of content.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

To expand on what Taika is saying (which is really good advice), don't be afraid to make friends. You don't need a static to have a consistent group, and joining FCs, LSs, and discord channels etc. with people you enjoy running with (or even just giving them a friend add if possible) will give you a better experience overall, and allow you to develop better synergy with your team mates, as well as providing a fulfilling social experience.

Some of the best experiences I have had in this game have been from PF groups that have bonded and we all added each other on discord and now do repeat runs of content.

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Thank you very much, that are really good ideas and suggestions as well!

I agree with freyona. She seems to be the only healer main here. Sadly. The point of this thread was never up for discussion so why an admitted tank and a couple random some time healers had to go on for 115 pages is beyond me. A little about myself I have mained healers since I started over 2 years ago and to this day if I run up on someone acting like any of you outside freyona have been acting for 115 pages. I simply do not party with them. Because if I have to carry a group on my back by healing and dpsing I might as well lose the group and play solo.

Can we just accept the fact that there are healers that don't want to DPS and be done with this already? No amount of arguing is going to truly change much at all. No amount of yelling and insults isn't going to make people magically change their minds. If the person wants to DPS, they will do it eventually. Insulting them isn't going to make the process go any faster. If anything it will just push them away from it. A lot of people fail to understand that and this minor issue seems to bring out the worst in people.

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Originally Posted by Coldstoni

I agree with freyona. She seems to be the only healer main here. Sadly. The point of this thread was never up for discussion so why an admitted tank and a couple random some time healers had to go on for 115 pages is beyond me. A little about myself I have mained healers since I started over 2 years ago and to this day if I run up on someone acting like any of you outside freyona have been acting for 115 pages. I simply do not party with them. Because if I have to carry a group on my back by healing and dpsing I might as well lose the group and play solo.

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You won't group with people because they offered sound advice on how to properly balance healing and DPS? No one has been openly antagonistic towards Freyona. This thread spiraled on for 115 page due to strawmans like your own. She came here looking for her opinions to be validate, and when they weren't, attempted to argue otherwise. No one has advocated you should be solely responsible for everything. In fact, that's a detriment to the group. Both healers should share the respective healing and DPS roles.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Can we just accept the fact that there are healers that don't want to DPS and be done with this already? No amount of arguing is going to truly change much at all. No amount of yelling and insults isn't going to make people magically change their minds. If the person wants to DPS, they will do it eventually. Insulting them isn't going to make the process go any faster. If anything it will just push them away from it. A lot of people fail to understand that and this minor issue seems to bring out the worst in people.

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We can if they accept people will judge and potentially exclude them from content. This whole debate boils down to someone unable to handle stance dancing and their group ultimately deciding to kick them. At Savage levels, you will see they fairly often outside pugs because expectations on everyone are significantly higher.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Can we just accept the fact that there are healers that don't want to DPS and be done with this already? No amount of arguing is going to truly change much at all. No amount of yelling and insults isn't going to make people magically change their minds. If the person wants to DPS, they will do it eventually. Insulting them isn't going to make the process go any faster. If anything it will just push them away from it. A lot of people fail to understand that and this minor issue seems to bring out the worst in people.

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I completely concur. Remember the provisional IF there.

[QUOTE=Bourne_Endeavor;4093952]You won't group with people because they offered sound advice on how to properly balance healing and DPS? No one has been openly antagonistic towards Freyona. This thread spiraled on for 115 page due to strawmans like your own. She came here looking for her opinions to be validate, and when they weren't, attempted to argue otherwise. No one has advocated you should be solely responsible for everything. In fact, that's a detriment to the group. Both healers should share the respective healing and DPS roles.
And no one asked your opinion.
having to carry your sorry behind through content because your too lazy to Excell GOES BOTH WAYS

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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Handling stance dancing in higher difficulty content is a lot different than stance dancing in a random dungeon. While I agree a healer that doesn't stance dance in higher content shouldn't be there. I'm speaking of DF, kicking someone from a dungeon because they're not stance dancing is a bit..dumb if you ask me. But that is my personal opinion and I'd rather not add more to this pointless argument that neither side are budging on. Thankfully for me I have yet to see people wanting to kick someone over something that is truly minor.

Edit: Well minor when it comes to DF to say at least.

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Originally Posted by Coldstoni

And no one asked your opinion.

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Who asked for yours then? :o
You should probably chose your wording more carefully, since you seem really rude. ^^

In fact, there are many main healers here, who took part in the discussion. I am main healer, cleared latest Alex Savage Tier completely and I am far away from being a pro.
Guess what? I cleared it as SCH and provided a fair amount of DPS. ;) Furthermore I enjoy being able to DPS, because it takes away a huge burden of my DDs, because I can help them reach a certain point of bosses LP to skipp mechanics. Awesome feeling to be this helpful! I don't think I am carrying them or I have to make up a lack in their DPS, but I can provide additional damage!
:)

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Handling stance dancing in higher difficulty content is a lot different than stance dancing in a random dungeon.

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That's certainly true, but doesn't really help the argument, because stance dancing is a whole lot easier in random dungeons than it is in higher difficulty content. The timers are a lot less strict, the punishment for failure much smaller. It's the ideal training ground.

What irks me personally is that the devs apparently expect tanks and healers to only use half their toolkit, but expect DPS to pull 85-90% of the DPS they could, in theory, be pulling. It's a gross double standard if I ever saw one and really damn unfair. What aggravates me is that people expect me to constantly push buttons while one person of the group is just... jumping around, doing nothing. That happens primarily in random dungeons. It's unfair.

And how to remove that unfairness?
a) Have the person do something/perform higher (Asking them to DPS as well)
b) Ask SE to please make DPS less involved and easier
c) Ask SE to please make healing more involved and harder

Personally, I'm in camp a until SE gets around to either b or c. I'd prefer c myself.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Can we just accept the fact that there are healers that don't want to DPS and be done with this already? No amount of arguing is going to truly change much at all. No amount of yelling and insults isn't going to make people magically change their minds. If the person wants to DPS, they will do it eventually. Insulting them isn't going to make the process go any faster. If anything it will just push them away from it. A lot of people fail to understand that and this minor issue seems to bring out the worst in people.

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exactly this.

the whole idea of this topic is just beyond me.

arguing that more healer dps leads to more mitigation is correct. with more mitigation i have to heal less... so, i, a healer who just likes to heal, should dps more so i have to heal less? but healing is the part i want to do, and dpsing is the thing i don't want. so the more i dps the less can i do the thing i want to do?

how does anybody think that this whole idea of more dpsing = less healing could change the mindset of heal only healers?

i have only one soultion to the whole problem:

a new healer class wich does not dps, but has a lot of utility and party buffs to compensate for that. sadly, that's basically AST without cleric and better buffs, so i guess it won't happen xD
or an opposite scholar: a healer with a dpsing pet on auto pilot... yeah, i would like that...

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Personally, I'm in camp a until SE gets around to either b or c. I'd prefer c myself.

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Im sorry that I have to respond here but why is this about 'work' or how much you think dps does compaired to healers. Dps have to dps because they choose dps. I agree healer dps is easier in dungeons, and it is totally different in savage because even if you know stance dancing its a big leap to do in savage. Saying that though, I work my ass off just healing in savage. I mean doesnt anyone enjoy dpsing? Its not a 'job' like its supposed to be enjoyable, they must enjoy dpsing or why play the game? On the other hand I chose healer and hate dpsing. i play healer cos thats what I enjoy. It really neednt be about how much someone does maybe just respect of each role. Just like the analogy of goal keeper. I may leave this game if Im forced to do something I dont enjoy at all. By the way I do accept your point about effort but Ive worjed hard just to be a healer too .

I'm really mostly curious about what people who primarily play healing classes DO with all of that excess time just standing around. Unless you have a really crap group that warrants constant Cure/Physick/Benefic spamming, I just don't see how standing around literally waiting for something to happen is enjoyable. If the group is garbage, sure, heal the whole time because they're bad, should feel bad, and would lose without you doing that.

Nobody, or at least most people anyway, who are pro-healer DPSing in Duties (not just savage) has ever claimed that they need healers to DPS to win an encounter. They just want people who are there to be doing something to help move the instance along instead of dancing or jumping around the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Tint

a new healer class wich does not dps, but has a lot of utility and party buffs to compensate for that. sadly, that's basically AST without cleric and better buffs, so i guess it won't happen xD
or an opposite scholar: a healer with a dpsing pet on auto pilot... yeah, i would like that...

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This is a fine idea, but we have already seen it in practice: with PLD.

Paladin is designed to be the tank who's sole job is tanking, WAR is the DPS tank and PLD is the tanky tanky. In 3.0 they decided to give PLD a bit more identity on the support side and it fell flat,with players opting to go for the higher DPS options, and nobody wanted the low DPS option. PLDs problems don't stop at lack of DPS, but it's a fair comparison to show that tanks have to deal with a pro DPS argument too.

Would I like to see a healer with lots of utility? yes. Would it work in the current game design? not unless said utility was balance cards. The fact of the matter is that all buffs except damage have caps where if you pass that point the buff is useless, and having a healer designed around these non damage buffs would not be viable because people would find other ways to hit the cap and just take SCH and AST, as is seen in the tank meta.

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Originally Posted by Coldstoni

I agree with freyona. She seems to be the only healer main here. Sadly. The point of this thread was never up for discussion so why an admitted tank and a couple random some time healers had to go on for 115 pages is beyond me. A little about myself I have mained healers since I started over 2 years ago and to this day if I run up on someone acting like any of you outside freyona have been acting for 115 pages. I simply do not party with them. Because if I have to carry a group on my back by healing and dpsing I might as well lose the group and play solo.

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Thank you for saying that, and Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'. If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response :) and even when you follow advice and do what others want and people look at your dps as healer its still criticized for not using shadow flare or bane enough. So you have to say ' I love cleric and love dpsing as healer' first then your performance and your personality wont be judged. My post limit is up but Wanzer below has just proved my point, and made herself seem very hyporcritical in the process :) They only want to hear 'I love dps' Im really also not sure what I was expected to say to lamdafish or wanzer. Ive read their posts and they offer advice with a snipe in between like digs about me wanting to be a victim or such like and then Im not supposed to respond to what they say and yet they say I dont read their posts so Im not sure really what they were after from me really tbh Im 'attacked' and then respond to those insults then Im called a 'victim' Its a double bind because no matter what I say to insults is going to be me being at the end of it and respond in the way any normal human beiing would by attempting to defend myself. Wanzer in particulary has decided to be quite derogatory and attack my personality for some reason only she knows. Im certainly not sure why . The only reason I can think of is that I didnt agree that I suck if I dont dps and must improve myself yet already said that I do and have. Tbh that last comment was really quite nasty and then they wonder why people are 'victims' of it.

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

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Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

My argument about attitude goes both ways (its a few pages back if you didn't read it) and toxicity stems from both ends of the spectrum. We are much better off educating than attacking, and as seen by several healers who lack confidence in their ability in recent pages, they appreciate the advice and we need to support them.

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

Three or four pages ago, with Lambdafish and your answers about him, I honestly thought it was the end of this thread, but you came back again with that weird "community is bad and harassing me" for no reason, and it started again...

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Honestly, I have exhausted everything I could possibly say to Feyona, so that particular discussion did end for me because I'm not longer taking the bait, I'd recommend you don't engage either. You are right that she just wants validation, but in saying so just provokes the victim response over and over again, so the best course of action is to stop engaging. We tried, we really did, but this thread is far more productive if we address the concerns of people who are actually willing to listen, like Sebazy and CuteWhisper.

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Originally Posted by Doluka

I'm really mostly curious about what people who primarily play healing classes DO with all of that excess time just standing around. Unless you have a really crap group that warrants constant Cure/Physick/Benefic spamming, I just don't see how standing around literally waiting for something to happen is enjoyable. If the group is garbage, sure, heal the whole time because they're bad, should feel bad, and would lose without you doing that.

Nobody, or at least most people anyway, who are pro-healer DPSing in Duties (not just savage) has ever claimed that they need healers to DPS to win an encounter. They just want people who are there to be doing something to help move the instance along instead of dancing or jumping around the whole time.

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Answer is simple go dps and enjoy yourself , let others do the same to enjoy what they like. Well talking for those that cant allow anyone else to have a choice that is. Just think of goal keeper that stands and wits for a ball, the role is different

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Thank you for saying that, and Im sorry you will be immediately 'jumped on ' for it. Sadly all you will get is ' advice' on how you should 'improve yourself'. If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response :)

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Aaaww, you are right, people trying to be helpful is such an horrible thing, if only they only said "you are right, keep up the good work, you are great" and move on. :<

You just confirmed what I told you : you only want people who could validate your point, nothing more. You don't really care about everything else.
Three or four pages ago, with Lambdafish and your answers about him, I honestly thought it was the end of this thread, but you came back again with that weird "community is bad and harassing me" for no reason, and it started again...

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Originally Posted by Feyona

If you come here saying you love cleric you will get a much nicer response :)

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And this, my friend, is crap, and you know it. But it's here to serve your argument about being harassed, again. And again, it only proves that :
1 - You don't read the people's comments, because they don't go in your way anyway.
2 - You read but don't understand the people's comments.
3 - You need your daily cry to feel alive, and being a victim is the best way you found for it.

And whatever the good answer is, it's very sad to see you keep running in circle. :/
Among all the people giving advices about how to DPS as healer (or at least, how to improve yourself, and even taking account the lack of confidence), there isn't such wall than you here.

Edit :
Oh, and before you say i don't respect your stance, i do, the problem is you not being able to communicate without ignoring most of the comments, or taking sentences out of their context to make your point. And it's not how a debate works.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Incredibly humble and thoughtful reply.

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Wow I think you are doing absolutely amazing. Your attitude is so great too I wouldn't even mind if you were only managed to do 10 DPS in a whole run.

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Originally Posted by CuteWhisper

Since I came back which was 3 days ago. I went into Dun Scaith and Alexanders to get gear and most of the time players including the other healer was very polite and helpful. When I explained that I recently got back and needed to learn again, the other healers would gladly help me anyway they could and I am slowly getting my confidence back and DPS a little bit more. Of course I did have mean people but it was mostly very friendly.

I understand what others are saying here. They are not against people like me which is new to mechanics or scared to screw up but healers who roll their fingers instead of being helpful to the team. For now until I am more comfortable, I do a Succor whenever it's down. I also don't plan to ever do extremes and/or savage because I personally know my limitation and I know I would just ruin their run.

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Such a great attitude as well. No matter what you may run into mean people, I've been in dungeons where I am the top DPS as SCH while keeping everyone alive and had people complain that I shouldn't DPS. But it is always the exception and not the rule to meet these people. Just keep being awesome.


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For all you other aspiring Scholars out there, with the addition of Echo in Creator Savage it's a great time to practice stretching your DPS legs and build some synergy with your co-healer in anticipation for Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

They stand idle waiting for people to take damage and heal people who are already at full hp, and then claim they don't have time to dps. That's why I think people should use fflogs more, you can see exactly what's going on in an instance.

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You are exactly right. It's such a useful tool for looking at how to improve a playstyle. I've read way too many logs and know exactly how a fight went down just by glancing over them.

IMO it actually helps reduce frustrations in a static. You can't always look at what everyone is doing in your group while progressing etc, but by being able to look at the logs you can say:

- Hey AST, if you keep up Aspected Benefic on the tank instead of Benefic spamming, the combined HPS of that and the SCH pet will open a 60 second window to DPS

A lot of healers don't put enough faith in their regens and the pet because they don't look into DDPS values of the tank from bosses and it's hard to gauge to that degree during the fight.

Look at A9S Refurbisher. ~ 1900 DDPS to the MT

i270 AST Benefic is 800 HPS. Fairy Embrace @ i270 1300 HPS - 2100 HPS combined. "Hey Co-Healer, let's see if we can keep the MT up with just Regens + Pet and I'll top them with Essential Dignity during tank busters and cleaves"

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Not every "non-DPS" healer is like that, and we can unanimously agree that healers who idle are terrible. It is this kind of hostility and accusation that forms these threads, and I'd rather avoid attacking people and scaring off healers who are potentially not skilled enough, but are open to improvement.

My argument about attitude goes both ways (its a few pages back if you didn't read it) and toxicity stems from both ends of the spectrum. We are much better off educating than attacking, and as seen by several healers who lack confidence in their ability in recent pages, they appreciate the advice and we need to support them.

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I'm not attacking anyone, I'm saying that fflogs is a good tool for education. However, yes all healers who do not dps either stand idle at times, waste time and effort healing people who don't need to be healed, or even both. I'm not implying that it's intentional, but it happens. Analyzing fights and your actions on fflogs can help identify those areas. You say that not all non-dps healers are like that, but I ask you, what do they do with their time that makes it so they can't dps? That time doesn't just magically disappear, it's there somewhere being occupied by something. I'm not saying all healers should be perfect, hell I'm far from perfect. But saying you don't have time to dps just isn't true. The time is there, people just need to learn how to find it.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

My post limit is up but Wanzer below has just proved my point, and made herself seem very hyporcritical in the process :) They only want to hear 'I love dps'

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Wait... I never said this. Or even think about something like this! But.. How? Did you even read my comment? All of them? Because I even said (a few pages ago) that i'm ok if people aren't comfortable enough for DPS'ing as healer. But... I know, you couldn't keep that part as you couldn't use it in your weird stance.
But... How ironic it is! And no, i didn't make your point more valid... Oh boy... How did you come up with this from my post? It's amazing how it works in your head... You really should stop lying to start your own war. :/
And by the way, your edit was very sneaky.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Honestly, I have exhausted everything I could possibly say to Feyona, so that particular discussion did end for me because I'm not longer taking the bait, I'd recommend you don't engage either. You are right that she just wants validation, but in saying so just provokes the victim response over and over again, so the best course of action is to stop engaging. We tried, we really did, but this thread is far more productive if we address the concerns of people who are actually willing to listen, like Sebazy and CuteWhisper.

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Yeah, you are right, i should only stay focus on people who really want to talk and share opinions without nonsense. So... Yeah, i give up at this point. '-'

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

For all you other aspiring Scholars out there, with the addition of Echo in Creator Savage it's a great time to practice stretching your DPS legs and build some synergy with your co-healer in anticipation for Stormblood.

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^Clearly the best part of the addition of echo!

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

I'm not attacking anyone, I'm saying that fflogs is a good tool for education. However, yes all healers who do not dps either stand idle at times, waste time and effort healing people who don't need to be healed, or even both. I'm not implying that it's intentional, but it happens. Analyzing fights and your actions on fflogs can help identify those areas. You say that not all non-dps healers are like that, but I ask you, what do they do with their time that makes it so they can't dps? That time doesn't just magically disappear, it's there somewhere being occupied by something. I'm not saying all healers should be perfect, hell I'm far from perfect. But saying you don't have time to dps just isn't true. The time is there, people just need to learn how to find it.

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Apologies, I may have been a bit forward, but I have come across people who are rash about healer DPS and lump all healers regardless of skill level into the "choosing not to" category.

FFlogs is a useful resource for top tier play you are right, but I wouldn't say it is necessary for a healer who is still learning how to DPS in fights. FFlogs is more about optimisation that actually learning what gaps in healing look like and how to properly open those gaps. As for people saying they don't have time to DPS, it is valid point that maybe they can't see the gaps, and its more about teaching them how to recognise them and open them up than actually optimising rotations and fight mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

.....learning what gaps in healing look like and how to properly open those gaps.

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That's a very good point which I didn't even consider in the post I just made, since I naturally play aggressively that never even crossed my mind that other healers wouldn't naturally see those gaps. I would imagine until you develop that basic mentality of looking for those gaps you wouldn't even be able to look for them in logs to further optimize. Also since a lot of healers sit on their CD's for emergency situations instead of using them efficiently during a fight they may not even get to see those extended openings.

I guess that's why when healers begin to want to fit in DPS it actually makes them overall better at healing because they start to develop that mentality of being efficient and actually gaining an understanding of how their toolkit functions.

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

Yeah, you are right, i should only stay focus on people who really want to talk and share opinions without nonsense. So... Yeah, i give up at this point. '-'


^Clearly the best part of the addition of echo!

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Just becuase I thank someone for agreeing with me doesnt mean Imjust looking for validation. I replied because I thought it was nice of the person to say so. Plus what exactly are you looking for from me? If you insult me I m going to defend myself, If your wrong about my situations I will correct you. How do you know what I think? If your wrong I will tell you, if Lambdafish says stuff like ' you dont attempt to dps' I will tell him hes wrong and give evidence, so what exactly is your problem with me? And what do you expect me to say? Oh yes and I come here to look for validation ...sure and the sky is green. Im going to get plenty of that here arnt I? Again I will tell you why I post here is because I see aproblem with healer dps being expected or forced as if I havent said so a hundred times and this is the place to give feed back on the matter. The point I make about you have to love dps on here is cos you get slated if you dont think its absolutey wonderful to be 'optimal' and 'good for your team' I thunk the stress put on healers out weighs the so called benefits of a fast clear

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

Yeah, you are right, i should only stay focus on people who really want to talk and share opinions without nonsense. So... Yeah, i give up at this point. '-'

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Don't take the bait, Wanzer. This "discussion" has been over and done quite some time ago and the only reason pages keep getting added is because a few people are saying outrageous things that others feel they can't help but respond to.

Let's all note the original poster was done with this nonsense quite some time ago, probably for that same reason.

I read the begining , until it became another onbnoxius healer dps post, and the last page of this thread, and beyond the personal attacks from non healers who demand healers to dps, its funny vote kick abuse for healers who dont dps was used as reason for kick people (its not against the rules) and people now use fflogs=parser wich is against the rules and think its ok...this comunity is completely hypocritical.

To the subject, if people who complain are so skilled, why u need so bad healer dps?
My persoal experience show that most(60%+) tanks and dds are just plain lazy and have absolutely no sense of responsavility, to the point i prefer sometimes to leave dds dead and just dps myself (and that happens a lot in ex roulette) than waste my mp, and when i took that decision the party were sucessful, so the main problem for me is the vote kick abuse , wich square fail to see and take action.

A side note to the fflogs thing, if you watch video replays on youtube it's worth searching for the logs as well as you'll find a lot of people will upload both. Makes it a lot easier to digest the numbers and graphs.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Don't take the bait, Wanzer. This "discussion" has been over and done quite some time ago and the only reason pages keep getting added is because a few people are saying outrageous things that others feel they can't help but respond to.

Let's all note the original poster was done with this nonsense quite some time ago, probably for that same reason.

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I think she may not respond because she doesnt have a justifiable answer. And one person here that actually did want to communicate without insults is me. And just because I dont agree with you when your wrong Im getting hate because some of you on here only like points to support healer dps. Which I cant agree to or I would have to lie and say its good for everyone, which it isnt. Because Im one who says it isnt good for me. Apart from that if you are withdrawing isnt it you that cant communicate properly? Works both ways

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Originally Posted by Feyona

Apart from that if you are withdrawing isnt it you that cant communicate properly? Works both ways

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It's more the fact that that, over the past 50 pages, it's been amply demonstrated that the only position you'll support, agree with, or respond favorably to is one that is 100% in line with your own. So it's really no use responding to you at this point because you keep inciting circular argument for....what? What is your goal here? What are you trying to accomplish? As noted, many times, you selectively quote opposing points and ignore the moderate views that many people have advocated.

At this point I'm honestly not sure whether you're a very dedicated troll, or just extremely stubborn ESL who doesn't quite understand what is being said.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

That's a very good point which I didn't even consider in the post I just made, since I naturally play aggressively that never even crossed my mind that other healers wouldn't naturally see those gaps.

I guess that's why when healers begin to want to fit in DPS it actually makes them overall better at healing because they start to develop that mentality of being efficient and actually gaining an understanding of how their toolkit functions.

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I dont see any gaps at all when Im learng a fight, because Im too busy watching mechics abd watching health bars at first. Its like driving at first everying like junctions come up seeminglvery fast until you get used to it and driving itself you dont have to think about. To me learning fights is like learning to drive. I have healed so long now as a healer its always my main focus to keep people alive. I guess sometimes allowances are not made often for people that learn in different ways