Yoshi-P lied

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

if people said the were never easier ? totally fair. but lazier ? Making each zone drop a singular item through fates which you need an average of 5-10 hours to farm per drop and from which you need one from every expansion zone is NOT more design work than the hildibrand questline that we got. people can argue the game needs more grindy content with meaningfull rewards as a sort of long term activity, i would even concede that people that do so would have a valid point, but things like island sanctuary are not "less work" than adding the next bozja just because it doesn't keep people grinding for just as long. the relics aren't any lazier than most arr/heavensward steps just because they take 1500 tomestomes per step instead of forcing you to run old primals 200 times. the real difference is that one took 50 hours if you were quick and the other takes 6 of actively playing casually, but this is nearly never what these threads discuss.

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I'm going to likely be in the minority when I say Bozja is a good example of what they did with their content. It was a zone not just focused on the relic but allowed us to grind for mounts, haircuts, glamour etc. They used those two zones to their advantage to keep content going for people. Now, I don't want them in the slightest to add some of the steps to this relic weapon, because it was honestly awful. What would be good is to keep us engage with what they have now in the game and what they currently have. Do I want to run Hells Lid a bunch of times? Anti tower? No, but they can have us still re engage with older content and make it fun. I don't want to say they're lazy, they are likely very busy and stretched thin. However even if I gotta do some quests in Island Sanctuary to get some specialized ore for a few hours, then okay, good. Island Sanctuary is now being utilitized. Oh, did Nanamo find a special liquid in criterion for us after clearing? Yes, wonderful people are reengaging this content too. Oh and there is a new hat that Viera and Hrothgars can wear as well. Wow here is a catalyst finally needed after clearing EO! Wonderful and I worked on my weapon there as well.

I am not expecting them to make a new Bozja and I had fun doing this content. The issue is, I have no reason to keep doing this content!!! That is honestly the biggest problem. They have the content so use it. They have means to create things for it, but they aren't.

I enjoyed Bozja/Eureka because it inserted you in a world where people are actively working together in a large environment . It makes everything feel alive and truly active as you see an abundance of diverse characters and players running about. Which is something I wished they could replicate in the open world sections of the game. It feels like FFXIV - which boasts so many players - can only showcase that impressive number in city hubs on any given day outside of special occasions.

I think the present patch cycle becomes dull because that activity you witness on patch day is like a flash in the pan. Painfully brief.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Sorry but I cant personally relate to this as I enjoy playing other games and have a working job and a tight schedule, and I learned not to just rush things (even though you claim to have done so). Grinds get boring extremely fast and I cannot sit through doing the same thing for more than an hour. So the content grind presented to me in this patch with Deep Dungeon, Weapon relic and Crafter/Gatherer relic I cannot do within a single day because its not fun. I can only feasibly do a bit at a time and then move on to something else. So while yes, theoretically these grinds for can be done within a day, I just lack the time and interest to do such a thing because its seriously not worth it imo.

So what I basically wind up doing is spreading the grinds out a little bit each day so it doesnt get stale nor boring in my short playtime and I can focus on other things. This way, I can avoid burnout and still have some enjoyment playing the game so what it winds up doing is this content taking me more than a week to fully complete. The fact that Im even allowed to do something like this in an MMO and not feel pressured to rush is a fresh of breath air for my time.

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I assume you meant to say I didn't rush things given the context of your response. For the sake of argument, and because people continuously belabor that point, there isn't content to rush. It simply lacks any sort of longevity. Hence my examples of the MSQ and 24 man which are one and done occurrences as are the side quests. It won't take you more than a couple days to complete the former two while the side quests are little more than an hour if I'm being very generous. Even if you did only one of each a day, all of them combined still wouldn't last a week. Moving to the relic step, all you need to do is complete every roulette for the day except MSQ and you'll have a relic every second day. This assumes you do literally nothing else that rewards Astronomy. Per Yoshida's own words, "several players like to collect 3-4" relics, this wouldn't last someone taking their time more than two weeks. Basically, unless you want to collect half the relics or more, you're done with everything 3.5 offers in just two weeks. And that is assuming a rather slow progression curve. Which goes on to illustrate the point myself and others have been making: people aren't rushing content. There just isn't anything to do.

Now I do want to address a particular comment you made: "I just lack the time and interest to do such a thing because its seriously not worth it imo."

This sort of invalidates your argument, though I don't believe you intend it to. Those of us who are interested in playing the game want actual content to partake in. If you aren't interested in <insert grind> don't participate in it? This is not unlike the Ultimate argument. If it isn't content you want to do, don't. Trying to justify it's okay for there to be a complete lack of content longevity so you can play other games or because the grind wouldn't interest you... doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Nothing is stopping you from playing other games if say, another Exploratory zone were made or they brought over Mystic+ but tailored it to suit FFXIV. Not saying they should do either but rather spit-balling off the top of my head.

People upset with the lack of longevity want a reason to actually play FFXIV. That doesn't mean they need content to anchor them down for months on end or that if such content existed it suddenly forces those of you who dislike it to participate.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I am not expecting them to make a new Bozja and I had fun doing this content. The issue is, I have no reason to keep doing this content!!! That is honestly the biggest problem. They have the content so use it. They have means to create things for it, but they aren't.

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i totally agree, there are a lot of situations where i think they could (and should) better utilize old content, if for no other reason than to save on actual development time which can than be used elsewhere.


like i said, mostly wanted to use your argument as a starting point to illustrate why i dislike people using the "lazyness" or even "time/recources" argument because 9/10 it ends with "if the devs just worked harder/cared more we would have longer lasting content" and it's just not as easy as that.

i mean just coming back to the op the main complaint really is "it's over to fast", but outside of the length of the mainstory quest (which hasn't been meaningfully longer than what we got in 6.3 since at least stormblood) that has literally nothing to do with the kind of content that we got. like, they could have easily added some weekly reward (and with "added some weekly reward" i really mean "timegate getting the rewards allready there) to variant/criterion dungeons to keep them "interesting" for more time, the relic could take 5, 10 times longer while changing nothing but the number of tomestones required and if we come back to "island sanctuary is bad" than it still took time, like if they did not design island sanctuary at all than surely they could have added a quest or two extra per patch cycle instead (not really, different teams and all but let's just say they ditched the guys that designed island sanctuary and highered another 2 or 3 quest designers instead).

i'm totally on board with utilizing older content better, because yes that is one aspect where i often feel they do fall short. I just wished that the people that feel they have nothing to do would discuss the whole "no long term content" thing as an actual failure design choice wise and not as a result of the devs being shortstaffed/underfunded/overworked/lazy/uncaring/"pick your adjective of choice that makes the devs or square enix as an organization sound shitty" because that at most is tertiary to the actual situation.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I'm going to likely be in the minority when I say Bozja is a good example of what they did with their content. It was a zone not just focused on the relic but allowed us to grind for mounts, haircuts, glamour etc. They used those two zones to their advantage to keep content going for people. Now, I don't want them in the slightest to add some of the steps to this relic weapon, because it was honestly awful. What would be good is to keep us engage with what they have now in the game and what they currently have. Do I want to run Hells Lid a bunch of times? Anti tower? No, but they can have us still re engage with older content and make it fun. I don't want to say they're lazy, they are likely very busy and stretched thin. However even if I gotta do some quests in Island Sanctuary to get some specialized ore for a few hours, then okay, good. Island Sanctuary is now being utilitized. Oh, did Nanamo find a special liquid in criterion for us after clearing? Yes, wonderful people are reengaging this content too. Oh and there is a new hat that Viera and Hrothgars can wear as well. Wow here is a catalyst finally needed after clearing EO! Wonderful and I worked on my weapon there as well.

I am not expecting them to make a new Bozja and I had fun doing this content. The issue is, I have no reason to keep doing this content!!! That is honestly the biggest problem. They have the content so use it. They have means to create things for it, but they aren't.

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The problem with bozja is they put all of those incentives behind massive RNG grinds or 1% RNG drops.

Relic mats were more efficient OUTSIDE of bozja and still are to this day.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Man I remember when some fates tied to the ARR books would take forever to spawn. Like Giant Seps or Tower of Power. Course this was before we learned that zones could only have X amount of fates up at the same time. Even after we learned that they still made them appear more frequently. Course you're talking probably more about the maps part. I'm glad we don't have to track down a crafter that could craft you the Dispelling Arrow anymore.

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Anima, not Zodiac. Anima was Heavensward. There were definitely some bottlenecks in animas (umbrite, ugh) but there were some steps that people were showing the weapon around same-day.

The ARR books are still that bad with FATEs. I polished off the Zetas I didn't have recently and some of those FATESs when I was on the book steps still refused to spawn. So it was a lot of waiting around on that step. Alexandrite step is easier now since you have the daily quest for maps and you can buy them with poetics.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

Yes? And? You're still being forced to pay for a game they actively are telling you to take a break from. You're paying for a game you literally aren't playing.

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Thats.....on YOU though.
SE isnt making you do anything. YOU are the one that Authorized the Payment to go through, SE and Team have NO control over your money. YOU do.
So dont be mad at SE, be Mad at Yourself. You chose to keep paying the subscription, to the Higher Ups, that means you are happy...because you Keep Paying.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Thats.....on YOU though.
SE isnt making you do anything. YOU are the one that Authorized the Payment to go through, SE and Team have NO control over your money. YOU do.
So dont be mad at SE, be Mad at Yourself. You chose to keep paying the subscription, to the Higher Ups, that means you are happy...because you Keep Paying.

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Technically, if he has a house - then he has to keep a sub or else he loses it. No other game on the market does this on a sub base. Its a problem with the flawed limited house system that gives a tether to people who have par taken in it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I assume you meant to say I didn't rush things given the context of your response. For the sake of argument, and because people continuously belabor that point, there isn't content to rush. It simply lacks any sort of longevity. Hence my examples of the MSQ and 24 man which are one and done occurrences as are the side quests. It won't take you more than a couple days to complete the former two while the side quests are little more than an hour if I'm being very generous. Even if you did only one of each a day, all of them combined still wouldn't last a week. Moving to the relic step, all you need to do is complete every roulette for the day except MSQ and you'll have a relic every second day. This assumes you do literally nothing else that rewards Astronomy. Per Yoshida's own words, "several players like to collect 3-4" relics, this wouldn't last someone taking their time more than two weeks. Basically, unless you want to collect half the relics or more, you're done with everything 3.5 offers in just two weeks. And that is assuming a rather slow progression curve. Which goes on to illustrate the point myself and others have been making: people aren't rushing content. There just isn't anything to do.

Now I do want to address a particular comment you made: "I just lack the time and interest to do such a thing because its seriously not worth it imo."

This sort of invalidates your argument, though I don't believe you intend it to. Those of us who are interested in playing the game want actual content to partake in. If you aren't interested in <insert grind> don't participate in it? This is not unlike the Ultimate argument. If it isn't content you want to do, don't. Trying to justify it's okay for there to be a complete lack of content longevity so you can play other games or because the grind wouldn't interest you... doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Nothing is stopping you from playing other games if say, another Exploratory zone were made or they brought over Mystic+ but tailored it to suit FFXIV. Not saying they should do either but rather spit-balling off the top of my head.

People upset with the lack of longevity want a reason to actually play FFXIV. That doesn't mean they need content to anchor them down for months on end or that if such content existed it suddenly forces those of you who dislike it to participate.

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I fail with words but what I mean is grinds are never really fun. I'm motivated to do them because of the reward at the end which is the weapon. I like collecting them but the process of doing so as a grind is not something I would enjoy for longer than necessary. Add that with my time being at a premium, I dont want to force myself spamming roulettes or other activities have you in order to get it over with. So I use my time sparingly every day and because of that it helps prolong the acquirement for the weapon but at the benefit of me still enjoying my time with the game.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Thats.....on YOU though.
SE isnt making you do anything. YOU are the one that Authorized the Payment to go through, SE and Team have NO control over your money. YOU do.
So dont be mad at SE, be Mad at Yourself. You chose to keep paying the subscription, to the Higher Ups, that means you are happy...because you Keep Paying.

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This is incredibly disingenuous. Yes, it would be my choice. No, they DO in fact have control over it. If I'm paying for a sub while not actively playing its because I want to keep my house. That is an insanely flawed system, especially since you aren't refunded the cost of the house should you lose it. If you blew say 20 mil on a medium or god forbid bought a large, that's an insane amount of gil for them to hold you hostage over. I could almost forgive that though if houses weren't so scarce, the fact that you can lose your house while taking a break the company advocates for and then potentially not get another one for MONTHS or YEARS is absolute insanity.